HFS's car thread | Nearly-5000-miles update

[Roger the Horse]

I'd go with the keeping it original line. It seems the most financially viable and sensible, and if you kept the car for a few years you might find that a largely original model starts to pick up some value in among the sea of modified MX-5s out there.

Of course, if I was in your position I'd sell it and buy something more practical, particularly considering it sounds like you get to drive plenty of great cars in your job any way. Personally, ability to haul stuff about is one of the most valuable assets a car can have, but that might just be me.

 

[homeforsummer]

It's the reality of performance car ownership. You could buy something new on finance, and pay the penalty of interest and depreciation. I get the impression you already tried that (as have I to some extent) and found it wasn't for you. Alternatively you buy something second hand and sink money into it!

I took out a loan to buy the Panda, and it actually wasn't that bad. In fact, when I first started making payments on it, I was actually better off each month than I was with the Mazda - partly because the repayments were less than just general maintenance on my first MX-5 (which wasn't much each month, but every few months there'd be something expensive), and partly because it did 10mpg more.

It was only after I sold the Panda, before paying off the loan, that it became a problem. Paying for something you no longer own sucks. I got bored of that very fast and paid the rest of the loan off in a lump sum just so I didn't feel like I was being leeched dry.

If I did sell the Mazda, in the interim I'd be able to get by without a car of my own at all, thanks to the work thing. Essentially it'd allow me to save for a while - the only cost I'd be paying at all is fuel. No insurance, tax, maintenance etc. In fact, the more I think of that, the more sense it makes.

Of course, if I was in your position I'd sell it and buy something more practical, particularly considering it sounds like you get to drive plenty of great cars in your job any way. Personally, ability to haul stuff about is one of the most valuable assets a car can have, but that might just be me.

Practicality is of close-to-zero interest to me, mostly because I get to drive lots of different things. We have a few estate cars and an SUV on the fleet currently, and if I needed to haul more for any reason, I can pretty much ring up a press department and borrow a van.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Financially, what are your priorities? Clearing debt? Home ownership? Indulgence?

For me.personally, home ownership was a higher priority than fulfilling the motoring desire, and if it's a choice of either or then it's a decision you need to make.

 

[homeforsummer]

Financially, what are your priorities? Clearing debt? Home ownership? Indulgence?

Essentially, enjoying life while being just a little further in the black each month. I don't have any debt, other than student loan debt I guess, but nobody really counts that...

The way things are going with the Mazda, if I choose to keep "improving" it at any rate, I'll be merely breaking even - probably not even that, should any unforseen bills crop up.

The truly adult decision would be to sell both cars I own to significantly curtail my expenses. I'd have to do the sums to see at what rate I'd be able to save after such a thing. Much as I'd like to keep the Mazda, something I'll still be doing at least well into next year, the realistic cost of making the car I want it to be is too great.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Have you considered living in a caravan?

 

[homeforsummer]

Have you considered living in a caravan?

Briefly. A friend does it to great effect, but honestly the towns around here are barely places I'd want to live if I had the choice, so I wouldn't be expecting much from the neighbours in a static caravan park. Let's just say that even where I live currently, which isn't too bad, isn't the sort of place I'm entirely comfortable bringing back hundred-grand cars to now and then.

 

[Heldenzeit]

Just keep it close to OE unless you plan on tracking it a lot. Coilovers and sticky tires kinda ruin the experience for road use. A stock NA is just such a good car on its own.

 

[homeforsummer]

Just keep it close to OE unless you plan on tracking it a lot. Coilovers and sticky tires kinda ruin the experience for road use. A stock NA is just such a good car on its own.

Sticky tyres weren't really on the list (and if they were, I'm in the fortunate position of being able to get those without adding to my costs above...) but I'd heard good things about a couple of different coilovers for use on UK roads.

A basic NA is indeed a great car on its own, but I've been spoiled a little by some of the other cars I get to drive. There are some things you take for granted in modern cars - particularly chassis stiffness - that's significantly lacking in the Eunos!

And while I'm not bothered about adding significant performance to the car, it'd be nice if the top-end had the same kind of brio as the mid-range - I don't recall it being a thing with my last MX-5, but I'd driven far fewer fast cars at that point - but the engine effectively feels all done by maybe 5500rpm, which is frustrating when the red line is at 7250.

Better breathing would probably help, changes to timing, other small bits and bobs, but by the time I've stiffened the car and tweaked the engine then you're already thinking about other things... and then I've got an idea in my head of how I want the car to look, etc. I'd love to create my vision of the perfect Miata but the cost involved is just too off-putting when there are cars out there I could buy and happily keep as-is.

Again, no intentions of selling it just yet, and I still think MX-5s are fantastic cars (I'm really growing to like the ND on our fleet), but I do wonder whether I'm simply growing out of them.

 

[Heldenzeit]

Chassis stiffeners like Frog Arms (or Garagestar's version) are a good bang for the buck. I feel the shock brace I have also helped the cowl shake too. A 4 point roll bar helps the most for stiffness.

 

[homeforsummer]

Chassis stiffeners like Frog Arms (or Garagestar's version) are a good bang for the buck. I feel the shock brace I have also helped the cowl shake too. A 4 point roll bar helps the most for stiffness.

By the roll bar I presume you mean the behind-the-seats deal, rather than anything extending forwards? Been considering one of those.

Also, I wasn't aware Garagestar did fender braces. May have to investigate those. And a shock brace is already on the menu, partly because my car should have had one out of the factory and it's missing for some reason. Also considering combining it with a brake master cylinder brace, as I've heard good things about those.

Of course, the more I think "that sounds great" is exactly what's got me into this line of thinking in the first place!

 

[Hayden]

I took out a loan to buy the Panda, and it actually wasn't that bad. In fact, when I first started making payments on it, I was actually better off each month than I was with the Mazda - partly because the repayments were less than just general maintenance on my first MX-5 (which wasn't much each month, but every few months there'd be something expensive), and partly because it did 10mpg more.

The reason I decided to buy a new car a couple years back was down to this very reason. My 300zx was costing me a fortune and the maths told me I'd be better off buying a demonstrator VW polo and keeping the Z for weekends. Even with the extra costs of having two cars, I worked out that It'd take just 5 years for the VW to "pay for itself" in money saved. Then I passed a Toyota dealership on the way to the VW one and forgot about the maths . In retrospect, with the current emissions scandal, i'm glad I did!

If I was in your position, where I constantly had brand new, really nice cars at my disposal, I probably wouldn't even bother having one of my own. You're in a really unique spot and I think the smarter decision long term would be taking it as an opportunity to save. I'd sell both cars, live on a shoestring and save as long and as much as possible to get to where you want to be. Be that signing up for a house or maybe even getting that Lotus!


It's your decision mate, and I don't envy you for having to make it. I do envy you for having an awesome job, but that's beside the point

 

[homeforsummer]

Been feeling more positive about my car-owning situation recently. I've still not quite decided what to do, and I suspect I may still come to a point where I should do without a car altogether, but in the meantime I'm going to see where the Mazda takes me.

On a related note, I've decided to turn around one of my bad habits. Given that the impromptu blackout instrument panel is now behaving more like a Christmas tree, with various sections switching on and off with regularity, I decided to see whether any proper lighting companies did suitable LED replacement bulbs.

As it turns out, Osram does. Of course, they're a lot more expensive than the eBay-quality bulbs I originally bought, but on the plus side, they look like this:

On the left, obviously. Brighter by far, a warmer light, and a much better fit.

The instrument lights are the same bulb type as the sightlights, so because the sidelights are now so brilliant (literally), I'm going to order a bunch more and replace every other 501 bulb in the car with them. And indeed, any other Osram LED I can get hold of, for the dashboard, interior lights, everything.

 

[Crash]

Not a knock on you, but I don't really understand buying cheap no-name eBay knockoff parts for parts/stuff that matters in the operation of the car. I see this a lot with cheap ass E30 owners that will do the most ghetto fix and then complain about how their car runs and looks like crap. I've always found that just buying quality (and yeah, more expensive) replacement parts and doing it right the first time around is worth it unless the person is very strapped on cash. I've found that you get what you pay for.

Glad the lights are going to work out for you though.

 

[homeforsummer]

Not a knock on you, but I don't really understand buying cheap no-name eBay knockoff parts for parts/stuff that matters in the operation of the car. I see this a lot with cheap ass E30 owners that will do the most ghetto fix and then complain about how their car runs and looks like crap. I've always found that just buying quality (and yeah, more expensive) replacement parts and doing it right the first time around is worth it unless the person is very strapped on cash. I've found that you get what you pay for.

Glad the lights are going to work out for you though.

To be fair to myself, I didn't really know what to expect with the LEDs. I didn't deliberately choose cheap ones as such - it's just that there were thousands of different options all around the same price, and they drowned out the existence of decent ones.

LEDs are one of those things where you expect a general level of quality since they're so simple. Only as it turns out, some are still better than others. Lesson learned.

Also, while I've been known to make stupid cheap purchases before that have turned out to be crap (shoes, belts, electric shavers, game pads), I actually don't do that with car parts generally. I'm quite picky about upgrading anything that wears out with something even better.

 

[Heldenzeit]

I've been happy with these guys lately. Bought a bunch of bulbs for my LS400.

http://www.diodedynamics.com/store/

 

[homeforsummer]

MUCH SUCCESS​

The MoT, for those living outside the UK, is an annual test in which a car's roadworthiness is assessed. The tester - usually just a local garage - measures emissions, checks the condition and operation of things like lights, brakes etc, and ensures that if there's rust, it's not in anywhere that might weaken the car's structure dangerously.

It's not hugely strict, but it is strict enough to ensure that most cars on UK roads aren't complete deathtraps. And for the sake of the £40-odd that you have to pay each year, at the very least it's a reasonable way of making a list of what you might need to change over the coming year.

Anyway, both of my vehicles have passed it. The Insight without any advisory remarks - a clean bill of health, in other words, and today, the Mazda passed with just a few advisories. The front metal brake pipes are showing some surface corrosion (no biggie), the handbrake needs a fair yank to hold the car on an incline (of which I was aware, but everywhere I park it is flat) and there's some rust around the kick-plate when you get in the car, of which I was also aware.

Either way, it's not bad at all for cars that are 15 and 24 years old respectively. All cars in the UK require an MoT once they pass 3 years old, and it's not unknown for cars to fail on something after that amount of time - not typically rust, but often warning lights, headlights, wipers, that kind of thing. I'm taking it as a sign that a) you really can trust a Japanese car not to cause much trouble and b) that basic maintenance and replacing consumables is very much beneficial for a car's long term health and operation.

Anyway, for now, have a picture of the Mazda that I took a few months back.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Brake pipe corrosion and loose handbrake are things I'd let slip by if I was checking the history of a car.

But when you see "car well maintained, never wanted for anything" then see it went into the last MOT with 2 bald tyres, a blown bulb and warn pads you do start to question it...

Do you have the emissions print out? Hear emissions failures are becoming more common these days on the MX5. How does the tester react when they see the insight?

 

[INEEDNAWZZZ]

Do you have the emissions print out? Hear emissions failures are becoming more common these days on the MX5.

From what I understand, grey imports that were manufactured before 1995 don't have to comply with regular emissions standards. Whilst a standard UK spec MX-5 of the same age would possibly get pulled up, this one (assuming the garage is reputable) would be exempt.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

How does the tester react when they see the insight?

I collected the Insight from its MOT, and the guys in the garage were really interested in it (one of them had never even seen one before). They liked the fact that A) it was a bit quirky, and B) that as an eco car, it's becoming ever-more relevant as a concept. I don't think they worded it quite so succinctly, but that was the gist of it.

As you'd imagine, it breezed through the emissions tests. I would like to point out, however, that although when my 205 was tested in December it produced something like 10x the Insight's CO2 levels (it still comfortably passed, mind) the Pug emitted fewer hydrocarbons.

 

[homeforsummer]

Do you have the emissions print out? Hear emissions failures are becoming more common these days on the MX5. How does the tester react when they see the insight?

From what I understand, grey imports that were manufactured before 1995 don't have to comply with regular emissions standards. Whilst a standard UK spec MX-5 of the same age would possibly get pulled up, this one (assuming the garage is reputable) would be exempt.

Mine was booked for the test as an MX-5, and I assume it was tested as a UK car.

Printout wasn't the clearest, but these are what I can see:

Fast idle
CO: 0.23% (limit: 0.30%)
HC: 37ppm (limit: 1200ppm)

Natural idle
CO: 0.31% (limit: 0.50%)

So was a fairly comfortable pass in each. Incidentally, the CO on fast idle was identical to last year's MOT, and hydrocarbons, at 37ppm, were lower than last year's 74ppm - something I assume is due to the comprehensive service I had a few months ago.

@GTP_Ingram I'm guessing that category is CO (carbon monoxide), rather than CO2? I don't think CO2 emissions are tested in an MOT. Interesting on the hydrocarbons though, wonder why that's the case?

 

[homeforsummer]

Byebrid​

Sold the Insight today. A process that took a lot longer than intended and hit a few snags along the way, but it needed to go. Given the choice, I'd still own it - and still commute in it - but with a single-car garage at my place down south, and with no desire to continue paying insurance and tax on a car I no longer use, there was little point me keeping it.

The final numbers? Owned it two years, covered around 14,000 miles in it myself (that was in just the first year, and doesn't count whatever @GTP_Ingram added to that), averaged just under 500 miles from every 40-litre tank (594 miles at the longest), and averaged 71.6mpg in my own driving (59.7mpg US).

Anyway, it seems easiest to sum up the ownership experience in likes and dislikes. So here we go:

Likes

• Styling. It's an acquired taste I know, but I've liked the Insight since it was first launched in 1999 and that hasn't changed. It's dated a little, but it nails the futuristic CRX vibe Honda was going for. It's better in the metal too - properly compact, just like a CRX (in terms of dimensions, it's very similar to my Mk1 MX-5).
• Interior. Economy aside, probably the car's best aspect. Only two seats, but that never bothered me. But those two seats were comfortable even after an entire day at the wheel. You sit low, legs outstretched like a sports car, so the vibe is right. The scuttle is low, like all older Hondas, so there's a great view out. The interior design is simple, brilliantly ergonomic, and looks great - here's a refresher:

• Reliability. A two-year test is hardly the longest time, but nothing went wrong in my ownership. Bit of a blip towards the end with the battery - and I'll get onto that further down - but I used it hard, often and nothing even hinted at going wrong. It also passed two MoTs without a single advisory.
• Mechanical intrigue. Even on the days I didn't enjoy driving it, I still got a kick from the concept of the car. I've said before that I'd rather own an interesting car than an objectively good one, and the Insight fulfilled that role - I enjoyed ownership whether I was stuck in traffic or blasting up the motorway at 2am, because it's an interesting car. And it does drive well too - it's nimble, has a fantastic gearbox, and it's incredibly quiet even when you're heading for the red line.
• Practising what I preach. Before I moved to my current job, I'd been writing about the world of green cars for four years paid, and another couple before that in my own blog. But I'd not owned a "green" car. Now I have, and it's great for challenging misconceptions. Hybrids can be fun. They can certainly be economical. Do the batteries go? Eventually, but the ones in mine had lasted 15+ years. Given that in a single year I saved about £1000 in fuel compared to a car like the MX-5. Over 15 years, a saving like that would pay for a new battery pack several times over - and obviously, nobody who has owned that car yet has had to make that purchase anyway.

Dislikes

• Overall performance. Let me clarify - does the Insight have enough performance? For most things, yes. It can be coerced into going quickly enough (0-60 is something like 12 seconds, top speed is enough over 100mph not to have gone there) and it'll happily cruise at 70-80 on the motorway. But it does take a fair bit of effort to get to those speeds, and since driving it hard goes against the ethos of the car, that can be frustrating. A good example is when driving on rural roads. With no traffic around, it's easy enough to make progress by carrying momentum, but any momentum you lose in a slow-ish car is hard to get back. It seems silly to complain about people slowing you down when you're driving economically, but most of being economical is slowing down as little as possible...
• The spectre of battery replacement. Again, I find it difficult to outright complain about the cost of battery replacement, given the savings through ownership, but it was actually fairly hard to relax while I owned the car, simply because there was always the potential for a big bill. Whoever bought it brand new 15 years ago probably couldn't have cared less, but it's certainly something to consider for any hybrid bought ten years down the line.

And that's really it for dislikes. It's been a great car and a really difficult one to pick fault with. It did exactly what I needed of it. The Insight is now a box I can tick off from all the cars I've ever wanted to own.

What's next? Nothing in the short term. But owning the Honda has made me want to separate any future purchases into two categories - fun stuff, and economical stuff. I do get a buzz from owning stuff that's high-tech or uses very little fuel.

And while I have the MX-5, any other fun stuff is out of the question. When it comes to economical stuff, there are a few itches I still want to scratch: Audi A2, Smart Fortwo cdi, some kind of boxy kei car. Also keeping a beady eye on the price of used Mitsubishi i-MiEVs and other cheap electric cars - with my current commute, an EV would actually suit me perfectly.

 

[homeforsummer]

More musing​

Been thinking about the MX-5's future again today, albeit not in as negative a light as last time.

For a start, had a great drive in it today. Well, nothing that special in reality, just 40-odd miles around the local area, but it was just quite good fun. One of my motives for buying the car was that I didn't want too much grip, I want to be able to feel the car working hard at normal speeds. Today's drive was like that. It was moving about underneath me, bit of corrective lock needed now and then, that kind of thing. Since the service, with the sharper response, healthy clutch and some new oil in the diff the car feels in rude health and it's a pleasure to drive as a result.

Regardless, I'm still wondering whether in the next year or so it'll be time to move on to something new. What that is yet I'm not sure, but there are a few ideas swirling around. Wouldn't normally discuss these as I don't want to turn the thread into a "what should I buy?", but a few ideas are stronger than others.

The first is a classic Mini. Had them in mind since driving a neat example a few summers ago. Would serve effectively the same purpose as the Mazda. I like that it's effectively a classic car, and looks like one, but has few dynamic compromises next to modern ones - they still have fantastic steering and grip, and you can use so much more of the road. I'd also kinda like to buy one before even bog-standard ones climb above what I'm willing to pay for something not very special.

The next is a car I've considered a few times before, the Honda Prelude. May sound like a weird choice after the Mazda, but since owning the Insight I've grown to appreciate Honda's engineering more. I also like the styling (I'd be happy with any of the gens 2-5), the reliability, the extra performance, and the relative practicality over the Mazda. Given what I get to drive in my day job, I'm also not too worried about driving an out-and-out sports car - something I can do long distances in with a bit of comfort and style is quite appealing. That, and they're getting rare to see, and I do like owning cars you don't see every day.

The third option is one of these:

Drove that particular example last year. And ever since, I've had a sneaking suspicion that I'd enjoy driving it more than the Mazda. It's a bit faster, and the engine is a bit more eager. The driving position is better. It's structurally stiffer, and feels a bit pointier as there's less weight up front. Rather than modifying the Mazda to make it better, I could buy one of these and have a better starting point in the first place. Hmm.

Will need more thought. And next month, the Mazda is getting a new exhaust, so there are still plans for it for the foreseeable future. But as I suggested further up the page, I'm viewing MX-5s from a different perspective these days. What I want from a car is different now to how it was when I bought my first, and maybe I now need to look for something different.

 

[niky]

The Classic Mini bug is a strong one... sadly, like you, I don't see myself paying the ridiculously inflated prices good ones go for...

 

[homeforsummer]

The Classic Mini bug is a strong one... sadly, like you, I don't see myself paying the ridiculously inflated prices good ones go for...

My aim would be something from the 80s-early 90s, which are still reasonably priced. But even then, they're more expensive than a car of that size and performance should really be...

 

[niky]

My aim would be something from the 80s-early 90s, which are still reasonably priced. But even then, they're more expensive than a car of that size and performance should really be...

Pretty much.

If only there was a body kit that fit a cheaper Daewoo or Suzuki...

 

[homeforsummer]

Pretty much.

If only there was a body kit that fit a cheaper Daewoo or Suzuki...

If either company had ever made a car that remotely drove like a Mini that'd definitely be a useful option, but the last few times I've driven Minis it's made me depressed that no modern small car has anything like the responses or sensation of speed. I can understand a need to grow in size and weight for practicality and safety reasons, but it must be possible to engineer something like an Up or Peugeot 108 or Celerio to have Mini-like roadholding or steering feel/response. Of course, not building everything super tall and narrow in relation to its length would help.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get an old warm/hot hatch and make it a Auto Test/Track car? Well, cheaper in the short term.

 

[Clark]

What about a Fiat 126?

 

[homeforsummer]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get an old warm/hot hatch and make it a Auto Test/Track car? Well, cheaper in the short term.

Probably, but then cheapness isn't really the goal here. That and hot hatches bore the crap out of me. Great to drive in the right situation, but the rest of the time they feel like dull regular hatchbacks and I much prefer something that feels special regardless of how I'm driving it. Classics do, and two-seat open-topped cars do too.

I should also note that I don't want a car too similar to the long-termer I've been given since my last update in this thread, our Kia Proceed GT.

 

[Clark]

I've never driven one more than 500 yards but are S2000s like a faster MX5? The engine seems like one of the few modern four pots I'd like as much an inline/flat six and I've wanted one at times but insurance has always been loads on them for me when I've looked.