HFS's Cars

[a112]

If you go with Alfa,just don't choose boxer engine.
My friend had it,and had to replace one of the heads including all gaskets after 70k km.
Also,another friend has 1300cc boxer (90hp) at the moment,and MAF sensor is giving him a headache all the time,the car is idling from 800 to 3000 rpm.
The TS engines are good though.

 

[homeforsummer]

The boxers were offered in pre-1997 cars and the post-1997 ones are already so cheap that I'd have no reason to go for a boxer-engined one. Plus, the TS engines sound fantastic and perform very well indeed.

One good thing about the car I drove yesterday was that the service history was fairly good, and one of the more recent receipts was for a cambelt change, always a concern as mileages start to creep higher.

 

[Stotty]

Have to say, my experience of Alfa ownership was not a positive one... I had a 156 2.0 Selespeed from new (2002-2005) and it was a complete POS. Over 60k miles it had a complete new engine at 24k miles (oil pump failed) and a top end rebuild 15k later after the head gasket went. It also had a new ECU and more gearboxes than I can remember. Oh, and the clock drained the battery if you left it standing for more than 3 days. And to cap it off, the dealers I dealt with were just plain rubbish.

I always thought it looked & sounded lovely though, and that it drove nicely (when it was actually on the road)... until I drove my brothers 2.0lx Mondeo and realised that the Mondeo had similar performance but was bigger, better built and rode and handled soooo much better.

Don't be fooled by the 2 turns lock to lock steering either... the reason it's 2 turns is because it has no steering lock and a 3 point turn quickly becomes a 5 point turn!

 

[homeforsummer]

I found out about the steering lock when I reverse parked the car back in the dealer's lot, though it's not a huge car so the turning circle certainly wasn't terrible by the standards of some other cars I've driven. On balance, I could certainly put up with limited lock for the extra fun in the corners!

As for reliability issues, a few things. It does sound like you had a particular dud there - I know Alfas aren't great on reliability but that one sounds pretty bad - but then we've had Renaults before that have been equally terrible. At the same time, we had a Renault that did well over 90k miles in our ownership without a single problem, and likewise a guy my dad works with has a 156 on well over 100k miles which again has been perfectly reliable. A guy on another forum I use is lucky enough to own a large number of cars and bikes (all Italian, Alfas, Maseratis, Fiats, Ducatis etc) and although he is particularly religious with maintenance, he again reports no problems. Incidentally though, I'd never get a Selespeed because their problems are very well known indeed.

The other thing is that I don't really do very many miles - maybe 6k a year, though reasonably regular journeys which is healthy for the car. I consider myself pretty careful too - I always keep on top of consumables and I always let my car warm up before I extend it in any way.

The last thing is that I'm still fairly unlikely to buy one anyway - much as it's very tempting, I'm currently at a stage where I do value reliability and longevity quite highly, so as much as I'd like an Alfa sitting outside the house, I'm still more likely to end up with a BMW/Honda/Mazda. There is something intangible about Alfas though - which is why for all it's potential to go wrong, I'd never, ever choose a Mondeo over an Alfa, however good a car it is!

 

[homeforsummer]

Mitsubishi FTO GR Sport V6

I'd sort of dismissed the idea of an FTO, and after today I'm still not totally sold on it, even when this one was for sale at only £1299. It's certainly a lot of car for the money (the GR model is the non-MIVECS 170bhp V6, the Sport pack basically gives it loads of bits and pieces from the GPX, such as the wheels, body kit etc). This one was the tiptronic auto too, which is one of the few older cars I'd consider as an auto as it offers a suitable level of driver control.

Test drive was a bit short and not particularly useful - just a drive up and down a road with a roundabout at the bottom, lasted ten minutes max. Couldn't even give it some beans as on the exit of the roundabout there was a Police car . Engine seemed nice, sounded great, steering pulled to the left slightly (exactly the same as the MX-5 I drove a while ago) but generally it was quite pleasant.

The thing that worries me about getting something too flash, like the FTO, is that in my budget you're pushing your luck a bit with conditon. It's likely led a pretty hard life - panel gaps didn't look uniform all around the car, the seats were a bit "patchwork" (though comfortable and supportive) and there were a few odd knocking noises and rattles coming from mechanical bits. If you had say, £3k to spend on an FTO, this one would be a good fixer-upper, but as it is I'm looking for something that has very few defects for my £1500 so this car is a good example of not setting my sights too high. Several of the other cars I've driven so far have offered the promise of a longer life and a history of likely more caring owners.

Still, I'm glad I've got to drive one, and it's definitely the sort of car I'd be interested in later down the line when I'm in a better position financially.

 

[Joey D]

But you could paint it bright green and make it the UK version of the Fast and Furious Eclipse

On a serious note though a car like that seems like it would get you into trouble and be noticed by the police. It's a sports car and it's bright red, that's a cop magnet, at least here in the US. Plus that car doesn't look terribly practical either. I can't imagine it fits a lot of stuff based on how it looks from the outside. If you are going to get an impractical car you might as well go full stop and get the Miata...err MX-5.

And I would suspect you are right, that car probably has lived a hard life.

Oh and I tried to use the number plate to figure this out but I failed, what year is it?

 

[homeforsummer]

It's a 1995 car. Not sure when it was imported (and it is an import, virtually all FTOs are as they only sold a handful through official dealerships).

As for practicality, it certainly isn't up there with the 3-series and Civics I've driven, but it's not terrible. With the driver's seat in the position I have it, I tried sitting in the back and it's entirely possible without being too contorted, and the boot is of a decent size with a bit of a funny-shaped opening. The driving position was pretty good and visibility was decent too, despite the rear spoiler.

 

[YSSMAN]

Is it just me, or does it look like those body pannels fit completely wrong? Both the bonnet and the boot look terrible.

Alfa = WIN

That is all.

 

[homeforsummer]

Is it just me, or does it look like those body pannels fit completely wrong? Both the bonnet and the boot look terrible.

They did look a bit iffy, as mentioned. But they've never looked perfect judging by pics I've seen.

Alfa = WIN

That is all.

I've been looking around for a GTV in my price range. That might even be more WIN. If I find one I'll report back here. Maybe the driving position will be less ape-like than the 146...

 

[Joey D]

If the FTO is an import how easy is it to find some place to have the car worked on if something goes wrong? I know here in the US many imported car owners have a difficult time trying to find someone to work on their vehicles or even get parts if they want to do it themselves.

 

[TheCracker]

A friend of mine had an imported FTO a while back which was a complete POS. In the 18 months he had it, it spent more time in the garage or waiting to be fixed than it did on the road. The handling and ride were awful, but that was probably as much down to it being slightly modified with bigger wheels and a lowered ride height than standard. It's really over-shadowed any rational opinion i should have on the car.

There are seemingly plenty of 2.0 GTV's around for well under £2k at the moment, i'm really tempted to get one as a second car/car for the Mrs (when she gets around to taking her test again ) They look great/different and mostly have a nice leather interior, for a car in that price range. I know Alfas have a bad reputation for reliability, but both my father and step brother had Alfa 156's in the past and neither had any issues with them. Also, when you are buying a car in this age, milage and price range most of the problems that are going to crop up will have probably been sorted by now.

One of the other cars (the other being a Mk1 MX-5) that i'm casually looking into is the Clio Williams. Have you thought about one of those? High-milage examples are starting to drop into your price range now. Being a modern classic, the ones that survive have usually been well looked after.

 

[homeforsummer]

If the FTO is an import how easy is it to find some place to have the car worked on if something goes wrong? I know here in the US many imported car owners have a difficult time trying to find someone to work on their vehicles or even get parts if they want to do it themselves.

As far as I'm aware, Mitsubishi are pretty good at getting hold of bits for them - they were obliged to be for a while as they sold them through main dealers and offered 3-year warranties on them. As for how the situation is now, I'm not sure, and until The Cracker's account of his friend's car below I'd only heard good things about them!

A friend of mine had an imported FTO a while back which was a complete POS. In the 18 months he had it, it spent more time in the garage or waiting to be fixed than it did on the road. The handling and ride were awful, but that was probably as much down to it being slightly modified with bigger wheels and a lowered ride height than standard. It's really over-shadowed any rational opinion i should have on the car.

That's a shame. It sounds like that car was a bit of a dud! As above I'd always believed that on reliability at least they were fairly sound, and certainly on handling, though as you say that could be down to the modifications. This one was completely standard, and the ride at least seemed fine - I didn't notice it being bad, so I'm assuming it was fine.

There are seemingly plenty of 2.0 GTV's around for well under £2k at the moment, i'm really tempted to get one as a second car/car for the Mrs (when she gets around to taking her test again ) They look great/different and mostly have a nice leather interior, for a car in that price range. I know Alfas have a bad reputation for reliability, but both my father and step brother had Alfa 156's in the past and neither had any issues with them. Also, when you are buying a car in this age, milage and price range most of the problems that are going to crop up will have probably been sorted by now.

It's amazing how cheap Alfas in general are, but especially GTVs for what you get. If I find one for sale nearby I'll have a go, and I'd like to try a 156 too as I've always thought they looked absolutely stunning.

One of the other cars (the other being a Mk1 MX-5) that i'm casually looking into is the Clio Williams. Have you thought about one of those? High-milage examples are starting to drop into your price range now. Being a modern classic, the ones that survive have usually been well looked after.

The Williams hadn't really crossed my mind actually, because I'd been veering away from proper hot hatches. One, because they're another sort of car that will have led a very hard life, and two because I don't think my insurance budget really stretches to them. Even the tardy Golf mk3 GTI would set me back £450 on insurance which is disproportionate to it's performance compared to something like the BMW 318tis that I've driven which can be insured for little more than £300. I'm still technically considered a young driver until I reach 25 (only a year to go!) and insurance companies either run a mile or take the Michael with their premiums on anything with a GTI/Williams/RSI/GT/Rallye/etc badge.

Not that I don't like the Williams, quite the opposite - ever since it was released I've thought they were brilliant - but a 10+ year old Renault hot hatch that'll cost me a bomb to insure and is built worse than my Fiesta isn't the most sound investment for someone who wants a car that could realistically last another 5+ years...

 

[YSSMAN]

I've been looking around for a GTV in my price range. That might even be more WIN.

A GTV Twin Spark would be awesome, that's for sure.

Which also reminds me: This discussion has me looking for old Alfas just for the heck of it. We seem to have a lot of 164s available in the US, outside of the "traditional" Spyder. Both would be an interesting purchase, that is, assuming that you could find parts.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Avoid the Williams if you have limited budget to fix/run it. Fun cars, but costs a fair bit to keep them in good shape.

Get a classic! Low-power RWD fun! (In an ideal world)

 

[Jim Prower]

Yes and no...An old car needs lots of tweaking. They're good weekend cars, but not really great dailies. The older, and the faster, the more tweaking. (and probably lots of fixing at the start, because the previous owner(s) failed to tweak as much as they should.)

 

[Famine]

The FTO may be an import, but they were also officially sold in the UK - so finding parts won't be an issue.

Clio Williams. Two words: Scene tax.

 

[benzoboy]

I know I'm probably gonna get shot down in flames for this, but how about:

It's a Subaru Impreza 2.0 Sport 4WD. The poor man's WRX, basically. You can get it in 2WD too, if you prefer that.

This doesn't look bad.

 

[homeforsummer]

A GTV Twin Spark would be awesome, that's for sure.

Which also reminds me: This discussion has me looking for old Alfas just for the heck of it. We seem to have a lot of 164s available in the US, outside of the "traditional" Spyder. Both would be an interesting purchase, that is, assuming that you could find parts.

Alfa parts for anything are easy to come by in the UK and Europe in general. Probably not so much in the States, but then again there's no worldwide shortage of parts for Alfas, thanks to many of the cars having similarities with Fiats. The 146 I posted earlier for example was based on the rather more humble Fiat Tipo... and indeed I think the GTV and 155 were too, and I'm sure the 156 is pretty much a development of the 155 chassis... and the 147 and GT were based on the 156... so this:

...is essentially based on this (if you squint a bit):

Most 90s-early 00s Alfas used the same Twin Spark engines too. As far as backup goes they're a fairly safe bet!

Get a classic! Low-power RWD fun! (In an ideal world)

Yes and no...An old car needs lots of tweaking. They're good weekend cars, but not really great dailies. The older, and the faster, the more tweaking. (and probably lots of fixing at the start, because the previous owner(s) failed to tweak as much as they should.)

As above. Classics are appealing, but not really suitable as daily drivers for long periods of time. Even the MGB GT, considered perhaps the most useable classic of all, is still an old British sports car that can break down a lot and turn into a pile of brown dust without a lot of care.

Clio Williams. Two words: Scene tax.

I don't follow you. Is this a clever way of saying it'd get nicked, or something?

I know I'm probably gonna get shot down in flames for this, but how about... Subaru Impreza 2.0 Sport 4WD

No shooting coming from me. I have actually considered that exact type of Impreza, and if I find a decent one nearby I might have a go in it just to see what it's like. Having said that, it's not in with much of a chance against the current front-running BMW Compacts which do offer me the best compromise of everything I want. The Impreza is ugly in the practical 5-door version, and uneconomical in any variant. It's a good suggestion though and I'll try and seek one out to report back 👍

 

[Sniffs]

*chuckle* all this Alpha talk remind me of a couple goodies I wsaw while car hunting myself...and they were both duds!

I went to the same mini-dealership a cousin went to for an "i'm impressed with" 97 cherokee sport...sitting just off the building was an Alpha...a 2.5GT from what I could read off the tag. 70's mabey? at the other end of the regular line...a friggin LR Freelander...for 8000 bucks?

 

[homeforsummer]

Probably a GTV6. They came with a 2.5 V6 engine.

And it's Alfa

 

[niky]

If you do get an FTO, for heaven's sakes... don't get the INVECS... that thing utterly stifles the engine.

 

[slidesquad#1]

Anecdotal evidence here says that the FTO should be solid unless it's been abused.

From the very limited experience I have around Alfa's, they seem to always have SOMETHING wrong with them. It might not be anything remotely important etc., but I don't think I've ever been around one where everything works. Probably not the best car for your requirements now. I'm not saying they're all lemons, but they might be prone to nickel and diming you, possibly more than your other choices (Probably).

How much would a plain vanilla Lancer set you back? They look alright (personally), appear to be quite reliable, and aren't hopelessly slow (well they're pretty bad but should be a step up from the Fiesta). Can you even get them or are you guys stuck with the blobbier Carisma?
Possibly the Galant as well, the newer ones are quite tidy, and fairly cheap over here. May be different for you guys.

 

[homeforsummer]

If you do get an FTO, for heaven's sakes... don't get the INVECS... that thing utterly stifles the engine.

INVECS is the auto transmission, right? It's not something I'd be too worried about really. Mainly because the models we can buy here in the UK - the V6s (we do get the occasional 1.8 I4 but very, very rarely) - are much, much more powerful than what I'm used to anyway. I was thinking about it last night - the GR, which isn't even the most powerful version, has 170bhp which is 110bhp more than my Fiesta! I'm not really going to notice if the auto is a little slower than the manual, and the manual mode on the box seems to be quite good anyway, much quicker to select gears than other autos with that sort of function I've been in.

How much would a plain vanilla Lancer set you back? They look alright (personally), appear to be quite reliable, and aren't hopelessly slow (well they're pretty bad but should be a step up from the Fiesta). Can you even get them or are you guys stuck with the blobbier Carisma?
Possibly the Galant as well, the newer ones are quite tidy, and fairly cheap over here. May be different for you guys.

Good point on the Alfas. A car I get might be perfectly reliable, but it's still more likely to have little niggling faults than something like a Honda or a BMW.

As for the Lancer idea...

Above: 4th gen Lancer, 5th gen Lancer, Carisma, 7th gen Lancer, 8th gen Lancer, Galant

Right. As I'm not sure exactly which model you refer to, there's the whole lot

The 4th gen above, based on the Colt, is too old by now and I don't like them anyway. So it's out. The 5th gen, the one they based the Evo, Evo II and Evo III on, was never sold here. Instead, Mitsubishi were "kind" enough to give Europe the Carisma instead.

We were stuck with the Carisma until 2004. To be fair on it, the very last revision we got of the car looked half decent (as in the pic above) and there are a good few about on nice factory alloys and in nice colours, and are also in my price range. Only trouble is, they're just on the wrong side of uninteresting for me, so they're out too. Plus, a friend has just got one so it's a no-no.

We then got the 7th gen Lancer, which is the one the Evo VII and onwards were based on. I quite like the look of them again again I'm sure it'd be reliable and even decent to drive, but these ones are still outside my price range (around double my £1500 budget). Obviously the 8th gen are too expensive also, but they look fantastic.

As for the Galant, it's another car I considered momentarily. They're very cheap, they look great (I don't think it's a coincidence the current Lancer looks very much like this shape of Galant), and they should be reliable and comfortable. The trouble is, they're bigger than I'd like, and if I had to get a bigger car I'd be wanting a diesel really as fuel economy is an important factor unless a car really does have a USP to shout about. And I don't think Mitsubishi ever imported a diesel Galant to the UK. Mainland Europe got some but few came here. This leaves us with the 2.0 and 2.4 petrol 4cyl models, a 2.5 V6, and the VR4 versions. The former three will end up being a bit thirsty and the VR4 would kill me on insurance, I suspect.

If I find a 2.0 I may give it a try though. 9.9 to 60 and 130mph is more than enough performance for me.

 

[slidesquad#1]

And of course I was talking about the 6th gen, the one my car's based on. I think they look pretty sharp. But not relevant because you never got them. Think Evo 4 without the spoilers and fancy body kit.

I hear ya about the Galant being too big. Never really had a problem with their size, but then again I have a Diamante for my everyday beater. The VR4's are pretty fun though. And I don't think I've EVER seen a diesel one, so no idea what those would be like.

And since I'm randomly suggesting cars I think you might like, did you guys get the N14 Pulsar, or some derivative? A GTI would seem like it might meet your needs, though they do have a bit of a following amongst the doof doof brigade who can't quite stretch to the GTI-R. Maybe the N15's too, if the 14's are too old.

 

[eiriksmil]

The 4th gen above, based on the Colt, is too old by now and I don't like them anyway. So it's out. The 5th gen, the one they based the Evo, Evo II and Evo III on, was never sold here. Instead, Mitsubishi were "kind" enough to give Europe the Carisma instead.

The 5th gen was sold in England, yes.. And on the 4th gen, you're not really missing out on a lot by not buying one. The driving position must be the worst I've ever experienced, everything's differently angled

 

[Famine]

I don't follow you. Is this a clever way of saying it'd get nicked, or something?

Heh, not really (but yes, it would).

"Scene tax" applies to cars which people of a certain age think are great and desirable, artificially bumping up the prices. Like Skylines - they command a premium over similar-performing vehicles because they're Skylines (even the weak-ass models - because they're "Skylines").

The Clio Williams was a great little car in its day. But you can go faster, stop better and corner quicker, safely, all for less in, say, a Clio 172. The 172 doesn't yet attract a scene tax, but the Clio Williams certainly does and, while the rose-tinteds say "brilliant car!" (and it was), it's not worth the money they sell for.


The Impreza attracts a different set of problems. To all intents and purposes, they look and sound like the WRX/Impreza Turbo (generation dependant). Which means that they're intensely desirable right up until the moment the little TWOCer turns out of the end of your road. Whereupon he realises it's a Sport, fannies about in it for 30 minutes with his mates and then torches it. Accordingly, the insurance is insane.

 

[TheCracker]

The Impreza attracts a different set of problems. To all intents and purposes, they look and sound like the WRX/Impreza Turbo (generation dependant). Which means that they're intensely desirable right up until the moment the little TWOCer turns out of the end of your road. Whereupon he realises it's a Sport, fannies about in it for 30 minutes with his mates and then torches it. Accordingly, the insurance is insane.

And if it's anything like my Forester (which it is) you'll find that any 'urban' driving will leave you with a similar mpg to that of a Range Rover or Cayenne.

 

[homeforsummer]

And since I'm randomly suggesting cars I think you might like, did you guys get the N14 Pulsar, or some derivative? A GTI would seem like it might meet your needs, though they do have a bit of a following amongst the doof doof brigade who can't quite stretch to the GTI-R. Maybe the N15's too, if the 14's are too old.

We did indeed get the N14, known over here as the Sunny. We got a GTi version and the GTi-R, which was the turbocharged beast. Unfortunately, as you point out, they attract a "certain type" of owner. In fact, they attract two types. Utter unmentionables-under-the-AUP, and people who think they're the best thing in the world, ever, who treat them as a Jesus amongst performance cars. And I don't want to associate with either group. Plus, if I wanted to spend that much money on insurance I'd take up naked asphixiated skydiving.

As for the N15 (known as the Almera in the UK), I have had a cursory look at the Almera GTi which seems like a fairly reliable, practical and fun hot hatch (if a little dull), but again, those three letters on the back make for expensive premiums.

The 5th gen was sold in England, yes.. And on the 4th gen, you're not really missing out on a lot by not buying one. The driving position must be the worst I've ever experienced, everything's differently angled

The only 5th gens I can find that were sold in the UK were the depressing estate versions. I don't ever recall seeing any non-Evo 5th gens over here.

Heh, not really (but yes, it would).

"Scene tax" applies to cars which people of a certain age think are great and desirable, artificially bumping up the prices. Like Skylines - they command a premium over similar-performing vehicles because they're Skylines (even the weak-ass models - because they're "Skylines").

The Clio Williams was a great little car in its day. But you can go faster, stop better and corner quicker, safely, all for less in, say, a Clio 172. The 172 doesn't yet attract a scene tax, but the Clio Williams certainly does and, while the rose-tinteds say "brilliant car!" (and it was), it's not worth the money they sell for.

Ah, I follow you now. Yeah, that makes sense. It's the reason one of my favourite warm hatches, the 106 Rallye, is so expensive. Essentially it's just a lightweight, 8v 1.6 small Peugeot, but because of the Rallye badge and the fact people like turning them into race and rally cars, people charge ridiculous prices for them.

The Impreza attracts a different set of problems. To all intents and purposes, they look and sound like the WRX/Impreza Turbo (generation dependant). Which means that they're intensely desirable right up until the moment the little TWOCer turns out of the end of your road. Whereupon he realises it's a Sport, fannies about in it for 30 minutes with his mates and then torches it. Accordingly, the insurance is insane.

And if it's anything like my Forester (which it is) you'll find that any 'urban' driving will leave you with a similar mpg to that of a Range Rover or Cayenne.

Here we have my main issues with the Impreza. It'd look nice and perform as well as I'd need, but insurance is a little ridiculous on it for a standard, not very new saloon, and they do seem to guzzle fuel. Plus as well as being desirable to the little scrotes, they're also supposed to be way too easy to break into in the first place.

One thing I forgot to mention about the FTO yesterday - it had a Tracker. If I ever bought anything like the FTO or any other flash performance car, I'd consider something like a Tracker as an essential purchase, even if it's just for peace of mind.

 

[niky]

While the automatic selection of the INVECS is indeed responsive, considering the era in which they were sold, I still prefer a manual. I drove around in a 200 horsepower V6 hybrid Lancer for a day, with INVECS... wasn't terribly impressed. The engine is a high-revver, so pairing it with long gears wasn't such a hot idea.

Still, I'm used to having 150-170 hp and drive, on occassion, 250-300 hp cars, so it might not seem like a big deal to you.

-

Subarus? Bad gas mileage? Is the Pope Catholic? Do you get the non-turbo 2.0 or 2.5 there? That's actually quite a decent car, and probably not as hard to pay taxes on as the turbos.

 

[homeforsummer]

While the automatic selection of the INVECS is indeed responsive, considering the era in which they were sold, I still prefer a manual. I drove around in a 200 horsepower V6 hybrid Lancer for a day, with INVECS... wasn't terribly impressed. The engine is a high-revver, so pairing it with long gears wasn't such a hot idea.

Still, I'm used to having 150-170 hp and drive, on occassion, 250-300 hp cars, so it might not seem like a big deal to you.

Yup, pretty much. I haven't found anything I've tested to be slow as such so far, though I'm aware I've driven nothing properly fast either. Though the FTO GR apparently manages 60mph in about 8 seconds and over 130mph, which I wouldn't personally call slow.

Subarus? Bad gas mileage? Is the Pope Catholic? Do you get the non-turbo 2.0 or 2.5 there? That's actually quite a decent car, and probably not as hard to pay taxes on as the turbos.

We get the non-turbo 2.0 and also got a 1.6, but as Famine pointed out, insurance can still cost quite a bit because it's still an Impreza and little oiks will assume it's the turbo, nick it, thrash it and burn it. And even before then you're left with a small, slightly plasticy uneconomical saloon. So much as it's a cool idea it's not a particularly sensible one!