Historic Trans Am Racing Season II

  • Thread starter Kalmiya117
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I can get my 06 Z06 in at 550pp.. barely. (492hp, 1250kg).. The 04 Z06 goes down to around 520pp. '00 Z06 gets down to 500pp.
I think 550pp is reasonable. Or 500hp & 1300-1350kg, most cars i noticed can reduce down to around 1300. This range will open the door for wider variety of cars. What ever we decide on, I've got a Z06 that can get the job done.

see what happens Mudd when you finish in the top 3? We go and change EVERYTHING.


I still like the idea of a HP and KG restriction. But I leave that to everyone. 511HP and 1350 KG sounds like it could be an idea. However needs testing.


I will not be able to host anything Sunday as I get to work til 9. However for those who are on after 9 I wish for us to do some testing on GII Modern class cars.
 
So I ran some numbers comparing the hp/kg limits & pp. Some cars have downforce, and some don't. Just what I have in my garage. Here are my results:

(all cars @ 511hp, 1350 kg, & 5 downforce. U.N.O.)

06 Ford GT -566pp <-- had to use limiter @ 83% (no downforce)

07 Mustang -534pp <-- this has a 65f & 35r weight distribution... yikes.

10 Camaro SS -550pp

97 Z28 -537pp (no downforce)

04 Z06 -549pp

06 Z06 -552pp

02 Viper GTS -548

06 Viper SRT10 -546 (no downforce

08 Challenger -543 (1,412 kg)

I didn't bother with the Viper ACR, I don't think it fits in this class. Ford GT I believe is too much as well.
Overall, on paper, all these cars look pretty even. We should allow the Challenger & Mustang the use of downforce. Otherwise, they will have none chance.
 
So I ran some numbers comparing the hp/kg limits & pp. Some cars have downforce, and some don't. Just what I have in my garage. Here are my results:

(all cars @ 511hp, 1350 kg, & 5 downforce. U.N.O.)

06 Ford GT -566pp <-- had to use limiter @ 83% (no downforce)

07 Mustang -534pp <-- this has a 65f & 35r weight distribution... yikes.

10 Camaro SS -550pp

97 Z28 -537pp (no downforce)

04 Z06 -549pp

06 Z06 -552pp

02 Viper GTS -548

06 Viper SRT10 -546 (no downforce

08 Challenger -543 (1,412 kg)

I didn't bother with the Viper ACR, I don't think it fits in this class. Ford GT I believe is too much as well.
Overall, on paper, all these cars look pretty even. We should allow the Challenger & Mustang the use of downforce. Otherwise, they will have none chance.

I like it. After looking at the ACR and GT I knew they could not fit under any reasonable HP areas.
 
I agree with the testing Skel has done... I've been on vacation this week, kinda lost track... I think I've sent Kal and Titus the G1 prizes...for G2, Kal wants a Classic ticket, Titus and Skel are getting the same unless they message me otherwise.
 
Played with the 08 Challenger last night with SS on. @ the 511hp it was amazingly fun.

Are you guys going to go testing tonight? I get off at 9 and will be hopping on when I can.
 
I'll try to be around, for a little bit at least. That's around midnight for me and I got work in the morning.
I was playing with both the vipers yesterday @ 550pp, and those were really fun. And very quick.

There's some cars I left out of the list because I don't have them tuned up yet. i.e. SVT Cobra Mustang, Pontiac GTO 5.7, and how about the Shelby series 1? I would like to know where these cars stack up in comparison with the others.

EDIT: I'm getting my time zones mixed up. I subtract 3 hrs not add. I thought for a minute there the sun went the other way.
 
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Did a test on four cars today with the 611HP 1350KG deal

The Corvette 2004 Z06 was the fastest with well over 3 seconds faster on several tracks.

The Viper GTS and Challenger were slower and felt more unstable than the corvette when pushing it. The Prem. Mustang GT was by far the worst and felt bloated even when compared to the heavier challenger. I wouldn't think this car would compete nicely at all.

I of course have not tuned either of the three cars extensively just applied my base tune to each and did laps around Grand Valley and Deep Forest.

I should mention That both the vette and viper have stock transmissions and the challenger the full racing one. And none of the cars had any downforce.

At this point, I believe it would be a Corvette race. Even with the 550pp I think the corvettes would be hard to beat. I ve seen what they can do. And there are some of us with way more time logged in with cars at 550pp than others, which makes me also not want to do a 550pp limit.

Overall I believe it may be hard to find a good area to make the Modern G2 competitive. At any rate I wouldn't mind just have the Modern Trans Am G1 class run only.

Of course these are just my thoughts. I need everyone's thoughts as well. I also need anyone who has any nice photos of the Trans Am cars in racing form for a new header on the new thread I will be matchmaking week.
 
Kal, I think you're jumping to premature conclusions. I find it hard to believe vipers & camaro are 3 seconds slower then the 04 Z06. I had my SRT10 tearin sh** up yesterday. I also know my 10 SS is right up there as well. I think its a matter of tuning and properly distributing the added weight to get the desired stability. If the Z06 is really that dominant, then maybe allow downforce on all vehicles except the Z06.
I'm going to conduct my own test this afternoon on a track that will be on this seasons schedule. I will be in my lounge. Anyone is welcome to join.
 
I'll be on all day today so I'll be looking forward to some testing later tonight.
 
Thought I'd repost the car lists with what I have in bold. ;)
Modern Trans Am Muscle Car list

Group I

Restrictions: 611HP 1250 KG

  • Ford Falcon XR8
  • Corvette Z06 RM
  • Corvette ZR1 RM
  • Dodge Viper Team Oreca
  • Corvette C-5R
  • Camaro LM
  • Camaro RM
  • Ford GT LM Spec II
  • Ford GT LM Spec II Test

Group II

Restrictions: (Pending) Thinking taking all of the cars stock weights, adding them up and averaging them out to come up with a number. And perhaps a 511 HP Limit on Sport Softs?

  • Corvette Z06
  • Corvette ZR1
  • Camaro SS
  • Challenger SRT8
  • Ford GT
  • Viper GTS
  • Viper SRT
  • Viper ACR
  • Mustang GT
I have both RM'd 'Vettes and both will need some tweaking on the engine to get them down to the prescribed HP settings the other two I think I'll save for the series they're prepped for. ;). As for Group II, I have a Challenger gift card that I've yet to redeem and a Ford GT that sorta gives me some control issues when I drove it in it's stock setting. The added option of a Mustang GT does look inviting though. :)
 
I think we ruled the Ford GT out Cam. Too fast. Anyway Skel and I did some testing with a few cars just now and I personally don't think the Z06 is too fast at all. I kept up in an basic(no LSD) tuned Viper and kept up pretty well. We both liked 550 PP instead of power/weight too. It makes it more fair for the Chally, Stang and Comaro to keep up with the help of areo. Tire wear is going to be an issue though I can tell you that. Well looking forward to some more testing tonight with a little more people.
 
OK, so the 06 Z06 is a bit faster with the hp/kg restrictions (over a second/lap). We then tried a 550pp restriction, and that made the other cars more competitive with the Z06 (within a second). I'm still on the fence, but I'm leaning towards pp limit. It seems to help out the less fortunate cars. Some cars are better off being light weight & less hp, while others are not.
 
Would a Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07 be acceptible for racing in Modern Group II?
 
Cahill is correct on that one, I don't see the '07 mustang being competitive at all. Or the 05 standard one either. Unless we do a pp system. Then it might have a chance. There's the mustang SVT Cobra available too that was left off the list. Not sure how that will stack up. Or what about the Shelby Series One?

After some testing yesterday, the ss tires in modern GII class is proving to be quite laborious trying to keep them on the track, and it required expert throttle control to keep the tires from melting. So we tried RH tires, and this seems like it's the way to go.

The hp/kg limits work well with a handfull of cars. But if we want more variety, the easiest way to make more cars competitive with eachother is pp. Not perfect, but nothing is.

We also did a night race at Sarth. Pretty cool track at night. Night & rain was too much. I turned grip reduction to "real", (Kal almost booted me out of the room after kicking and screaming) and wasn't too bad. I think this should be in next season regulations. I've come to the realization, that a lot of people (including myself) are using the grass & dirt as part of the race track. We shouldn't be doing that. Unless you're driving a 4x4 pickup truck!

that's it for now.
 
Cahill is correct on that one, I don't see the '07 mustang being competitive at all. Or the 05 standard one either. Unless we do a pp system. Then it might have a chance. There's the mustang SVT Cobra available too that was left off the list. Not sure how that will stack up. Or what about the Shelby Series One?

After some testing yesterday, the ss tires in modern GII class is proving to be quite laborious trying to keep them on the track, and it required expert throttle control to keep the tires from melting. So we tried RH tires, and this seems like it's the way to go.

The hp/kg limits work well with a handfull of cars. But if we want more variety, the easiest way to make more cars competitive with eachother is pp. Not perfect, but nothing is.

We also did a night race at Sarth. Pretty cool track at night. Night & rain was too much. I turned grip reduction to "real", (Kal almost booted me out of the room after kicking and screaming) and wasn't too bad. I think this should be in next season regulations. I've come to the realization, that a lot of people (including myself) are using the grass & dirt as part of the race track. We shouldn't be doing that. Unless you're driving a 4x4 pickup truck!

that's it for now.

I am all for the Shelby One series being allowed. I have not driven mine so I do not know of it's abilities.

I did enjoy racing at night in the rain, but seeing that we never did it before ti took some time to get use to it. I actually want to do alot more night races. I don't mind having it set to real next season. As Mudd knows I can still pull same lap times with it on. I just figured that it punish you more for going off track, and if you are in a tight battle it will make it just that harder to regain after a tiny mistake.


And after testing I do believe a PP limit is the way to go, 550pp being the golden area but Sport Softs just cannot handle the cars with 500+ HP without alot of throttle manipulation. If we all had Wheels and pedals I would say lets do it but with a controller and lots of laps. Just not a real easy deal. So we tested racing hards and the cars still liked to kick out a bit, but were more controllable.
 
I just ran a few laps with RH tires on a couple different 550pp cars, liked it. Fairly controllable but still had to careful with the right foot. I agree with grip set to real, I don't think any of us intentionally cut grass, but a few of us (including me) have gotten so used to off's on certain corners and learned to control them, that from another angle we certainly look like we're cutting. And really don't believe 'grip real' is gonna effect us a lot, and it will force us better control on those 'on the edge' corners.

I really think the SVT Cobra R should be competitive if anyone is looking for a Ford. I havn't tested it for this exact scenario but I have often broke it out in 550-ish PP rooms and had a blast with it. Pretty sure it's the only Ford in my favorites list.

I also have no problem with allowing down force only on certain cars, provided we all agree it needs it. I think it's pretty obvious what cars have the advantage and which don't. I don't think that would be something we'd have to police, even the little Camaro rear wing is pretty obvious sticking up as it passes.

Oh yea, isn't there a few 80's and 90's cars we could include in the Modern G2? The Buick GNX, '00 Camaro SS and the '97 Z28 perhaps. (that last one was for Titus)
 
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Oh yea, isn't there a few 80's and 90's cars we could include in the Modern G2? The Buick GNX, '00 Camaro SS and the '97 Z28 perhaps. (that last one was for Titus)

Absolutely. Same goes for '90 ZR1, '96 Grandsport, '88 IROC. . . I'm curious if anyone would be savvy enough to run the GNX.

Kal, probably should put up next season OP soon. Maybe do a week or 2 of practice/testing, get some more people's interest, give everyone a chance to choose cars. Make sure I'm around when you do so I can lock in the standings post right under your stuff. I've been working on a better format for the standings. Different fonts, colors, should be a lot nicer & easier to read.
 
Be working on a new thread format here soon.

Because of the wide range of cars in group 2, I say everyone be allowed to change cars around. But only group 2.
 
Kalmiya117
Be working on a new thread format here soon.

Because of the wide range of cars in group 2, I say everyone be allowed to change cars around. But only group 2.

I think if we're gonna allow frequent car choice changes, then it should be that we are required to change cars every so often. Otherwise, by the end of the season, we will all be driving Skel's Vette.

I personally prefer sticking with your car choice, but I usually wait to see what everyone picks and try to go a different choice. The ability to switch cars throughout the season may encourage people to use the uncommon cars, but I think most will start picking whatever car wins the previous week. Kinda a double edge sword there.
 
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I don't think its bad, whatever u choose is good with me. But I race in a league that's open n no one is ever that consistant unless there is a dominant car but if there is then that car needs to b banned.
 
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I think if we're gonna allow frequent car choice changes, then it should be that we are required to change cars every so often. Otherwise, by the end of the season, we will all be driving Skel's Vette.

I personally prefer sticking with your car choice, but I usually wait to see what everyone picks and try to go a different choice. The ability to switch cars throughout the season may encourage people to use the uncommon cars, but I think most will start picking whatever car wins the previous week. Kinda a double edge sword there.


Well, almost everything is a double edge sword. I personally have no clue what to use for G2 in modern.

However, I do need as many guys to show up sunday eve so I can try for another photo op and do some more testing.
 
I also think that once we find all the regulations we like that we can stick too n further develop this series n our skills. Like I talk about this league I am in n it took me 5 seasons to get as fast as the fast guys n nowadays I am finally beating them n I never use a popular car that wins all.
 
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I was actually planning on going with an all Camaro this season.. The 550pp Z06 is my bread & butter.

We're not allowed to "switch horses" in any other group. So we shouldn't here either.
 
Do you guys have anymore room for another racer? I've raced with a couple of the guys on the roster. Even if i can't race could i maybe watch, races with these cars have to be pretty exciting.
 
Check it out, Vintage meets Modern at work today!

IMG_8544.jpg


Ridge, we've got plenty of room for ya. Kalmiya is working on a new thread to start our next season right now, we should have the sign ups and the schedule posted real soon. Oh yea, welcome to GT Planet!:D:cheers:
 
I will be starting on a new Thread tonight, Far as restrictions, Vintage Side will stay same.

Modern Side is Group One, 611 HP 1250 KG Group Two, 550pp.

I have a set track list now. I am afraid La Sarthe will drive everyone nuts as we will have to deal with Night, and Rain on that track. In fact I am offering for us to do the whole night/day rain/sunny on any track allowing it. Time to challenge ourselves alot.


The other night I tried doing the GT40 and majorly failed. Needs alot of tuning or just alot of luck with a steering wheel attached. Possible I was just highly frustrated with some in life issues going on. That and I have not been playing GT5 hardly at all anymore to the point I am getting rusty. Need to bone up.
 
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