Honda S2000 VS Mazda RX8

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec

The S2000 comes with a space saver spare tire mounted on a steel wheel. At least, my buddy's did.

Yes, yes, but what do you do with the tyre that's blown?

I don't know why you'd assume I don't like Mustangs.

Because nobody likes Mustangs. Even 'car people' here, who are very knowledgeable about cars, immediately dismiss the Mustang as crap. It simply isn't. I'd love to see a comparison between the RX-8 6-speed (fully loaded) and the Mustang Mach 1. The RX-8 would take it in handling and steering, but is that worth the $2000 you pay extra, plus the features, power, and interior size you don't get?

I have a bias against domestic cars only in it that they have not built many cars that I cared to own in the past. But I try to never pass judgement (good or bad) on a car until I've had a chance to drive it. I don't automatically presume domestics car crap, but I am predisposed to think GM, Ford and Chrysler am not interested in building the kind of cars that I like to buy.

That's really the bias I was talking about. I realise GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a lot of **** cars in the past. With the exception of the Toyota Prius, some of the worst cars have come out of those three companies - Dodge Shadow and Spirit, Chevrolet Astro, Ford Aerostar, Cadillac Cimarron, Chevrolet Cavalier - but I think it's only fair to approach every car with no bias of a manufacturer (forgetting past endeavors entirely), particularly in the GTO's case as GM's trying to rebuild itself (and therefore the car won't be as susceptible to the normal 'parts bin' production) and the car's Australian GM, not typical American GM.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
Yes, yes, but what do you do with the tyre that's blown?[/B]

Ah. Gotcha. Not sure. Don't think the rear wheels+tire will fit in the trunk... guess the passenger seat gets to hold it or you can stick it in the trunk with the lid open.

Originally posted by M5Power
Even 'car people' here, who are very knowledgeable about cars, immediately dismiss the Mustang as crap. It simply isn't.[/B]

Well, I don't. But you're right. I notice that this attitude is common amoungst younger people: Imports rule, Domestics suck. This is because young people are notoriously trend concious and would rather live by the sway of popular opinion than think for themselves.

As for me, I have very specific needs in terms of handling. Owning two M3s have spoiled me rotten. The SVT tuned Mustangs are very good, but not quite there.

Originally posted by M5Power
That's really the bias I was talking about. I realise GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a lot of **** cars in the past.[/B]

What can I say? Bad reputations are tough to overcome. The Big Three is making some pretty good stuff these days, but quite a lot of it is geared towards "non-car people". They survive on SUV and truck fat and rental fleet volume.

Cars like the SVT Focus and Neon SRT-4 are going a long ways to fix the rut they're in with car-people, but they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.

I don't happen to think domestics are "crap", but neither are they usually segment leading. Using a sports term, what Detroit needs is a deep bench. And they don't have that. They have a few peaks of excellent products (Corvette), but the rest of the lineups are mired in mediocrity.


///M-Spec

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec

What can I say? Bad reputations are tough to overcome. The Big Three is making some pretty good stuff these days, but quite a lot of it is geared towards "non-car people". They survive on SUV and truck fat and rental fleet volume.

I've noticed this as a huge problem, and that in almost every instance, the truck and SUV market is actually allowing domestic makers to slack off in production of cars, since they don't need good cars to make a profit when the trucks and SUVs are so good. You can bet that if the Envoy and Trailblazer weren't as good as they are, Chevy would be forced to actually spend some money and - gasp! - make the Impala and Malibu good.

American makes are very, very good at analysing the trends in the SUV and truck market - look how much of a change the TrailBlazer was over the outgoing Blazer - but they're so far behind in the family sedan and small car markets, you wonder why they don't just quit. The Chevrolet Cavalier is one of the best-selling small cars in the country, but to make it that way, Chevy's had to spend so much on advertising, it makes almost no profit. What's the point?

Cars like the SVT Focus and Neon SRT-4 are going a long ways to fix the rut they're in with car-people, but they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.

They really need a performance line like BMW has M and Mercedes has AMG. Ford's done it a bit with SVT, but they need more SVT products to make any real leaps with the youth market.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
I've noticed this as a huge problem, and that in almost every instance, the truck and SUV market is actually allowing domestic makers to slack off in production of cars[/B]

Yep. All true. But it might go deeper than that. Here's what I notice: the bulk of American passenger car buyers are not car people. They don't really care if they have the best accelerating, best handling, most well equiped car they can afford. It doesn't matter if they have a segment leading product in their driveway. What they want is something with preceived reliablily and they want a good deal on it. Thus, the deep discounting of the Big Three brands last 3 years really shows you what their volume strategy is: it's the Walmart approach. Sell lots, sell cheap.

This is deeply ironic because its exactly the same strategy that put Japanese brands on the map in the 70s. And Detroit laughed at them when they did this.

Originally posted by M5Power
They really need a performance line like BMW has M and Mercedes has AMG. Ford's done it a bit with SVT, but they need more SVT products to make any real leaps with the youth market. [/B]

Well, they already do. Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth. Remember, Detriot invented the idea of the performance brand. Except these days, they're obviously not very serious about it, with the possible exception of the GTO.

If Ford and Dodge want to get serious with their SVT and SRT product lines, they need a deeper bench. There's a yawning gap between the entry level cars (Focus and Neon) and the flagships (Cobra, Viper). An SVT Taurus and SRT-6 Sebring would go a long way to establishing the brands... this way the Focus and Neon people have something they can move "up" to when they get older.


///M-Spec

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Yep. All true. But it might go deeper than that. Here's what I notice: the bulk of American passenger car buyers are not car people. They don't really care if they have the best accelerating, best handling, most well equiped car they can afford. It doesn't matter if they have a segment leading product in their driveway. What they want is something with preceived reliablily and they want a good deal on it. Thus, the deep discounting of the Big Three brands last 3 years really shows you what their volume strategy is: it's the Walmart approach. Sell lots, sell cheap.

That's actually a fair point - assuming this is entirely true, it explains why the cars are the way they are and why the domestic companies won't do anything about it - there's no need to have the best-selling car in America if you've got very many good-selling cars, as Ford and GM do.

Toyota might pass Chrysler in market share, but where else do they go? The one market the Japanese still can't crack is large pickups, yet the three main competitors in that market make up a huge percentage of total vehicle sales every year.

Well, they already do. Pontiac, Mercury and Plymouth. Remember, Detriot invented the idea of the performance brand. Except these days, they're obviously not very serious about it, with the possible exception of the GTO.

I'm not too scared of those makes in the performance sector - Plymouth was cancelled a few years ago, and Mercury's only sporty product does a quarter mile slower than an Accord. Pontiac's always had the image in my mind, but nobody else seems to believe it.

If Ford and Dodge want to get serious with their SVT and SRT product lines, they need a deeper bench. There's a yawning gap between the entry level cars (Focus and Neon) and the flagships (Cobra, Viper). An SVT Taurus and SRT-6 Sebring would go a long way to establishing the brands... this way the Focus and Neon people have something they can move "up" to when they get older.

I'd suggest the same thing, but we've already seen an SHO Taurus - for ten years - and it stopped making a profit. Chrysler's Sebring sedan and its Dodge Stratus twin aren't supposed to be the sporty versions of that line, the coupes are - the problem is, nobody's buying the coupes. Maybe the American consumer is only interested in imported performance trims.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
Maybe the American consumer is only interested in imported performance trims.

It would seem that way, doesn't it?

We'll find out when the V-series Caddies hit the streets.


///M-Spec

 

[audiracing]

There befofe good cars except roadsters/spyders kick serious arse.

 

[Cyrus Khan]

Hey, here I want to tell people that Mazda RX8 resembles Honda S2000. Can you imagine that?

 

[TexRex]

 

[TenEightyOne]

Hey, here I want to tell people that Mazda RX8 resembles Honda S2000. Can you imagine that?

Having seen them... no.

They resemble each other about as much as this White Jesus resembles Actual Jesus

The S2000 won't need an expensive 80,000 mile re-tip either.

 

[05XR8]

Having seen them... no.



They resemble each other about as much as this White Jesus resembles Actual Jesus

The S2000 won't need an expensive 80,000 mile re-tip either.

Yeah, send the RX-8 to the tip.

 

[Vegard]

The S2000 won't need an expensive 80,000 mile re-tip either.

That seals it for me.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

14 years. I'm impressed.

 

[TexRex]

14 years. I'm impressed.

Right?

If I'm not mistaken, both cars were still being produced after this thread died.

 

[Moglet]

The S2000 won't need an expensive 80,000 mile re-tip either.

Ah, but this leads to the best thing about the RX8; you can buy one and have the engine fully re-built with a street port (and a 12 month warranty) for less than an S2000 costs in the UK. I'm not sure how it translates to the US or other countries though.

EDIT: I've just noticed how old this thread is

 

[homeforsummer]

Yeah, bit of a gravedig, but given that both are now used cars rather than new it's an interesting comparison.

I'm on the side of the RX-8. That car drove better than I expected it to when I drove one last year, while the S2000 I drove recently wasn't quite as good as I was hoping it'd be. RX-8s are fantastic value too even if that's for a fairly good reason...

 

[Cyrus Khan]

RX8 resemblence with S2K AP1 because, when I started playing gran turismo 4 in 2005 using my brother's play station 2, I pick Honda manufacturer to select cars. there I see a convertible car with Mazda RX8 headlights, then i checked back, totally resembled rx8 with lights and bumpers designs. See AP1 variant of S2K and 2003 RX8 variant. I first see Honda s2000 as mazda rx8 cabriolet. then I came to know this is not rx8 but resembles rx8 by front and rear bumpers and lights. I got hotwheels car honda s2000. i showed to my brither in law, he says "WHAT! A car have front of honda and back of rx8?" few of my friends see honda s2000 and think that this is rx8. I told them that it resembles rx8 but it is honda s2000 and resembles by it's lights and bumpers.

 

[ImaRobot]

that was a doozy

 

[Cyrus Khan]

RX8 resemblence with S2K AP1 because, when I started playing gran turismo 4 in 2005 using my brother's play station 2, I pick Honda manufacturer to select cars. there I see a convertible car with Mazda RX8 headlights, then i checked back, totally resembled rx8 with lights and bumpers designs. See AP1 variant of S2K and 2003 RX8 variant. I first see Honda s2000 as mazda rx8 cabriolet. then I came to know this is not rx8 but resembles rx8 by front and rear bumpers and lights. I got hotwheels car honda s2000. i showed to my brither in law, he says "WHAT! A car have front of honda and back of rx8?" few of my friends see honda s2000 and think that this is rx8. I told them that it resembles rx8 but it is honda s2000 and resembles by it's lights and bumpers.

that was a doozy

ImaRobot Yes I'm right.

Clearly see them.

 

[homeforsummer]

They're definitely both cars I'll give you that.

 

[TexRex]

Hmmm, round wheels...

 

[UnkaD]

If you can't tell these apart I don't know how you could possibly distinguish anything else on the road.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm not sure why a 2 seat convertible is being compared with a 4 seat 4 door coupe in the first place, other than they're both Japanese cars from the same era.

 

[Cyrus Khan]

I'm not sure why a 2 seat convertible is being compared with a 4 seat 4 door coupe in the first place, other than they're both Japanese cars from the same era.

Having resembled headlights taillights and bumpers also.

 

[05XR8]

Love it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Having resembled headlights taillights and bumpers also.

And some wheels. Don't forget the wheels.

 

[Cyrus Khan]

And some wheels. Don't forget the wheels.

See the rx8 mod for nfs underground 2.

TenEightyOne is right.

 

[daan]

TenEightyOne is right.

He is. They both definitely have wheels.