Honda S2000 VS Mazda RX8
- Thread starter rollazn
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WRX. That's not really a question for me, especially if I could pay the extra 5,000 bones and up it to an STi. The RX-8 is sexy though, many times sexier than either of those two cars.
- 185
The S2000 would be my choice.... The Rx-8 is not as sharp and good looking as its bretherin (rx-7).. i really love the rx-7, but to me the rx-8 was a big dissapointment to me when i sat in it for the fisrt time....And Rotarys are not the most dependable engines on the road, but i still loves mazda no matter what... S2000 For me at the moment
Super-Supra
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Overrall If I could buy one it'd be the S2000.
The Vanishing Boy
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- Vanishing Boy
Since they both won the Car and Driver's 10 Best award, what not to like between the both of them. I'm with Mazkid, practicality over performance, the best car for that is the Subaru Forester 2.5 XT (turbo). The RX-8 is still way performance oriented because no such person will fit behind me when I drive the RX-8 (6'4ft driver). And I will never own an Enzo (even with the money), in fact I rather souped up a R34 Skyline GT-R than get that overpriced Italian exotic.
Spend your mullah wisely.
Spend your mullah wisely.
///M-Spec
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That's the hitch, ain't it?
I don't want 5 seats. 2 in the back, very small, will do nicely. (see my avatar if you want to know why)
And unlike many people on the Evo/'Preza bandwagon, I don't automatically consider AWD a major benefit when choosing my cars. It is simply not a selling point for me, whereas RWD is.
I've driven/been-in the Evo and 'Preza: they're not signifigantly roomier than the 8.
And cheap options? Like what? They both have cheap, bottom-rung, low rent Walwart interiors ... is that what you're talking about?
Price being equal, they have one undeniable advatange over the RX: they will smoke it in a straight line. Which is why the Renesis desperately needs more development work... or a turbo.
///M-Spec
- 185
which publication did u get that the GTO won car of the year award?
Okay, fine. But they are roomier, so why wouldn't I use that in comparison? In some categories, it's astounding - rear leg room of an Evo, for instance, is 4.4 inches more than that of the RX-8. In the categories of front head room, front leg room, rear head room, and rear leg room, the RX-8 does not take a single category over either the WRX or the Evo. It really is significiantly smaller, plus it's missing the fifth seat. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you, but it will to much of the buying public.
Strangely, I'm actually referring to cheaper options. A loaded WRX sedan starts at $26000. That involves front side airbags, a limited-slip differential, a 6-CD player, a rear spoiler, fog lights, a power sunroof, heated front seats, and heated power mirrors.
On the $26700 RX-8, front side airbags are standard, as is a limited-slip differential. A 6-CD player is not offered, nor is a rear spoiler or heated mirrors. Fog lights are $1100 extra; a power sunroof is $1600 on top of the fog lights; heated front seats are $1200 above the sunroof and the fog lights. So for $30600 - $300 less than a WRX STi - you get a well-equipped (not even a fully-loaded) RX-8 which still loses a 6-CD player, rear spoiler, and heated power mirrors to a WRX.
And price isn't equal. So why buy an RX-8?
GilesGuthrie
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I would have an RX-8 in preference to an S2000.
But I live in a country where it rains at least 150 days a year, therefore I want 4WD. So I would have the WRX in preference to either.
Or if we're being honest, I've kinda grown out of the Japanese rocket-powered econobox thing, and would probably be looking for a 4wd German car with a couple of years under the wheels. Something with four rings and a boot.
But I live in a country where it rains at least 150 days a year, therefore I want 4WD. So I would have the WRX in preference to either.
Or if we're being honest, I've kinda grown out of the Japanese rocket-powered econobox thing, and would probably be looking for a 4wd German car with a couple of years under the wheels. Something with four rings and a boot.
///M-Spec
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Its very simple. Each person will valuate a car differently based on his/her priorities. You assume everyone in the world will value feature X at the same level you personally do. This is where your argument falls apart. We don't.
For a little over 30 grand, I could have a) an RX-8 6 speed with GT package b) a loaded Evo 8 +2 grand in my pocket or c) a 'base' STi.
I don't give a flip about rear legroom. I seldomly have rear seat passengers and when I do, I will drive my wife's car. My only need for rear seats is to carry the little dumpling you see in my avatar. Therefore: STi/Evo rear seat advantage = inconsequential to me. The packaging of the RX is better for me and it shows up in a weight advatange of 150+ lbs. Advantage: RX.
I don't give a flip about AWD. I live in Florida and don't drive fast in the wet because its a f^&kin dumb thing to do. Therefore, the traction advantages offered by the STi/Evo = inconsequential to me. In addition, I have grown up driving RWD cars. I've learned to enjoy balancing a RWD car on the throttle. Changing the cornering attitude on a car with the right foot is one of the purest joys in all of autodom. I can do this in the M3, and I can do this in the RX and it simply cannot happen on the Evo/STi.. at least, not on the versions we get here. So the additional complexity, drivetrain loss and unsprung weight of the AWD systems in the STi/Evo is a demerit in my eyes. Advantage: RX
The RX-8, even with optional sport suspension, rides better than the Evo (and I presume, the STi, but not I've driven it). I'm a old fart, and I like my old fart arse pampered when I commute. Advantage: RX
Finally, the RX-8 w/GT package has all the little goodies a fully loaded STi/Evo has. (6 disc changers, heated mirrors I can really give 2 sh%ts about) But it goes one step further and supports a leather interior. BIG plus in my eyes. If want leather in the Mitsu or Scooby, I will need to go aftermarket.. Advantage: RX
Yep. The STi/Evo will run 12s for you if you're good. The RX will barely break into the 13s, and that's if you're awesome. Advantage: STi/Evo
I like to go fast... but given the overwhelming things the RX offers to me... there's little sense in going with the other cars. Bottom line, Doug, is that it all comes down to personal priorities.. and there's no objective standard that will fit everyone. Mazda has a unique and very sellable combination in the RX-8 and they are likely to earn my 30k when I'm ready to let the M3 go.
[EDIT: I forgot to mention the RX is way, way easier on the eyes than the pug-ugly WRX and econobox on steriods Evo. For my 30 grand, I need to be able to look at it everyday without wishing I bought a better looking car. Advantage: RX]
///M-Spec
No, I agree. But I can't fit a comparison to every single person in the world. If the RX-8 is better-suited for you, fine. I still don't see how it is, even with all the reasons you've stated below. It seems like you really want the RX-8 to be better. Point being, to an average person - to anybody, I imagine, who is interested in power, value, styling (the RX-8 is, in my opinion, the ugliest Japanese car ever sold, and no, I won't debate styling), room, and spec - the RX-8 is not the number one choice.
Actually, no - I'm looking at updated 2004 prices. Strangely, I don't care enough to go on 'build your car' every time I want to compare; I've got the prices in front of me.
You, on the other hand, want to disprove me at every turn and actually try pathetically hard as referenced above. You often fail. Nevertheless, I enjoy it. At least somebody's paying attention!
///M-Spec
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Did you miss the part where I said what features I wanted?
I want RWD. I want a coupe body with 4 seats. I want a manual tranmission. I want a leather interior. I want world-class handling and I want the car to run minimum mid-14s. I want all this for no more than 30 grand USD, after the car is optioned out.
Are you telling me the RX-8 is not an excellent choice if I want all these things? Or are you telling me that I don't know what I really want?
///M-Spec
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I can agree with your reasoning if comparing against the Subes. But the S2000 is just slightly more expensive and blows the doors off an RX-8 for what you're looking for. Unless of course you'd like a useless backseat. In which case get your RX-8 and be happy.
HOWEVER! The 'rotor shaped' shift handle on the manual transmission, where cool, is quite odd feeling. I drove two different ones for about half an hour and at the end of it all I still wasn't used to it. But it is cool looking.
///M-Spec
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I don't know why you'd draw that conclusion. The S2k is a low 14 second car. The RX-8 is a mid-14 second car. By all accounts, the S should pull maybe a couple, tops three, cars in the 1320, in 3rd. I'd hardly call that "blowing the doors off".
If you go back and read my posts in this thread, you'll see the back seat is not quite 'useless' to me.
You can change the actual knob pretty easily. Tougher to fix is the drivetrain vibration in the lower gears coming through the shifter itself, which seems to be a hallmark of Mazda trannies ; my wife's Miata did the same exact thing.
///M-Spec
///M-Spec
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That's an interesting, if not grossly incorrect statement. I've driven E36 BMWs as my last THREE cars. A 325is, and 2 M3s. I have a long established affinity for RWD, 4 seat coupes that can double as sedans in a pinch. I'm hardly going out of my way to like the RX-8; it does almost everything a BMW 3-series coupe does, but costs about 10 grand less. As expensive as kids are, I'm suddenly very cost concious these days.
How do you figure I'm rationalizing my way into the Mazda?
The Mach 1 is out. Its essentially a GT with an '02 Cobra powertrain. I have seat time in the old Cobras, and the RX has it beat for chassis dynamics.
I'd definately give the GTO a try if I can get one for 30 grand. I might love it. But I'm not holding my breath --3800 lb GMs are not well known for good handling.
///M-Spec
///M-Spec
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That's absolutely true.
I have quite a bit of seat time behind the S2000, including autocross time. The S is a fantastic handling car, but there is a downside: it has a spooky trailing throttle oversteer tendency. This is okay at the track, but bad mojo in the backroads. The confidence just isn't there.
IMO, RX-8 is every bit as good as the S in the handling dept. It has huge mechanical grip and is less twitchy than the S at 10/10ths. It's probably not as strong in transitions, because it is softer sprung, but in sustained turns, it should be more than a match for the Honda. This is backed up by the fact that most magazines show an identical .91g at the skidpad for both cars.
Bottom line is, I doubt an S2000 can pull ahead of an RX-8 in the twisties. You can doubt me if you like, but if you take a cursory survey of the SCCA Solo II drivers who are campaigning the RX-8 in B-Stock against the S2000, you'd see that they are quite competative against each other. RX-8s are doing very well, and this is just their first year.
///M-Spec
i chose the s2000. performance oriented honda cars are known for their confidence in steering, and shifting, plus ive driven some of them, so i know. i would expect the s2000 to be even better.
i dont like how subaru uses macpherson struts on all four corners, sure it handles good, but because of the downsides to it, i dont consider them real suspensions. i usually only consider cars with double wishbone at all four corners like the rx-7, 2nd gen eclipse, and some of the older hondas, but there are some cars with struts only on the front that i consider, like the bmw cars, and the 240sx.
i dont like how subaru uses macpherson struts on all four corners, sure it handles good, but because of the downsides to it, i dont consider them real suspensions. i usually only consider cars with double wishbone at all four corners like the rx-7, 2nd gen eclipse, and some of the older hondas, but there are some cars with struts only on the front that i consider, like the bmw cars, and the 240sx.
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I don't doubt you, but I would like to see some of those numbers.
From my perspective:
S2000 has better looks, more fun, built by a more reliable manufacturer, more accepted technology, and it's a convertible.
RX-8 has for my purposes a practically useless backseat and door system which is simply added weight. I was less comfortable in the vehicle and (not that performance is huge) I don't think it could keep up with an S2000 in any event.
Since I don't have any friends who currently have a manual RX-8 and an S2000 (got an auto RX-8 and used to have a couple S2000s in the group ...) I'll have to play with them both on GT3 tonight (:
My perspective, for clarification, is a ~$36,000 range and no family. I have a girlfriend who loves to go fast in a fun car with the top down. And my entire family drives Hondas. However, roughly eight years ago I fell in love with the rotary engine. When they put it in a roadster / coupe I'll go back to Mazda and have another look. The RX-8 does not have great appeal to me.
