How did JFK die?

[Mike Rotch]

Reading in the paper yesterday, various theories are abound about how many gunmen there where and about the "magic bullet".

Basically there are two theories.

a) Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter, and he was located at the Book Depository. His first shot ricocheted off a tree and entered the pavement way ahead of the motorcade, injuring a spectator. The second shot passed through JFK's neck, a non-fatal wound, entered the shoulder of the Senator seated in-front of JFK, and exiting the chest of the Senator. The third shot was the fatal one.

b) Lee Harvey and another gunman perpertrated the assassination. Lee Harvey had two shots, the first a miss, the second the same magic bullet. The second gunman delivered the fatal shot.


Problems with a) include the fact that it would have been impossible to reload the hunting rifle Harvey was using so quickly as to deliver 3 shots in under 12 seconds. The loading mechanism took only one bullet at a time.

Problems with b) no-one heard a shot from the "grass knoll" where the second gunman would have been.

Your views?

 

[Vasco]

Apparently there was a massive loss of evidence...when one man on the knoll was let go as he posed as a member of the FBI, when they only had people in the motoracde, so I'm thinking along b.

 

[Ghost C]

The gunman on the grassy knoll could've been using a supressed weapon, thus explaining why nobody heard the shot.

I'd opt for B, because if a guy misses his shot twice (I don't count a non-fatal hit if you're trying to kill someone, that's just plain unprofessional) he's probably not going to get lucky on the third shot.

 

[Mike Rotch]

The problem with b) is that the Grass Knoll gunman was almost perpenticular to the President. Thus if the fatal shot came from that direction, the wound to JFK would have been horizontally across the head (ear to ear). the wound was longitudinal (the right side of his head was blown away, indicating a shot from the rear).

 

[Ghost C]

Do they know what caliber the bullet that killed him was? Because in a smaller caliber, a hollowpoint used from too far away could have caused the head to be blown off like that.

(For example, one time I was using a homemade hollow in my pellet rifle, and I went to shoot a black bird, only problem is I waso ut of effective range for the round - The bird ended up being wounded really bad, but was still unhurt on the opposite side, and I had to go take him out with another shot)

 

[Jeff I.]

Originally posted by Mike Rotch



Problems with a) include the fact that it would have been impossible to reload the hunting rifle Harvey was using so quickly as to deliver 3 shots in under 12 seconds. The loading mechanism took only one bullet at a time.

I watched a video, and they did a test, to see if the three shots under 12 seconds was possible and it was, but they dont know if Harvey could have been that fast.

 

[Der Alta]

Originally posted by Mike Rotch
The problem with b) is that the Grass Knoll gunman was almost perpenticular to the President. Thus if the fatal shot came from that direction, the wound to JFK would have been horizontally across the head (ear to ear). the wound was longitudinal (the right side of his head was blown away, indicating a shot from the rear).

An additional problem and and theory resides in the the blood spray pattern.

An excerpt from the book "The Zapruder Film: Reframing JFK's Assassination":
"The evidence on frames 337 and 338 of the Zapruder film could alter the course of American history. ... In fine color detail these two frames clearly show the back of President Kennedy's head undamaged, with his clothing intact and unbloodied. It proves that the shot that caused the president's massive head wound came from the front and that there was no shot in the back of the head, thus affirming two or more assassins conspired to kill him."

A very interesting book.

AO

 

[spike10h]

he got shot in the head

 

[cinjun8]

.303 round,I think it was

 

[Gil]

He was shot at long range by one or more gunmen.
If is was a .303, that bullet was (at that time) available in a non-jacketed soft nose bullet. (It was designed to kill large game)
A soft nose that size would have done a pretty fair amount of fragmenting upon hitting bone.
That fragmentation could account for the sheer amount of damage to the head of JFK.

 

[Josh]

How did he die? He got the back of his head blown off.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Originally posted by Josh
How did he die? He got the back of his head blown off.

Mystery solved chaps.

Thanks for that valuable insight.

 

[Josh]

Meh, I do what I can.

 

[TurboSmoke]

<ignore>
i believe he was shot by some guy with a gun...or something like that.....

if there is a conspiracy theory then i more intrested in sticking knitting needles into my eyes sockets....

that would certainly be less painful that discussing this topic...
</ignore>

 

[Mike Rotch]

Originally posted by TurboSmoke

...that would certainly be less painful that discussing this topic...

Then why enter the conversation at all?

 

[TurboSmoke]

Originally posted by Mike Rotch
Then why enter the conversation at all?

sorry mike....no offence buddy,

 

[Mike Rotch]

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Der Alta
An additional problem and and theory resides in the the blood spray pattern.

An excerpt from the book "The Zapruder Film: Reframing JFK's Assassination":
"The evidence on frames 337 and 338 of the Zapruder film could alter the course of American history. ... In fine color detail these two frames clearly show the back of President Kennedy's head undamaged, with his clothing intact and unbloodied. It proves that the shot that caused the president's massive head wound came from the front and that there was no shot in the back of the head, thus affirming two or more assassins conspired to kill him."

Actually, given the nature of entry and exit wounds, that pretty conclusively proves that the fatal shot must have come from the back. If the back of his head was blown out first, that would indicate that the shot came from the front. As it was, the bullet made a neat entry wound in the back, which would not be visible trough an 8mm camera from 80 feet away, and massive insult occured to the front of his head, caused by the pressure wave of the impact and the exiting bullet. In fact, in frames 313-315, it can clearly be seen that the two largest skull fragments are flying forward, left-to-right in the Zapruder film. This is fairly conclusive evidence that the killing shot was fired from behind the limousine.

 

[ebo#1]

some krazy male models were behind it.....lol

 

[Red Eye Racer]

"Back,.... and to the left....."

nuff said...

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
"Back,.... and to the left....."

nuff said...

Actually, no, it's not "nuff said". Are you familiar with how rocket engines work? Basically, you start an explosion that is contained on all sides except one. The force of the explosion pressure being vented in one direction drives the rocket itself in the opposite direction. That's why rockets work in space where there is no atmosphere to push against.

Now, consider JFK's head as a rocket engine. The bullet enters the back of his head with enough velocity to instantly puncture his skull without generating much in the way of forward motion, because the bullet simply punches right through at a very small point, like driving a nail through a piece of paper. However, it creates a huge wave of impact pressure inside the skull as the bullet and skull fragments travel into his head. The equivalent of an explosion inside his skull, as it has been described by autopsy reports. This huge amount of pressure is contained within the skull for milliseconds, until the bullet blows out the front of his head, creating a place of pressure release in the front right side.

As with a rocket motor, this directional pressure release drives the motor (or in this case, Kennedy's head) the opposite direction: ie, back and to the left.

Make sense?

 

[Klostrophobic]

I gather that there were a few shooters. None of them being Oswald.

 

[THE GAME]

Originally posted by Mike Rotch
Reading in the paper yesterday, various theories are abound about how many gunmen there where and about the "magic bullet".

Basically there are two theories.

a) Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter, and he was located at the Book Depository. His first shot ricocheted off a tree and entered the pavement way ahead of the motorcade, injuring a spectator. The second shot passed through JFK's neck, a non-fatal wound, entered the shoulder of the Senator seated in-front of JFK, and exiting the chest of the Senator. The third shot was the fatal one.

b) Lee Harvey and another gunman perpertrated the assassination. Lee Harvey had two shots, the first a miss, the second the same magic bullet. The second gunman delivered the fatal shot.


Problems with a) include the fact that it would have been impossible to reload the hunting rifle Harvey was using so quickly as to deliver 3 shots in under 12 seconds. The loading mechanism took only one bullet at a time.

Problems with b) no-one heard a shot from the "grass knoll" where the second gunman would have been.

Your views?

well you siad in part b that no one heard the shot from the grassy knoll. this is because the shot from the grassy knoll and a shot from behind kennedy went off at almost the same time.

 

[Macro]

Originally posted by THE GAME
well you siad in part b that no one heard the shot from the grassy knoll. this is because the shot from the grassy knoll and a shot from behind kennedy went off at almost the same time.

But in the Zapruder film you see him leaning over onto his wifes lap as a result of the Oswald shot to the shoulder, then comes the fatal shot to the head.

Are you saying that Oswald and the grassy knoll shooter both shot at the same time? Meaning Oswald reloaded?

 

[Solid Lifters]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Actually, no, it's not "nuff said". Are you familiar with how rocket engines work? Basically, you start an explosion that is contained on all sides except one. The force of the explosion pressure being vented in one direction drives the rocket itself in the opposite direction. That's why rockets work in space where there is no atmosphere to push against.

Now, consider JFK's head as a rocket engine. The bullet enters the back of his head with enough velocity to instantly puncture his skull without generating much in the way of forward motion, because the bullet simply punches right through at a very small point, like driving a nail through a piece of paper. However, it creates a huge wave of impact pressure inside the skull as the bullet and skull fragments travel into his head. The equivalent of an explosion inside his skull, as it has been described by autopsy reports. This huge amount of pressure is contained within the skull for milliseconds, until the bullet blows out the front of his head, creating a place of pressure release in the front right side.

As with a rocket motor, this directional pressure release drives the motor (or in this case, Kennedy's head) the opposite direction: ie, back and to the left.

Make sense?

Plus, the bullet entered through the lower part of the head. The way the tendons attach to the head makes the head move backwards when it is hit from the lower part. Try it yourself by hitting the lower part of your own head with your hand LIGHTLY. You must be relaxed inorder for it to work. If you hit higher up on the head, it moves forward. Hit lower, and it moves backwards.

The reason why Kennedy's body moved back was because the limo driver took off after the second shot, just as Kennedy was being hit with the third fatal shot. I beleive the limo was a Lincoln Continental convertable. I'm sure it had a very powerful V-8 engine incase the president needed a quick getaway. Look at the footage after the fatal shot and count in seconds and then look how fast the limo is pulling away. I'm sure th limo can reach a speed of 50MPH in just a few seconds. The acceleration started at the time Kennedy was fataly hit. The acceleration made Kennedy's body move backward.

 

[Klostrophobic]

One need not look any farther than the fact that Kennedy was being driven around in a CONVERTIBLE at slow speeds around low overpasses to see this assassination as something more involved than some fanatic going nutso and shooting the president. I believe I read somewhere about the bubble that usually covers the convertible being removed shortly before Kennedy arrived in Dallas. I think that's something significant in proving that Oswald didn't do it, but it was something more involved.

You just don't drive the President of the United States around closely packed streets with low overpasses at such slow speeds unless something fishy is going on.

 

[Macro]

Originally posted by Klostrophobic
I believe I read somewhere about the bubble that usually covers the convertible being removed shortly before Kennedy arrived in Dallas.

Yes, thats the 'fatal mistake' you hear about.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Originally posted by Macro
Yes, thats the 'fatal mistake' you hear about.

Plus, the limo was going much slower than the Secrete Service normally allows.

 

[Macro]

Originally posted by Solid Lifters
Plus, the limo was going much slower than the Secrete Service normally allows.

Hmm, the way it accelerated was impressive, especially coupled with the security guard sprinting up and his wife (Nancy? ) leaning over to him.

Powerful, very powerful.

 

[Danoff]

Anyone heard the SS agent accident theory on the JFK assassination? It's the first time I've heard an explanation for the whole thing that really seems to make sense.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/a...-secret-service-agent-fumbled-gun-f2D11634276

I know, based on the article I'm 4 years late to the party.