How The FIA Helped Develop Gran Turismo Sport

This is not part of a basic national B licence test. In fact the only driving requirement for a basic national B licence is to drive three laps of a racing circuit at around 50mph with an instructor, with no other cars on the track, as an assessment of whether you can follow a racing line.

There's also a theory test in a classroom, that consists of watching a 15 minute video and answering multiple choice questions on it.

That's all you need to do to get a national B licence.

I have quoted your response to my assertion that basic racecraft requires a heightened level of situational awareness, including knowing what's in your rear-vision mirror.

It seems you do not view this as "basic" racecraft. From your perspective basic racecraft consists of following a racing line with no other cars on the track. I can understand your point. Perhaps we should describe a heightened level of situational awareness as "advanced" racecraft? Regardless, Gran Turismo Sport should be encouraging habits that promote advanced racecraft when there are other participants on the track (a.k.a. "Sport Mode").

A rear-vision mirror can be left out of a hotlap simulator. But not Sport Mode.
 
This is not part of a basic national B licence test. In fact the only driving requirement for a basic national B licence is to drive three laps of a racing circuit at around 50mph with an instructor, with no other cars on the track, as an assessment of whether you can follow a racing line.

There's also a theory test in a classroom, that consists of watching a 15 minute video and answering multiple choice questions on it.

That's all you need to do to get a national B licence.

That's all that is required? Geez. I think I'm already qualified then lol You can drive on track with other cars, at speed, and no instructor here in the US. Just a valid regular drivers license and a 20 min classroom session where they pretty much just explain the yellow and black flags.. Granted, it's not proper "racing" per say, but you can still chase someone full out and I don't think you'll get black flagged unless you're being dangerous about it. It might as well be racing. Just don't tell the insurance companies that.

Looking at it now, it appears you need to attend an approved driving school (typically cost a few thousand $$$?) plus three race weekends afterwards and then you can get your full competition license for the SCCA. I imagine it's similar for NASA (not the space people).

I should photoshop my name on it and print me out one of these FIA licenses. Frame it up on my wall :lol:
 
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It seems you do not view this as "basic" racecraft. From your perspective basic racecraft consists of following a racing line with no other cars on the track.
Nope. From the perspective of the MSA's requirements for the basic, entry-level motorsports racing licence.
That's all that is required? Geez. I think I'm already qualified then lol
Yep. You just need the signature of a qualified MSA race instructor to say that you've done these things, and a medical declaration that you're probably not going to die of natural causes while driving, plus a £60 registration fee.
 
Comparing apples to oranges here I see.

My exact statement was concerning that real world and virtual world have totally different elements involved.

As someone with quite a few of real world laps on road course circuits in the real world over a period of about 17 years (on two wheels) I am fully aware of the differences in real world and virtual world racing.

Your original comment was:
"the goal has always been (for the aliens) to win in GT, PC , Asseto etc and be able to compete in reality"

My response was that virtual world only experience does not prepare a person to be an accomplished racer in the real world based on that experience alone. Then you want to talk about the success of racers that ALREADY HAD real world experience. Not the same conversation as someone who has never raced on a real track or real vehicle just raced in the virtual world.
Yep

I wish PD and FIA could bring more FIA tracks and cars. Would love some more WEC, Rally, DTM, blancpain GT, F1 really want La Sarthe, spa, sliverstone V8 Supercars. Most likely won’t get them. But maybe some might come let’s hope! Also some go kart tracks would be cool, and maybe even Drone races lol.
 
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Ok, PD and FIA. Cool.

So, where is racetracks Blancpain Series, WEC and DTM?

I keep seeing comments like this, putting FiA and PD together and asking why don't we have more real world tracks/cars etc.

Where are the rules saying an FiA associated game has to have real world tracks? Or real world cars? I really like most of the Vision GT Cars that are being used to fill out the roster of existing GT4/3 and LMP1 like categories. Being able to represent more manufacturers in more categories is a great thing I believe.

And likewise, some of PD's fictional tracks are some of the better tracks created in the past 2 decades, real or not. Dragon Trail and Lago Maggiore provide better racing than the likes of Marina Bay Street Circuit and Sochi. Heck, I prefer them to Suzuka and Interlagos, even though those two are some legendary circuits.

I think being a game, we can take advantage of that and create tracks that wouldn't be seen in real life due to location/logistics/safety. There can be high speed street tracks which wouldn't be there in real life due to the risk involved. I think that's very cool and something that can separate the real world from the game, which is something that should be (and has always been by PD) explored and utilised to the fullest. As long as there is a good mix of both real world and fantasy, which can help ground the fantasy in reality, then it can be interesting and believable. The Toyota FT1 may not work on it's own for example, but in a group of real world GT3 cars, in a category designed to balance them, it fits and looks the part.

I like what PD have done so far with the game and hope it continues forward.
 
I keep seeing comments like this, putting FiA and PD together and asking why don't we have more real world tracks/cars etc.

Where are the rules saying an FiA associated game has to have real world tracks? Or real world cars? I really like most of the Vision GT Cars that are being used to fill out the roster of existing GT4/3 and LMP1 like categories. Being able to represent more manufacturers in more categories is a great thing I believe.

And likewise, some of PD's fictional tracks are some of the better tracks created in the past 2 decades, real or not. Dragon Trail and Lago Maggiore provide better racing than the likes of Marina Bay Street Circuit and Sochi. Heck, I prefer them to Suzuka and Interlagos, even though those two are some legendary circuits.

I think being a game, we can take advantage of that and create tracks that wouldn't be seen in real life due to location/logistics/safety. There can be high speed street tracks which wouldn't be there in real life due to the risk involved. I think that's very cool and something that can separate the real world from the game, which is something that should be (and has always been by PD) explored and utilised to the fullest. As long as there is a good mix of both real world and fantasy, which can help ground the fantasy in reality, then it can be interesting and believable. The Toyota FT1 may not work on it's own for example, but in a group of real world GT3 cars, in a category designed to balance them, it fits and looks the part.

I like what PD have done so far with the game and hope it continues forward.

So it's all MARKETING.

What good is the brand having the FIA logo, the game does not have the main competitions circuits recognized by the FIA?

From what?

It's just a marketing move.

It is very blablabla, for little concrete action.

It is preferable not to have a stamp of the FIA, but to have several circuits of Tourism championships. I will not flatter the DP's mistakes.
 
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The FIA usually has no control over marketing/commercial rights, which is what you need for a series to be featured in a video game. DTM for instance is ran by DMSB and ITR, Blancpain is SRO and WEC is ACO, F1 is Liberty Media. Those are the bodies that control licensing, not the FIA.
Yes but the car used are under FIA regulations.
The fact FIA is "involved" in the game should help getting agreement with those organizations
 
Gran Turismo...
"The real Driving Simulator"
"GT Sport Lets You Earn An FIA License"
"a program that provides a real motorsports license"
"FIA Gran Turismo Championships"

make believe cars, and make believe tracks.

Harkens my youth watching Sesame Street... one of these things doesn't belong... one of these things is not like the other...

Back to virtual racers vs real world racers...
Ordoñez was one of the fastest online gamers in Spain, which won him a spot in the Academy Finals where he battled an international field of competitors during five days of intensive race training in real cars at the famous Silverstone circuit. After he was declared champion, Ordoñez participated in the Driver Development Program where his dedication and talents enabled him to obtain an international racing license.

So, before anything, all the competitors were vetted in real world cars... then, sent through training/development program...
The game did not make a race driver, a person with real word abilities was afforded an opportunity to showcase those abilities.
Don't confuse those.
So, what of all the other "field of competitors?"
How many competitors were there, and what happened to their real life driving careers?
That should tell you how much the game makes racing drivers... where are those people?

My best friend kills me on GT... much faster... I've taken him on closed course (asphalt) in my Mustang and (dirt) Jeep... he cannot believe what it takes and feels like to go fast in the real world.
Sesame Street...
 
Yes but the car used are under FIA regulations.
The fact FIA is "involved" in the game should help getting agreement with those organizations

Not really, the FIA has no say in how any of those series operate apart from the technical regulations.
 
That's all that is required? Geez. I think I'm already qualified then lol
Not exactly. You get told the racing line and braking points in the initial laps, then you have assessed laps when the instructor becomes a silent passenger. I did mine at Silverstone in an Exige; some extended ARDS courses include more tuition in a selection of cars, but I presume the test format is standard. The way it was put to me was that there wasn't a fixed test duration or number of laps. You'd get a pass on the practical assessment when the instructor was happy that, if you and he were in a race together, you wouldn't pose any danger. You need to maintain a good pace and any loss of control or departure from the track is an immediate fail (getting any questions wrong on the safety bit of the theory test is also a fail). One of the guys on my course was told by the instructor that he didn't like the way he approached corners, so he had a little longer in the car until he demonstrated he could be smoother.

The issue with the FIA Sport trophy is that it will obviously be won by the person who puts it a huge amount of time to become the best (as it should be), so the huge majority of people who play casually, will only ever be also-rans. That's fine with something like the old GT Academy, where you could sign up, have a bash, see how you compared to the best-of-the-best, maybe even try to get into the top 10, top 100, top 1000, whatever. After that, you could go back to the full GT game and do whatever online/offline/missions/FoS hillclimbs/lunar Rover activities floated your boat.

To keep the average player engaged for a longer period with a product that is only out to find the best is a difficult ask. It's like having a school sports day, where kids, adults and Olympic champions are all running against each other for one prize. Obviously, in real life, these competitions are grouped, ranked, put into divisions, and you enter at your age group or skill level to play for that prize with the hope of working your way up if you have the time or determination.

How could you do something in GT where an entrant would be potentially able to win a competition in a particular division against similarly ranked players, but not have the system gamed by much faster players just entering low, looking for an easy victory?

If there's no possible way of doing that, a commercial game like GT needs waaay more depth to ensure you maintain a customerbase outside of the elite players. You need accessible online races and you need offline events like a bigger GT League and all of the things that mean, actually the FIA competition is little more than a GT Academy replacement and definitely not the primary focus of a game with an incredible heritage and a a userbase who's loyalty should perhaps not be tested too hard.
 
100%

On average 50% of my FIA races are destroyed by someone else. I've just had a 1,000 point+ result on Bathurst reduced to a discard value by someone who blatantly rammed me off into the wall at the final tight corner before the main straight. Classic using the car in front as a brake. As if the punt wasn't enough, the game saw fit to inflict damage on every part of my car so I couldn't even minimise the loss. Podium position becomes back of the field. The person who rammed me off drove off and finished 4th. {Edit: This is a grid full of DR A SR S drivers, so should be a good standard}

This behaviour absolutely changes the shape of the race, the results, points awarded and therefore championship.

There is no steward, there is no retrospective action, there is no penalty system, sanction or warning applied to the cheats and it's somewhere in virtually every race. {Edit: I actually think it's possible to do a couple of blatant dirty moves in a 10 lap race and still get a blue SR at the end}

How can this be FIA approved? The people who've created this ****show certainly aren't playing it.
Of course I don't listen to myself and decided to do the Cup Races last night. This, after I make a post yesterday saying that I will not race in any Cup Races and that I will only race in the Daily Races in order to get my ranking up. Sure enough, the very same nonsense happens to me that we've been talking about :mad:.

I qualified for 14th but gained 5 positions in the race and found myself in 9th place. As I passed the erratic driving 8th place driver (Bluejay77), I pass him on the inside cleanly but he tries to cut the turn hitting me from the outside as I pass him. Sure enough, he is now chasing me like a bandit on the last lap and rear ends me off the track right before the final hairpin turn on the last lap of the race, causing me to finish 13th.

I saved the replay and I may even post the pass and the hit, but I'm going to have to make the file sizes smaller first.

The bottom line is, that this system to distinguish the good and the bad drivers is not working.
 
The Dr. and Sr. system should work right?
Then why as an average Dr.B driver am I ending up in races with Dr.S/A guys who are 3-4 seconds a lap faster?
And, why in an entire field of Sr.S drivers are there still punters/shovers/weavers/blockers?
Dr.;
On one hand I love it, racing the Dr.S guys... I save my replays and try and learn from them (but, my skills simply are not there to keep up, oh well). You'll never get faster racing with people slower than you, and that is true, I witnessed/gained from that in my mtn bike days. I learned-got faster more in 2 weekends riding downhill with semi-pro's than I did in 10 years riding with my buddies.
On the other hand, it would be nice to have a "chance" to compete for a win...
Sr.;
Unfortunately, because - people... with no meaningful consequences, well, they'll be the way they are being.

So, @Factor41 and @potvinsuks I agree with what both of you are saying.
For us casual gamers with jobs/families/responsibilities, the game needs some separation... Pro/Pro-Am/Semi-Pro/Elite/Sport/Weekend-Warrior/Novice...

I wish I knew how Sr. could be fixed.
 
Of course I don't listen to myself and decided to do the Cup Races last night. This, after I make a post yesterday saying that I will not race in any Cup Races and that I will only race in the Daily Races in order to get my ranking up. Sure enough, the very same nonsense happens to me that we've been talking about :mad:.

I qualified for 14th but gained 5 positions in the race and found myself in 9th place. As I passed the erratic driving 8th place driver (Bluejay77), I pass him on the inside cleanly but he tries to cut the turn hitting me from the outside as I pass him. Sure enough, he is now chasing me like a bandit on the last lap and rear ends me off the track right before the final hairpin turn on the last lap of the race, causing me to finish 13th.

I saved the replay and I may even post the pass and the hit, but I'm going to have to make the file sizes smaller first.

The bottom line is, that this system to distinguish the good and the bad drivers is not working.

Just have to stick with it. Tonight's Swift Race reduced from P4 to P14 by someone trying to make an overtake that was never on, even when I left room. That's 1500 points taken away in two races.......
 
To keep it short - If the FIA didn't contacted Polyphony, we would have a classic GT entry now.

Yep.

The Dr. and Sr. system should work right?
Then why as an average Dr.B driver am I ending up in races with Dr.S/A guys who are 3-4 seconds a lap faster?
Because the pool isn't big enough. The system relies on all the people who have the game playing it a lot and spending a lot of time online. Unfortunately, the people who buy GT aren't all hardcore and many have had their GT Academy fix, realised they're only ever going to run mid-pack and gone back to the main GT game. Except this time around, GT Academy is Sport mode, and the main GT game is Project Cars 2.
 
So it's all MARKETING.

What good is the brand having the FIA logo, the game does not have the main competitions circuits recognised by the FIA?

I guess with FIA being in partnership with GT Sport, then tracks like Dragons Trail and Lago Maggiore are recognised by the FIA and built to FIA standards. Along with GR3 being recognised as an official group, means cars like the FT1 are recognised as official cars of an FIA sanctioned series. Sounds as real as a virtual racing game can get to me.
 
I hope it's only translation issues but the more Kaz speaks the more full of it he seems or at the least completely disconnected from what is actually going on with his game, or reality, or both.

To 'not know what happened' to iconic tracks and then pretend the FIA came to him for inspiration as though the rest of the industry weren't already creating/providing online racing etc, geez.
 
Some developers love to speak of their dreams than what's currently going on. He definitely does it a lot, it can get old, but to assume anyone like this is delusional or doesn't know what's going on is a delusion in of itself.
 
So five years ago the FIA talked to PD because they thought they wanted to get involved with video games, and perhaps in 2018 they actually will be?

I'm sure they must be thrilled.

why is it that every time something somewhat ‘positive’ comes about about this game it’s always “I don’t believe this because PD”

Hmm, I wonder...

There's an old folk tale that you may have heard of. It's called "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". It's about a boy who lies regularly, and then wonders why people don't believe him when he sometimes tells the truth. I feel that it has some relevance to this situation.
 
Yes but the car used are under FIA regulations.
The fact FIA is "involved" in the game should help getting agreement with those organizations
Does the FIA have race series with cars in street configuration with no roll cage, no racing seats, no fire extinguishers or any kind of safety equipment aboard?
 
The only thing that should make us happy is that FIA recognized Simracing as a significant part of racing future. The fact that Gran Turismo was chosen for one of the platforms should not be something else than what your current platform is and if you will have to change to IRacing, PC2, Asseto or any other config.
There are a lot of common grounds between Simracing and IRL racing that prove to be useful in both. A lot of pro racers use Simracing for training, for sure the percentage is growing every year and there is a small number of active IRL pro racers that came from a 100% Simracing background that are proof for the real possibility, with a very expensive program, to "transform" a simracer into a world-class IRL racer. But, this doesn't mean that Simracing should be identical in every aspect possible to IRL racing. If a track is impossible to build IRL but in Simracing is very good then that is it, there are the tracks IRL and the ones in Simracing. I think it is pretty obvious that FIA is not looking for a replacement in Simracing for expensive IRL racing, they just probably calculated that Gran Turismo on PS4 is one of the options for starting the integration of eSports.
Simracers should not care what logo is displayed at the beginning of their training session just as IRL pro racers don't care what brand is the car or bike they get to race. All you care about as a racer is if your vehicle is competitive and nothing more because nothing else can influence your performance.
 
Do we have an actual timeline on when this game will be released as v1.0?

By that I mean we get what we paid for: a FIA license and FIA organized racing series.
 
Do we have an actual timeline on when this game will be released as v1.0?

By that I mean we get what we paid for: a FIA license and FIA organized racing series.

Don't hold your breath. It took two years for GT6 to get anywhere near what it was advertised as.
 
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