Hypermiling

[homeforsummer]

It's fairly common that I might need the car during the day, but honestly the main reason is my biological incompatibility with mornings. It's not uncommon for me to be in bed at 8:50, and be at my desk at 9:00. I'd love to turn it into a 5 mile cycle route each way each day, it's just not gonna happen!

Potentially needing your car during the day is a fair enough reason (though if you did cycle your commute, you could be back to your car in what, 10 minutes?), but a 120d seems like massive overkill if you live 1.3 miles from where you work. My current job is one of very few where I've lived more than about two miles from where I work and is correspondingly one of very few where I need to drive.

If you absolutely must have a 1-series to do 1.3 miles, then a diesel one has zero benefit to it when your commute takes maybe five minutes at the most. Even a lot of petrol cars won't have warmed up fully in that sort of time. Even so, 13mpg seems excessively poor. Is it a completely urban commute at low speed?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Potentially needing your car during the day is a fair enough reason (though if you did cycle your commute, you could be back to your car in what, 10 minutes?), but a 120d seems like massive overkill if you live 1.3 miles from where you work. My current job is one of very few where I've lived more than about two miles from where I work and is correspondingly one of very few where I need to drive.

If you absolutely must have a 1-series to do 1.3 miles, then a diesel one has zero benefit to it when your commute takes maybe five minutes at the most. Even a lot of petrol cars won't have warmed up fully in that sort of time. Even so, 13mpg seems excessively poor. Is it a completely urban commute at low speed?

You are right, it's not helped by the first and second gear nature of the route, or the traffic generated by the local school and day nursery. It's also mostly an uphill gradient in the mornings. Coming home, I can coast virtually 2/3rds of the way provided I don't have to stop at the roundabouts or right turns.

Cycling, especially in this weather would definitely be the preference, but as I say... it's not happening.

I like the 1-er though, it's not a new one, it's an E87, and the original purchase decision was based simply on not having had a 1 series before. On it's longer road trips (Knockhill, Zandvoort for instance and Spa for instance) it was surprisingly frugal.

 

[niky]

The bigger danger there is you probably don't get enough high speed high rpm miles to burn off the particulate filters.

2.0L, 6-speed auto. The throttle in this thing has a huge dead zone at the top of the pedal and it's hard for me to maintain constant speed without gradually speeding up, so I prefer to just keep it on cruise during long stretches.

Slope of the road? What slopes?

View attachment 579851

On a road like that, I'd be tempted to do a little EOC (probably illegal there, and not of much benefit in an automatic, which can't be bump started on the coast).

By the bye...

Cummins has a mega-neato paper on fuel economy:

https://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/Secrets of Better Fuel Economy_whitepaper.pdf

Includes lots of plain language explanations of technical factors affecting MPG, as well as lots of tips on how to improve it.

Do note, their tire pressure graph, with the baseline set at 100 psi, is for truck tires. For car tires, that baseline will likely be equivalent to 35 psi. Although truckers sometimes need to run as high as 125 psi to cope with heavy loads, don't do that on car tires! (most hypermilers run between 40-60 psi)

 

[homeforsummer]

(most hypermilers run between 40-60 psi)

Think I ran 45 on the Insight in the end. Felt sharper to drive than 40 but not squirmy under brakes like 50psi. Standard was something like 35 but it felt pretty unpleasant down there too - dead steering and quite a significant difference in rolling resistance. Ride quality barely seemed affected by the higher pressures, which surprised me - the Insight isn't a smooth-riding car to start with so being a little worse than already crap wasn't too big a burden.

I'd love to see how well you could make an Insight handle if you were able to fiddle with the suspension. According to an earlier post from myself in this thread it basically had no camber or toe and only 2deg of castor, so it's basically running perfectly square an upright. I reckon more castor would do wonders for steering feel (taking the EPAS fuse out already helped) and being able to throw some toe and camber at it would be great for response and grip too.

Still think I wouldn't have sold the Honda if I didn't think a battery replacement was impending. Irritatingly it's since been faultless for the guy who bought it off me since he does a long commute in it, which is basically what the car likes doing. He's averaging about 75-80mpg imperial. Still find those cars absolutely remarkable.

 

[W3H5]

I kept tyre pressures around 42. It was more than the tyre was rated to but it seemed to cope well and 42 is the answer to everything, so it has to work, right?

Question for you guys who have more tech knowledge than me - how would suspension stiffness affect the MPG? I've always assumed that a stiffer ride would retain more speed when coasting through corners but on the flip side I imagined that a softer ride would absorb more of the road bumps and retain more speed that way.

As it is my car is in stock settings and I'm not about to go messing with it but I have been curious about the suspension issue.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Question for you guys who have more tech knowledge than me - how would suspension stiffness affect the MPG? I've always assumed that a stiffer ride would retain more speed when coasting through corners but on the flip side I imagined that a softer ride would absorb more of the road bumps and retain more speed that way.

As it is my car is in stock settings and I'm not about to go messing with it but I have been curious about the suspension issue.

I've not really seen any discussion on the benefits of stiffer suspension, but many cars would benefit from a slight drop in ride height (Skoda Grsenlines have a 15mm drop to my knowledge). It'ssomething I've considered on the fabia.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Insight's suspension was fairly firm but I assumed that to be a result of Honda trying to make a relatively un-sporty car feel a bit sharper to drive. I do know people in the Insight community have been known to fit more progressive springs with no ill effects (and not a great deal more roll, because it's a fairly light, low car anyway).

I don't think stiff suspension would realise any great benefit. In any application it's generally better to let the car work with the surface it's most likely to be driven on, which is why rally cars have absurdly expensive dampers, race cars are set up very stiff indeed and most road cars are relatively soft. A car whose trajectory is constantly being affected by bumps and whose tyres aren't in contact with the road most efficiently using the engine's power won't be as economical as one whose chassis allows it to breathe with the road.

The possible exception could be if the roads around you are particularly smooth. Economical driving is almost the opposite of the perceived "going slowly everywhere", it's trying to reduce the need to go slowly as much as possible so inefficient acceleration isn't required. And on very smooth roads, firmer suspension may help increase cornering speeds, reducing the need to slow down and speed up.

With the Insight, it was a car that handled well enough that once you learned to trust the limited grip of the tyres, you could motor along reasonably quickly.

 

[CodeRedR51]

On a road like that, I'd be tempted to do a little EOC (probably illegal there, and not of much benefit in an automatic, which can't be bump started on the coast).

It's literally a straight shot with a 55 mph speed limit. Once I get out of my town I set the cruise at 60 and it stays there unless someone is going slower in front of me or farm equipment is crawling down the road. I get to a small town, coast down to 50 for a mile and then back up to 60.

Oh, and tires set at manufacture's recommended 33psi but I may try bumping them up a couple pounds to see if there is any effect. Though I am ditching these tires as soon as I can as they are cheap and noisy. Got my eye on some Pirelli's...

 

[W3H5]

It's literally a straight shot with a 55 mph speed limit. Once I get out of my town I set the cruise at 55 and it stays there unless someone is going slower in front of me or farm equipment is crawling down the road. I get to a small town, coast down to 50 for a mile and then back up to 55.

FTFY.

 

[CodeRedR51]

FTFY.

This is America, everyone does at least 5 over.

 

[Obelisk]

This is America, everyone does at least 5 over.

Up here, everyone does 15 over.

 

[W3H5]

This is America, everyone does at least 5 over.

It's not that I'm concerned about your "over speeding" but I've had posts edited in the past for mentioning driving beyond the laws stated.

Just trying to keep us all safe here on GTP.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Up here, everyone does 15 over.

That too.

It's not that I'm concerned about your "over speeding" but I've had posts edited in the past for mentioning driving beyond the laws stated.

Just trying to keep us all safe here on GTP.

Meh, not worried. 5 over is acceptable anywhere in this country pretty much.

 

[W3H5]

Meh, not worried. 5 over is acceptable anywhere in this country pretty much.

And drink driving is common place where I live but talking about it still gets me in trouble because it's beyond the law.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And drink driving is common place where I live but talking about it still gets me in trouble because it's beyond the law.

Well of course talking about drinking and driving will get you in trouble just about anywhere. If I was talking about doing 80 in a 55 then that's a felony and I wouldn't go around bragging about it. But there's no need for us to go on and on about this with 5 over. There are far worse things for cops to be worrying about than trolling forums looking for people doing 60 in a 55.

 

[W3H5]

There are far worse things for cops to be worrying about than trolling forums looking for people doing 60 in a 55.

It's not me that is concerned, I care little if you're doing 5 over or 50 over, Just from previous GTP experience (of which you've got years on me) talking about illegal activities, be it in the minor sense or not, has led edited posts and moderator intervention.

I'm not picking an argument at all. Just trying to keep you safe on the GTP. That's all. All in good faith.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Just from previous GTP experience (of which you've got years on me) talking about illegal activities, be it in the minor sense or not, has led edited posts and moderator intervention.

Never seen it. There's been plenty of liars saying they do stuff or own things that bet them banished from here, but I've never seen someone come on and brag about doing illegal things. Maybe I just don't get around much, but like I said, we're talking about doing 5 mph over the speed limit which is a very common thing. We've just wasted 8 posts debating over a non-issue.

 

[W3H5]

We've just wasted 8 posts debating over a non-issue.

Yes we have. Too much of our lives wasted.

 

[daan]

@R1600Turbo

• You will not use the forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal activities.

@W3HS is completely correct. 60 in a 55 is illegal and it's irrelevant if everyone does it or not.

It's literally a straight shot. Once I get out of my town I set the cruise at 60 and it stays there unless someone is going slower in front of me or farm equipment is crawling down the road. I get to a small town, coast down to 50 for a mile and then back up to 60.

Break the law all you want (we cant stop you,) just don't admit it in a public forum. 💡

 

[Grayfox]

Plus you dont know if the police will crack down on this 5mph over the limit thing.

In victoria they can fine you for doing 0km/h over the limit because for some stupid reason the police in australia have this notion that limit means some thing you must be below.

Blow 0.050 and you will get done for Low Range PCA, even though the BAC is 0.050.

If it were 0.049, than yeah you went over the limit but to be at the limit is not illegal as the definition of limit from what I know is something you can not exceed

 

[W3H5]

In victoria they can fine you for doing 0km/h over the limit because for some stupid reason the police in australia have this notion that limit means some thing you must be below.

That's exactly what the limit means.

For the benefit of fuel economy I stay well under the limit; in a 100kph limit I'll do 80kph, 80 limit I'll do 60, etc.

I drive like a granddad.

 

[Grayfox]

That's exactly what the limit means.

For the benefit of fuel economy I stay well under the limit; in a 100kph limit I'll do 80kph, 80 limit I'll do 60, etc.

I drive like a granddad.

More to hyper milling than driving slower or in a higher gear.
Sometimes being in a lower gear is better.

Seen this using my phone which is connected to a OBD-II dongle.

 

[CodeRedR51]

@R1600Turbo

• You will not use the forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal activities.

@W3HS is completely correct. 60 in a 55 is illegal and it's irrelevant if everyone does it or not.



Break the law all you want (we cant stop you,) just don't admit it in a public forum. 💡

I can't believe we're serious about this...

 

[daan]

I can't believe we're serious about this...

You can believe what you want, but you've been here long enough to know our rules are there for a reason and that they're there to be adhered to.

 

[Tornado]

...but the fast lane doesn't just give you permission to speed. A speed limit covers the whole road, not just the slow lane. If I'm doing 75mph in a 75 zone, I should be able to be in whatever lane I want.

If I'm doing the speed limit, then no I don't really see the point. I may be breaking the law by being in the lane, but then they are breaking the law by speeding.

 

[Obelisk]

Yeah... @R1600Turbo is not without hypocrisy. Using the passing lane for anything other than passing is illegal. That law, everyone seems to forget.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You can believe what you want, but you've been here long enough to know our rules are there for a reason and that they're there to be adhered to.

Okie dokie.

@Tornado What, did you dig that up from like 5 years ago? Notice I don't specify a number there so your point is moot. Though it's not surprising that you butt into a conversation of mine to try and make me look bad.

Anyway, continue your "hypermiling" thread without me.

Yeah... @R1600Turbo is not without hypocrisy. Using the passing lane for anything other than passing is illegal. That law, everyone seems to forget.

Eh, I still use it as long as nobody is behind me since I-10 northbound to Phoenix the left lane is smoother than the right lane. If someone comes up behind me I move over, then return as long as nobody is there.

 

[Obelisk]

Okie dokie.

@Tornado What, did you dig that up from like 5 years ago? Notice I don't specify a number there so your point is moot. Though it's not surprising that you butt into a conversation of mine to try and make me look bad.

Anyway, continue your "hypermiling" thread without me.


Eh, I still use it as long as nobody is behind me since I-10 northbound to Phoenix the left lane is smoother than the right lane. If someone comes up behind me I move over, then return as long as nobody is there.

Back to the thread: I'm headed out now. When I get to work, I'll edit this post with my average MPG.

EDIT: 39.4 MPG. Parking lots and Canton town center are screwing me up.

 

[LM7325]

If I drive very conservatively I can achieve 20mpg in the Silverado, 17 mpg seems to be my average. The GTO is
hovering around 19 average so far.

My commute sees a lot of red lights mixed with school traffic. Some mornings I leave an hour early to avoid much of it.

 

[Fastcarguy]

My new record for a little over 2 hours of driving. I kept it under 2500rpm most of the time. Any other tips?