I can't believe here is advertising Mazda 787b stealth now on eBay.
- Thread starter strik3out
- 90 comments
- 10,261 views
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- 188
- Louisville KY USA
- phade2blaq
I pre-ordered the game and received a stealth car code and someone wanted it bad enough to buy it from me and I sold it to them ! How is that wrong ? I paid for the game and as a bonus for pre-ordering I received the stealth car code so it's my understanding that I can do with it what I choose as long as I'm not stealing codes (cheating) or manufacturing (pirating) codes to sell !
- 447
I don't think there is anything wrong with it, I've been watching some myself on ebay and hopefully will be able to buy some. It's the same as selling iTunes cards or PSN cards or even selling 2nd hand games, the person is only selling something they don't want.
- 31
- misterhooper
- 31
- misterhooper
- 1,116
- Gassolini
I wouldn't be surprised is Sony is actually happy with it. It so happens that game content is being sold for real money, it's not the first time, it's not illegal, and the games subjected to it are legendary/cult games that have their myth-factor strengthened by things like this. Also, how is it different when a company sells DLC for real money (hint: it's exactly the same)? It's useless to whine about how other people use a game, whether selling content online, using exploits or eating porridge off the game discs. Take a deep breath and relax
DJ
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- 40
- djs2005
There seems to be two conversations in this thread:
1) 'Wow, did you see this ebay listing?'
&
2) Legality of selling that item.
What I find interesting is the second topic. I find it odd that a few responded so 'forcefully' to Ash. I am no law major but I think his interpretation of who owns the content and what we are allowed to do with it is accurate. I've always understood the same when I bought a CD for example. I do not own the music, only the right to listen to my copy until it is unusable. I don't think his interpretation is inaccurate (as proved by the RIAA) albeit I may not think breaking that condition as 'morally wrong'. As for being able to sell movies I believe there is a law that allows for people to sell a small quantity (like a garage sale) of movies without a legal deal with the content producer.
Besides, it's a moot point as I am sure Sony foresaw this happening. I can't see what could be bad for Sony if people start selling items on eBay. I am in Canada though & I know content law is not the same in the U.S. Anyone know better?
1) 'Wow, did you see this ebay listing?'
&
2) Legality of selling that item.
What I find interesting is the second topic. I find it odd that a few responded so 'forcefully' to Ash. I am no law major but I think his interpretation of who owns the content and what we are allowed to do with it is accurate. I've always understood the same when I bought a CD for example. I do not own the music, only the right to listen to my copy until it is unusable. I don't think his interpretation is inaccurate (as proved by the RIAA) albeit I may not think breaking that condition as 'morally wrong'. As for being able to sell movies I believe there is a law that allows for people to sell a small quantity (like a garage sale) of movies without a legal deal with the content producer.
Besides, it's a moot point as I am sure Sony foresaw this happening. I can't see what could be bad for Sony if people start selling items on eBay. I am in Canada though & I know content law is not the same in the U.S. Anyone know better?
- 4,323
I don't think you understand the difference bewteen actual game code (ie the programming that makes up the game and how it runs) and an access code to unlock content...
You are not selling anything you don't have a right to sell... have you ever seen a used game for sale? Guess what.... that is selling the license to use 1 copy of the game along with media that has all the game code on it. Do you know how illegal that is? It's not illegal at all.
This isn't even that... this is selling an unlock code... you are not selling any media with any game code on it.
You own the right to that access and are completely within your right to sell it on.
I have no idea where you get the idea that selling the bonus code is somehow illegal or even morally wrong.
Do you think people who bought BFBC2 and were never going to go online were doing something wrong if they sold their VIP codes?
Do you think it would be wrong if I got a DLC code gifted to me for DLC I don't want and sold it to someone? Would the person who gifted it to me be doing something wrong because they gave me something they don't own?
It's amazing what the corporate machine has sheepled people into believing... they have not only sheepled the consumer into believing that this whole "you don't own the game you bought" thing is ok because the EULA says so (which is about as infuriating as saying it's ok for me to rape your wife becuase you signed htis contract that says so) now you actually have those sheeple making up things to attack their fellow consumers about that aren't even true!
There seems to be two conversations in this thread:
1) 'Wow, did you see this ebay listing?'
&
2) Legality of selling that item.
What I find interesting is the second topic. I find it odd that a few responded so 'forcefully' to Ash. I am no law major but I think his interpretation of who owns the content and what we are allowed to do with it is accurate. I've always understood the same when I bought a CD for example. I do not own the music, only the right to listen to my copy until it is unusable. I don't think his interpretation is inaccurate (as proved by the RIAA) albeit I may not think breaking that condition as 'morally wrong'. As for being able to sell movies I believe there is a law that allows for people to sell a small quantity (like a garage sale) of movies without a legal deal with the content producer.
Besides, it's a moot point as I am sure Sony foresaw this happening. I can't see what could be bad for Sony if people start selling items on eBay. I am in Canada though & I know content law is not the same in the U.S. Anyone know better?
Not sure what the equivalent is in Canada but I would be very surprised if they don't have one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
Have you ever seen a used CD on sale? Does that strike you as illegal? You realize they have entire stores and industries around that. If reselling the license to use a game was illegal, boy would Gamestop be in hot water.
I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but this is the kind of ignorance that allows companies to take advantage of consumers over and over... rather than think "what is really right and reasonable" people are now just accepting and defending the drivel the companies force down our throats to get as much money as they can from us.
- 3,323
- GTP_Mark
- Mark T33
I can't see anything wrong with it. I know that people have sold lots of items including in game currency and rare items from World of Warcraft on eBay.
If someone pays over the odds for it then that is there problem. I don't see how it affects any third party.
If someone pays over the odds for it then that is there problem. I don't see how it affects any third party.
- 40
- djs2005
That wiki link was useful, here is what I noticed:
The first-sale doctrine as it relates to computer software is an area of legal confusion. Some software publishers claim in their End User License Agreements (EULA) that their software is licensed, not sold, thus the first-sale doctrine does not apply to their works.
court found the plaintiff's EULA, which prohibited resale, was binding on the defendants because "The defendants .. expressly consented to the terms of the EULA and Terms of Use by clicking 'I Agree' and 'Agree.
There is a lot of stuff in between and even people who have won against companies but the law is confusing to say the least with software. Also, how does all this affect down-loadable content?
I'd like to point out that I don't find companies claims 'acceptable' and I'd be lying if I said I follow the law concerning this subject (thank God for torrents), I am just arguing that from what I understand this is really how the law sees how copyrights are applied & enforced. I think what is reasonable is way closer to what the majority believes (and I think my actions prove that).
For the used CD thing, like I mentioned, I believe there is a provision in the law that allows a certain amount of content to be sold by an individual which makes it legal. Like 'fair use' only called something else.
Last but not least, I don't take your comments as a personal attack, just an interesting conversation while I am at work not playing GT5!
- 4,323
That wiki link was useful, here is what I noticed:
The first-sale doctrine as it relates to computer software is an area of legal confusion. Some software publishers claim in their End User License Agreements (EULA) that their software is licensed, not sold, thus the first-sale doctrine does not apply to their works.
court found the plaintiff's EULA, which prohibited resale, was binding on the defendants because "The defendants .. expressly consented to the terms of the EULA and Terms of Use by clicking 'I Agree' and 'Agree.
There is a lot of stuff in between and even people who have won against companies but the law is confusing to say the least with software. Also, how does all this affect down-loadable content?
I'd like to point out that I don't find companies claims 'acceptable' and I'd be lying if I said I follow the law concerning this subject (thank God for torrents), I am just arguing that from what I understand this is really how the law sees how copyrights are applied & enforced. I think what is reasonable is way closer to what the majority believes (and I think my actions prove that).
For the used CD thing, like I mentioned, I believe there is a provision in the law that allows a certain amount of content to be sold by an individual which makes it legal. Like 'fair use' only called something else.
Last but not least, I don't take your comments as a personal attack, just an interesting conversation while I am at work not playing GT5!
Yes they are pressing hard to make their EULAs overrule standing doctrine on consumer rights... which I think is very bad, but with people not taking the time to educate themselves and stand up for consumer rights (and instead taking joy in feeling superior telling others why their expectations of consumer rights are petty and wrong) I can totally see it going that way. EULA's keep slipping down the slope towards more and more detrimental towards the consumer and more nad more benfitial to the corporations. We have long since passed "fair" and are now just testing the waters of how much they scan screw us before we either actually stop buying or fight back.
Some of us live in the U.S. and don't have access to the Signature Edition, and in turn, have no access to any of those other stealth cars.
I didn't even know the cars form the Signature Edition would work with the U.S. version of the game. Who cares if people want to buy them. It's their own money.
I didn't even know the cars form the Signature Edition would work with the U.S. version of the game. Who cares if people want to buy them. It's their own money.
Well you own the license to the software and there is no law against selling software as long as you remove it from your computer. So in the sense of the car you aren't selling it and keeping it on your computer. Basically you aren't pirating it so I don't see the problem with it.
As far as people saying it isn't worth it, an economics class is in order. The market tells us what something is worth. Unless of course you have a government that feels the need to also be your mommy in which case they may have something to do with worth but that is a discussion for a different place.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Caveat emptor.
- 525
- alexlmx6 & GTP_AlexL
- alexlmx6
I think it's worth pointing out that reselling these codes is infact quite against the terms on the voucher. I'm not saying it's "morally wrong" to violate terms of service, but they do exist for a reason.
But, what tends to happen with these pre-order codes is that someone working in a game store will swipe a pile of them and sell them for profit. Is that wrong? I think so, very much so.
It's also not fair to people who actually went and pre-ordered the game, as it is supposed to be an exclusive treat for people who did so.
If it is just one person who legitimately pre-ordered and doesn't want the code, as far as I'm concerned he can do what he wants with it.
But, what tends to happen with these pre-order codes is that someone working in a game store will swipe a pile of them and sell them for profit. Is that wrong? I think so, very much so.
It's also not fair to people who actually went and pre-ordered the game, as it is supposed to be an exclusive treat for people who did so.
If it is just one person who legitimately pre-ordered and doesn't want the code, as far as I'm concerned he can do what he wants with it.
No. Other people may have turned it into that but its not what this thread is about. This thread was just about GTPlanet advertising stealth codes here that are for sale on eBay, obviously at outrageous ripoff prices, which some people will no doubt buy and will be ripped off in the process.
However, on the marketplace board , there is a thread saying if you rip someone off on a trade regarding in game cars that you were going to trade with each other by not keeping your end of the deal, and that don't cost real money, they will ban you from this site and report you to Sony to get you banned from PSN.
It's kinda like, wait, what? You don't mind pointing people to codes for sale on eBay for real world money at extortionate rip off prices but you do mind people not keeping their end of a deal concerning car trades in the game and will ban them from the site and report them to Sony to try and ban them from PSN???
Do you see what I mean?
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- SmoothHerb
So why do they force people to pre order stuff? And why are there cars on my disc that I can´t use (pre order ) And Why is it wrong to sell this dlc´S? No one has to bye it and some want to bye it.
The hole Ebay GT5 stuff runs out of control! I mean I sold my Fanatec Turbo for 260 and my G25 for 250! I wanted the apex book but it ended at 40! thats 10 less than the full game. Man, when they want to bye it why not?
Ah, anti-capitalist pigs. Yes, lets regulate what people can and cannot sell and the price at which they can sell it based on what we think is 'fair'. That's an experiment never to end badly.
If I want to sell my booger for 1 billion dollars on ebay I can and there's nothing you commies can do about it.
If anyone wants to claim selling codes, cars, guns, ammo, etc. etc. from games for real money is illegal then prove it instead of whining like tiny little socialist girls.
If I want to sell my booger for 1 billion dollars on ebay I can and there's nothing you commies can do about it.
If anyone wants to claim selling codes, cars, guns, ammo, etc. etc. from games for real money is illegal then prove it instead of whining like tiny little socialist girls.
- 4,040
- UK
- ReTyger
I don't agree with you on this. The ripping off in the marketplace refers to if someone promises a car for another and doesn't give it, or similar scenario. The only direct comparison here is if someone lists the codes on eBay, someone buys them but never gets them. If they do get them there is no "rip off", they have happily paid a lot of money for something that is exclusive and they want *that* much.
And as for it being unfair to those who got the codes for pre-ordering as a treat, they are no less exclusive, sure some of these might be from game store employees but i'm sure many are unused codes from members of the public. Note "unused", you can't duplicate them.
I got a stealth F1 and 787B by pre-ordering from Amazon UK. Had I known the codes would command such high prices I would probably not have used them. But do I begrudge those who had that foresight and are making a lot of money from them now? Not at all, all power to them
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