Thomas__633
(Banned)
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High RPM Turbo PP on an R18 is lower than medium RPM.
I found a bug with the Chaparral 2x. PP goes up.
- Thread starter interpunct
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- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
Ownership changing with cfw on GT6 is not new thing, so direct save editing is not working, but using somebody other save on cfw and modding there and after that resigning it back to original owner who then uses it on his ofw ps3. So it can be done.
- 29,726
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Largely due to the engine generating its peak torque at a lower rpm than race cars of similar performance with gas engines--torque is power and power factors into PP.
I can see a reduction in power making a car more capable on a track, and a well-thought-out PP system would likely include this as a factor, but the PP system as it is doesn't seem as though it would. I like to think it's intentional, but--with everything as it is--the whole thing seems buggy to me.
You also have to consider how the "car" uses its power. A reduction in power in a vehicle that transfers it to the ground would become more capable as it would do so more effectively with less abuse to the tires, but the Chaparral's power acts on the air surrounding the laser's cone and is moved forward via thrust rather than contact with the grip surface. A more logical increase in PP would be seen with additional weight, thus making braking more effective under lighter throttle load (with the laser and the shroud beneath it, less throttle means less downforce).
Anyway, I don't claim to be an authority on the topic and I'm only going by what seems logical to me. Take it with a grain of salt.
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- KiroKai
- KiroKai
His wording is a bit weird, but I'm pretty sure that Buick and the Chevelle reach those power figures with normal upgrades, and they are rated low in PP. Also, note that's GT5's car settings, not GT6 (interpunct and you seem to talk about GT6 now).
Also, it's not true that no changes at all were made to the PP system between GT5 and GT6. One of the most notable things is that downforce levels don't affect PP anymore. The base PP for various cars have also been adjusted.
Thomas__633
(Banned)
- 1,203
- Australia
PP has been adjusted between GT6 1.00 and 1.19 at some point as well, before 1.04 if my memory is correct
- 2,810
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- stigsdaddy
I reckon it's just a bug. Some people saying it's because the car is easier to drive, but I don't think the pp system is that complex. It doesn't up the pp when you add downforce, which makes the car faster and easier to drive, and it doesn't up the pp when you put on stickier tyres either. It's just a bug in a rubbish performance index system. Not like it's the only bug in the tuning lol.
- 11,208
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- eran0004
What's wrong with the torque?
Stickier tyres and downforce settings (not downforce, period) aren't included in the PP system, that's why the PP settings doesn't go up or down depending on them. Power and weight are included, and exactly how they interact we don't know. The fact that nothing happens with the PP when you add stickier tyres doesn't indicate that power and weight influence can't be modelled with handling in mind.
The PP rating does change when you alter the weight balance of a car, so at some level its influence on handling is included in the system.
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LeGeNd-1
Premium
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Downforce makes you faster in corners, but it slows you down the straights, so I think that's why PD removed it from the calculation in GT6 (although for most tracks max downforce ends up being faster anyway). And as eran0004 said, intrinsic body downforce (not the numbers you can change in settings) still plays a part in PP.
Tires have never been included, even in GT5P or GT5. I think it's because people will enter the event with the stickiest tyre possible anyway, so it's better to restrict it separately. Also, how do you quantify rain tyres? In the dry it's slower than slicks, but in the wet it's faster. Too difficult to put into the calculations (which can change in the middle of a race
).I don't think the PP is bugged. Keep in mind we are only talking 2-3PP rise here, before the PP falls again as you drop the power further. For some cars having 10-20hp down is genuinely better for drivability and track time (and yes I have tested this with the Buick Special and Toyota 7).
There's nothing obviously wrong with it, it just doesn't translate well into the driving sensation. Easiest to point out is to compare BMW 120i and 120d. The diesel should accelerate faster than the petrol version because of the extra torque, but you don't feel that torque "kick" in the game.
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- stigsdaddy
Downforce makes you faster in corners, but it slows you down the straights, so I think that's why PD removed it from the calculation in GT6 (although for most tracks max downforce ends up being faster anyway). And as eran0004 said, intrinsic body downforce (not the numbers you can change in settings) still plays a part in PP.
Tires have never been included, even in GT5P or GT5. I think it's because people will enter the event with the stickiest tyre possible anyway, so it's better to restrict it separately. Also, how do you quantify rain tyres? In the dry it's slower than slicks, but in the wet it's faster. Too difficult to put into the calculations (which can change in the middle of a race
I don't think the PP is bugged. Keep in mind we are only talking 2-3PP rise here, before the PP falls again as you drop the power further. For some cars having 10-20hp down is genuinely better for drivability and track time (and yes I have tested this with the Buick Special and Toyota 7).
There's nothing obviously wrong with it, it just doesn't translate well into the driving sensation. Easiest to point out is to compare BMW 120i and 120d. The diesel should accelerate faster than the petrol version because of the extra torque, but you don't feel that torque "kick" in the game.
The point wasn't that it was in gt5 or not. People are saying it's not a bug because the pp system is complex enough to calculate if there is too much power for the car to be easily drivable or not. If it was so complex, surely it would take into account downforce or tyre grade, which it doesn't. Other things that make the cars faster and or easier to drive are customisable gearbox, triple plate clutch, carbon tailshaft, fully adjustable suspension, and racing brakes. None of which alters the pp of a car when you fit them.
You're giving the pp system way to much credit. It's very basic. I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe it's bugged, since there aren't many parts of the tuning in GT6 that isn't bugged.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
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- GTP_LeGeNd-1
The point wasn't that it was in gt5 or not. People are saying it's not a bug because the pp system is complex enough to calculate if there is too much power for the car to be easily drivable or not. If it was so complex, surely it would take into account downforce or tyre grade, which it doesn't. Other things that make the cars faster and or easier to drive are customisable gearbox, triple plate clutch, carbon tailshaft, fully adjustable suspension, and racing brakes. None of which alters the pp of a car when you fit them.
You're giving the pp system way to much credit. It's very basic. I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe it's bugged, since there aren't many parts of the tuning in GT6 that isn't bugged.
All of the things you mentioned (DF, tyres, gearbox, suspension, brakes) are helpful only if you tune them right. They can easily make the car handle worse. So yes, in a sense you are right that the PP system is not complex enough to handle all these variables. But as of right now we know that there are 4 factors that affects PP in GT6 (power, shape of power curve, weight, weight distribution). I was merely trying to explain why PP goes up for some cars when you reduce power. It could be a bug, but personally I have felt that for some cars it IS easier (and faster laptime wise) to drive with slightly less power.
I'm not defending the PP system, because it's definitely not perfect and there are cars that break it completely. Also the idea of boiling down something as complex as car performance to a single number is impossible in my book. Might as well just use power/weight ratio. But IMHO this feature of the PP system is not a bug. The camber is bugged. The high speed aero is bugged. Ride height possibly bugged. But not this particular feature of PP. My 2 cents.
But each to their own opinion. If you think it's a bug, let's agree to disagree 👍
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- stigsdaddy
If this wasn't a bug it would do it with every car once the power was too much, but most cars you can overpower and the pp system doesn't go down. I used to build crazy burnout cars when I played GT6, and none of those were remotely driveable with the amount of power they had, which made them great burnout cars as they were just mental when you floored the throttle, but the pp didn't go down.
The chapparall 2x isn't remotely close to undriveable at max power, so it doesn't make sense that the pp system considers it hard to drive at higher power levels. It doesn't lower the pp on the old muscle cars at max power, which are ridiculously hard to control.
Anyway if you want to believe it's not bugged that's fine. I was just pointing out it's obviously not that complex, and it'd be par for the course for it to have bugs, since the rest of the tuning is littered with bugs.
The chapparall 2x isn't remotely close to undriveable at max power, so it doesn't make sense that the pp system considers it hard to drive at higher power levels. It doesn't lower the pp on the old muscle cars at max power, which are ridiculously hard to control.
Anyway if you want to believe it's not bugged that's fine. I was just pointing out it's obviously not that complex, and it'd be par for the course for it to have bugs, since the rest of the tuning is littered with bugs.
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Thomas__633
(Banned)
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- Australia
Tyres aren't part of the PP for a REASON. They are not part of the car. And tuning doesn't affect car PP in all games, in FM5/FH2 for example.
- 11,208
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- eran0004
It should accelerate faster because it has more power than the petrol car. Torque doesn't mean anything until you specify the speed at which it occurs, and when we do that we get the power. The diesel car is heavier though, by about 5%, but it still has better acceleration. Here are my times for 0-100 km/h:
120i : 10.6 seconds
120d: 9.0 seconds
