I like the rubber banding in this game

[SiNiST3R]

Toronado


A few lines of code, is a extream understatement, Whats FALSE is

"Most of the ingredients of the traditional GT mode is already in GT PSP"

For Career mode NO they are NOT! If you think they are... What are they?

Also How Big is the GT4 game file size vs the GTPSP when both have similer car and track numbers. Wouldnt that suggest that the difference in size is somewhat atributed to the things GT PSP doesnt have that GT4 does, like a Career mode.......

But reguardless there is enough space on the UMD to fit a bit more (would it be enough is another question). But thats more of a side point speaking to the issue at hand, more about infastructure. Moving on...

Why talk about PS2 games that can load races from DVD's, thats not a good comparo....

As for UMD Speed....

How long in GT PSP does it take to load a race????????

Pretty damn loooooooooong.

How fast is a DVD vs a UMD??????? You really think the UMD is sending the info faster then a DVD on a PS2?? Yeah Right!

DVD's are WAY faster then UMD's and can trasfer data at a fast enough rate that we dont have to wait 10 minuts for a race to load on a PS2. A UMD trasfering the same amount of data would take FOREVER.

Lets go have a smoke break while my race loads.......

AND does the PS2 Flash really have enough to cater to all this at 60fps, with no slow down, or screen shutters? GT4 can't do it. In GT4 there are allot of issues with rendering multiple cars and AI, thats what causes the screen to shutter and frame rate to drop in GT4. I havn't once seen the frame rate drop in GT PSP yet.... Hmmm, maybe less is more, more stable. So yeah, its very similer to another system that is also limited. im glad they found a way to make it work...

Easier said then done. Also easier for some games then others depending on the 3d engine being used aswell as MANY other factors... GT4 pretty much gets all you can out of the PS2 while not every game for the system does...

And lets not forget the PS2 isnt its own display unit, the PSP still has to use its abilities to power the screen, something the PS2 relies on a TV to do it.

Also the PSP does all this running off a battery, not a wall plug.

Ohh, Damn, my race still hasnt loaded... Lets go for another smoke, its going to be a while.....

What was that?????

Inside the PSP's capabilities they do a damn, good job.


P.S Did you notice any RBing in the Driver Challenges?

 

[Tornado]

A few lines of code, is a extream understatement, Whats FALSE is

"Most of the ingredients of the traditional GT mode is already in GT PSP"

For Career mode NO they are NOT! If you think they are... What are they?

The game already has all of the cars and all of the tracks. That is what takes most of the room. And it already awards credits for race wins and allows you to buy cars. The main difference between the game as it is now and the traditional GT mode is that GT mode has a defined structure in its events and GT:M does not.

As for UMD Speed....

How long in GT PSP does it take to load a race????????

Pretty damn loooooooooong.

How fast is a DVD vs a UMD???????

DVD's are WAY faster then UMD's and can trasfer data at a fast enough rate that we dont have to wait 10 minuts for a race to load on a PS2. A UMD trasfering the same amount of data would take FOREVER.

This is irrelevant because the AI data wouldn't be constantly streamed from the disc.

AND does the PS2 Flash really have enough to cater to all this at 60fps, with no slow down, or screen shutters?

GT4 can't there are allot of issues with rendering multiple cars and AI, thats what causes the screen to shutter and frame rate to drop in GT4.

GT4 is a poor example of what you are trying to say.
For example, GT4 was programmed in a way that allowed it to display in HD (being the only PS2 game that did so), so that might very well be the reasoning behind GT's framerate problems (and I'm pretty sure it was proven to be the cause of the screen shudders).
Also, the AI in GT4 is practically the worst I've ever seen; and even though GT3 did show rubber-banding, the AI in that game was much better on a technical level than it was in GT4 (compare how the AI handles FF cars in between the two games, for example).
Because of that, I hardly think it is fair to say the PS2 (and therefore the PSP) aren't capable of what people are complaining about just because GT4 didn't do it right.

 

[SiNiST3R]

The game already has all of the cars and all of the tracks. That is what takes most of the room. And it already awards credits for race wins and allows you to buy cars. The main difference between the game as it is now and the traditional GT mode is that GT mode has a defined structure in its events and GT:M does not.

I disagree, The GT4 game file is much larger then the GT PSP file, I would believe the difference since they have most of the same cars and tracks is atributed to the things GT4 has that GT PSP doesnt, like a career mode..

The GT4.VOL File alone is 2.29gig...

However thats still besides the point.

This is irrelevant because the AI data wouldn't be constantly streamed from the disc.

Wouldnt it be relevant in LOAD times before the race? My point being, loading races would take longer if loading as mush as is loaded from a DVD to load a race in GT4.

GT4 is a poor example of what you are trying to say.
For example, GT4 was programmed in a way that allowed it to display in HD (being the only PS2 game that did so), so that might very well be the reasoning behind GT's framerate problems (and I'm pretty sure it was proven to be the cause of the screen shudders).

I see what your saying..... I still think GT PSP is running at the PSP's limits, that is my opinion though, not a fact, but at the rate my battery goes down while playing it. It seams more and more plauseable.

Me I think the MOST deciding factor was Dev time, & pushing back a Port too long would make the game irrelevant. I feel PD decided to make the game work with GT5 instead, as a way to use GT5 as the "Career" mode, and GT PSP as a fix and means of gainging cars while on the Go!

Ill leave it at that.

 

[Tornado]

I disagree, The GT4 game file is much larger then the GT PSP file, I would believe the difference since they have most of the same cars and tracks is atributed to the things GT4 has that GT PSP doesnt, like a career mode..

GT:M also has lower quality car models and textures as I understand it, and PSP games are always considerably smaller than the equivalent console game (compare the 1.3 GB PSP Vice City Stories with the 3.9 GB console version). GT:M also probably uses compression techniques that the DVD-9 GT4 didn't bother with. There is no logical reason that a Career mode in GT:M would take up anywhere near 800 MB. It just doesn't make sense.

Wouldnt it be relevant in LOAD times before the race? My point being, loading races would take longer if loading as mush as is loaded from a DVD to load a race in GT4.

AI implementation is lines of code (at least it is in every game I've ever taken apart). Code takes minuscule amounts of time compared to loading stuff like the graphics assets.

Me I think the MOST deciding factor was Dev time, & pushing back a Port too long would make the game irrelevant.

I'd agree that that is probably the case.

 

[scoobyonline200]

I've seen this happen at the Nurburgring... My girlfriend was running a race class A, in a Pagani Zonda Race Car (Her favorite) and as she approached the carousel, she over cooked it a bit and smacked right into the wall.. the 2nd place car was about 3 seconds behind her at the time, but when she crashed, the dam car came out of nowhere and passed her. Along with the 3rd place car.. she then had a hard time through the rest of the lap catching up... before the slip up they were easily passed... but after the shunt she had a hard time... as if they gained speed and kept up ahead of her..... It was a bit frustrating for her.. but funny for me hahaha.....


but then again... when we play versus... she's hard to beat..

 

[SHAUN09]

I think the rubber banding effect makes the whole experience harder. I don't really see much of a problem with it

 

[gator of kana]

Well as the very first post said, I really do like the rubber band effect. It's not bad enough where you can't pass them at all, but if you're not making any mistakes, you should stay in first place the entire way.

 

[CannibalCorpse]

Hail to all. I´ve just registered now, even though I follow this site for quite some time.

To all the GT Planet team, keep up the good work and thanks.

Now, I just had to come here and talk about this major disappointment that GT PSP as become.
As soon I saw this thread confirming what has been pis...irritating me off since the beginning, I knew I was not being paranoid or something.

My question is: What´s the point in playing a racing game that is faking results?

I mean, I don´t want it to be easy, competitive, yes, I do like that, but I just want it to be true to what GT is all about: Real physics.

If this is the portable Real Driving Simulator, it should behave like one. Like GT, GT II, GT III, etc.

I´m not the best GT Driver in the world, and I don´t want to, I just love this game since GT come to life. I´ve been waiting since I bought my PSP to have a little bit of GT to take wherever I go so that I can be in a world far, far away, in Racing Land.

And this GT PSP does not deliver me that. Not like this.

This "rubber thing", and other little things that would be off-topic on this thread, in the game have shown me that PD has made an unfinished job.

The only real interest I´ve found were the challenges. And that´s too little for 40€.

I´ve paid that same amount of money for Toca Race Driver 2 and still now I have an immense fun with that game. Because it´s more complete.

And that´s the difference between a game and an unfinished product.

Before someone starts giving me heat about this, I do have to say that it does break my heart having to talk badly about any GT. But I like to be objective and true when talking about a game. And what I´ve wrote is the truth.

 

[scoobyonline200]

So I've finally understood the point of the Rubber Banding in this game. it keeps you on your toes all the time. For the nurburgring example. At first when I was doing 7 minute laps in my car, the AI would be all over me and pass whenever I mess up even a little bit.

But, after much practice and harassment by the cheating AI, I've now gotten a lot better at the Nurbrugring than I ever was. Whereas before I would relax and slack off after I've left the AI in the dust, now I am forced to be familiar with the later sections of the track as well. It's a way for the game to force you to get better. S-rank in this game is basically training mode in preparation for GT5.

Spoiler

It's so blatant and obnoxious. If you do a 7'20 lap of the nurburgring, the AI will do 7'21, but when you do a 6'57 of the ring, the AI will do a 6'59. This all on A difficulty with the same RX-7 LM Race Car. No matter how well you drive, you won't be able to lose the AI.

When you drive fast, magically the AI defy the laws of gravity and take turns at twice the speed a car should and still go through the perfect racing line, when they go off road, they lose no traction and get right back on the track like nothing happened and then get a mighty burst of power to catch up to you in a straight even though you're using the same cars and you're deliberately not giving them any slip stream.

The person at PD needs to remember that this is a sim racer, not an arcade racer. If I drive well, I want to leave the AI well behind, I don't care for the computer that always sticks to me by cheating and pass if I even stray 1 inch onto the grass. It's especially frustrating when you do a perfect lap of the ring, and at the very end, you go onto the grass, and the AI pass right by, proving all your efforts useless, and you know they did it because they were granted the power of god by PD. This is worse than having rewind in game. If GT5 has this, I'll be very disappointed. What's the point of having amazing physics if only 1 driver on the whole track obeys them?

PD needs to release an update and fix this non-sense

spoiler text??? its a GT game.... what is there to spoil?

 

[GTCr@zyPSP]

Ive come to the conclusion, Bad drivers don't like the RB when good drivers either like it or don't care because We are always in front reguradless.

EVERYTHING people have complained about is a NON ISSUE if you have the skill. I don't get passed by the AI so its something I don't care about.

So if you don't like the RB, then get better, practice more, it SHOULD be EASY to stay in the lead the whole race.

 

[FoolKiller]

Ive come to the conclusion, Bad drivers don't like the RB when good drivers either like it or don't care because We are always in front reguradless.

I hope you can back up this conclusion.

A properly designed game should have the toughest difficulty mean that you won't be winning every race because the AI is actually competing, not because you fly past them at the start of the race and then they sit just a couple of seconds behind you waiting for you to make a mistake.

Good AI would mean that even those as good as you claim to be would struggle to win consistently on the hardest difficulty. Instead only people who make a big mistake lose.

Even people who are really good should recognize that it is a poor replacement for good AI.

 

[SavageEvil]

PD just decided to make the AI keep pace with you no matter what. Previous GT's the AI would get left and you would win by ridiculous margins. PSP isn't a home console with gobs of power to process intense calculations and look this good. Take the game for what it is, basically an easy way to have good cars to start GT5 with, I can care less about the AI, they are just sparring buddies to me. 4 Car fields can get lonely really fast if you pull away and no car drives well enough to challenge you, the AI does a haphazard job when they are out front, some cars though tend to drive very well and leave the others in the dust. I had a race where the Spirit R left the Bathhurst R and Skyline in the dust. I was in 4th place and watched as the leader was 15 secs ahead. I started the race 10 seconds late, and by the time i caught up to those bumbline idiots, the Spirit R was too far ahead to catch.
Biggest gripe is the PSP has no analogue buttons, so modulating the brake and accelerator is a game of tap tap, t..t..tap to tackle corners, not fun especially in high powered racers.

 

[thefraggle]

Ok guys, sorry for the dull question but...........
what do you mean by "rubberbanding"?

 

[peterjford]

Ok guys, sorry for the dull question but...........
what do you mean by "rubberbanding"?

This is when the game keeps the AI cars close to you. Think of all the cars connect to each other by rubberbands. As a car pulls away from the other cars (usually you pulling away from the AI) this rubberband either pulls back on the leading car, or pulls the other cars toward the leading car. There are different ways it is implemented. The leading car could loose power or grip. The trailing cars could gain power or grip. A combination of those, or even just the trailing cars magically keep up with the leader.

I personally don't like it in a simulation. I would never want to win a race using it, and I hate loosing a race because of it.

I am using GT PSP as something to pass the time when I have a few minutes of free time away from a computer and as a way to collect my favorite cars for GT5. So it doesn't really bother me too much as long as it is not in GT5 or there is a way to disable it.

 

[bowie]

There are different ways it is implemented. The leading car could loose power or grip. The trailing cars could gain power or grip. A combination of those, or even just the trailing cars magically keep up with the leader.

I personally don't like it in a simulation. I would never want to win a race using it, and I hate loosing a race because of it.

I was wondering though, how would people feel if rubber banding was implemented not by cheating with physics but by having the driver AI being a better driver (not making mistakes, following a better line, ...)?

 

[peterjford]

As fast as they catch up to you, and how 3 very different cars will all be together in a pack behind you, make me doubt this.

 

[FoolKiller]

I was wondering though, how would people feel if rubber banding was implemented not by cheating with physics but by having the driver AI being a better driver (not making mistakes, following a better line, ...)?

That would not be rubber banding, that would be proper AI. That is what I want. Currently, I am basically driving in the lead and not worrying about the AI so long as I don't make any mistakes. Unless I screw up or do it on purpose I will not have a close race. If the AI did what you described it would be a close race the entire time because the AI will inevitably be performing much better and we would even presumably trade the lead a few times.

I don't want it to be unrealistically perfect so that it is impossible for any human to win, but it should be competitive enough to be a challenge whether you make a big mistake or not.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Like I said in my previous posts in this thread, it's rather unfortunate that GTPSP uses RBE to keep the races competitive, and I'd rather have good, natural AI, but lately I've been in races where the RBE fails to do its job (even in S Class). This is only when either me or the AI makes a HUGE mistake, and got left behind by quite a large margin. When I crash, I can't catch up to the AI and the gap stays constant to the finish. When the AI crash, the same things happens, but in opposite. When we have a clean race, it's usually a very close and tense race all the way from start to finish. In that respect, it's very similar to real life racing I think. So in a way, I guess RBE kinda works if you play the game the way it's meant to.

The only time RBE becomes blatant and annoying is at the Test Course. You can take the inside line in corners (the AI will always take the outside) and put 1.5 seconds between you and the AI at the exit, but at the next straight the AI will magically catch up to your tail (this is with exact same cars and no drafting). What's even more wrong is that the AI is shortening the gap, but if you look at their speedometer they're clearly going slower than you are!

 

[Raagentreg]

I decided to check this out. I was doing the Test Course with the Veyron on single player race. I was up against 3 TVR Cerbera Speed 12's. On the start I would gain almost 2 seconds on the Speed 12's (even at S Rank). By the first corner they were catching me and were as close as .2 of a second at Rank S on the back straight.

On a flying Time Trial lap the Veyron could manage sub 1:40 topping out at 246 mph. The best the Speed 12 could do was over 7.5 seconds behind topping out at about 222 mph.

I really want to try a Rank S Race (or Ad Hoc Race with a co-operative party) against a Veyron to see if slipstreaming can gain the extra 20 mph!

I've done it on S rank, and its so very easy, I don't care, just never let off the power

But someone had pictures of LMP cars, where one overtook the other at 30kph LESS than the other one its in a thread here somewhere.

I do see the problem, but tbh I don't care - I don't really notice the effect, My theory is that they have all driver aids turned on, TCS to 5, standard physics, ASM, etc... so they go on the grass and can get off easily.

Slate me all you want, but that's how I see it and it just makes me feel better, after beating the cheaters, maybe it will make you guys feel better about the ridiculous cheating, if you try it? (sorry for any arrogance or impoliteness in that final statement)

 

[quarky]

On the Test Course, S Rank, as the Veyron, you can let the other Veyron's build up a seven second lead on the first lap, and still catch them on the 2nd lap. I had a race where I was only racing the TVR's, and the same thing happens. Yet if you are ahead, you cannot get a seven second lead in a lap.

I rarely do races more than two laps so it doesn't bother me, but it does means that doing a five or ten lap race on S rank is kind of pointless. No matter how good you are, it will come down to the last few corners, and that isn't right.

Still, having said that, I can see the reasoning behind it and it doesn't spoil my enjoyment 95% of the time (because I tend to do low laps, and I spend a lot of time in time trials). Without RBE'ing, the game could be much worse. That is not an acceptable answer to the purist, but it probably is to most.