I regret buying this game...

[JDMKING13]

Sure, some people have issues but to put PD (and any other company) to blame because some can’t hold on to their money is a bit ridiculous to be honest. No self control? No responsibility? Perhaps they should look into getting some kind of supervisor or trustee if they can’t handle money.

I said the same thing like when are we going to hold people to higher standards? So easy to blame others…

 

[RedRockValley]

I think it's perfectly fair to blame the company which is asking people to let go of significant amounts of their money for a simple number change in a video game. The company is trying to make that happen. It isn't okay just because only the most vulnerable people are hurt by it.

Exactly.

It's like putting a person addicted to fast food in a room full of fast food. You never tell them that they have to eat the fast food, but regardless they do it anyway, because the option was there, right in front of their face.

There is an element of personal responsibility, as is with recovering from any addiction, but ultimately it's up to Sony and PD to be the responsible ones and not include MTX in the first place (or at the very least, increase payouts and add more events.)

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I said the same thing like when are we going to hold people to higher standards? So easy to blame others…

As I've already stated, the whales are responsible too for their behavior, but we can't just ignore the well documented psychological tricks in use by game companies to encourage and pressure the whales.

 

[Veinz]

Which in itself is kinda amusing because Gran Turismo is part of the reason they go for that kinda money!

It’s pretty cool how this game has influenced car culture in a way. I would be buying these up too if I was rich.

 

[NAXEHT]

So, pushing this to the extreme for a second, someone addicted to taking hard core drugs - it's all their fault?

Not entirely. Things can of course happen where it’s not all your fault but there seems to be a trend where personal responsibility is completely gone these days — that’s what I’m opposed to.

I think it's perfectly fair to blame the company which is asking people to let go of significant amounts of their money for a simple number change in a video game. The company is trying to make that happen. It isn't okay just because only the most vulnerable people are hurt by it.

The option is there and yeah, it’s more “in your face” than it was in GT Sport. I don’t like it but also, it’s not even close to worth its price.

Are we also of the opinion that all sports betting and traditional luck/lotto games are inherently bad? Perhaps we just have fundamentally different opinions and expectations on our fellow human beings.

 

[evldave333]

The problem I have with the game is there is very little new added to it, I have muscle memory for all the tracks including the returning classics... I have no desire to play any aspect or rallying / online or the parts of the game that involve bad tyres (SH/Comfort range) so this leaves a very anaemic game for me. Gonna shelve it and play something else for a few months and then hopefully there will be something fresh to engage with after updates. I wanted to be engrossed like GT of old, but its gonna be 10min dip game, especially now the paltry career is in the rear view mirror.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Are we also of the opinion that all sports betting and traditional luck/lotto games are inherently bad?

A little $20 bet with some buddies over the sportsball game? Nah, that's fine. Larger scales, companies that profit off this stuff? Absolutely.

The option is there and yeah, it’s more “in your face” than it was in GT Sport. I don’t like it but also, it’s not even close to worth its price.

All the little cosmetics in games that people still spend thousands on aren't worth their price either (they're worthless, I'd say), but people still buy them.

 

[JDMKING13]

As I've already stated, the whales are responsible too for their behavior, but we can't just ignore the well documented psychological tricks in use by game companies to encourage and pressure the whales.

I am sorry man and maybe it’s my athletic background… but I don’t blame others for my faults… nor am I angry for anyone with addiction… however to blame other people for your own faults I’m sorry some need self control… are you also siding with the person who has over sexual personality and forces themselves on another person and blames the victim for wearing skimpy sleezy clothes? Where do you draw the line and start to make people take responsibility for their own actions?

There’s a person who likes GT7 and might not have the time to play the game like me and other… you mad at them for dropping 10 bucks on a game they like? CoD from what I heard is making like 5 million a day on these MTs.. are you on their forums to start a crusade?

 

[MrMattAdz]

For example, another thing hit me the other day - why do roulette tickets have an expiry? I genuinely cannot fathom WHY this would be? Car purchase invitations - perhaps - but roulette tickets? What is the purpose?

I hadn't noticed that feature but it does tie into this theory I had in the back of my mind about the credit limit. I'm giving myself away here as a total loon, but I reckon it's there to keep people playing the game more regularly throughout the game's lifecycle.

Let's go through some of the mechanics in the game and, if you're being kind, you can start to find evidence to support that:
Daily workout - self-explanatory.
UCD - refreshes every day and contains some cars that can only really be obtained in this section of the game. I'm sure PD will see a higher number of players logging than usual the day that the 86 Trueno is put in there.
Legends car dealership - same as UCD, this one especially helps explain the credit limit. If players can't save up 100million credits, then they simply have to play more throughout the game's life in order to purchase everything that comes through here.
New cars being released for free - kind of self-explanatory, people who have taken a pause from playing GT7 are incentivised to play again so they can use new cars.
Expiry date on roulette - this is tied into the credit limit, as people would just save them up once they reached the 20million limit and then use them up once they'd spent some money as a quick way to get their credits back up again.

I'm aware there that you could easily flip a lot of the above and make the case for them all being there to encourage MTXs, and perhaps more importantly, surely the only thing PD care about maintaining is a large playercount for the sport mode, so why make the payouts so bad for that mode if you're trying to encourage people to play throughout the game's lifecycle by providing lots of limited time content? It doesn't add up, "oh I'll grind the single player content so I can buy this cool car to use in sport mode, except I don't have time to play sport mode now because I'm busy grinding single player content". Maybe they want there to be perceived rarity and exclusivity for certain cars like there is in real life, like they want people to have a reaction when you turn up with a 10million credit car in an online mode?

Like I said, I'm aware how much of the above theorising is probably quite easy to dismiss as plain dumb, but I don't see the connection some people are making between the mechanics in this game and a push to get players to purchase MTXs.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I don't regret buying the game itself....but I do regret buying it for £70. It's nowhere near worth that price.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I am sorry man and maybe it’s my athletic background… but I don’t blame others for my faults…

Did you miss the part where I blamed the whales too? They can both be at fault, feeding on each other.

are you also siding with the person who has over sexual personality and forces themselves on another person and blames the victim for wearing skimpy sleezy clothes?

Genuinely what the **** are you talking about? This is about predatory practices in gaming being bad, a sexual predator is also bad, I shouldn't even need to mention this?

Where do you draw the line and start to make people take responsibility for their own actions?

Please reread what you were quoting. I'll put it right here for you.

As I've already stated, the whales are responsible too for their behavior,

There’s a person who likes GT7 and might not have the time to play the game like me and other… you mad at them for dropping 10 bucks on a game they like?

No, I'm mad at Polyphony for overpricing their MTX and building the game around artificial scarcity and FOMO to pressure vulnerable people into buying them.

CoD from what I heard is making like 5 million a day on these MTs.. are you on their forums to start a crusade?

No, because I don't play CoD. I do talk about my issues with Forza on their forum, because I play that game.

 

[RedRockValley]

are you also siding with the person who has over sexual personality and forces themselves on another person and blames the victim for wearing skimpy sleezy clothes? Where do you draw the line and start to make people take responsibility for their own actions?

Whoa now, sexual assault is an entirely different ballpark to a whale addicted to MTX. They're directly harming another human being, while the whale is only really harming themselves.

I understand what you're trying to say in regards to your views about personal responsibility, but do realise that your comparison could come off as a very distasteful one to many people.

 

[MrMattAdz]

A little $20 bet with some buddies over the sportsball game? Nah, that's fine.

You are aware I hope that it's exactly this kind of scenario that drives people into becoming gambling addicts down the line. Quite surprised by the double standard there to be honest.

Hardly anyone makes their first step into a betting shop alone. They do so with friends, or off the back of a 'harmless' bet between friends which they won and enjoyed the feeling of. I myself became an addict to gambling MTXs after spending a small amount of leftover credit on my PS account because in the moment it felt so casual. I got a really good result from the gamble and very quickly found myself spending hundreds if not thousands over the course of a few years trying to chase that initial feeling.

 

[NAXEHT]

A little $20 bet with some buddies over the sportsball game? Nah, that's fine. Larger scales, companies that profit off this stuff? Absolutely.

Fine. We just have fundamentally different opinions about this then. With just a few, tiny unique exceptions we all know the house always wins. I’ve been doing sports betting on football (or soccer for you) for over a decade and while yes, in total I’m at a net loss it’s a minor one because I’ve always kept track of statistics and never played for more money than I could afford to lose. The rules are pretty simple.

All the little cosmetics in games that people still spend thousands on aren't worth their price either (they're worthless, I'd say), but people still buy them.

Their choice.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

You are aware I hope that it's exactly this kind of scenario that drives people into becoming gambling addicts down the line. Quite surprised by the double standard there to be honest.

Not if there isn't anyone around trying to turn them into gambling addicts.
But sure, you've made me reconsider my position; maybe those little bets are bad.

Their choice.

This "personal responsibility" **** gets real old when it's used so often as a defense of psychological manipulation. The game companies know what they're doing. They know they're exploiting people. They know they're manipulative.

 

[zargdin]

I've been a fan of GT ever since the first game on the old playstation. I never thought I would hesitate or think twice before buying a GT game. My main concern is, as others have pointed out, that it seems to be an upgraded version of GT Sport - with only three additional tracks, (could have been handled by a DLC package on GTS) and a lot of annoying dialogue and unskippable boring sequences. Reading the above comments has re-enforced my doubts, I'm afraid.

 

[JDMKING13]

Whoa now, sexual assault is an entirely different ballpark to a whale addicted to MTX. They're directly harming another human being, while the whale is only really harming themselves.

I understand what you're trying to say in regards to your views about personal responsibility, but do realise that your comparison could come off as a very distasteful one to many people.

Distasteful how? It wasnt explicit details or anything so please it was an example… you guys crack me up… you blaming a company for tricking or pressuring people into buying MTs… saying how it hurts people with gambling problem… like Sony or PD is the reason the person has a problem… No the person has a problem because it’s their fault… I’m not saying things that happen in life isn’t bad or hard but still.. seems to me in the end of the day some folks don’t like PD/Sony and try to hide behind this idea “Im looking out for my fellow human so they don’t get hurt with these MTs because they have gambling problems” I just asked about COD and he said he didn’t care because he don’t play that game???? But what about all those folks who could have gambling problems? These guys are making 5 million a day just from MTS and nobody cares.. If you have no self control and this is with anything in life… I’m sorry but I will not tell that person it’s not their fault.. you did hardcore drugs and your an addict… Thats fine stuff happens.. and I would do my best to help them… but I would never tell them oh it’s not your fault because you lost your job… nahh sorry not me

 

[RedRockValley]

Above all, there's just no reason for MTX to exist in a fully priced game in 2022. I really thought the gaming industry moved past this following lots of criticism, but apparently not...

I just can't defend it. I defend GT on many aspects but MTX in a fully priced game is simply against my morals.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I just asked about COD and he said he didn’t care because he don’t play that game???? But what about all those folks who could have gambling problems?

They*
And I do care, but if I talked about every single predatory gaming company I'd never have a break. Instead I focus on the games I do play.

Distasteful how? It wasnt explicit details or anything so please it was an example… you guys crack me up… you blaming a company for tricking or pressuring people into buying MTs… saying how it hurts people with gambling problem… like Sony or PD is the reason the person has a problem… No the person has a problem because it’s their fault…

The person has a problem and Sony is exploiting that problem.

 

[RedRockValley]

Distasteful how? It wasnt explicit details or anything so please it was an example… you guys crack me up… you blaming a company for tricking or pressuring people into buying MTs… saying how it hurts people with gambling problem… like Sony or PD is the reason the person has a problem… No the person has a problem because it’s their fault… I’m not saying things that happen in life isn’t bad or hard but still.. seems to me in the end of the day some folks don’t like PD/Sony and try to hide behind this idea “Im looking out for my fellow human so they don’t get hurt with these MTs because they have gambling problems” I just asked about COD and he said he didn’t care because he don’t play that game???? But what about all those folks who could have gambling problems? These guys are making 5 million a day just from MTS and nobody cares.. If you have no self control and this is with anything in life… I’m sorry but I will not tell that person it’s not their fault.. you did hardcore drugs and your an addict… Thats fine stuff happens.. and I would do my best to help them… but I would never tell them oh it’s not your fault because you lost your job… nahh sorry not me

Of course you didn't go into explicit detail, but that's not my point. Sexual assault is a very serious topic, much more so than a debate about microtransactions in video games.

I'm not up in arms about your comparison, I'm just saying that it's not the same situation as MTX in video games and that at the end of the day, it's a much more pressing (and traumatic) issue compared to this, which is why some would find your comparison disrespectful.

You're free to say what you wish, I'm not trying to censor you, just giving food for thought.

 

[NAXEHT]

Not if there isn't anyone around trying to turn them into gambling addicts.
But sure, you've made me reconsider my position; maybe those little bets are bad.

This "personal responsibility" **** gets real old when it's used so often as a defense of psychological manipulation. The game companies know what they're doing. They know they're exploiting people. They know they're manipulative.

What gets real old is the position I’m hearing from you and similar people who almost completely ignores responsibility. You say we lean too much on it but is it not a word in your vocabulary at all? All companies are evil blood-thirsty wolves preying on the weak kittens submitting to purchasing ineffective MTX? Huh? Something like that?

And betting? Not too put words in your mouth as I’d like to avoid being dishonest but do indulge me — would you like to see it banned?

 

[RedRockValley]

All companies are evil blood-thirsty wolves preying on the weak kittens submitting to purchasing ineffective MTX?

Not all gaming companies, no, but a lot of the big players... Yeah, pretty much, until a lot of people got fed up of it and the companies got their **** together. PD just seems to be hanging onto it, for some reason.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

What gets real old is the position I’m hearing from you and similar people who almost completely ignores responsibility.

If you choose to only cherrypick parts of what I've said, sure. Except I've said over and over how both parties are responsible, one has a problem and that is on them, but Sony is exploiting that problem, which does make them the evil one in this situation, yes.

And betting? Not too put words in your mouth as I’d like to avoid being dishonest but do indulge me — would you like to see it banned?

Going back to the idea of smaller friendly bets, while I've reconsidered and do believe they're probably a bad thing, I also don't believe they should be punished. There can be small bad things that people engage in that only affect themselves, otherwise I'd be banning things like unhealthy food too. However, anything larger scale, such as companies trying to profit from it, should be banned in my opinion.

 

[JDMKING13]

Of course you didn't go into explicit detail, but that's not my point. Sexual assault is a very serious topic, much more so than a debate about microtransactions in video games.

I'm not up in arms about your comparison, I'm just saying that it's not the same situation as MTX in video games and that at the end of the day, it's a much more pressing (and traumatic) issue compared to this, which is why some would find your comparison disrespectful.

You're free to say what you wish, I'm not trying to censor you, just giving food for thought.

So a person whith a serious gambling problem is not a serious topic? Hardcore Gambling is a form of addiction right? Have you seen what people do to feed their addiction? They will steal cheat and even kill… So I don’t know how you just sweep it under the rug now… you guys are saying how Sony and PD are purposely doing this right? Isn’t that a person hurting anothing person willingly?? Yes this is a game and when I try to say that before… I got “oh it’s way much bigger than a game… this can cause serious problems… I was initially shocked when people start bringing Gambling Issue into these MTXs.. I didn’t think it was that serious… I though hey if you want to spend your money spend it… but now it’s wayyyy deeper than that!

Also I have nothing against you or others and I have look at it in your perspective.. and Agree big time if these companies are setting up these games on purpose to force you to use MTs… then yes shame on them they need to be punished… however that still does not excuse a person for having a gambling problem and use the excuse of any company as a scapegoat.. it’s ok to have problems we ALL do but once you start blaming others that when I don’t agree sorry.

 

[AshenGraey]

I don't regret buying the game but seeing how incomplete it feels at this point, I do regret paying full price for the 25th anniversary edition. That being said, I don't really have any other major issues with the game seeing how I barely have time to play (maybe 2-3 hrs on Saturday and Sunday). Needles to say, I haven't completed the current content and the only bug I came across was my liveries not applying on my cars. So far the game has met my minimum expectations and for what I've been able to do in it, I've quite enjoyed it. For now, I'd say I'm satisfied to a certain extent but I'm expecting a lot more from PD so I'm looking forward to see it get better over time. I do feel sorry for the people who have not been able to play and enjoy the game though. I know I'd feel cheated by PD if I was in their shoes considering the edition I bought was almost $125 CAD at release with taxes included.

In regards to microtransaction, the only one I would ever consider paying for is if it doubles the credit reward for each race like Ubisoft did with AC Valhalla and Exp. Points and silver, I find that cuts down on the grinding and enhance the gameplay experience. Anything else for me is a no no and games that are set up to force people into those Microtransaction get shelved immediately. It doesn't impact me as much in GT7 because at the pace I'm playing, I know I'm not going to match my GT Sport career and I probably won't be collecting any of those big dollar cars anytime soon and I'm Ok with that.

 

[MrMattAdz]

Not if there isn't anyone around trying to turn them into gambling addicts.
But sure, you've made me reconsider my position; maybe those little bets are bad.

I appreciate that it can be difficult to perceive how one can blend into the other, but consider how businesses are trying to turn people into gambling addicts, or MTXs addicts. Let's use Fifa ultimate team as an example here, as unfortunately that's the system I became an addict to initially. I appreciate that this post is going to go off-topic from GT7, apologies to the mods for that.

In ultimate team, throughout your time playing the game, you are given multiple opportunities to open packs for free, which are a type of gamble, without needing to spend any real money on MTXs to do so. Now it doesn't matter if the gamble cost you anything or not, a lot of people are going to open these 'free' packs, win big like I did, and start to chase that feeling, spending money as they do so.

That's the business model, encourage new players to try your gambling service in whatever way you can (free packs on fifa, matched betting deals with sports betting companies), and it doesn't matter that a lot of people are going to lose and never come back, because enough people will win, experience the high, and come back for more and more. Eventually you're placing bigger bets, you're trying to cover for losses because you believe that eventually you have to win because the odds say so.

Which brings me back to that example of a few friends placing a wager amongst themselves on that night's sport event. Someone is going to win that wager, and most of the time, that'll probably be that, they might do some more in the future with the same friends, winning and losing along the way, but that's as far as it goes. But there are a lot of people who played that first gamble in a seemingly safe environment with friends, who will win that wager, feel pretty good about it, and want to replicate it again. And if you're friends don't want to gamble again, where are you going to go instead?

The first pack I ever bought on fifa was with friends, it was actually the first time I'd ever played ultimate team. Neither of my friends had or ever did purchase a MTX, but I had a couple of £s credit on my account that wasn't going to be spent on anything else, and after we had won a couple of good players from the free packs, I offered to spend my credit on "one final pack", because why not. No one was there, explicitly trying to turn me into an addict, but that's what happened. I bought more packs after my friends had left because I thought I would win just as big again, and even when I did it wasn't enough.

I'm fine now and I'm not trying to make this a sob story or whatever, and I know that I'm probably a hypocrite for not taking GT7 MTXs as seriously as other people are. But the reason for that is that I don't see the pathway for someone becoming an addict in GT7 like I see in other games. And I personally do have a problem with all forms of gambling and regret to see that there aren't the same controls around it like we see for alcohol or smoking. I'd like to see the practice banned, but that's never going to happen given the current state of lobbying we have today.

 

[breeminator]

For a game that is trying to incentivise people to purchase MTXs, this doesn't seem like the kind of business model that would encourage that.

I was thinking about this yesterday, and I think we may have misunderstood the reason for the cars having ridiculous values in real world currency. As you point out, it's not sensible pricing if you want people to buy them with real world currency. I think the real reason might be to get people to assign a real world currency value to their playing of the game. Like "Hey, I can grind High Speed Ring for an hour and it's like I'm being paid £20 for that hour, that's a great way to spend my time!".

Personally, I'm feeling like this game is probably over for me. I did some grinding of Fishermans Ranch last night to get the F40, and now I'm pretty bored of both that race and HSR. I'd like to be trying some cars for daily race qualifying, but I have no credits after getting the F40, which I had to get because it's going out of the shop. I can't get more credits because I simply don't want to spend my time doing something boring, I have a ton of real world boring chores I can be doing that are a much more useful way to spend my time if I'm going to do something boring. And daily race qualifying, the thing I'd actually enjoy doing, doesn't pay out any credits at all, so it just doesn't work as a way to play the game because you can't do it without the cars, but it doesn't pay out credits to buy them.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I'm fine now and I'm not trying to make this a sob story or whatever, and I know that I'm probably a hypocrite for not taking GT7 MTXs as seriously as other people are. But the reason for that is that I don't see the pathway for someone becoming an addict in GT7 like I see in other games. And I personally do have a problem with all forms of gambling and regret to see that there aren't the same controls around it like we see for alcohol or smoking. I'd like to see the practice banned, but that's never going to happen given the current state of lobbying we have today.

I don't think we disagree as much as it seemed, you've changed my view on those small friendly bets and we definitely agree that MTX are a bad thing as a whole.

While GT7 may be less likely to make an addict, to me that does not change the fact that they certainly seem to be trying, or at least are careless enough to not consider the consequences of their actions on people. They are only looking to grab money from people, which is standard for a company, but the few people who do fall into this game's MTX are likely to spend tons of money on it.

I think less people will buy than usual, but that's offset by the high price. People who do fall for it will lose so much, and if someone does end up addicted, at these prices it can ruin them.

 

[Famine]

I appreciate that this post is going to go off-topic from GT7, apologies to the mods for that.

Not necessary; it's a valuable post.

And I personally block all gambling concerns and content from my social media feeds because it is so parasitic.

 

[jeffdesign]

That is one thing that make me a little bit upset. It's now really hard to get some money and almost all the car get the price powered up just because in real live the price a higher.