If the majority of GT5 tracks are GT4 tracks upscaled to HD...

  • Thread starter Earth
  • 52 comments
  • 4,177 views

What do you think about GT5 tracks being GT4 tracks upscaled to HD?

  • I'm OK with it

    Votes: 26 21.1%
  • I'm not OK with it

    Votes: 16 13.0%
  • I'm OK with it if that's what it takes to keep a good framerate with weather/day/night etc

    Votes: 30 24.4%
  • I'm OK with it as long as the quality is as good as the tracks seen in GT5P

    Votes: 51 41.5%

  • Total voters
    123
8,018
GTP_Royalton
...Would you mind?

I think I read somehwere that GT5P Suzuka is just GT4 Suzuka upscaled to HD, and so far all the footage of Le Mans and the Nurburgring with GT5P cars driving on them have been nothing but upscaled GT4 tracks. Daytona, Eiger and London appear to be the only "From scratch" tracks seen so far, probably because they're new to the GT series.

So is this a big deal to you or are you OK with it?

Personally I'm OK with it if that's what it takes to have 16 GT5P quality cars + day/night + weather at the same time.
 
Honestly, I would be just fine. Surely, I would love it to be otherwise, but if that is what it takes, as you said, then I can live with it 👍
 
that probably saved PD a pile of time...besides, aren't they taking long enough for most people?
 
Well, I won't mind, as long as the quality doesn't suffer. But I thought Suzuka was made from scratch for Prologue. :confused:
 
I'm fine with it as long as they used the time they saved and put it into other parts of the game.
 
Antti-san
Well, I won't mind, as long as the quality doesn't suffer. But I thought Suzuka was made from scratch for Prologue.

It may have been a scratch made track, I'm not sure, but it looks very early to me, a "work in progress" is the words I guess. On the other hand Daytona Road, Eiger and London look very clean and sharp.

I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what has been made from scratch and what hasn't, but it is obvious that the videos of Le Mans and the nurburgring show they are just upscaled GT4 tracks. The jump is nowhere near as high as the car models made from GT4 to GT5P.

I use to be dead set against GT5 using high resolution GT4 tracks, but now I am not against it if thats what it takes to add all these extra special effects (Rain etc etc)

Not having to build all the tracks over from scratch should make the rumored 96 total track count possible.

I've just looked over the list of GT4 tracks, there is about 50 different track layouts. If you count the reverse layouts of the fictional tracks the number goes up to about 95 tracks.

Add the tracks in the weather report and you got over 100...

So here's to quantity over quality :cheers:
 
The tracks are good enough for me, I kinda wanted to vote for both of the bottom polll options.
 
I think I read somehwere that GT5P Suzuka is just GT4 Suzuka upscaled to HD,

....as well as a load more detail......which is the point, is it not? I don't remember such detailed crowds, grass, tarmac, advertising, etc etc etc in GT4.

I would like all the tracks to be the same detail as GT5P - lots of crowds, flags, etc and all the little details in the track surface.
 
...Would you mind?

I think I read somehwere that GT5P Suzuka is just GT4 Suzuka upscaled to HD, and so far all the footage of Le Mans and the Nurburgring with GT5P cars driving on them have been nothing but upscaled GT4 tracks. Daytona, Eiger and London appear to be the only "From scratch" tracks seen so far, probably because they're new to the GT series.

So is this a big deal to you or are you OK with it?

Personally I'm OK with it if that's what it takes to have 16 GT5P quality cars + day/night + weather at the same time.

It may have been a scratch made track, I'm not sure, but it looks very early to me, a "work in progress" is the words I guess. On the other hand Daytona Road, Eiger and London look very clean and sharp.

I'm no expert, so I'm not sure what has been made from scratch and what hasn't, but it is obvious that the videos of Le Mans and the nurburgring show they are just upscaled GT4 tracks. The jump is nowhere near as high as the car models made from GT4 to GT5P.

I use to be dead set against GT5 using high resolution GT4 tracks, but now I am not against it if thats what it takes to add all these extra special effects (Rain etc etc)

Not having to build all the tracks over from scratch should make the rumored 96 total track count possible.

I've just looked over the list of GT4 tracks, there is about 50 different track layouts. If you count the reverse layouts of the fictional tracks the number goes up to about 95 tracks.

Add the tracks in the weather report and you got over 100...

So here's to quantity over quality :cheers:

Are you having a laugh? What is this kind of a thread? Would you show me where you have read anything about upscaled GT4 Tracks for GT5 (yes, we are in the GT5 section of the forum)? Thanks in advance.
 
I'm pretty sure the guy who was talking about Suzuka was just talking about the basic track model, which I seriously doubt when you look at the edges of the tracks, they're much smoother and the transition between elevations seems more advanced. Then again, I haven't played GT4 in a long time.

Anyway, I chose the third option.

Edit: And Earth, none of us have played these tracks in 1080p (Le Sarthe and Nurb), so nobody has a clue if they're just upscaled. You're basing your judgements on Youtube videos unless you can provide evidence somewhere (which I'll gladly accept).
 
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Why change almost perfect tracks?

So far FUJI and SUZUKA as well HSR looks great.. no need to re-do them for HD. Besides they took extra care in GT4 to have realistic turns and measurements. No need to build it again from scratch..

So I am OK with it..
As well its good point that it will be better for frame rate as well weather.
 
Edit: And Earth, none of us have played these tracks in 1080p (Le Sarthe and Nurb), so nobody has a clue if they're just upscaled. You're basing your judgements on Youtube videos unless you can provide evidence somewhere (which I'll gladly accept).
I wrote with people who played at least one of them in FULLHD but both tracks were/are work in progress and still using GT4 assets. Look at Eiger in GTHD Concept and then look at Eiger in GT5 Prologue. In GTHD C they also used GT4 assets, like tarmac textures, some grass textures and even some car textures. Now look at the Prologue version. Its the same with the Nürb. and Sarthe.

But @Suzuka: First, theres no such thing like an "upscaled" track, you cant just "upscale" a racecourse. Second, Suzuka in GT5P has a HUGE amount of details, just like all the other tracks in Prologue. Textures have an extremely high resolution, theres 3D grass, 2D moving crowd, way more polyons on objects etc. If it would be "upscaled" all ad banners would be washed out and pixelated, you would see huge pixels on the tarmac and grass and the corners would be edgy.

EDIT: Oh and yeah, HSR, looks also completely different compared to GT4s.

All tracks are on the same standard in GT5P, only differences are the landscapes themself.
 
Are you having a laugh? What is this kind of a thread? Would you show me where you have read anything about upscaled GT4 Tracks for GT5 (yes, we are in the GT5 section of the forum)? Thanks in advance.

You are new to this forum so I'll forgive your scathing tone and sarcasm this one time.

I have not read about GT4 tracks with GT5P quality cars, I have seen it multiple times and so have others. But of course you haven't, because you are a sarcastic noob.

Also, does the word "if" not mean anything to you?

Watevaman
I'm pretty sure the guy who was talking about Suzuka was just talking about the basic track model, which I seriously doubt when you look at the edges of the tracks, they're much smoother and the transition between elevations seems more advanced. Then again, I haven't played GT4 in a long time.

Anyway, I chose the third option.

Ardius
...as well as a load more detail......which is the point, is it not? I don't remember such detailed crowds, grass, tarmac, advertising, etc etc etc in GT4.

I would like all the tracks to be the same detail as GT5P - lots of crowds, flags, etc and all the little details in the track surface.

smoother track edges - upscaled to HD
better elevation transitions - could mean it was scratch made, or just updated.
detailed crowds - 2-D crowds are now animated
grass - 2-D animated grass
tarmac/track surface - upscaled with better texture

BUT

It may be that this is as good as GT5 tracks will be, even though the jump the car models made is nowhere near the jump the tracks made, which leads me to believe they may just be upscaled, touched up tracks.

Edit: And Earth, none of us have played these tracks in 1080p (Le Sarthe and Nurb), so nobody has a clue if they're just upscaled. You're basing your judgements on Youtube videos unless you can provide evidence somewhere (which I'll gladly accept).

The video of GT5P quality cars running on the Nurburgring showed the track was GT4 quality (some fencing still had very low polygon numbers, many agreed it looked like GT4 upscaled)

Video of lemans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDXhoPGWXgI

gtplanet.net
Like the special “Nurburgring Special Edition” version of the game, the track is probably just a ‘glorified’ version of the same model we saw in Gran Turismo 4. Regardless, to a fan base starving for new GT5 Prologue tracks, this clip should provide a tiny bit of refreshment (and hope!).

Thats from the main page of Gtplanet

The deal is, will we get these glorified GT4 tracks in GT5 or will we get from scratch tracks?

I wrote with people who played at least one of them in FULLHD but both tracks were/are work in progress and still using GT4 assets. Look at Eiger in GTHD Concept and then look at Eiger in GT5 Prologue. In GTHD C they also used GT4 assets, like tarmac textures, some grass textures and even some car textures. Now look at the Prologue version. Its the same with the Nürb. and Sarthe.

But @Suzuka: First, theres no such thing like an "upscaled" track, you cant just "upscale" a racecourse. Second, Suzuka in GT5P has a HUGE amount of details, just like all the other tracks in Prologue. Textures have an extremely high resolution, theres 3D grass, 2D moving crowd, way more polyons on objects etc. If it would be "upscaled" all ad banners would be washed out and pixelated, you would see huge pixels on the tarmac and grass and the corners would be edgy.

EDIT: Oh and yeah, HSR, looks also completely different compared to GT4s.

All tracks are on the same standard in GT5P, only differences are the landscapes themself.


Thanks for explaining everything.

Hopefully all GT5 tracks get the full PS3 treatment, and no work in progresses get in. But if they do, fine with me.
 
I'm a little iffy on this subject. GT4 didn't have smooth turns. It had a series of small straight lines that made up a corner. So if the upscaled versions smoothed these lines to actual curves, I'd be fine with it. The only videos I've seen on this "upscaled Nurburgring" have been on YouTube so, I can't confirm if I'd like it. If Fuji and Suzuka are "upscaled", then I'm perfectly fine with it.
 
Read my post. ;)

You couldnt make the turns smoother with upscaling, upscaling just means that the resolution gets... well... scaled. Of course if you would take GT4 and upscale it to 1080p (with a proper scaling hard-/software) it will look better, crisper, but you wouldnt add more details.
 
Read my post. ;)

You couldnt make the turns smoother with upscaling, upscaling just means that the resolution gets... well... scaled. Of course if you would take GT4 and upscale it to 1080p (with a proper scaling hard-/software) it will look better, crisper, but you wouldnt add more details.

Yah, I was typing mine when you posted yours. Typing on the PS3 takes forever.:indiff:
 
Rendering a GT4 track using the GT5 engine will not smooth curves, if anything it will make the low polygon count even more obvious. Upscaling is really the wrong term for this as that is more often used to refer to a bitmap image that is upscaled. In this case GT5 would simply be rendering the original polygon data, not the bitmaps.

If a curve is made up of three straight segments then GT5 will just render it as three straight segments but with more pixels in each segment. You can actually use polygon data and Bezier coordinates to render curves but that's well beyond the scope of any modern graphics engine (rendering the line is not that hard but dealing with clipping and intersections is where it gets seriously complex).

I tend to think it highly unlikely that PD would consider releasing GT5 with some high polygon count tracks and some low. I can't think of a single game where that's ever been done, invariably whatever target level of detail is set as a goal is uniformly implemented across the game. There may be different rendering levels between cars, tracks, replays, in-car views but I would be incredibly surprised if all of the tracks weren't rendered to common level of detail. Given that we already have a handful of tracks rendered in pretty high detail I would think that sets the bar for the rest of the game when GT5 comes out (release title for the PS5 maybe :D).
 
smoother track edges - upscaled to HD
better elevation transitions - could mean it was scratch made, or just updated.
detailed crowds - 2-D crowds are now animated
grass - 2-D animated grass
tarmac/track surface - upscaled with better texture


You are aware that you can't simply up the resolution of a screen and expect the turn to get smoother, correct?

I'm honestly not sure you have your terminology correct. Upscaling usually refers to taking something of low detail and stretching it to compensate for a larger encompassed space or something similar.

However, with something like a racetrack, you either modify it or you don't. The closest I can get from what you're trying to say is simply modifying the textures and surrounding landscape that doesn't affect your race (trees, spectators, etc.). If the devs do anything to the physical track and surrounding grass/sand itself, it's no longer in the realm of upscaling, it has entered into the realm of being updated.


Maybe you can specify your definitions?
 
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You are aware that you can't simply up the resolution of a screen and expect the turn to get smoother, correct?

Uhm i said:
You couldnt make the turns smoother with upscaling
I also said you cant just upscale a track, i dont know what you want from me.

EDIT:
Rendering a GT4 track using the GT5 engine will not smooth curves, if anything it will make the low polygon count even more obvious. Upscaling is really the wrong term for this as that is more often used to refer to a bitmap image that is upscaled. In this case GT5 would simply be rendering the original polygon data, not the bitmaps.

If a curve is made up of three straight segments then GT5 will just render it as three straight segments but with more pixels in each segment. You can actually use polygon data and Bezier coordinates to render curves but that's well beyond the scope of any modern graphics engine (rendering the line is not that hard but dealing with clipping and intersections is where it gets seriously complex).

I tend to think it highly unlikely that PD would consider releasing GT5 with some high polygon count tracks and some low. I can't think of a single game where that's ever been done, invariably whatever target level of detail is set as a goal is uniformly implemented across the game. There may be different rendering levels between cars, tracks, replays, in-car views but I would be incredibly surprised if all of the tracks weren't rendered to common level of detail. Given that we already have a handful of tracks rendered in pretty high detail I would think that sets the bar for the rest of the game when GT5 comes out (release title for the PS5 maybe :D).
Exactly.
 
Earth, I'm not really sure where you got this stuff. For one thing, that would make it hearsay, which is as good as what?

Secondly, ALL the tracks look fantastic, but while still lacking a zillion little details that you see in videos of the actual tracks. Not Youtube videos, by the way. And this applies to all the tracks, not just the old courses; Fuji, Suzuka and High Speed Ring.

See, I admire PD's work so much that I took the time to cruise around the tracks and scope out the scenery. They all look superb, they all have the same level of detail, but there is one thing. They remind me a lot of how GT3 looked when I first saw it in a nice big TV. The tracks were expansive. They were detailed. They had an air of realism about them. But they were also missing a lot of the little clutter and nitty details that real life always brings with it. When GT4 finally arrived, wow, what a difference. Okay, it still wasn't like reality, but it was much closer.

These Prologue tracks are in such resolution that you can see how close they are to real life, and how much they aren't, much like GT3 was for me. But the jump from GT2 to 3 was such a terrific quantum leap that I sincerely doubt anyone made a thread about it. And Prologue's environments, all of them, are SO good that people who don't know it's a video game think they're watching real life racing film.

In my judgment, Kazunori had his team create car models that would be useful for any sort of damage modeling, and at least one more generation of Gran Turismo, perhaps far more. Because each car is made of 200,000 plus polygons, making upwards of 20 - 30 MILLION polygons in a 16 car field just for the cars, the environment could only be so detailed without requiring both LOD scavenging and lots of pop up. And still, the tracks look amazingly real. If not to you, they sure do to me.

The race courses in GT5 should make even the pickiest gamer happy. If not, go play a PC sim to see glorious actual PS2 quality tracks in HD. ;)

By the way, the spectators are 3D now. And if you still want more, GT6 will probably be the definitive PS3 Gran Turismo, just like GT4 was on the PS2. Unless GT6 ends up on the PS4, in which case, look out for some realistic tracks!

I tend to think it highly unlikely that PD would consider releasing GT5 with some high polygon count tracks and some low. I can't think of a single game where that's ever been done, invariably whatever target level of detail is set as a goal is uniformly implemented across the game.
Forza 2 may be the sole exception. A few tracks look obviously unfinished, like Nissasn Speedway.
 
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ITT people who don't actually know GT demand revamp of perfect tracks. Because a guardrail needs at least 47 million polygons to be realistic.
 
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