Infinite Draft... Divide by zero?

[Giygas]

Someone would have to calculate the maximum speed the X1 could take each corner at, which means we'll have to fiddle with the gearing, suspension settings, downforce, etc.

Certainly very difficult, but it would be pretty freakin awesome if someone could pull it off.

 

[TheEnd35000vr]

Someone would have to calculate the maximum speed the X1 could take each corner at, which means we'll have to fiddle with the gearing, suspension settings, downforce, etc.

Certainly very difficult, but it would be pretty freakin awesome if someone could pull it off.

God knows how long that would take to do. Because we would have to work out how to convert downforce, G-Force, Grip, Centrifugal Force etc. from GT5's ideas to the real world. And then y- Ugh. That's WAAAYY too much work for one man to do.

All I can say - Mind = del/logic.exe

 

[gamerdog6482]

Hold on, this has potential. The maximum number modern 64-bit computers (like the PS3) can process in one field is 18,446,700,000,000,000,000. And that speed in MPH has been achieved in GT3 by a Suzuki Escudo. If we can say that when the X2011 is drafting another X2011 its acceleration never slows, if all cars are parcked on thier respective places on the track, and floor it at the same time (A macrosecond difference could derail it completely) in theory if the gears are completely stretched and downforce is at a minimum and all that other good stuff, the car could reach 18,446,700,000,000,000,000MPH (actually one less than that as 0mph is calculated as well.). Once that speed is reached, the PS3 will freeze as 18,446,700,000,000,000,001 is a number 64-bit computers can not process.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

KAZ
Three letters.
Triangle has three corners and three sides.
Total illuminati proof

I've always known he was a puppet
Nissan must be a large part of it.. that's why they demand he put all their cars into the game.. BAM we are legit conspiracy theorists.

Also there's at least two triangles in each letter...

My head is now through the roof. Thank you.

Let me make sure I understand all of this...
Someone talks about the possibility of infinite draft, and it leads to us deciding that Kaz is part of the illuminati...cool

 

[kieran177]

Hold on, this has potential. The maximum number modern 64-bit computers (like the PS3) can process in one field is 18,446,700,000,000,000,000. And that speed in MPH has been achieved in GT3 by a Suzuki Escudo. If we can say that when the X2011 is drafting another X2011 its acceleration never slows, if all cars are parcked on thier respective places on the track, and floor it at the same time (A macrosecond difference could derail it completely) in theory if the gears are completely stretched and downforce is at a minimum and all that other good stuff, the car could reach 18,446,700,000,000,000,000MPH (actually one less than that as 0mph is calculated as well.). Once that speed is reached, the PS3 will freeze as 18,446,700,000,000,000,001 is a number 64-bit computers can not process.

Gt3 escudo = <3
So theoretically the x1 can go an infinite amount of velocity, but it is the ps3 that it is the limiting factor.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Gt3 escudo = <3
So theoretically the X2011 can go an infinite amount of velocity, but it is the ps3 that it is the limiting factor.

Theoretically any car could, as there is no individual limit of speed, or there wasn't in GT4 and doubt they would add one. The only reason the X2011 is the best choice is because of the absolute acceleration glitch and its already high top speed. If the PS3 was a 128-bit computer (which we aren't like;y to see in a PlayStatoin for 40 years) the maximum speed would be exponentially higher, so high that I couldn't type it here. If we could say that downforce increases exponentially with linear speed, drag would also increase exponentially. If we could find a car that has unaltering speed and absulute accerloration, it would be possible to hit 18,445,699,999,999,999,999MPH the PS3 can handle.

 

[kieran177]

Theoretically any car could, as there is no individual limit of speed, or there wasn't in GT4 and doubt they would add one. The only reason the X2011 is the best choice is because of the absolute acceleration glitch and its already high top speed. If the PS3 was a 128-bit computer (which we aren't like;y to see in a PlayStatoin for 40 years) the maximum speed would be exponentially higher, so high that I couldn't type it here. If we could say that downforce increases exponentially with linear speed, drag would also increase exponentially. If we could find a car that has unaltering speed and absulute accerloration, it would be possible to hit 18,445,699,999,999,999,999MPH the PS3 can handle.

I feel the gt3 escudo would probably be a good candidate, albeit would need a physics downgrade to gt3 spec, and have adjusted slipstream. Just as a general question, if you run a ps2 game on the 64 bit ps3, would the limiting factor be the game or the ps3 whilst performing the escudo glitch?

 

[gamerdog6482]

I feel the gt3 escudo would probably be a good candidate, albeit would need a physics downgrade to gt3 spec, and have adjusted slipstream. Just as a general question, if you run a ps2 game on the 64 bit ps3, would the limiting factor be the game or the ps3 whilst performing the escudo glitch?

In GT3, the speed was achieved by taking the Escudo and Wheelieing it out of the track, which produced massive acceleration in an infinite strait line. I believe it took over 7 hours to reach the binary cap.

In order to play GT3 on a PS3, you would need a very old PS3, and I wouldn't try it because of fear of damage to the system.

As of now in GT5, wheelieing does not provide any boost of speed or acceleration, so this would not be possible. Also, the Suzuki Escudo of GT3 is different from the Suzuki Escudo of GT5.

 

[kieran177]

In GT3, the speed was achieved by taking the Escudo and Wheelieing it out of the track, which produced massive acceleration in an infinite strait line. I believe it took over 7 hours to reach the binary cap.

In order to play GT3 on a PS3, you would need a very old PS3, and I wouldn't try it because of fear of damage to the system.

As of now in GT5, wheelieing does not provide any boost of speed or acceleration, so this would not be possible. Also, the Suzuki Escudo of GT3 is different from the Suzuki Escudo of GT5.

It's a shame the whaky physics and 1890bhp turbo upgrades are not in gt5, but all in the interest of progress. But if you had a ps3 that was old and wasn't going to be used, would it work?

 

[Troux]

I'm sorry to interrupt the prattle with a serious response, but theoretically, this would work. If you think about what makes drafting work, it's separating the air with the first car, and not having to separate it with the second, by not giving it room to "reassemble" and become ambient atmosphere again after the first car. If you put this infinite loop together, none of the cars would be encountering air, as it would all be maintained above, beside and (to a tiny extent) beneath the cars in motion. If their shape was perfect enough that they diverted ALL of the air (this would only happen if the cars were perfectly flush with one another, as if they were all stacked cubed), then they would be effectively gear limited, as drag would be removed from the equation. The X1 might be aerodynamic and powerful enough that they would see negligible enough drag for them to be gear-limited, as well.

 

[gamerdog6482]

It's a shame the whaky physics and 1890bhp turbo upgrades are not in gt5, but all in the interest of progress. But if you had a ps3 that was old and wasn't going to be used, would it work?

The Escudo from GT3 had two engines.

But do know that the only Gran Turismo game that works in the PS3 is Gran Turismo, i.e. the first one.

 

[Griffith500]

Theoretically any car could, as there is no individual limit of speed, or there wasn't in GT4 and doubt they would add one. The only reason the X2011 is the best choice is because of the absolute acceleration glitch and its already high top speed. If the PS3 was a 128-bit computer (which we aren't like;y to see in a PlayStatoin for 40 years) the maximum speed would be exponentially higher, so high that I couldn't type it here. If we could say that downforce increases exponentially with linear speed, drag would also increase exponentially. If we could find a car that has unaltering speed and absulute accerloration, it would be possible to hit 18,445,699,999,999,999,999MPH the PS3 can handle.

Nope, 2^128 is: 340 282 366 920 938 463 463 374 607 431 768 211 456.
I.e. 3.4 x 10^38 ish. That's well within what a calculator can show, in terms of magnitude (usually just under 10^100), although it won't give you all 39 digits.

2^64 is 18 446 744 073 709 551 616, so the actual "speed limit" in GT5 is one less than that (assuming it's a 64-bit integer, of course). I like that it has the "number of the beast", 616, on the end, there - you hit ... 615 and all is fine, roll over once more and all hell breaks loose!
But yeah, overflow is fun!


Has anyone actually tried this yet? It should at least be possible for everyone to lap faster than they could without slipstreaming (duh), but just how much faster?

 

[LancerEvo7]

But do know that the only Gran Turismo game that works in the PS3 is Gran Turismo, i.e. the first one.

GT2 works on my 120GB model. 👍

 

[MSTER232]

Also to note, that one X1 can pick up draft from another X1 from just over 150 meters away - infact, you can still catch the tail end of the draft when someone's name tag has fully disappeared on SSRX. The Motegi oval is 2413 meters in length (correct me if I'm wrong). 2413m/16 cars = 150.8m distance between the cars to link them up. So in theory, it could work. In reality, it won't

Now this is what you call a true mathematican 👍 .

Just out of interest, are people willing to meet up and actually try this? I would be interested in this experiment.

 

[gamerdog6482]

I'm sorry to interrupt the prattle with a serious response

So you are saying my through explanation of the concept was not serious?

tried this yet? It should at least be possible for everyone to lap faster than they could without slipstreaming (duh), but just how much faster?

It couldn't be tried at TRM, and here's why:
1: As I said before, a marcosecond difference in launch times will lead to disaster later; that kind of precision is not possible with human hands.
2: This is the big one. The setup required for those speeds would significantly reduce turning ability. At some point in the relatively (~150MPH) low speed range the X2011 would have to brake to go around the shorter turns.

 

[Griffith500]

So tone the speed down (maybe with a different car that is speed limited, not grip limited, at the Motegi SS), learn how to maintain a distance and see what the lap time difference is compared to an individual car. Working together to go faster, like geese, or something!

 

[MSTER232]

Would this work for a X2010? I just realized I didn't have the 2011 model :S

 

[gamerdog6482]

So tone the speed down (maybe with a different car that is speed limited, not grip limited, at the Motegi SS), learn how to maintain a distance and see what the lap time difference is compared to an individual car. Working together to go faster, like geese, or something!

This wouldn't work because as of now only the X2010 and X2011 have the absolute acceleration glitch.

Would this work for a X2010? I just realized I didn't have the 2011 model :S

It would, but it would be much harder.

 

[MSTER232]

It would, but it would be much harder.

No problem, I'm a good driver 👍 .

 

[gamerdog6482]

No problem, I'm a good driver 👍 .

By "harder" I mean "more impossible". The car would lose grip before the X2011 does, making its top speed around the track lower because of the lower downforce.

I just occurred to me, if no air is hitting the wings, the car couldn't take the turns faster. By that I mean once this theoretical "air ring" is formed on top of the car, downforce would drop significantly.

 

[Samus]

By "harder" I mean "more impossible".

There isn't a scale of impossibility.

 

[MSTER232]

There isn't a scale of impossibility.

Correct.

 

[banginspl]

The question is does the ghost pit trick work on motegi like it does on ssrx? And someone said we would run out of gearing... if you flip the transmission you can set the top speed to 977mph. You would never see that though. My ssrx gear is set to 734mph and I've achieved over 700mph with it.

 

[mattythedog]

Of course, we could build a road in outer space, and then your limiting factor would only be the speed of light. Assuming you could get the X2011 to stick to the road, or even build the road in the first place. Or make sure that road doesn't move. Or make an engine that needs no air to run. Ok, maybe it's not the most practical idea...

 

[Griffith500]

This wouldn't work because as of now only the X2010 and X2011 have the absolute acceleration glitch.

It would, but it would be much harder.

I think it was obvious from the start that it was never going to be as fast as driving in a straight line, especially when we have such long straights available on SSRX. What we really need is a wall-of-death, although that has its own problems.

This perpetual slipstream effect should still work with any high-downforce car that cannot max-out at Motegi SS. You could even argue that, as an exercise, it would actually be more effective on such cars than on the X-Wings, because you won't end up in the barriers at every turn.
EDIT: You could even extend it to see how little power you need to reach the limits of grip in such a slipstream.

 

[gamerdog6482]

The question is does the ghost pit trick work on motegi like it does on ssrx? And someone said we would run out of gearing... if you flip the transmission you can set the top speed to 977mph. You would never see that though. My ssrx gear is set to 734mph and I've achieved over 700mph with it.

If we could pull this "air ring:, there would be little to no air hitting the car. The only reason we wouldn't be able to hit that would be energy loss in the car, or friction created by the tires on the road. That is where SRF comes in.

Of course, we could build a road in outer space, and then your limiting factor would only be the speed of light.

Not really, the absolute maximum speed of GT (as said before) is above the speed of light.

Assuming you could get the X2011 to stick to the road,

Fan car? That would solve it.

or even build the road in the first place. Or make sure that road doesn't move. Or make an engine that needs no air to run. Ok, maybe it's not the most practical idea...

This is where it gets tricky, because if we had a 400 bound NOS tank...

I think it was obvious from the start that it was never going to be as fast as driving in a straight line,

Actually, the entire point was to be able to hit speeds faster than strait-line drafting.

especially when we have such long straights available on SSRX. What we really need is a wall-of-death, although that has its own problems.

What we need is either A: an ability to put 32 X2011s on RX, or B: this:

 

[DK]

Surely someone's suggested Daytona, is there any issue with that?

 

[MSTER232]

The question is does the ghost pit trick work on motegi like it does on ssrx? And someone said we would run out of gearing... if you flip the transmission you can set the top speed to 977mph. You would never see that though. My ssrx gear is set to 734mph and I've achieved over 700mph with it.

So you broke the GT5 sound barrier ?

 

[Griffith500]

...

Actually, the entire point was to be able to hit speeds faster than strait-line drafting. What we need is either A: an ability to put 32 X2011s on RX, or B: this:
http://www.leblogauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Albin/Nardo_Ring.jpg

I know, but slipstreaming around corners is going to be slower than in a straight line. So I was suggesting trying it with cars that aren't as limited by lateral grip as they are their aero drag / hp balance. Using Motegi's SS for a sort of "index of performance" test to get the highest speed out of the least power might be fun.

Also, we don't have 32 cars or Nardo, so the X-Wings will have to stick to their team drafting antics on SSRX, unfortunately.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Surely someone's suggested Daytona, is there any issue with that?

Read the OP, it's in there.

I know, but slipstreaming around corners is going to be slower than in a straight line. So I was suggesting trying it with cars that aren't as limited by lateral grip as they are their aero drag / hp balance. Using Motegi's SS for a sort of "index of performance" test to get the highest speed out of the least power might be fun.

Also, we don't have 32 cars or Nardo, so the X-Wings will have to stick to their team drafting antics on SSRX, unfortunately.

The entire point was that every car would be drafting another car. SSRX or a strait line could not do that.