Is a Hot Dog a Sandwich?

  • Thread starter Joel
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Is a Hot Dog a Sandwich?

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    225
Danoff
Your definition of what sandwiching means is too narrow. It eliminates a lot of accepted uses of the word sandwich. Which is why you're fighting notions of a folded half-sandwich, open-faced sandwich, sub-sandwich, breakfast sandwich, wrap sandwiches and on and on. You can sandwich something between two of anything, including two halves of the same layer.

delish-sheet-pan-quesadillas-still002-1525448942.jpg


This is cheese sandwiched in a folded tortilla. Now you might think I'm wrong to use the term that way, but did anyone misunderstand me? Did anyone have trouble reading or understanding that sentence? I'm using English, and it seems to be working correctly. You think people would have no idea what I'm talking about until someone takes a bit out of the seam, and then people would be like "oooooh, yea now it's sandwiched".

Comeon.

Edit:

BTW, nobody is going to believe this but... this conversation is very nearly what I do for a living.
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Yes, cheese "sandwiched" between "two halves" of one object. The halves aren't separated yet, they come about from abstract thinking (they exist in our heads in other words). I touched on this in the post after the one you quoted. :lol:

I'm not saying at all that people will misunderstand you for your interpretation of sandwiches. Indeed, quite a few people won't understand why I don't think a hot dog is a sandwich. :lol: However, just because something is commonly accepted doesn't necessarily mean that it's "correct." This is why misconceptions exist. To illustrate, I could portray a rapier (which typically weigh somewhere around 1.1 - 1.4kg) as a super lightweight fencing foil in a movie, which would then become a Hollywood and television trope, and mislead thousands of people in their childhoods about the weight and handling of a rapier, but that wouldn't make it true. It would be a commonly understood image, but not a true one, which is my point.

The categorization doesn't matter however. We both know what a hot dog is, the discussion surrounding the categorization of it is just a fun thought experiment. :D
 
Grand Prix
The halves aren't separated yet...
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What is the relevance of this? Why must that which surrounds a thing to such a degree be two separate things for the thing that is surrounded to be "sandwiched"?
 
TexRex
What is the relevance of this? Why must that which surrounds a thing to such a degree be two separate things?
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You need at least two objects to sandwich something. It's where the verb "sandwich" comes from, and that is how the Earl of Sandwich ate his sandwiches: they were meat, cheese etc. contained with two pieces of bread. When there's only one object to make a sandwich with, we envision the "halves" in our brain.

An open-faced "sandwich" is called open-faced for a reason.

As I said before though, if someone either sees the containing object folding over as two "halves" forming the sandwich, or the top layer not being the same as the bottom layer sandwiching the rest as a sandwich (like the open-faced sandwich), that's fine for communication purposes. It's just being approached differently.
 
I'm just going to make my final decision based on the poll results.

Oh, it is a sandwich, then.

How convenient, the poll agrees with me. :)
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
Could it be argued a hot dog just isn't a sandwich since it doesn't have the tangy zip of Miracle Whip?
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If Miracle Whip is needed for something to be a sandwich, I'd never eat a sandwich in my life. I'm a Hellmann's guy.

But I mean come on the real question I'm having now is whether or not potato salad is a sandwich if it's made with miracle whip. :P
 
Grand Prix
Yes, cheese "sandwiched" between "two halves" of one object. The halves aren't separated yet, they come about from abstract thinking (they exist in our heads in other words).
Click to expand...

Basically everything does. Including the idea of two halves after they're separated, and the idea of a sandwich in general. And the idea of food for that matter. It's all abstract in your head.

Grand Prix
I'm not saying at all that people will misunderstand you for your interpretation of sandwiches. Indeed, quite a few people won't understand why I don't think a hot dog is a sandwich. :lol: However, just because something is commonly accepted doesn't necessarily mean that it's "correct."
Click to expand...

If you want to point to another way to determine if it's a "correct" usage of a word, you'd need like... a technical definition of a sandwich that actually held up. And if you want to go strictly technical, almost nothing that we call a sandwich today is a "true" "correct" sandwich. At which point I'd say you're just clinging to a dead definition, that is not currently being used in a technical sense or a "common" sense.

Grand Prix
This is why misconceptions exist. To illustrate, I could portray a rapier (which typically weigh somewhere around 1.1 - 1.4kg) as a super lightweight fencing foil in a movie, which would then become a Hollywood and television trope, and mislead thousands of people in their childhoods about the weight and handling of a rapier, but that wouldn't make it true. It would be a commonly understood image, but not a true one, which is my point.
Click to expand...

I'd understand your point if chefs used some strict definition of sandwich when engaging in shop talk. But since they don't... your point is totally moot.

Grand Prix
The categorization doesn't matter however. We both know what a hot dog is, the discussion surrounding the categorization of it is just a fun thought experiment. :D
Click to expand...

It's a little more important than a fun thought experiment (but not much). Words are important, and have meaning. It's fun to poke around at the fuzzy edges of how we use words, especially when those words are not designed to be precise, or in an area where precision is not particularly useful. The term "centimeter" is designed to be precise. There is a strict definition of it as a standard that can be used to effect precision communication and implementation in the real world. A "swimming pool" has strict definitions if you're talking to an Olympic committee, but not so strict when you're not. The context of the usage is important for that term. The term "sandwich" has a strict definition only when you're arguing with someone on the internet who wants to claim that a half sandwich PBJ doesn't become a sandwich until the end of it gets bit. Otherwise it has no strict definition, and that's what's fun about this discussion. What the word "sandwich" has become is "that which has been sandwiched". And lots and lots of things are "sandwiched".
 
kolio
But I mean come on the real question I'm having now is whether or not potato salad is a sandwich if it's made with miracle whip. :P
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:lol:

It would be if it was on bread. If you put pieces of bread in the salad, you could argue it's a potato salad sandwich salad.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
Fine, carbohydrate vessel that is relatively flat and whole? or should we also include lettuce-wiches and the like?
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Carbs are also not required (I'm looking at cucumber subs, lettuce sandwiches, mushroom sandwiches..). Neither is flatness (breakfast sandwich from croissant), or wholeness (bagel).
 
I never thought identity politics would appeal to me, this thread makes question my values.

Is a breaded fish a sandwich? It has a filling, is encompassed by bread and can be eaten with one hand.

Why would it not be?
 
Danoff
Both of those are totally unnecessary for a sandwich
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But if I need two hands to eat with, I have to put down my sandwich to drink my beer/ read Reddit/GTP / push away curious children/ wipe crumbs from my face/ swap flys/mosquitoes...etc.

I know that’s just a convenience issue, but isn’t the whole point of a sandwich to be convenient? That’s surely the nature of its invention.
 
W3HS
But if I need two hands to eat with, I have to put down my sandwich to drink my beer/ read Reddit/GTP / push away curious children/ wipe crumbs from my face/ swap flys/mosquitoes...etc.

I know that’s just a convenience issue, but isn’t the whole point of a sandwich to be convenient? That’s surely the nature of its invention.
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Sometimes the whole point of having something is not the nature of its invention. Listerine was originally produced as floor cleaner. Play Doh was apparently first created to clean wallpaper. Rogaine was apparently designed as a blood pressure drug. Coca Cola was apparently originally created to counter morphine addiction (there's a deep irony there).

At this point there are some very inconvenient sandwiches. What's the point of an inconvenient sandwich? I'd guess it's to taste good.
 
Danoff
Carbs are also not required (I'm looking at cucumber subs, lettuce sandwiches, mushroom sandwiches..). Neither is flatness (breakfast sandwich from croissant), or wholeness (bagel).
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In it's base form a sandwich would be on bread. These are evolutions of that. One surface should be flat-ish, the one in contact with the contents preferably, unless you like to eat your bagels inside out.
 
This getting out of hand. I think intent is equally as important as definition. Is a sub a sandwich? Yes by definition and intent. Is a hamburger a sandwich? Yes by definition and intent. Same with an ice cream sandwich.
Is a taco a sandwich. No. Neither fully by definition or intent. Neither is breaded fish for the same reason. Those do not meet the definition, that being a substance "sandwiched" on two sides. Nor do they intend on being a sandwich.
A hot dog does not fully meet the definition, however, its intent is very much the same as a sandwich, so it would not be wrong to categorize it as such. Corn dogs, tacos, pies, pizza and so on definitely are not sandwiches. They don't follow the definition and their intent is to be what they are, which is categorically not a sandwich.
 
What if you fold the slice of pizza in half prior to consumption. Is it then a sandwich... or a taco? What if you then slice it along its seam?

if a man runs between two walls which close in and he gets stuck, he would be sandwiched. If those walls eventually meet in a U shaped bend, is he Taco’d?
 
Danoff
Basically everything does. Including the idea of two halves after they're separated, and the idea of a sandwich in general. And the idea of food for that matter. It's all abstract in your head.

If you want to point to another way to determine if it's a "correct" usage of a word, you'd need like... a technical definition of a sandwich that actually held up. And if you want to go strictly technical, almost nothing that we call a sandwich today is a "true" "correct" sandwich. At which point I'd say you're just clinging to a dead definition, that is not currently being used in a technical sense or a "common" sense.

I'd understand your point if chefs used some strict definition of sandwich when engaging in shop talk. But since they don't... your point is totally moot.

It's a little more important than a fun thought experiment (but not much). Words are important, and have meaning. It's fun to poke around at the fuzzy edges of how we use words, especially when those words are not designed to be precise, or in an area where precision is not particularly useful. The term "centimeter" is designed to be precise. There is a strict definition of it as a standard that can be used to effect precision communication and implementation in the real world. A "swimming pool" has strict definitions if you're talking to an Olympic committee, but not so strict when you're not. The context of the usage is important for that term. The term "sandwich" has a strict definition only when you're arguing with someone on the internet who wants to claim that a half sandwich PBJ doesn't become a sandwich until the end of it gets bit. Otherwise it has no strict definition, and that's what's fun about this discussion. What the word "sandwich" has become is "that which has been sandwiched". And lots and lots of things are "sandwiched".
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Fair enough.

However, I want to point out that sometimes, even terms that are designed to be precise can be incorrect. An example of this can be seen in the distinction made between "hardwoods" and "softwoods." More word fuzziness! :lol:

- European Yew has a hardness of 1,520 lbf (6,760 N) on the Janka hardness scale. Although this Yew is called a "softwood," it outranks a significant amount of hardwoods in hardness, which includes some species of Ash, Oak, Birch and Maple.
- Balsa has the softest wood there is, with a Janka hardness of 67 lbf (300 N). The wood is often used for applications where lightness is important, such as boats or model airplanes. Hilariously, it is classified as a "hardwood," since it is not a conifer.

My question to you is, how would you define a sandwich? Does that include things like trees wrapped in tree bark? Does that include an animal covered in skin? If not, why not?
 
TexRex
I think the technique utilized during consumption plays a significant part in differentiating between a hot dog and a taco.

With a taco, the shell remains upright as the head is cocked. With a hot dog, the bun remains upright (which is to say the cut end remains upright, though the bottom of the bun itself may or may not be at the bottom, depending on how it's cut) and the head remains upright.
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What are they when they fall apart after simply picking them up?
 
TexRex
Duke's is what I go for if I'm buying it.
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That is one I've wanted to try myself, and not just because it is the goto mayo for LGR when he makes his sandwiches.
(well it is mostly because of that and I love his Duke Nukem impressions especially when he talks about the mayo lolz)
 
Grand Prix
Does that include things like trees wrapped in tree bark? Does that include an animal covered in skin? If not, why not?
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Yes those are sandwiches. And I don't even require the substrate on either side of the sandwiched layer to be uniform material. For example, a pizza, even with perfectly thin crust, is still a sandwich because it's a layer of tomato sauce sandwiched between dough and cheese.
 
TexRex
Is Duke's not available in St. Louis? Mayo is super easy in a blender, but Duke's is what I go for if I'm buying it.
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Have never heard of it.

I did a quick search and apparently we do have it in stores. Guess I'll have to look for it and see if I can find it next time I'm at the store.
 

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