Is it time to bin Sport Mode?

[mthomas_95]

The easiest way for PD to reduce the number of A and S DR guys would be reducing the DR available in Daily Races (especially A/B). More and more top S/S guys aren't touching them anymore as the risk of losing a heap of DR and SR is not worth a negligible gain at best.

So now you get people getting to S without having really raced the very top guys often. They can compete against decent A drivers, but the laptime difference between mid-A and mid-S is something like 2 seconds a lap on average round somewhere like Nurburgring GP or Suzuka. PD are telling these drivers they are 'super', then they end up in an FIA lobby with Lightning and are 3 seconds off pole

 

[Voodoovaj]

*Edited/deleted. Way off topic.

I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE



But seriously, the penalties are fine IMHO at the moment. They aren't perfect, but they are far better than they were a few weeks ago and there is sufficient fear of contact that people generally try to avoid it. It could be better, but that unrelated to Sport Mode since you might want penalties in place in lobbies as well, depending on how serious the racing is.

Sport mode is too limited though. Rather than polishing the the presentation of Sport Mode races or adding events to GT League, they should be expanding Sport Mode.

 

[Mr616]

@PirovacBoy Always a pleasure racing you. Top bloke, and fast as fook

 

[Gary Purdy]

I see little but complaining about the endless tweaks to the broken penalty system in Sport Mode.

Is it time to do what we did in GT6 to get clean racing? Do it ourselves...

It seems relying on ANY automated stewarding is utterly futile, matchmaking doesn't solve anything (it mitigates it, but doesn't solve it). I have yet to find the same 24/7 clean racing I could find online in GT6. And the only difference is, in GT6 we did it all ourselves.

Perhaps it is time to realize Sport Mode is barely better than Quick Race, which was rarely quick, and usually dirty! Yes, it's more work for the host (host has to set up the room with a 'Clean or Kick' title - all that typing, rats!), it is more work for the players (we have to steward ourselves rather than relying on a moron computer to do it!), it is more bruising to our egos (when we get kicked for breaking the rules rather than getting a smaller penalty than the player we hit!).

Surely it's time to admit, after over six months of tweaking, that PD simply cannot make a fair race stewarding system. No-one else can either, so there's no shame, no need for mass seppuku! But, for me at least, the blush is off the rose. The benefits of seemingly easy matchmaking haven't outweighed the huge backwards step in clean racing. Not to mention the smaller choice in track/car/tire than we used to have.

So long, Sport Mode. A good idea, but ultimately, a huge failure.

The penalty system is still useless, I'm fed up getting shunted from behind or going into braking area's or through corners and getting anything from 2 second penalty's all the way to a 10 second penalty

 

[Outspacer]

You're giving yourself too little credit. If you can stick behind the likes of Twissy I think you're a bonafide S/S, or a very high A/S if PD matches us accordingly

But I think the reason why some people get an underserving S/S is because of the current Elo system the points reward system use. Because the net amount of points that is added and deducted across the whole field after the race should equal to zero, you will almost always gain points if you're in the upper half, hence why "slow" S/S drivers are a thing

Don't forget a fair number probably got DR S through the buggy DR resets boosting them to 50k. Also, DR S is the widest group for some reason (50k .. 75k) so actually there can be a lot of difference in rating amongst that, perhaps enough to match the variance in skill you subjectively see.

In my experience, DR has been working pretty well. As an "almost S" it's very rare for a DR B to give me any bother, and sometimes I'll beat a DR S... in other words, as you'd expect for someone with my rating.

 

[cleanLX]

That may be the most naïve thing I've ever read on the Internet!

Lol... yes, wishful thinking I guess.

 

[FUNanywhere]

I would probably relax in lobby now than take it seriously. There is no threat to SR DR.

Sport mode it is now. Also pen system is vastly improved now for the better.dont know what is problem with soort mode.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

A human race steward wouldn't change the fact that people think they have been treated unfairly. Just look at real world racing. Professional drivers know the rules a lot better than the average GTS player and they still think they are treated unfairly most of the time when they receive a penalty.

I am not denying that the system could be improved in places but given the fact that people can apply different limits to their safety comfort zone than in real life as they do not need to conserve their car, health, reputation and chance for a new driver contract, the system is working just fine.

You're right with about everything and I fully respect your opinion. Mine is ( still ) different though.
Don't get me wrong, it's no complaint, more of a statement, that the current penalty system sadly is not working fine imo - addressing about 50 percent to the wrong drivers is not good enough - and that I'm afraid it never will.
You remember we all had high hopes that SR and penalties will separate the clean from the dirty, honest racers from DR hunters etc., still it doesn't do the job.
Maybe we all can agree it needs a major overhaul ... and I was as free as to think whether a complete absence of penalties could work better.

 

[fastone371]

I really enjoy racing in sport mode. My wife says all I do is bitch and cuss at other drivers but I have fun with it. I wish there were longer races, maybe some 30 lap races requiring multiple pit stops. I would also like to see a daily race with damage on and see how that changes the driving habits of some, they would need to get the ghosting issues solved ahead of time though.

 

[JamboGT]

While it isn't perfectly clean am finding it to be far cleaner than lobby racing in any other racing game I have played bar iRacing.

 

[graveltrap]

If the stats site is to be believed Sport mode is a huge failure, 74 percent of players that have logged into / bought GT sport haven’t run a single race, with only 6 percent of those that bought the game going onto compete more than 20 sport mode races...

Why is that?

Whilst the game mode should not be dropped, it does seem to need to be changed to engage the people that buy the game and not just those that frequent GT Plant

 

[Alpha Cipher]

The easiest way for PD to reduce the number of A and S DR guys would be reducing the DR available in Daily Races (especially A/B). More and more top S/S guys aren't touching them anymore as the risk of losing a heap of DR and SR is not worth a negligible gain at best.

So now you get people getting to S without having really raced the very top guys often. They can compete against decent A drivers, but the laptime difference between mid-A and mid-S is something like 2 seconds a lap on average round somewhere like Nurburgring GP or Suzuka. PD are telling these drivers they are 'super', then they end up in an FIA lobby with Lightning and are 3 seconds off pole

But DR gains at S rank is already 100-300... What else do you want? 50 points? Or 5?
And okay, honestly, while 3 seconds off the pace from Lightning may be slow, 2 seconds is fairly fast and 1 second nets you a Top 10. Using Lightning is a skewed result

Don't forget a fair number probably got DR S through the buggy DR resets boosting them to 50k. Also, DR S is the widest group for some reason (50k .. 75k) so actually there can be a lot of difference in rating amongst that, perhaps enough to match the variance in skill you subjectively see.

In my experience, DR has been working pretty well. As an "almost S" it's very rare for a DR B to give me any bother, and sometimes I'll beat a DR S... in other words, as you'd expect for someone with my rating.

The wide range of DR at S could be a reason, and yeah I forgot about the ones who used resets. I think those may be the reason why I see such a gap

Your ratings may accurately reflect your skill level, but for others I repetitively see people who are DR S but are in midfield. They'd qualify 5-6th and finish there. Definitely enough to gain points, but midfield

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well, I understand where the OP is coming from now.

Against my better judgement, I entered the Monza race...There went the SR and DR in two corners (crashed from behind, etc, etc, from S/S to A/A). So, then I tried the Blue Moon race and OMG!!!!

WHAT IN THE NAME OF ALL THIS IS HOLY IS PD THINKING WITH THE PENALTIES?????????

There was absolutely NO attempt by anyone to avoid contact. On the contrary, several drivers were deliberately making contact (pitt maneuver, etc). It was as if penalties were turned off. When the A and S level penalties got dialed back, I thought that was ok. I had no idea that the penalties varied THIS widely between divisions. How can anyone consider this to be acceptable?

The penalties need to be the same across the board from the top tiers on down because what is in place now is unbelievable. That's not hyperbole! I seriously can't believe that people in the lower ranks deal with that. I sure wouldn't. I'm glad I was on down in that mess for one race.

 

[DR_MOJO91]

I'm not much of a complainer and what not but I was wondering what OP's stats are like on sport mode? Sport Mode frustrates people simply due on part because of the community. If a guy was gonna race dirty with me, I'm giving it back, ain't no peaceful racing from me with dirty drivers especially the Brazilians (Not all just from my experience).

 

[Outspacer]

The wide range of DR at S could be a reason, and yeah I forgot about the ones who used resets. I think those may be the reason why I see such a gap

Your ratings may accurately reflect your skill level, but for others I repetitively see people who are DR S but are in midfield. They'd qualify 5-6th and finish there. Definitely enough to gain points, but midfield

5th / 6th isn't enough to gain useful points unless most of the field is DR S though, in which case fair enough - well earned points! Maybe come out even-ish if they are low S in a more mixed field.

What I mean is my rank matches my skill level relative to most of those I get matched with... meaning they seem to be mostly appropriately ranked as well. For sure the outliers get noticed more, but actually to me most seem about right.

 

[shaunus]

There are however, to many at DR:S who shouldn't be there. Likewise DR:A.

I get the feeling PD are to scared to call people average. I'm on my way to DR:S but no way should I be there. I consider S to be the absolute best. The pinnacle and it just isn't at the moment. DR:S should be an elite (and smaller group) group, but the driving on display says otherwise. To bigger spread of pace in DR:S and maybe even DR:A imo

DR-S is the top 1% or whatever. If you got there you are in the top 1%. It is by no means easy to get there, and the vast majority will never ever do so. It is never intended to mean more than it means. I get you would like a 'P' pro class of something with only 100 or whatever places for the top top guys but it isnt a thing.

Anyone in S is very fast and very solid. People who are reasonably quick are in A. The average guys like me are in B or down into C. The muppets are in D and E. It makes perfect sense to me.

The FIA stuff gives a chance to really stand out over a season of more serious races I would think.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

5th / 6th isn't enough to gain useful points unless most of the field is DR S though, in which case fair enough - well earned points! Maybe come out even-ish if they are low S in a more mixed field.

What I mean is my rank matches my skill level relative to most of those I get matched with... meaning they seem to be mostly appropriately ranked as well. For sure the outliers get noticed more, but actually to me most seem about right.

Knowing that you're the one who reverse-engineered the Elo system in GTS, I think you're pretty well versed in what you say so knowing that 5-6th won't increase the DR of an S driver, I'm starting to think that the midfield S I see are exclusively the ones who use resets

 

[05XR8]

Hey, PDI pitched the game to be for 7-77 year olds(in this site, up 87, I think). Having the game for 3 weeks, I dont mind it. I never touched PC1/PC2, AC and F7(I did FH3 though) online.

GTS is pretty damn good.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Bin Sport Mode and you don't really have anything else to do in the game... The offline content is crap, mainly due to terrible AI and lobbies? Don't even bother with them, all sorts of shenanigans go down there. You would be very lucky to find one with any clean racing.

 

[Outspacer]

Knowing that you're the one who reverse-engineered the Elo system in GTS, I think you're pretty well versed in what you say so knowing that 5-6th won't increase the DR of an S driver, I'm starting to think that the midfield S I see are exclusively the ones who use resets

If they're starting around the same position as DR Bs and As, then it's quite likely, yeah. I'm thinking most cases probably weren't deliberate though - like, they might have got to DR A on merit and then had problems with the increased penalties handed out, then as they cleaned up their act their DR letter would increase to match the points.

Anyway, the DR resets have been reworked (can you guess? yes, it's harsher!) so maybe they've fixed it resetting upwards. Too soon to tell really. It would be better if they just got rid of them entirely, and only dropped the DR letter (so people get matched with lower ranks and won't gain many points from them, but have a lot to lose).

 

[mthomas_95]

But DR gains at S rank is already 100-300... What else do you want? 50 points? Or 5?

It's still possible to gain thousands even at mid S in the FIA lobbies where the top S race now, you're only getting a couple of hundred because higher ranked guys are avoiding Daily Races because there's nothing to gain. I'd get no DR at all for winning a Daily Race, which is fair because if I get beaten by anyone I deserve to lose points because they're lower ranked (unless they also happen to be at the 75k cap).

 

[anthonyfa18]

I really hope tonight up date will fix sport mode, Tonight in the daily races I got penalties for cars spinning out in from of me with out even touching them, and then I get push in the wall by Another car and I get another penalty it makes no sense to me. And then I was so mad so I quit the race I lost over 2000dr and my 99sr went to 82 wtf, if this happen agine I will only do Lobby races and **** the sport mode, Please pd can we go back to real racing

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I did mean, abandon the "reset" (hand of the almighty) all together.
I see your points regarding ghosting, and could live with them... but would like to see what no ghosting would play like... I typically avoid ghosted cars (cannot bring myself to drive through them)... maybe it would create even higher "awareness"... maybe it would be a disaster...

It certainly is mighty confusing when you're battling another car in your lap, while 2 lapped cars are battling each other weaving through your battle. Party of 4, who to avoid, who will drive through me.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

How exactly did you go three laps down to AI?

Sorry for late reply - was too busy racing last night.

Very embarassing that one actually. It was a race at Northern Lights Speedway and I managed to spin out the car after turn one and took an absolute age to correct it and then got rammed by the AI again so by the time I was back on track I'd been lapped 3 times by the lead car.

 

[MatskiMonk]

If the stats site is to be believed Sport mode is a huge failure, 74 percent of players that have logged into / bought GT sport haven’t run a single race, with only 6 percent of those that bought the game going onto compete more than 20 sport mode races...

Why is that?

Whilst the game mode should not be dropped, it does seem to need to be changed to engage the people that buy the game and not just those that frequent GT Plant

As one of the 94%, I accept that it's not really possible for PD to 'engage' me with an online racing mode - too many drawbacks, not enough benefits - and I don't think it's reasonable to expect PD to change that as, at best, it could compromise the game mode for the people that already enjoy it. Not all aspects of a racing game will click with all players, that's why variety is important - at least for a mass market title.

 

[Veinz]

I just want more variety in it, it doesn't need to go anywhere. Sport mode has been some of the best racing I've experienced.

 

[KK78]

I just want more variety in it, it doesn't need to go anywhere. Sport mode has been some of the best racing I've experienced.

I'd agree with that, I'd love to see more races added including one which is basically the same class all week but only in Gr.4, GR.3 or Gr.1 so you can really get stuck into a class. Also weekly endurance race would be fantastic, maybe 15-30 laps.

The XP payouts need to be much larger too to give all drivers more incentive to participate and to do so fairly (i.e if you drive like a tool your XP payout is small but be good and you'll earn big)

 

[Nando deBem]

The easiest way for PD to reduce the number of A and S DR guys would be reducing the DR available in Daily Races (especially A/B). More and more top S/S guys aren't touching them anymore as the risk of losing a heap of DR and SR is not worth a negligible gain at best.

So now you get people getting to S without having really raced the very top guys often. They can compete against decent A drivers, but the laptime difference between mid-A and mid-S is something like 2 seconds a lap on average round somewhere like Nurburgring GP or Suzuka. PD are telling these drivers they are 'super', then they end up in an FIA lobby with Lightning and are 3 seconds off pole

They are super. They’ve raced everyone else and won.

I'm not much of a complainer and what not but I was wondering what OP's stats are like on sport mode? Sport Mode frustrates people simply due on part because of the community. If a guy was gonna race dirty with me, I'm giving it back, ain't no peaceful racing from me with dirty drivers especially the Brazilians (Not all just from my experience).

Oh boy... don’t want to go off topic, but...
Almost every Brazilian I see is aggressive, but not dirty. I’m Brazilian and aggressive, but not dirty... 9 out of 10 times I’ve met someone really dirty cutting corners and pushing people off track, they were Americans. How come they are the politeness standard in the Americas?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Oh boy... don’t want to go off topic, but...
Almost every Brazilian I see is aggressive, but not dirty. I’m Brazilian and aggressive, but not dirty... 9 out of 10 times I’ve met someone really dirty cutting corners and pushing people off track, they were Americans. How come they are the politeness standard in the Americas?

I thought you're Canadian

I'm not much of a complainer and what not but I was wondering what OP's stats are like on sport mode? Sport Mode frustrates people simply due on part because of the community. If a guy was gonna race dirty with me, I'm giving it back, ain't no peaceful racing from me with dirty drivers especially the Brazilians (Not all just from my experience).

From my experience though, these vigilante acts ruin races almost as much as dirty drivers. If you can keep it to yourself, then it's all good, but it rarely happens. Just because you didn't do any collateral damage yourself doesn't mean the driver who punted you off won't as well. If anything he might get even more aggressive as he's now actively hunting you out in his own act of vigilantism. It's a vicious cycle

 

[Nando deBem]

I thought you're Canadian

From my experience though, these vigilante acts ruin races almost as much as dirty drivers. If you can keep it to yourself, then it's all good, but it rarely happens. Just because you didn't do any collateral damage yourself doesn't mean the driver who punted you off won't as well. If anything he might get even more aggressive as he's now actively hunting you out in his own act of vigilantism. It's a vicious cycle

I live in Canada, but I’m Brazilian.