Is Polyphony Digital making a significant mistake by omitting career mode?

[snowgt]

Because Gran Turismo is ultimately a game too. Sometimes you have to throw reality out the window for a chuckle. What's the issue with having a the 911 RSR in group 3? GT3 cars and GTE cars are more or less almost the same. I feel like this is just needless nitpicking now.

The issue is that a GTE-car has a fundamentally different power/downforce balance. If you try to fit this into a GT3-based BoP, you will end up with a car that is nothing like the real 911RSR in a game that pretends to be a simulation of reality.

I’m sorry, but this is a sign of giving up on any reality based approach, as is the plethora of VGTs and PD-invented versions of cars.

 

[Ryan81]

I believe it is a mistake, yes but then they have cut down the car list drastically so it would be difficult to have a meaningful career mode with 4 classes.
It's not just quantity but quality. Look at PCars 2. That only has 187 cars but they have so many disciplines along with road legal cars. GTS' car roster is basically GT3 (not all of which are real life models) Group 4 (99% fictional) and shed loads of VGTs.
You can't make a good offline career mode with those (with all due respect)

Pcars 2 has GT1, GT3, GTE, GT4, GT5, Formula, Group A, Vintage A, B, C, D, Group C, Group 5, Group 6, GTO, LMP900 etc.

 

[hardvibes]

I know people who canceled their pre-order because of it. Yes it is a mistake, and I'm saying this even if I'm not an avid offline/career mode player.

 

[another_jakhole]

Don't give a hoot. We're nearly two decades into the 21st century. Things were bound to change after two decades of a similar GT. There are starving children around the world. Help those poor bastards, instead of crying about how you're done with this franchise.


Coming from an offline player. Played 95% of GT5 offline and 85% of GT6 offline.

 

[Jump_Ace]

No. Do I need to lap the AI when I race, what does that get me? Memorizing tracks is about all it gets me. Yes, it's fun to grind and buy cars, but not to the extent they've made us grind with the last two iterations. Why not earn money when racing online with real competition and get better as you progress and buy/upgrade cars? I used to care about career mode, until I realized it doesn't really do anything to make me a better driver.


Jerome

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Don't give a hoot. We're nearly two decades into the 21st century. Things were bound to change after two decades of a similar GT. There are starving children around the world. Help those poor bastards, instead of crying about how you're done with this franchise.


Coming from an offline player. Played 95% of GT5 offline and 85% of GT6 offline.

You can change things by improving them, not getting rid of them completely. And not sure what starving children have to do with this discussion.

No. Do I need to lap the AI when I race, what does that get me? Memorizing tracks is about all it gets me. Yes, it's fun to grind and buy cars, but not to the extent they've made us grind with the last two iterations. Why not earn money when racing online with real competition and get better as you progress and buy/upgrade cars? I used to care about career mode, until I realized it doesn't really do anything to make me a better driver.


Jerome

Why not? Personally, I don't care about the competitive aspect of racing games. It's not what I play them for. Completing a career mode and over coming the challenges that the game developers put there is what I enjoy most.

And if lobbies in GT5 and GT6 were any indication, not everyone cares about developing their skills as a driver, or even having a serious race for that matter. It's why I have doubts about how well GTS is going to be received.

I agree that trying to earn cars in GT5 and GT6 was a chore but making the career mode more engaging and less grindy was also an option. It's not like throwing it out was the only choice PD had.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Omitting a traditional GT career mode rather than simply trying to fix it is quite a significant step backwards. Not everyone wants to be forced to play online in a situation where more often than not, they'll be the ones getting rammed off at the first corner by all those 12 year olds who think brakes are for Mario Kart noobs.

Some people, especially traditionalists like myself, would rather get more satisfaction out of a traditional GT Mode career than have a torrid time playing online with the general public.

People who don't like general online play and long-term GT traditionalists would be much more satisfied if PD would simply fix the core issues of Career and AI. We know that PD is capable of delivering, we just don't know what's keeping them from actually doing so.

 

[elston87]

I wouldn't say that they're "making a mistake", per say, but the shift in their new desired direction is going to alienate an amount of players and possibly reduce the amount of replay value.

Since a huge focus of the game is going to involve competing against other players online (at least, what we know so far), those used to the traditional Gran Turismo career structure that consists of the game's offline content portion are going to probably find themselves playing the game for a significantly lesser amount of time before they shelve it, or sell it.

For those without favorable online gaming conditions, I don't think that the Driving Challenges/Mission and a few races in Arcade Mode every now and then are going to justify playing the game in long-term. Your mileage may vary, of course. My opinion sits in the middle of the interstate, so I'll wait and see which exit my opinion gets off at.

 

[Jump_Ace]

You can change things by improving them, not getting rid of them completely. And not sure what starving children have to do with this discussion.



Why not? Personally, I don't care about the competitive aspect of racing games. It's not what I play them for. Completing a career mode and over coming the challenges that the game developers put there is what I enjoy most.

And if lobbies in GT5 and GT6 were any indication, not everyone cares about developing their skills as a driver, or even having a serious race for that matter. It's why I have doubts about how well GTS is going to be received.

I agree that trying to earn cars in GT5 and GT6 was a chore but making the career mode more engaging and less grindy was also an option. It's not like throwing it out was the only choice PD had.

True, they didn't have to, and I will say if they made it less grindy I would enjoy it (more). In a perfect world, they'd do that and give us an AI difficulty slider #daretodream


Jerome

 

[VBR]

Another problem with no career mode & online racing being the main focus is this; not everybody has a connection that suits GT games. For instance, in GT5 & GT6 some people had great connections, & others had terrible ones with lag, disconnects, & bugs etc. And some of the guys with great ISP packages & wired routers had the worst problems. One guy I knew from Canada was using a wireless connection in the next room & was stable as could be on my screen & I'm in the UK! If your set up is bad in GT Sport, there's probably not a lot you're gonna be able to do about it.

 

[FT-1]

It really depends on how the reward system is setup for online races. The average player will win far fewer races online than they would offline, and most people have associated winning with good progress thanks to career mode in past GT games. If someone used to winning every race offline is playing for hours without a race win online, they are going to feel pretty unsatisfied with their progress.

I'm pretty sure I have seen this discussed in the general discussion thread somewhere but GT Sport needs some sort of "micro-win" structure so that players which miss out on podium spots are rewarded for completing a race as well as meeting other objectives. Furthermore, it will make players far less likely to quit due to hanging around in last place.

On a side note - if Seasonal Events are regularly added, that's a decent substitute for A-Spec races in my opinion.

 

[Dreadmed]

It would be more of an issue if the AI in Gran Turismo was anything to shout about, but one of the series existential flaws has been precisely that, the competitiveness of the other "drivers". With the reduction in car & track counts, an extensive career/campaign isn't really feasible without running into the risk of bloat/repetition.

I've been re-playing GT5 recently and the one-size-fits all difficulty has gotten so tiring to deal with, not to mention the passivity in a lot of cases (coasting/braking after I pull alongside to overtake). When I grabbed GRID Autosport last year on sale it was, and I'm not kidding, a shock to be racing against AI that seemed to realise they were in a race. Granted there were a few too many banzai moves that should never have been attempted, but it made the whole single-player experience so much more enjoyable.

From what I've seen there are obvious signs of improvement in GTS. However (I seem to remember @sems4arsenal bringing this up) difficulty sliders would be really welcome this time around. Heck, in my opinion they should've been introduced years ago, but better late then never.

 

[SavageEvil]

What basis are you going by to make such a statement? Not sure if you ever played any GT before but GT had nothing resembling a career mode ever! In fact I don't think outside of the labels grouping races together there was much of a structure, only thing preventing you from entering at the beginning was lack of having the correct vehicle and/or a competitive one. For a career mode try Project Cars or any of the F1 games, those have career modes, GT never seen any sort of career within it.

GT had this way to keep you playing, by dangling the carrot and directing you to jump through hoops here and there. If you call that a career mode kudos to you, but to me that isn't even close to a career of any kind. PD simply repurposed the pointless races of rabbit catcher into something else that will benefit those who seek to race online with others. I mean it sort of makes sense to have driving lessons aimed at showing how to conduct yourself in a game that seeks to have everyone learn how to race the right way. While talk of handing out real licenses(certain countries) and racing competitively for fame or fun online is part of the package. Even if you don't care about the license, a chance to learn more than you know shouldn't be seen as a negative in any area.

This GT doesn't seem to change too much at it's core though, you still get offline modes of grind only this time with a purpose for the campaign. Hey look at that, structure?!? How is this bad? So let me pose a question, how is GT Sport campaign different really? I still see a way to make credits, multiple ways actually, offline still lets you get your credits to buy your cars and it has a defined offline mode end. So ultimately nothing about the main core of single player went anywhere, it's just dressed up differently but you get the same end result even if the psychological ones aren't exactly the same. I applaud PD for not doing the exact same thing they already did for the past 6 games, enough is enough a change is necessary once in a while.

So do we really have much of a case of GT Sport "omitted" career? Shouldn't it be GT Sport career isn't the same simpleminded grind we we're used to? GT Sport has far worse failings to rectify such as lack of dynamic weather and time, having a huge roster of autos to try and enjoy, actual real motor sport career to embark on(I'd never play this part though). Pretty sure that custom races will fill your ache of wanting to chase rabbits around the course for credits. For me I prefer to find good competition online as I did with GT 5/6 and in Forza 2-6. Single player became a chore in GT3 so GT4's huge offline was a pain, only redeemed by some excellent course additions that haven't come back yet and car roster along with Mission Mode.
Sampling the Beta online I have confidence that this choice to give ratings based on performance and player behavior to be a smart, flawed but has potential to grow to become something that will work far more than it doesn't.

GT 1 through 4
100%
offline grind of races to get credits and free cars

GT 5 and 6
~80%/20% split at the most
Offline grind of races to get credits and free cars
online grind of seasonal races to get credits and free cars
custom lobbies grind for credits

GT Sport
still seems to be overwhelmingly offline at around 75%/25% content wise, I don't count Photo mode since no mention of earning credits there.
*Offline grind of missions and lessons to get credits and free cars
offline grind of arcade mode/custom races to get credits
online grind of Sport mode races to win credits and possibly cars
**online grind of possibly seasonal(?)
online grind of custom/public lobbies to win credits

Running theme in older GT's is winning credits with a side helping of free cars here and there. Main objective playing offline was credit hoarding to buy all the cars in the game if you couldn't win them elsewhere, beyond that there weren't many other reasons for playing campaign mode in GT games at all. GT Sport seems to include a lot of the same things, grinding for credits/cars by repeatedly running the same races, but custom races has the ability to not be so repetitive since it's custom, although some will somehow even complain about that.

Why are so many people adamant about racing in that flawed and archaic setup GT has always had? How are we even judging GT Sports without actually trying it for ourselves? This has no basis at all, can the OP even back up his claim of "omitted career mode"? Let's sit back and wait until we have better information, I personally have no qualms about the loss of the rabbit chase, it was 🤬 boring. Now if Sport manages to enlighten me to how much of a not so great online racer I am, I'd be happy which to me is worth more than all the grinding I have had to put up with these past 19 years. So if I learn from GT Sports campaign mode more than how to drive around a course without going off that'll be far more than I learned from any of the driving games I've played all my life.

Anyone wager to point out what about GT was actually lost with this campaign mode, aside from lowering it's nigh 100% race based grind? It seems to check all the boxes, racing or completing tasks for credit payouts, using said credits to purchase cars you aren't awarded elsewhere or cars you want and getting free cars as rewards here and there. Isn't it the packaging that's confusing everyone, from where I sit I barely see much of a difference in it's core aside from the focus on teaching basic reasonable behavior for racing both online and IRL. From the list of ways to progress through the game GT Sport is pretty much more accessible than the previous games and sporting far less cars to boot. I think many people are just upset with the loss of the familiar, but if you can get your credits and win your cars at the end of the day, what's the actual difference? Anything less repetitive is a win, custom races in arcade mode sounds like GT2's random event generator which for me is something I enjoyed to no end in GT2 after 100%(that and Red Rock Valley).

Key point is GT Sport is attempting to give you more than credits and cars, but a little how to race within the rules and do so competitively and fairly as possible. Why are we complaining again? Are we upset the game is trying to teach us something? That's probably it, lol. Pretentious developer, how dare you try to tell me I need to learn something. Let me have my fun regardless of how wanton it is./s

This is my take on the whole campaign mode, just my opinion on what I see it as in comparison to everything else I have had the courtesy to enjoy for the time I spent with those games. GT Sport isn't remotely perfect by any stretch but at least it's not simply resting on past glories and knocking out the exact same thing it gave us the last time all over again. They at least curated a list of cars which they seemingly fully intend to use for whatever they main objective is, from the outset restricted classes that cars cannot migrate between. Hmm no wonder we don't have the regular car modification out of the box, wonder how long until I returns to GT. Ah well I am ready to experience this in full either way, since the Beta gave me a good showing and each successive tidbit shows that they really went full focus. I expect GT Academy to be literally run right in GT Sport and not some side loaded program just for it. Smells like GT as a service is about to make it's debut not too long after GT Sport ships.

*Not sure if those missions are repeatable and dole out credits once you clear them with a gold.
**Not sure if PD will institute this again in GT's online, so don't take that as confirmation of anything.

 

[Danisfast]

I have been reading the comments and noticed a bit of a trend with some of them. Thankfully, others have already mentioned this, but I hall echo those sentiments.

I am not suggesting that this game should focus on the GT mode INSTEAD of online. I'm saying that it should be developed AS WELL AS online.

In other words; refine, don't remove.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

What basis are you going by to make such a statement? Not sure if you ever played any GT before but GT had nothing resembling a career mode ever! In fact I don't think outside of the labels grouping races together there was much of a structure, only thing preventing you from entering at the beginning was lack of having the correct vehicle and/or a competitive one. For a career mode try Project Cars or any of the F1 games, those have career modes, GT never seen any sort of career within it.

GT had this way to keep you playing, by dangling the carrot and directing you to jump through hoops here and there. If you call that a career mode kudos to you, but to me that isn't even close to a career of any kind. PD simply repurposed the pointless races of rabbit catcher into something else that will benefit those who seek to race online with others. I mean it sort of makes sense to have driving lessons aimed at showing how to conduct yourself in a game that seeks to have everyone learn how to race the right way. While talk of handing out real licenses(certain countries) and racing competitively for fame or fun online is part of the package. Even if you don't care about the license, a chance to learn more than you know shouldn't be seen as a negative in any area.

This GT doesn't seem to change too much at it's core though, you still get offline modes of grind only this time with a purpose for the campaign. Hey look at that, structure?!? How is this bad? So let me pose a question, how is GT Sport campaign different really? I still see a way to make credits, multiple ways actually, offline still lets you get your credits to buy your cars and it has a defined offline mode end. So ultimately nothing about the main core of single player went anywhere, it's just dressed up differently but you get the same end result even if the psychological ones aren't exactly the same. I applaud PD for not doing the exact same thing they already did for the past 6 games, enough is enough a change is necessary once in a while.

So do we really have much of a case of GT Sport "omitted" career? Shouldn't it be GT Sport career isn't the same simpleminded grind we we're used to? GT Sport has far worse failings to rectify such as lack of dynamic weather and time, having a huge roster of autos to try and enjoy, actual real motor sport career to embark on(I'd never play this part though). Pretty sure that custom races will fill your ache of wanting to chase rabbits around the course for credits. For me I prefer to find good competition online as I did with GT 5/6 and in Forza 2-6. Single player became a chore in GT3 so GT4's huge offline was a pain, only redeemed by some excellent course additions that haven't come back yet and car roster along with Mission Mode.
Sampling the Beta online I have confidence that this choice to give ratings based on performance and player behavior to be a smart, flawed but has potential to grow to become something that will work far more than it doesn't.

GT 1 through 4
100%
offline grind of races to get credits and free cars

GT 5 and 6
~80%/20% split at the most
Offline grind of races to get credits and free cars
online grind of seasonal races to get credits and free cars
custom lobbies grind for credits

GT Sport
still seems to be overwhelmingly offline at around 75%/25% content wise, I don't count Photo mode since no mention of earning credits there.
*Offline grind of missions and lessons to get credits and free cars
offline grind of arcade mode/custom races to get credits
online grind of Sport mode races to win credits and possibly cars
**online grind of possibly seasonal(?)
online grind of custom/public lobbies to win credits

Running theme in older GT's is winning credits with a side helping of free cars here and there. Main objective playing offline was credit hoarding to buy all the cars in the game if you couldn't win them elsewhere, beyond that there weren't many other reasons for playing campaign mode in GT games at all. GT Sport seems to include a lot of the same things, grinding for credits/cars by repeatedly running the same races, but custom races has the ability to not be so repetitive since it's custom, although some will somehow even complain about that.

Why are so many people adamant about racing in that flawed and archaic setup GT has always had? How are we even judging GT Sports without actually trying it for ourselves? This has no basis at all, can the OP even back up his claim of "omitted career mode"? Let's sit back and wait until we have better information, I personally have no qualms about the loss of the rabbit chase, it was 🤬 boring. Now if Sport manages to enlighten me to how much of a not so great online racer I am, I'd be happy which to me is worth more than all the grinding I have had to put up with these past 19 years. So if I learn from GT Sports campaign mode more than how to drive around a course without going off that'll be far more than I learned from any of the driving games I've played all my life.

Anyone wager to point out what about GT was actually lost with this campaign mode, aside from lowering it's nigh 100% race based grind? It seems to check all the boxes, racing or completing tasks for credit payouts, using said credits to purchase cars you aren't awarded elsewhere or cars you want and getting free cars as rewards here and there. Isn't it the packaging that's confusing everyone, from where I sit I barely see much of a difference in it's core aside from the focus on teaching basic reasonable behavior for racing both online and IRL. From the list of ways to progress through the game GT Sport is pretty much more accessible than the previous games and sporting far less cars to boot. I think many people are just upset with the loss of the familiar, but if you can get your credits and win your cars at the end of the day, what's the actual difference? Anything less repetitive is a win, custom races in arcade mode sounds like GT2's random event generator which for me is something I enjoyed to no end in GT2 after 100%(that and Red Rock Valley).

Key point is GT Sport is attempting to give you more than credits and cars, but a little how to race within the rules and do so competitively and fairly as possible. Why are we complaining again? Are we upset the game is trying to teach us something? That's probably it, lol. Pretentious developer, how dare you try to tell me I need to learn something. Let me have my fun regardless of how wanton it is./s

This is my take on the whole campaign mode, just my opinion on what I see it as in comparison to everything else I have had the courtesy to enjoy for the time I spent with those games. GT Sport isn't remotely perfect by any stretch but at least it's not simply resting on past glories and knocking out the exact same thing it gave us the last time all over again. They at least curated a list of cars which they seemingly fully intend to use for whatever they main objective is, from the outset restricted classes that cars cannot migrate between. Hmm no wonder we don't have the regular car modification out of the box, wonder how long until I returns to GT. Ah well I am ready to experience this in full either way, since the Beta gave me a good showing and each successive tidbit shows that they really went full focus. I expect GT Academy to be literally run right in GT Sport and not some side loaded program just for it. Smells like GT as a service is about to make it's debut not too long after GT Sport ships.

*Not sure if those missions are repeatable and dole out credits once you clear them with a gold.
**Not sure if PD will institute this again in GT's online, so don't take that as confirmation of anything.

I think you're jumping to conclusions. No one's said anything about wanting the grind back. I'm not sure what OP meant by traditional GT career, but it doesn't necessarily mean grinding. Part of that are the huge amount of events to do, including endurance races, one-make races, special events, etc. That's what most of the previous GT games had in common in terms of single player. We have seen video footage of the campaign mode. Nothing I just mentioned is there. There are no race events where you can enter with your own car whatsoever; just a huge series of driving tutorials. In fact, we've known this since Copper Box over a year ago. That's what people aren't happy about.

And until we see what the custom race feature entails, you can't just assume that it will solve everyone's problems. Can we set up offline championship series with it? Can we individually choose what the AI drives? Just how much freedom is it going to give us? And even then, that feature won't give people the sense of progression they may be looking for. Some people still like starting out with the slowest cars and working there way up to the supercars and LMPs. And you can do this without making it feel like a grind. Other games have done it. PD just needed to think outside the box and execute their usual single player formula in a fresh new way, but instead they threw it all out and put a glorified driving school in its place.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Needless nitpicking? The whole game has been centered around a motorsports serious tone of esports. I think most competitors will have a problem trying to do a GT3 race around Tokyo Expressway, I think cars like the GT-R GT4 and the Megane will be extremely dispaired but all in the sake of throwing realism out of the windows for fun, right? Fun having a meta car that doesn't even comply to real world GT4 rules and just decimates everything.

From what I've played in the beta, there are no yellow flag rules, nothing to deter dirty racing, ghosting to 'prevent' crashes, etc etc. So nitpicking is kind of needed especially when we've been letting these little things get in the middle of enjoyment playing.

How so, have you ever seen the list of allowed/homologated GT4 cars and GT3/GTE cars? I'd have agreed with you on past iterations and issues with said games, but this is just bs nitpicking due to some irritation toward GT/PD. It's not logical, it's not objective and so why bother having a discussion? I take the same issue with those who defend PD in the same manner as well.

Look it boils down to this for everyone, if you don't like the aspect of online esport driven competition where a meta will obviously unfold, where BoP will constantly fluctuate and you are buying a game limited to that, don't buy it. It's really that simple, if this was GT7 then I could completely agree and understand the narrative some of you are coming out the woodwork with. However, this is not sensible, this doesn't have logic, and in reality is just a nostalgia driven rant from a group of people who don't like a different direction. PD make a product that we happen to like, they don't make a product that is specifically catered to us or for us, they are developers themselves at the end of the day and if this is the direction they'd like to take for a bit so be it.

PD have expressed from the drop what it was that people would be getting, and now that the product is less than a month out the ramp up of the lack of offline career and GT life is going to happen? This is the nth thread I've seen whining about this and yet no clearer of an argument has come.

 

[ImaRobot]

Look it boils down to this for everyone, if you don't like the aspect of online esport driven competition where a meta will obviously unfold, where BoP will constantly fluctuate and you are buying a game limited to that, don't buy it.

No thanks, I'll discuss it with people who agree but also disagree with me. That'll help me understand more, and likely teach me something I may have missed about the game potentially raising or lowering my interest. These discussions are just as logical as anything being posted(for the most part, but that's something not isolated to those disagreeing), you not agreeing doesn't change that.

What's not logical is saying "why bother having a discussion" but continue to discuss anyways.

PD have expressed from the drop what it was that people would be getting, and now that the product is less than a month out the ramp up of the lack of offline career and GT life is going to happen? This is the nth thread I've seen whining about this and yet no clearer of an argument has come

Not necessarily true either. They've insisted that nothing was drop and lead us to believe that a career mode was in place yet only to be let down when information was finally revealed sometime this year. If they'd just up and said the new career mode much resembles that of license test rather than leading us to believe both were still there, than you'd have a point. However, a lot was kept on the down low for a good majority of the time. That and things like online being only being 15% of the actual game lead people to hope otherwise. There is plenty of reason for the distaste and discussion hovering around it, even if you pretend there isn't.

Regardless of what they have said this game was from get go, apparently, this thread is specifically about the decisions they've made in that regard and how we feel about it so it's ridiculous coming in with such a viewpoint. As if we should just shut up because this is what they've decided. If that's what you feel, you're very much in the wrong thread as that had nothing to do with it and this was specifically made to discuss said decision.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No thanks, I'll discuss it with people who agree but also disagree with me. That'll help me understand more, and likely teach me something I may have missed about the game potentially raising or lowering my interest. These discussions are just as logical as anything being posted(for the most part, but that's something not isolated to those disagreeing), you not agreeing doesn't change that.

No, discussion about nostalgia and feelings on a title aren't privy to expanding any further than the wants and needs people place on the title, which is what my main critique was. What you've described is something different and akin to a discussion on the reasons why this game is an issue or not one. Which is different to someones feelings on it. Me not agreeing isn't saying an argument can't be had, you yourself seem to infer this for whatever reason.

What's not logical is saying "why bother having a discussion" but continue to discuss anyways.

No one said that, what was said was "hey here is the game, here is what PD have said the game will be like, you having expectations of it being like a certain other game title they happen to make is illogical." Then it expanded onward to, the fact that since this is known and since it doesn't align with what some are asking of PD, perhaps forgoing it and waiting for GT7 is better, thus sending a message that a large portion of the user base isn't interested in an esports standalone project. How you get this whimsical "why bother having a discussion" is beyond me, considering I've always entertained it.

Not necessarily true either. They've insisted that nothing was drop and lead us to believe that a career mode was in place yet only to be let down when information was finally revealed sometime this year. If they'd just up and said the new career mode much resembles that of license test rather than leading us to believe both were still there, than you'd have a point. However, a lot was kept on the down low for a good majority of the time. That and things like online being only being 15% of the actual game lead people to hope otherwise. There is plenty of reason for the distaste and discussion hovering around it, even if you pretend there isn't.

Regardless of what they have said this game was from get go, apparently, this thread is specifically about the decisions they've made in that regard and how we feel about it so it's ridiculous coming in with such a viewpoint. As if we should just shut up because this is what they've decided. If that's what you feel, you're very much in the wrong thread as that had nothing to do with it and this was specifically made to discuss said decision.

Sorry let me rephrase where I should have from the start, no where was it entertained that I recall or could find, that PD were going to introduce or create a career mode similar to that of the past games. Nor a GT Life mode. There is a career mode, yes. https://www.finder.com.au/gt-sport-career-mode. As you've pointed out you see it as a giant license test, if you want to show me where they said we could expect GT Life or Career mode like the past six main titles, that would help resolve a good portion of what I've said.

However this isn't considered the career mode that many have become familiar with, once again an issue I take because the myopic view of the game and lack of being willing to try out the change is a placeholder for the game being bad or a mistake. So no it's not ridiculous, it's a commentary on yet again speculation, failed expectation on unfounded grounds and unreasonable feelings toward a title, because it didn't do small detailed things certain users wanted. If you want to defend that that's fine, it wont move much from this point onward. How you've come to figure that one this is just a post to tell people to shut up is strange as is the suggestion I'm not looking to discuss, I mean I have you on my ignore user log and I still took the time to reply to your post.

 

[ImaRobot]

No, discussion about nostalgia and feelings on a title aren't privy to expanding any further than the wants and needs people place on the title, which is what my main critique was

Well then, again, you're in the wrong thread as this is specifically set up to discuss the career mode. What better place to make a comparison if not the past? It's valid and makes the most sense, regardless of what picture PD is painting.

No one said that,

You said literally that.

It's not logical, it's not objective and so why bother having a discussion?

if that's not what you meant then, I apologize, but that's very much how it comes across.

Sorry let me rephrase where I should have from the start, no where was it entertained that I recall or could find, that PD were going to introduce or create a career mode similar to that of the past games

No but with the inclusion of one you'd expect it to be better. I mean that's usually what people expect when a new game comes out. That and the fact that they said nothing was stopped from past iterations, do that would leave people to believe that both license test AND a career mode would be there. They are horribly vague, I'm sure we can both agree with that.

So no it's not ridiculous, it's a commentary on yet again speculation, failed expectation on unfounded grounds and unreasonable feelings toward a title

Yes, it's is and no it's not. A career mode is far from a minor detail. However if all you're talking about is specifically the opinion of the post you quoted originally, than that's a separate off topic point that I wasn't intending on replying about. It just made it seem, given the point of the topic, that you were bundling more than just what you quoted into that opinion. If you were not talking about issues people have about a career mode, or the lack of one than my mistake. If you are then the point very much stands.

Disagreeing and discussing something you're not fond of is not the same as not being willing to try it. Try not to conflate the two, yeah?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well then, again, you're in the wrong thread as this is specifically set up to discuss the career mode. What better place to make a comparison if not the past? It's valid and makes the most sense, regardless of what picture PD is painting.

I'm in the wrong thread how? Because someone wants to talk about unrealistic and unfounded expectations of a career mode and I'm not agreeing to be a yes man to that...? It's a forum people will disagree on various levels with you at some point or another. If you don't like my dissent of this thread that's fine, it's not going to change.

You said literally that.

No I said, it's illogical for people to have an expectation and emotional charge when it isn't met. You can't build or have a discussion around irrationality, hence the definition. In my original post I do say though, if people think they can explain their emotional outrage toward PD on the lack of certain features or complete absence, please explain it. If it is just a repeat of "well I grew up know this..." that's not an argument, that a rinse and repeat of what has been said.

No but with the inclusion of one you'd expect it to be better. I mean that's usually what people expect when a new game comes out. That and the fact that they said nothing was stopped from past iterations, do that would leave people to believe that both license test AND a career mode would be there. They are horribly vague, I'm sure we can both agree with that.

Better than what? It's a new platform, it's an esports platform game, it's not a GT game as we know it. So what expectation can you have when it is literally the first of its kind from the brand. It's like saying you'd have expected Pepsi in their first effort at making Orange Juice to taste or seem similar to their other freaking liquid beverages because they are known for making liquid beverages in general...

Your defense for people taking the largest common denominator and then argue everything form that is inane to me. As for PD being vague, I've never disagreed with that, but as far as what we can gleam from their written words, yous till can't just up and have some expectation. Then go about and say "well because they're so vague I can just use that as a defense". Not saying you're doing this but others have and I'd rather them not use this as a beacon to do so further even though it will happen.

Yes, it's is and no it's not. A career mode is far from a minor detail. However if all you're talking about is specifically the opinion of the past you quoted originally, than that's a separate of topic point that I want intending on replying about. It just made it seem, given the point of the topic, that you were bundling more than just what you quoted into that opinion. If you were not talking about issues people have than my mistake. If you are then the point very much stands.

Disagreeing and discussing something you're not fond of is not the same as not being willing to try it. Try not to conflate the two, yeah?

How is a career mode far from a minor detail...? If your context and idea is GT 1-6 sure, but that's the illusion you've built not PD. PD have advertised, said and tried to a degree (not the best it could be argued) that this wasn't to be the seventh iteration of said illusion. So to me seeing it for what it is, a new vision of GT and standalone to those before it, it does seem minor. Once again as I said in my original post, if this was GT7 and they were doing this, then I'd absolutely agree mistakes an many levels were made. However, I keep looking and seeing GTS as the title, so I'm still unconvinced.

If you want to get on the righteous horse, fine. I'm not conflating, so much as you seemingly coming in and figuring out that you obviously know what angle I'm talking from. Once again, while I main on the onset disagree with what is being said, I still am open and understanding enough that there is more to the argument than simple charged emotions so far given. So try not to assume, that it's a one size fits all. Now we can discuss the topic at hand like I have been or keep taking jabs at each other tit for tat. I'm not here for this higher than thou dick waving contest so much as I am to understand this constant barrage one way or the other at why people expect things that were never hinted. You seemed poised to have a discussion more about me the user, and less about my point which was topic related. Try not to conflate that.

 

[Rinsky]

Once again as I said in my original post, if this was GT7 and they were doing this, then I'd absolutely agree mistakes an many levels were made. However, I keep looking and seeing GTS as the title, so I'm still unconvinced.

Am I wrong on this but didn't PD say that GTS is not a prologue in between GT6 & GT7 and that it is the way the GT series is going now so there are no plans for a GT7?

If there was a GT7 coming in the foreseeable future I don't think alot of us would feel so bitter about GTS.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm in the wrong thread how? Because someone wants to talk about unrealistic and unfounded expectations of a career mode and I'm not agreeing to be a yes man to that...?

I was taking as him talking about an online appreciate if the game since his insurance on the eSports side of things, not the actual career mode. So if he actually was, than yes that was very off topic. I myself don't care about mixing car classes so I avoided responding to him, and because it looked like he wanst actually talking about career mode. So yeah I still see it as off topic.

No I said

No, you literally word for word said that. I however edited my reply before your post of you'd like to give it a look.

it's illogical for people to have an expectation and emotional charge when it isn't me

No it's not. To you, yeah, to some no. It's just as logical as the praise for a new direction.

It's like saying you'd have expected Pepsi in their first effort at making Orange Juice to taste or seem similar to their other freaking liquid beverages because they are known for making liquid beverages in general...

Except they already had more than enough experience. That's literally not the same at all.

ow is a career mode far from a minor detail...? If your context and idea is GT 1-6 sure, but that's the illusion you've built not PD. PD have advertised, said and tried to a degree (not the best it could be argued) that this wasn't to be the seventh iteration of said illusion

Regardless of which, they've implied nothing was dropped or missing and with that said it's easy to assume there would be a great presence especially with online only being 15%. It was a misconception and assumption, I agree but not without merit.

you want to get on the righteous horse, fine. I'm not conflating, so much as you seemingly coming in and figuring out that you obviously know what angle I'm talking from

I'm only going off of what you've posted. You've explained yourself, as have I. However you're being the opposite of this;

still am open and understanding enough

With how you came into the thread.

So try not to assume, that it's a one size fits all

I'm not, I'm just coming from the opposite side of your and discussing it.

You seemed poised to have a discussion more about me the user, and less about my point which was topic related. Try not to conflate that.

Incorrect as I've discussed the points off this thread, disagreeing with you about your saying it's illogical. There was very Little said about you.

 

[Joey D]

I'm not sure we know the full extent of the modes yet. But if it ends up the way we think, with a majority of the racing being online, I don't know if I'm sold on the game. I loathe online racing since I either get stuck with people who think driving backward around the track is fun or people that get super bent out of shape if you tap them in close racing. I'd rather race AI with a scalable difficulty slider so I can set up exactly what I want.

I don't see why there can't be a mix of both online and offline features. PCARS and Forza both do it, so I don't see why GT can't do it.

 

[cutmeamango]

Yes and no.

Yes: Most people don't like having to fiddle around to find or get to the game part, this should be clearly provided by the creator. Same goes for settings, and everything else. It should work default, out of the box.
So if you buy a car driving, racing game, you'll want to drive, race.

It seems the Campaign structure provides that, since, at least, Mission Challenge 8 is a 3-lap race.
But will it be sufficient? I don't know at this time.

No: The old structure appears to be mismatch with the new game design. The purpose seems to be moving players to the social, multiplayer component while teaching them driving and racing.
Of course that may be proven wrong once you can crash your way to 1st place in every race provided in Campaign and "Mileage" performance range upgrades are allowed as well and you can boost your way into faster laps.


But, IF these are in:
* Seasonal events, with expert challenges,
* Lobby Shuffle races,
* Clubs, hopefully capable of setting up tournaments.
* Varied, weekly Sport competitions along with daily races,
* Arcade Custom races, hopefully capable of setting up tournaments as well being shareable,
* And Single races.

Missing "Sunday Cup" and "Like the Wind" tourneys in Campaign should not be a problem.

I'd love though if they let us create and customize tournaments using the "livery editor" capabilities.
Being able to substitute certain graphics/logos with custom ones.

Then everyone could have Sunday Cups.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Am I wrong on this but didn't PD say that GTS is not a prologue in between GT6 & GT7 and that it is the way the GT series is going now so there are no plans for a GT7?

If there was a GT7 coming in the foreseeable future I don't think alot of us would feel so bitter about GTS.

I don't recall it being a said to be a prologue, which is why in the post you took that piece from I also say it's a standalone title as well. I also haven't seen anything said about GT7 being not in the future. Then again as I and @ImaRobot have said PD aren't the most easy or best communicators on their plans for the future, so we don't fully know. What I do know is this is a full length title, prologues never have been, this is their first run at esports and thus an experiment, so they may easily revert back if it doesn't work.

If you're bitter, it's because of the unknown, nothing I've seen has said their is no future for GT as we know it. This is just the route Pd want to take as of now because ESports is where gaming is going, despite those who are on board or not. How long it will last has yet to be seen, but since esports has been building since the early 2000s, I don't see it dying any time soon.

 

[Robbks]

"Is Polyphony Digital making a significant mistake by omitting career mode?"

No.

I've been playing Dirt Rally almost every night since I've bought it.
I get about 1/2 an hour to 45mins a day, and I struggle to complete each component of the online races.
i.e Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Owners Club, Wager Event, Delta Event.

Let alone any of the actual career events.

Every now and then I get a chance at the PVP Quick-Match, Rally-X events for some competition against other humans, but that's rare

 

[Rinsky]

I read so much stuff on here it's hard to know what actually true and what speculation. That's why I asked.

 

[Lee x sensai]

You know everyone in this form just speculating from what we hear and see far. No body know what in this game or what out box.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I was taking as him talking about an online appreciate if the game since his insurance on the eSports side of things, not the actual career mode. So if he actually was, than yes that was very off topic. I myself don't care about mixing car classes so I avoided responding to him, and because it looked like he wanst actually talking about career mode. So yeah I still see it as off topic.

The wording not to be rude on the first part of this is confusing me. I think you're saying that the user I quoted wasn't speaking on certain things that I said in the response he was quoted in. That was my fault, that was more quoting with his statement as a catalyst for a response, but mainly it was a response to the general thread. Which is a critique on the lack of a career mode in GTS as some see it.

No, you literally word for word said that. I however edited my reply before your post of you'd like to give it a look.

If I'd like to what? As I've said I am not saying no discussion is to be had, I'm saying there is a lack of one being held, and calling it as it is. If people want to try and explain their emotional knee jerk to certain features of the game not being as they thought, then I'm willing to hear and respond in kind.

No it's not. To you, yeah, to some no. It's just as logical as the praise for a new direction.

So you seem confused, your taking my response as praise? That's interesting since I never said, anything praising the move. A defense or response to those saying unfounded or holding misguided expectations and explaining via info we have from PD so far, as to why it is wrong to have held them isn't praise. In fact it's just a neutral talking ground on the subject material. I could have easily done the same for someone giving unfounded praise on a unreleased game.

Except they already had more than enough experience. That's literally not the same at all.

How is it not, one usually gives detail or insight before saying "nope that's wrong?" Seems counter-intuitive to argue from the perspective that I'm the user claiming people shouldn't have further discussion while trying to discuss, and yet here you are claiming at a few points, I'm wrong but no further reasoning to why, and then carrying on.

Regardless of which, they've implied nothing was dropped or missing and with that said it's easy to assume there would be a great presence especially with online only being 15%. It was a misconception and assumption, I agree but not without merit.

"The drop", is not me saying PD has dropped something. The drop is a figure of speech or idiom in regards to some knowledge gained, information understood or advantage of. So please top using this as me saying something was literally dropped.

With how you came into the thread.

So you take issue yet again with me and not what I wrote. As long as I'm with in AUP I can come into the thread as charged or uncharged as the user I'm responding too. The user clearly is upset about PD's pathing with this current title. I equally am befuddled by said user and other users outrage based on the info we've had and yet them still being upset after the fact.

I'm not, I'm just coming from the opposite side of your and discussing it.

Fine then speak less about my "Attitude" or perceived tones on your part, and more about the context. Such as why I'm wrong in my thoughts on career mode, cars in certain categories, why peoples expectations shouldn't have been where they were so on. How I speak or come in to a thread isn't topic and if it is an issue report it. I'm here to discuss the topic if it gets out of hand like it has, then I'll say so or apologize on my part. I see the need to do so, so if you want to keep talking about the things I've made light of, I'm more than willing.

Incorrect as I've discussed the points off this thread, disagreeing with you about your saying it's illogical. There was very Little said about you.

You just noted that your response in the last second to previous post was due to seemingly the way I came into the thread, then you repeated this in this thread in a part I've bolded so you can't claim otherwise. This is more about my style of posting, my perceived tone of post and nothing, absolutely nothing in regards to the subject material.

I read so much stuff on here it's hard to know what actually true and what speculation. That's why I asked.

It's fine to ask, I'm not detering you from that I just wanted to best explain what I know from what I also have read on the site and others.

 

[Silver Arrows]

You know everyone in this form just speculating from what we hear and see far. No body know what in this game or what out box.

You really do think that Polyphony is going to pull out a full career mode out of their asses with the content that is present?

With that being said, I find it harder to care about this sort of stuff as time goes on. Polyphony is obviously intent on shoving its foot as far down its throat as it can, and with the unending support of Sony, nothing is going to really change. Besides, the sim racing genre has diversified on consoles, to the point now where Forza/GT has little leverage or foothold left in the sim space except for sales. I've talked about this many a times before in this forum.

Some of it comes down to me getting older and simply not really giving a damn about the grindy career modes present within both Forza and GT. Sure, I may have been able to stomach it in my youth, hell, even now playing GT2 I don't mind it, but if I wanted to play something that was the same thing over and over again, letting the time melt away, I'd play something that I'd enjoy and can at least change things up every once in a while. GT games for the longest time have been chase the rabbit simulators that are boring as hell.

I guess that's the reason why I enjoy PCARS's career mode so much: it might be the same thing, but at least it replicates the natural progression on the motorsports ladder. And it also doesn't feel like I'm clowning the AI every single time.

At this point, hitching your wagon up to GT, even amidst the options present on consoles, is asinine. This isn't 2005. This isn't even 2013. You have options.