Is Sophy 2.0 no longer competitive?

[Owen.C93]

To be honest I’m surprised they implemented it in quick race which has a huge amount of variables to train for.

I would have thought they would start with some of the events which generally have a fixed selection of cars and tyres. Just tie it into the new weekly races.

At least that would improve the career mode experience.

 

[Dena RACING]

My 2c:

Is Sophy the answer to GT's absolutely ****** singleplayer AI, and is it fun to race against?

Yes.

Is Sophy implemented in a way right now that allows the user to scale difficulty or enjoy it to its full potential?

No.

A lot of naysayers on this initial limited roll-out. It's bizarre considering the majority of GT fans use this game as a car pokemon simulator, a singleplayer racing simulator, or a credit grinding simulator. You think there's be more enthusiasm for the forst non-braindead AI in 25 years.

Hi, something I understood today. I like to chalenge Standard IA in pro mode for my E-sport training. And monthly I like to do a vintage race Gr1 at SPA with the legendary Porsche 962-C, soft Racing tires, no STC and no other driving assistance, just no nothing and no BOP versus other legendary Gr1 from the same period (a mix between 1965-1975).

Today I decided to challenge SOPHY in PRO level on the same track with the same car. Because all the cars are wearing Medium wear, I did the same to balance the performance of the grip and also to be fair, still no STC (0) and no assist at all as I usually do. Then the race start.... It was SOOO fast !!!! I barely recognize the physic of my car... Very difficult to control. At the end of the long fast part just before the small chicane for arrival, I was at top speed 325km/h (202m/h) and with a mega huge stupid crazy acceleration speed rate than ever... when usually before with regular IA in custom race (without BOP) I have at the same part 309km/h (192m/h)..... Then I noticed in the Sophy quick race the stupid Tomahawk VGT was part of the race, and so I understand all cars have a BOP adapted to the Tomahawk and not as they usually do in custom race neither Nation/Manufacturer cup with medium BOP... What a shame! Because no regular cars in my Sophy's quick race (including my Porsche 962-C) have the aerodynamics adapted for such a top speed and hilarious acceleration rate... I and other Sophy drivers could barely keep control of the cars. No other Sophy alliterations including me could keep a safe driving causing accident and stupid moves... I finished 3rd giving the best of me and sweating like a pig. It looks more a Wipe-out arcade race instead of a Real Driving Simulator. Is that normal the quick race mode adapt all the BOP cars from the fastest car involved ? Since I never did an arcade race before. Sophy told me to do it..and I am so sick of it!
I really hope Sophy will be used in a smarter way. Because Quick race is absolutely not adapted to it.

 

[MSZ]

Tried the 100% stock 992 GT3 RS at Red Bull Ring in professional level, Sophy is very competitive IMO.

 

[watto79]

I'm on Sports Mediums, as implied by "stock 911". At 70% power restriction, my car should not be "too quick" -- definitely not in a race where each of my opponents is supposed to beat Kylian Drumont.

You are still using a car that's at least 4 years newer than anything else in front of you, and considerably newer than most of the others. Try using an F40 or F50 or a Viper GTS and see how it goes.
I'm not saying it should be like this but I am trying to help you find a solution.
I don't think the intention was to put AI in the game that can beat Kylian Drumont. That doesn't sound very much fun.

 

[MonoTonouS]

Arcade mkde should at the very least allow you to do a one make race and pick the number of opponent's.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I had a hunch that we wouldn’t in fact be facing a full grid of Sophy’s, and I think it’s an accurate assessment.

I spent about 2 hours on the Sophy races today, with the majority of the time starting/restarting through different parts of the first lap when I noticed the AI going for a move on another AI opponent, and the flinches looked all too scripted. I was able to duplicate these incidences just about every time.

I think that the AI against one another is more or less scripted with a very loose understanding of what to do when coordinate “X” (AI opponent) is moving against the leading AI OPPONENT (coordinate Y) in a specified direction and velocity.


When it comes to the AI vs us….

I think they have a higher level of understanding on what to do if we’re moving against them at a certain trajectory and velocity. Not exactly scripted, but not very natural either. I’ve found that my best races are in Group machinery with bone stock settings.

The reason it was implemented on3 lap races is easy…

In 3 lap races on equal machinery in her current form, Sophy is tough to beat. One more lap…she’s toast.


Having said that…and keeping in mind PD is already well into developing GT8, I think the roadmap of Sophy implementation into GT7 has already been plotted. And all further implementation and the future nerfing/buffing is already planned out for the most part in future updates.

I think the timing of this version of Sophy with the holiday season and Spec II is to sell consoles. I think if we would have seen only a “slightly nerfed” version of Sophy in this update, the goal of selling consoles might not have come to fruition.




…..having said all that. Unless I’m credit grinding, time-attacking, hot-lapping, or tire testing for FIA races…..I don’t think I can ever go back to normal AI outside of selected 🌶️ events.


Well done PD 🇺🇸

 

[meekrab]

Racing Sophy 2.0 is the perfect preparation for Sport mode... she's slow, drives like she can't see you, and thinks the overtake is on at every corner.

But at least compared to the regular AI she wouldn't be the first one thrown off the track for driving dangerously.

 

[dimassa19]

For what it's worth, -sophy in Greek is σοφία (φιλοσοφία) and the noun σοφία is a feminine one

Feminine noun... the Heart... Yeah, it's a Girl.

And Sophy - as described on the website - is still in development.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

So while Sophy 2.0 is, obviously, a huge improvement over the vanilla AI, it still doesn't address one of the most glaring issues with singleplayer: the fact that the AI doesn't pose a challenge.

The AI totally poses a challenge. It's just hamstrung by PD's tire selection so that plebs like me can think we're the next Ayrton Senna. The tires are your difficulty level selector.

 

[MonoTonouS]

The AI totally poses a challenge. It's just hamstrung by PD's tire selection so that plebs like me can think we're the next Ayrton Senna. The tires are your difficulty level selector.

People make me laugh " Why am I so much faster than a car with sports hards when I'm on racing softs" .

I dunno , maybe because Tires are the single most important mod you can do to a car ?

 

[ShiftingGears]

The AI totally poses a challenge. It's just hamstrung by PD's tire selection so that plebs like me can think we're the next Ayrton Senna. The tires are your difficulty level selector.

It poses more of a challenge. But ultimately, they are still asking you to make up 10 positions in four minutes, which means that they expect you to be faster than them.

I am guessing that if you can get silver on most of the S licenses you can beat all the Sophy races on the same tyres as the AI.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

It poses more of a challenge. But ultimately, they are still asking you to make up 10 positions in four minutes, which means that they expect you to be faster than them.

I am guessing that if you can get silver on most of the S licenses you can beat all the Sophy races on the same tyres as the AI.

Oh, the race structure is totally bizarre. Progressively faster cars from last to first, all on bad tires in a long-distance rolling start. Are we debating if Sophy is a challenge, or whether she's a magical fix-all meant to resolve all of the problems with the game?

When the first Sophy demo came out everyone was wondering how they would scale up Sophy's training in order to be usable for the entire game. I even mentioned then, that it would take too long to train up multiple skill level tiers of Sophy and that it would be easier to handicap Sophy's car and tire selection to make her easier to beat. Well, that's what they did.

So just handicap yourself relative to the lead car and enjoy an AI that constantly throws crazy defensive moves at you to the point that you throw a dive bomb out of frustration.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Oh, the race structure is totally bizarre. Progressively faster cars from last to first, all on bad tires in a long-distance rolling start. Are we debating if Sophy is a challenge, or whether she's a magical fix-all meant to resolve all of the problems with the game?

When the first Sophy demo came out everyone was wondering how they would scale up Sophy's training in order to be usable for the entire game. I even mentioned then, that it would take too long to train up multiple skill level tiers of Sophy and that it would be easier to handicap Sophy's car and tire selection to make her easier to beat. Well, that's what they did.

So just handicap yourself relative to the lead car and enjoy an AI that constantly throws crazy defensive moves at you to the point that you throw a dive bomb out of frustration.

I'm saying it's more of a challenge than the existing AI, it's still not exceptional though, because the workaround is still handicapping yourself when you can beat it while making several mistakes (like I have in the video below). Surely the solution is to let you pick a level of Sophy right up until maxing it out, rather than having to resort to handicapping yourself (the default Gran Turismo solution).

I am not sure how Sophy scales its difficulty, I suspect it might be that the power is limited in the opponents. I will have to look at the replay again, it could just be the difference in Group 3 cars without BoP.

Frankly its an improvement and I like it, I just didn't like them hyping it up as an industry game changer for years and then giving us an AI at a level they could've produced years ago if they invested more in their AI department.

 

[GTboyz]

So this thread is a revelation to me that I suck.

I see you guys leaving them behind with 5 seconds difference while I'm here racing Sophy on Tsukuba with a bone stock GR86 and I'm struggling to catch up with the 2nd and 1st position, but other than that I do feel like they're not as fast as the one from the preview build.

 

[Chevy Heavy]

What everyone needs to understand is that we are nowhere near the finished version of Sophy. GT7 is a testbed for what we will eventually see implemented in GT8. Every iteration of Sophie we get until then will be evaluated and tweaked. Player feedback will certainly play a factor in determining what we see in the future. However, as I said it will probably be GT8 before we see the best version. In the meantime, it's up to each player to determine what kind of challenge you want from it. Just like the current single player races.

I think we should happy that PD are addressing the concerns people had with single player. While at the same time improving the games economy. $300k and a 5-star for doing 5 races isn't too bad. And increased bonuses and payouts in Sophy races. I myself am not hurting for money (Thx Tomahawk glitch), but I still have only 1/3 completed on the World Circuits. Now I have a reason to finish that part of the game. I haven't tried Sophy yet but look forward to messing around with that also.

Sorry for the long post. All I'm saying is keep expectations to a reasonable level. PD are in it for the long haul. And at least you aren't dealing with the mess that is Forza.

 

[Darrenersmit]

Does the payout get more than 400 % if you do all the licences? Just wondering before I bother with them. Put me in 2 minds now this update and wrc out on the same week. Like the red pill or blue pill decision hah

 

[GTboyz]

Does the payout get more than 400 % if you do all the licences? Just wondering before I bother with them. Put me in 2 minds now this update and wrc out on the same week. Like the red pill or blue pill decision hah

400% is max

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

I'm saying it's more of a challenge than the existing AI, it's still not exceptional though, because the workaround is still handicapping yourself when you can beat it while making several mistakes (like I have in the video below)

I mean this is a valid critique of the implementation of a new technology, I'd argue rather than the technology itself.

We are still in the early days of this. I was surprised by the amount of tracks and full 20-car fields frankly, this is PD we are talking about. Their timelines are close to geologic time periods.

 

[Meythia]

I think that the AI against one another is more or less scripted with a very loose understanding of what to do when coordinate “X” (AI opponent) is moving against the leading AI OPPONENT (coordinate Y) in a specified direction and velocity.

As long as AI is told to do the best it can, facing the same situation should produce the same actions (and likely results).
Start -> see "I am in position 1" -> see "car directly behind me" -> see "corner straight ahead" -> decide best line

This should ALWAYS be the same unless there is a randomizer implemented (which is propably depending on the cars performance, because of gaps getting smaller or larger).

 

[morfei1]

The stock tires for the new 992 are SM so if you choose to race on slicks you have big advantage coz as far as I'm aware the A.I cars can't switch to same tires as you right now.

Its made that way for the guys/kids that always want to win no matter how. Also for a fun part of the racing where you just want to be super overpowered. It's a game at the end and it should be interesting for big amount of users all around the world of different ages and so on and so forth.

If you want realisum and close batteles keep it stock✌️.

In February the Sophy 1.0 we were not able to tune the car or change tires and that's why the races were so challenging.

I really like and I was waiting for Sophy be part of GT. Looking forward for even further integration of it in the game.

Well done PD you keep my interest 👌

 

[Meythia]

Its made that way for the guys/kids that always want to win no matter how.

That is assuming it was intentional.
Standard AI will use the car as you have tuned it except for using the tyres it was acquired on.
To me this looks like to be bugged instead.

 

[Bojador]

I guess its simple, must try it when i get home, but the main goal of AI its to behave in a more natural way when racing the player, like in RL the middle field should be more chaotic and more mistakes from pilots while the cars in front should be a lot more competitive.

If people are not following the race rules, like same PP and same tyres compared to AI so the fault its on people not in AI implementations, thats why RL races have rules so everyone stick to them so cars can in a way be more balanced.

If people are racing AI with tunned cars, Racing tyres or cars that arent suit for those rules the blame its on people that dont understand simple rules...

If AI its trained to race the cars according those rules people must race using the same specs, if using the same specs compared to AI and the races are challeging and AI controled cars are more aware of ou presence and can defend/attack its a win.

I only raced race cars, where bop is active, and always matched the AI tyres. I haven’t played the game for months and I was using the controller, I haven’t used it since launch. I was still able to win, even going off track and making many mistakes. Some track combinations are a bit more competitive, but it’s not because the AI is fast, it’s because you have 3 laps to close the gap while going through traffic. And yes their behaviour is miles better than the regular AI.

The best track to see why the AI isn’t fast is Spa. They just can’t keep up in the straights, although it seems they speed up when you catch them.

I believe this will be the future, I just can’t shake the feel of disappointment seeing PD chose to give us 3 laps chase the rabbit races and nerfing the AI top speed (even with bop) to make so that people can win races that give you nothing more than just a couple thousand credits.

The previous Sophy races were a real challenge, but this was a step backwards.

 

[Fezzik]

I tried a few races last night with the new cars on professional difficulty. Keep my cars stock anyway. Only time I even got into the top 3 was with the Nismo at Suzuka. Seems like a good challenge for someone like me (DR B/C, silver TT).

 

[morfei1]

That is assuming it was intentional.
Standard AI will use the car as you have tuned it except for using the tyres it was acquired on.
To me this looks like to be bugged instead.

The standard A.I is so bad that I even don't want to talk about it. It even does not have an idea you are racing with it. That's how bad it is.

For Sophy considering it's the first official release, only in "Arcade mode" and only on few of the tracks, I'm sure we will see a lot of fine tunning about it in the near future.

 

[SluggerDandy]

Well, seems like someone has to do a thread to explain how to have challenging races vs Sophy.
I think we all had different experiences with Sophy, which isn't surprising giving the fact that some of us had raced it with modified cars and wheels.
With stock, I can guarantee Sophy is challenging.
And while it isn't as fast as its first integration to the game, it can clearly guess what you'll do next.
On Tsukuba, she defended in the interior when I was close, and took a good line when I was far away.
For the difficulty, giving that I've already see people complaining about the difficulty of the Master Licenses (!), I think that PD nerfed it because of obvious reasons.
The target audience of GT7 are people who cannot stand to lose offline.
While in other sims (AC and ACC in particular) your goals on single player isn't the win, it's to be close to the top with challenging rivals.
Hence the chase the rabbit thing, while first occurences of GT had Qualifications.
We can also talk about the "Chili AI" which is seriously competitive and challenging, even on grid starts.
Let's just hope that PD could give us, in the future, options to tweak the difficulty as we wish.

 

[morfei1]

I'm quite sure if PD integrates quali in single player, just 1% or probably less of the GT7 community will use it.


People want to race, they want to win. Why spend time in quali if you can win with your super OP tunned car from the back? It's so challenging and makes us feels like heroes .

 

[Nuschel01]

the fact that the AI doesn't pose a challenge

But it does?
It challenges you to not rearend it when it brakes in the dumbest spots you can imagine

 

[philipPF]

Seems there's a bit of disapointment for some people on this version on Sophy races. I've seen some videos to show that it's not so great, but what about the other side ? Is there some videos where we can see the gain/improvements/nice moves of this Sophy version vs the classic AI ? (I'm still on base PS4 so I can't check by myself, this kind of features could make me go for PS5 if it's a game changer)

 

[tothesz]

I think the problem with Sophy now is the grid size. Let 19 Sophys go all out, you would have no chance gaining positions from the back. So they nerfed it. I would easly chop the grid size in half and let there be some close rivality between the player and Sophy without nerfing anything. Then you can make it 20 again for multiclass, at least it's good to know the PS5 can handle it.

 

[Boxster]

Seems there's a bit of disapointment for some people on this version on Sophy races. I've seen some videos to show that it's not so great, but what about the other side ? Is there some videos where we can see the gain/improvements/nice moves of this Sophy version vs the classic AI ? (I'm still on base PS4 so I can't check by myself, this kind of features could make me go for PS5 if it's a game changer)

I think the key problems with the old AI were that they had no awareness of cars around them and would brake mid corner. If Sophy doesn't do that, that's a major improvement.
For the remainder PD will calibrate Sophy so that it's competitive for average players. Hopefully in the future you can choose how quick Sophy will drive. It's just a first implementation now.