Is Sophy 2.0 no longer competitive?

[Dena RACING]

GT Sophy in the game is in a stable configuration. It does no further learning.

I've literally just stated that in this thread, five posts before your own.

ok ok. I trust you. I really thought I understood sooner this year Sophy was trained by 1000 PS5 but will adapt itself to the local player's skill.

 

[TumeK5]

ok ok. I trust you. I really thought I understood sooner this year Sophy was trained by 1000 PS5 but will adapt itself to the local player's skill.

You're not entirely wrong, it's just that Sophy is constantly evolving in general, but the Sophy in the game is a static version, just like the regular AI which definitely does not learn.

 

[rlx]

ok ok. I trust you. I really thought I understood sooner this year Sophy was trained by 1000 PS5 but will adapt itself to the local player's skill.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/how-the-gt-sophy-ai-actually-works.416980/

 

[sswishbone]

It seems strange to have this super AI limited to standard/stock cars. Couldn't they have made this a bespoke championship as a trial instead? A nine-race championship, fixed vehicle criteria, decent payout... would have been pretty interesting

 

[Dena RACING]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/how-the-gt-sophy-ai-actually-works.416980/

ok. So I am a bit disappointed since on HARD Sophy, I was 1st already on second lap and finished the race (3x laps) 1st at 20 sec from the #2nd Sophy. But I was on Soft while it was on HARD components...?? why so since on quick race there are no tire wear. I'll try this evening with same Hard component to evaluate it. For sure it looks more human but still very easy to challenge.

 

[TumeK5]

ok. So I am a bit disappointed since on HARD Sophy, I was 1st already on second lap...But I was on Soft while it was on HARD components...?? I'll try this evening with same Hard component to evaluate it. For sure it looks more human but still very easy to challenge.

You need to use a car that's bone stock, including tires. The game does not change the AI cars depending on tunes.

 

[Dena RACING]

My first race against Sophy 2.0 was at Spa, in a maxed-out 911 (992), at highest difficulty. I was expecting a challenge -- being a very average, C-rated driver -- but in fact finished 20 seconds ahead after 3 laps. I couldn't even say how Sophy is driving because I only saw the other cars for the first half of the first lap.

This can't be the intended behaviour of the AI, right? In the February Sophy 1.0 demo, the highest-difficulty Sophy was very hard to beat (and fun to race against).

Definitely Sophy 1.0 was more a challenger rather than Sophy 2.0

 

[GTRedman]

No, and no that's not how it works.

The Sophy AI is trained on literally thousands of PS5s. We then get the "finished" versions of it (selected by Sony AI/PD for speed and racecraft) for the game.

Where? I've been covering it from the beginning and have no recollection of this claim being made.

It's always learning while it's being trained. The ones in the game are stable.

Not sure if this is what @Roggers was referring to but in the Feb 22 media event Kaz's presentation he talks about "how will GT Sophy appear in GT7" where he responds (via translator):



1. "GT Sophy will be there to coach the players of driving"
2. "the players can teach GT Sophy about sportsmanship and GT Sophy can appear as a friend in the races"

With a list of goals for GT Sophy on the slide:

• can drive fast
• appropriately handle various environments
• appears to act naturally to people
• behavior that exhibits meaning and intent
• to be creative
• to be ethical

So point 2 above implied GT Sophy could learn sportsmanship from players, but this didn't sound like a commitment just talking about what might be possible.

 

[Mafio]

OP was Sopy in a maxed out 911 or were you in a maxed out 911? If it was you, what was Sophy driving and it it was Sophy what were you driving?

 

[Met Entso]

Sophy is slowing down in Eau arouge

One other thing that I've been observing at Spa is that Sophy 2.0 has an odd way of approaching Eau Rouge, letting off the throttle or even getting on the brakes, even if not under pressure. I would have expected it to have learned the proper H.J. Stuck flat-out racing line, but instead it appears pretty timid. Is anyone else seeing that behaviour?

Yes, and this is what old ai is doing too.

 

[NJ72]

"AI isn't challenging"

Then reduce the power or add ballast to your car... If you have a massive power advantage then of course you're going to obliterate the competition... Likewise, the speed of Sophy is the same for everyone, so better drivers will be able to beat it easily. The whole point is that Sophy DOESN'T rubber band like the old AI.

For an engaging race, play with ballast and power restriction.

 

[rlx]

OP was Sopy in a maxed out 911 or were you in a maxed out 911? If it was you, what was Sophy driving and it it was Sophy what were you driving?

I was in a maxed out 992 on RHs. Sophy was in top-tier road cars on SH/SMs. So given that Sophy is driving stock models, you should pick a stock car as well.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

So we give you this amazing AI that has been trained via machine learning in tenths of thousands of hours!
It's amazing but it can't do this and it can't to that. It can't learn and it can't adapt to the players skills but hey it's really fast.....as long as you adapt to Sophy and use an appropriate car ofc.

Am I the only one who thinks this is really funny?
😄

 

[Nathaniel_Wu]

"AI isn't challenging"

Then reduce the power or add ballast to your car... If you have a massive power advantage then of course you're going to obliterate the competition... Likewise, the speed of Sophy is the same for everyone, so better drivers will be able to beat it easily. The whole point is that Sophy DOESN'T rubber band like the old AI.

For an engaging race, play with ballast and power restriction.

Not entirely power or tire advantage, the new Sophy just doesn’t drive as close to limit as it used to. I tried Gr.3 on Spa and Gr.2 on Suzuka, Sophy would lift through Eau Rouge and 130R, that’s just not driving as fast as it should, human driver will always go flat in those cars.

 

[Theufcveteran]

So we give you this amazing AI that has been trained via machine learning in tenths of thousands of hours!
It's amazing but it can't do this and it can't to that. It can't learn and it can't adapt to the players skills but hey it's really fast.....as long as you adapt to Sophy and use an appropriate car ofc.

Am I the only one who thinks this is really funny?
😄

The amount of CPU resources Sophy would surely take to learn on the go would compromise other areas of the game. What they can probably do is take parts of player telemetry and use that as training data for Sophy to further increase its realism.

 

[Firestone]

I ran with standard BOP from sport mode in a GR3 car and it was pretty hard to get out of mid pack at some of my weaker tracks.

Even at Road Atlanta where I can keep pace with A+ drivers in sport mode, the top 3 Sophy were very hard to catch.

 

[specops]

So we give you this amazing AI that has been trained via machine learning in tenths of thousands of hours!
It's amazing but it can't do this and it can't to that. It can't learn and it can't adapt to the players skills but hey it's really fast.....as long as you adapt to Sophy and use an appropriate car ofc.

Am I the only one who thinks this is really funny?
😄

As intelligent as Sophy might be in race, unfortunately it is not trained to decipher your out-of-race decisions. To me, this seems like complaining about the lack of rubber banding. If you're way faster, you're way faster. If you're way slower, you're way slower. If you want a close race, you have to set up a close race. Not sure what's so funny about that.

 

[NJ72]

So we give you this amazing AI that has been trained via machine learning in tenths of thousands of hours!
It's amazing but it can't do this and it can't to that. It can't learn and it can't adapt to the players skills but hey it's really fast.....as long as you adapt to Sophy and use an appropriate car ofc.

Am I the only one who thinks this is really funny?
😄

You are either just enjoying some irony based on the consistently used (and incorrectly applied) term "AI", or you don't understand how it works.

Sophy is akin to a 'large lanugage model' in that it requires multiple thousands of interactions to learn. It is NOT doing this on your PS5, it has done it on a bank of PS5s on PD/ Sony's network. The resultant is a static "AI" (again, wrong term, but it's what everyone calls it) racer group which has been pushed out to our consoles.

The ones on our consoles do not learn, they do not develop and they - just like any other "AI" in any other racing game - can very much be out-powered. If you try and race a stock 911 with your fully tuned one then it's never going to stand a chance without rubber banding implemented. Rubber banding has been complained about for eons, and now people are complaining it isn't within this new "AI" model... FFS

It's not about 'adapting to Sophy' as Sophy (in this implementation) is about race craft rather than outright pace - like any other "AI" in any other racing game that doesn't utilise rubber banding to force the racing to be close.

 

[pornomazinger]

My first race against Sophy 2.0 was at Spa, in a maxed-out 911 (992), at highest difficulty. I was expecting a challenge -- being a very average, C-rated driver -- but in fact finished 20 seconds ahead after 3 laps. I couldn't even say how Sophy is driving because I only saw the other cars for the first half of the first lap.

This can't be the intended behaviour of the AI, right? In the February Sophy 1.0 demo, the highest-difficulty Sophy was very hard to beat (and fun to race against).

no drift no sophy
must be Sophie

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Folks, I know very well how it works.

What's funny is that this is pure marketing. Give it a female name, throw in some buzzwords like AI and Machine Learning (I wonder there's no Blockchain involved) and everybody is like "Oh, that's amazing".
Don't wanna spoil anyone's fun, if you like it that's great! I just think it's funny how things like this work those days.

 

[Famine]

Give it a female name

It's not a female name. Everyone seems to think it is, and it's often referred to as female, but it's not.

It's the Greek suffix meaning "knowledge". As in "philosophy" ("love of knowledge").

 

[Mafio]

I was in a maxed out 992 on RHs. Sophy was in top-tier road cars on SH/SMs. So given that Sophy is driving stock models, you should pick a stock car as well.

Or, if you wanna get a little freaky-deeky, use an underpowered car.

 

[Met Entso]

Sophy, the AI we have to adapt to.

 

[nikiforenko66]

It's not a female name. Everyone seems to think it is, and it's often referred to as female, but it's not.

It's the Greek suffix meaning "knowledge". As in "philosophy" ("love of knowledge").

For what it's worth, -sophy in Greek is σοφία (φιλοσοφία) and the noun σοφία is a feminine one

 

[danimac]

Perhaps it’s a combination of a Maxed out car. Plus the AI is on hard. Not very hard or more. I wish we could keep the aggression and racing behaviour of the new AI but have a percentage slider for the difficulty not what the devs think is a good balance. Allow players to get the right balance of difficulty ourselves.

 

[SluggerDandy]

I've played against Sophy today and I've found it pretty competitive.
I've choose the - stock - LFA on Tsukuba, and on intermediate level I've finished one second ahead, on hard I've finished third.

 

[Mafio]

I like to think of Sophy as a female. 😁

 

[MGR]

Theres still some kind of rubber banding style nonsense going on. The AI seems to get progressively slower as the race goes on.

I had high hopes after the first iteration. But it appears Sophy has had a lobotomy and now gets fatigued very quickly.

 

[Zorz]

It's not a female name. Everyone seems to think it is, and it's often referred to as female, but it's not.

It's the Greek suffix meaning "knowledge". As in "philosophy" ("love of knowledge").

Now THAT makes sense. Ever since they first announced it, I've been thinking it was a mashup of Sony Physics. 😅

 

[Famine]

Sony Physics