Is this the norm?

[poumpoum]

The pace gap just accross A rank is already around a second or so. That's already hard enough on itself, so adding an A+ (the best players that regularly top the leaderboards, furthermore) to the equation will mever really bode well for low A people

Yesy I can see that but where is the problem ?

If ALL his races are like this one he will lose points and go back to B rank where he will be more competitive ?

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Yesy I can see that but where is the problem ?

If ALL his races are like this one he will lose points and go back to B rank where he will be more competitive ?

If his races are going to keep going to be like that it will end in one of two things:
1. He will improve by having a really competitive field and climb up on DR A
2. He will plateau

 

[TheGeologist]

Interesting stats ! Where did get those ? Do you have stats only for the SR division (no latter the DR).



You're A/S, so I don't see the problem ??

The pace gap just accross A rank is already around a second or so. That's already hard enough on itself, so adding an A+ (the best players that regularly top the leaderboards, furthermore) to the equation will mever really bode well for low A people

Alpha was saying as an A+ driver he sees a lot of DrCs and even some Ds in a majority of his races. As a low DrA, I just see A and up usually.

 

[sundaydriving]

Alpha was saying as an A+ driver he sees a lot of DrCs and even some Ds in a majority of his races. As a low DrA, I just see A and up usually.

Lucky you. I can second what Alpha sees.... Today out of 3 Daily C races, the most A+ DR was 3, and I was one of them.

 

[TheGeologist]

Lucky you. I can second what Alpha sees.... Today out of 3 Daily C races, the most A+ DR was 3, and I was one of them.

No, its not lucky me bc I get my ass kicked

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Interesting stats ! Where did get those ? Do you have stats only for the SR division (no latter the DR).

https://www.jasonguernsey.net/gts/drivers-by/driver-rating
(I calculated the DR distribution for SR.S from that)

This is what I'm talking about man. All As and A+s. This is usually all I see, and if I'm not at Lagos, I'm outclassed by a lot...
View attachment 738461

I very much prefer those races over starting halfway in a A/S to D/S room. Starting at the back is much safer on most tracks and even if you do bad or get disconnected the loss is far less than getting punted off and finishing behind D/S drivers. Finishing halfway in one of those room usually means gaining points, much better than finishing second and still losing DR.

Of course it suits my style of hardly putting any effort into qualifying. If I'm starting in the back anyway, it's better when it's behind drivers of the same DR level, same penalty rules, same braking points.

 

[TheGeologist]

I very much prefer those races over starting halfway in a A/S to D/S room. Starting at the back is much safer on most tracks and even if you do bad or get disconnected the loss is far less than getting punted off and finishing behind D/S drivers. Finishing halfway in one of those room usually means gaining points, much better than finishing second and still losing DR.

Of course it suits my style of hardly putting any effort into qualifying. If I'm starting in the back anyway, it's better when it's behind drivers of the same DR level, same penalty rules, same braking points.

This is the same race where the car came unghosted in front of the field, so it wasn't very safe for me lol

And it's not very fun when the guy qualified one position ahead is also a full second ahead. Grid was way too spread on time.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

This is the same race where the car came unghosted in front of the field, so it wasn't very safe for me lol

And it's not very fun when the guy qualified one position ahead is also a full second ahead. Grid was way too spread on time.

Hmm yeah, there are exceptions, Yamigawa doesn't have the T1 danger, it's one of the few where starting up front is safe. Yesterday I was qualified 7 sec slower than the guy on pole on Bathurst in my first race. That's indeed a bit demoralizing Yet still better than getting completely boxed in in my second race with the standing start chaos.

 

[TheGeologist]

Hmm yeah, there are exceptions, Yamigawa doesn't have the T1 danger, it's one of the few where starting up front is safe. Yesterday I was qualified 7 sec slower than the guy on pole on Bathurst in my first race. That's indeed a bit demoralizing Yet still better than getting completely boxed in in my second race with the standing start chaos.

I was several seconds slower than the pole too. That doesn't bug me too much, but when I'm starting last and the dude one spot ahead is already a second better, maybe I could be placed in a room I am more likely to be competitive in... because I'm just a waste of space at that point.

 

[WheelmanSteve]

My $.02: I'm SR S, hanging on to DR B by my pinkies, and having a mostly great time. There are some jackhammers out there who will always use the bash-to-pass technique; think of them as "live AI"- they just don't know any better. There are a plenty of racers out there who will run clean. Personally, holding my starting position or gaining a P or two and running clean is a "win". I'm an adult gamer with a job and a family and other hobbies, and typically race 2-3 days a week. Could I be faster if I put more time into it? Yes. Do I want to give up mountain biking, swimming, building models and hanging with my family to be faster in GTS? Naaaah. Do what's important to you, and have fun doing it.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Do I want to give up mountain biking, swimming, building models and hanging with my family to be faster in GTS? Naaaah. Do what's important to you, and have fun doing it.

I have fun doing GTS- might be the most enjoyable thing I'm doing. I have a different lifestyle from you, but honestly, I don't mind being a slight shut-in to play GTS
Life's hard sometimes

 

[GT_Alex74]

The matchmaking works by matching SR first, then DR. For SR S, the game has two levels : above 90 and under 90. This is an issue because of the following :

- Not that many players are driving daily races at the same time overall. Plus they're divided between 3 daily races, and regions (EU being more populated than the other ones).
- It seems like SR S drivers are not that many, they're mostly guys driving sports mode regularly.
- It is very easy to reach max SR or recover from a SR drop for fast guys, because once they get out of the top SR range, they'll just be matched with people 5 to 8 seconds slower per lap until they get back to 90 SR.

I'm in EU, close to 60k DR currently, but did a secondary Canadian account to see what's going on American servers. It literally took me only 6 daily races to reach top split. My first 5 races (you don't gain any DR for them), I was lapping half the field on 5 laps races on Willow Streets. I was already max SR I think, so starting race 6, I'm DR D and matched with DR B guys already. The amount of DR points I gained in this race was just insane, I was DR C already and well into it. Race 7, I'm matched with a friend on his US smurf (which is A+) and another A+ guy (Turismo Psycho). This wasn't a problem for me, but really, I think I could have done the same thing up to that point with 3 seconds slower lap times. Of course, that's a bit of an extreme example, American servers at a more EU friendly hour in daily race A, but if you're racing dailies somewhat regularly and have decent pace, you'll get into top split pretty quickly, even in EU. Only exception I think is EU FIAs right now, pre season top splits were between 1/3 A+ and full A+ lobbies.

So, what to do ? Match with DR first ? SR becomes completely useless. Match with qualifying times ? Doesn't reflect race pace, I see a lot of people being much slower in races than in qualy. Don't match guys with too much DR difference ? A+ guys, enjoy not being able to drive daily races 90% of the time, A guys, enjoy 5 cars grids.

The game needs two things to have a more balanced matchmaking : a completely revamped SR / penalty system and more players.

 

[vvise]

The matchmaking works by matching SR first, then DR. For SR S, the game has two levels : above 90 and under 90.

Wanted to say this.

Occasionally when my SR drops under 90, I will get placed in almost full A/S lobbies (seems like a pretty big pool of players).
When I'm sitting at the regular 99 SR, races will range from A+/S to sometimes even C/S or D/S drivers during less popular times.

 

[vxr58]

I’m an A DR and always matched with D and C. I had quite a heated exchange with a DR D the other evening who was beaten, and who suggested that the decent thing for As to do in such a situation is to quit the race.

It’s so hard to stay at 99SR and this is the consequence of dropping even slightly.

 

[Nick Cannella]

I never said everyone gets a trophy nor did I imply it. I also never said I expect to win every time I enter a race either.

Talk about improving, maybe try reading more carefully because it seems like you’re(not your) responding to a different post altogether.

No sir, I did read your post correctly...You clearly stated that "Like if you’re a B driver and you finish 4th but you’re the top B driver, that should count as a win."

 

[KONTRAone]

Enjoy the lower ranks for now as for A and A+ it's no fun either to be matched with DR.B to DR.D. The way the DR system works is that it's very hard to gain points when matched with much lower ranked players, yet you can easily lose 2K DR if someone takes you out or you simply get disconnected during the race.

I second this sentiment my friend. A/A+ lobbies are few and very far apart, and even then the gains are minimal. Usually it's a room of b/c drivers with a rare A or two, where it's common to get 100 Dr points or less for a perfect race, but if you drop back somehow (or God forbid you DNF) the damage is CATASTROPHIC..
I know an A+ shouldn't be easy to come by but it shouldn't be this hard to maintain. just 3 bad races in a row and you get reset back to Dr C and the climb back up is a long and treacherous one... Learned that one from experience

 

[Lord of Tranz]

Buy a steering wheel and a setup to enhance that, and a lag free TV, then you'll be far more competitive, lol.

Just look how big that's becoming. Kick the Mrs. and kids out and have that setup in your living room. You'll be in with a far better chance.

Naturally, you'll need to quit the day job too. Too many guys put in unbelievable hours, seen my neighbour spend 24/7 in any combat type game that's hot see's him just so good. Casual gaming isn't welcome anymore.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Buy a steering wheel and a setup to enhance that, and a lag free TV, then you'll be far more competitive, lol.

Just look how big that's becoming. Kick the Mrs. and kids out and have that setup in your living room. You'll be in with a far better chance.

Naturally, you'll need to quit the day job too. Too many guys put in unbelievable hours, seen my neighbour spend 24/7 in any combat type game that's hot see's him just so good. Casual gaming isn't welcome anymore.

wha-?

I have a steering wheel, sure, a cheap G29. My TV's a mid-2000 LCD that's barely 20 inches (if it even reaches that). I think I'm quite a sociable guy, being friends with just about everyone in my school batch, and really close friends I share my time with at least once every two weeks now that it's summer.

Spoiler

I don't mind being a slight shut-in to play GTS

Sometimes I wish I do have additional time for GTS however.

My grades aren't that good, but that's just who I am seeing that my grades were this way ever since my first year at high school. I still try though

I have 57k DR on my highest account, and reached 50k in 15 and 10 days on my EU and US account respectively. I don't know what you're talking about

 

[Lord of Tranz]

@ Alpha Cipher....

Yeah, it's broad but more an 'and or' thing.

Some have social lives, so lose because they're casual. Other casuals buy wheels and aids too, to compensate for lack of hours.

Others aren't social, but put in the hours. Some do both and hard-core it and buy anything that'll give them a 10th.

Either way. It's not for casuals that can't play too much or pay. Becomes an elitists sim. Not a videogame. Control pad users are at an instant disadvantage.

Going that way, never will it go commercial and make big numbers again. Look how racing games are dwindling. Like teens and cars, or F1 etc.

Too expensive, too snobbish too IMO.

Like golf, lol.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

@ Alpha Cipher....

Yeah, it's broad but more an 'and or' thing.

Some have social lives, so lose because they're casual. Other casuals buy wheels and aids too, to compensate for lack of hours.

Others aren't social, but put in the hours. Some do both and hard-core it and buy anything that'll give them a 10th.

Either way. It's not for casuals that can't play too much or pay. Becomes an elitists sim. Not a videogame. Control pad users are at an instant disadvantage.

Going that way, never will it go commercial and make big numbers again. Look how racing games are dwindling. Like teens and cars, or F1 etc.

Too expensive, too snobbish too IMO.

Like golf, lol.

oh boy...
mthomas_95 (sorry I keep mentioning his name over and over on similar topics, but he's the perfect example for every single situation I can find that's like this) is a controller user that also has a life, that was also invited to Gran Turismo's first ever world tour
I'd even go far to say that while wheels are more immersive, controllers can be just as competitive. But seeing that I'm using a G29, I'm sure you'll pass that statement off as an excuse because I'm a wheel user

 

[Lord of Tranz]

oh boy...
mthomas_95 (sorry I keep mentioning his name over and over on similar topics, but he's the perfect example for every single situation I can find that's like this) is a controller user that also has a life, that was also invited to Gran Turismo's first ever world tour
I'd even go far to say that while wheels are more immersive, controllers can be just as competitive. But seeing that I'm using a G29, I'm sure you'll pass that statement off as an excuse because I'm a wheel user

I appreciate that 1 got in, lol.

But genuinely, if 1 can out of however many did. Says it all in terms of percentages and averages up there then. 1 in how many? Genuinely curious though.

I get your point though, time an practice wins out. With you there.

If only it felt like it. I'm being left more and more behind yet put in more and more hours. I know I'm not the best and never expected a breeze, won't want that either. But playing racing games all my life, I've never felt so far behind as I do now.

That or I'm too old now for gaming. But at 36, I don't believe that just yet, lol.

(My expressing myself isn't the best, apologies if I come across as passive/aggressive - been mentioned elsewhere I can be so, and I try to be aware but I'm so simple minded and am not one to hold back, lol. I see it as a straight/direct approach but have learned the internet doesn't always like that. I'm here to learn/discuss though).

I feel a game like GTA is more appealing for it's racing, flawed as it is. After finding a good crew and groups of friends, we remove all the trolling and race. That's it. The game gives us the platform, and the power to progress while we're competing and/or having fun. No one person has any advantage other than what they learn and can do naturally.

This game (and many with microtransactions and loot boxes etc popping up more and more) is like F1, money gets you far further along far quicker, and the gap between good and average grows. Taking the game away from the majority to suit it's niche, oftem more paying audience.

 

[KONTRAone]

@ Alpha Cipher....

Yeah, it's broad but more an 'and or' thing.

Some have social lives, so lose because they're casual. Other casuals buy wheels and aids too, to compensate for lack of hours.

Others aren't social, but put in the hours. Some do both and hard-core it and buy anything that'll give them a 10th.

Either way. It's not for casuals that can't play too much or pay. Becomes an elitists sim. Not a videogame. Control pad users are at an instant disadvantage.

Going that way, never will it go commercial and make big numbers again. Look how racing games are dwindling. Like teens and cars, or F1 etc.

Too expensive, too snobbish too IMO.

Like golf, lol.

I must respectfully disagree with you sir. While more time and money is always an advantage (in Sim racing and everything else,) it's not a requirement for competing and enjoying yourself, top class or not. Like @Alpha_Cipher said, I know a lot of A+ drivers like myself only get a couple of hours in every few days and still manage to perform... And there's some top drivers using t150's and even DS4's. Hell, I even made a couple of superstar races in the earlier days when I was on still on the sticks...
And at the lower ranks too there are people slowly growing and climbing their way up with whatever time and tools are available.
Besides, A good Sim should always challenge you and have some kind of learning curve, and it should take some amount of precision and control to master, hence the benefit of a wheel. If anyone could just jump on sporadically and casually race their way past everyone then that would be no fun now, would it?

 

[Lord of Tranz]

^ Talk learning curves all you wish, I fully agree there.

But learn what you want. If the car behind, next to, or in front is playing silly buggers, can't do much but accept the punishments. The game plays to that too much, and people know what they do.

Penalties for others punting/diving, no amount of practice or skill overrides the pot luck of that, lol.

What's a t150? (Yep, all Irish and that's the problem with it - Can't just buy the game and console no more, they want more and too many will).

Competitive and/or challenging, well that's standard expectations of any game. Should be there regardless.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I appreciate that 1 got in, lol.

But genuinely, if 1 can out of however many did. Says it all in terms of percentages and averages up there then. 1 in how many? Genuinely curious though.

I get your point though, time an practice wins out. With you there.

If only it felt like it. I'm being left more and more behind yet put in more and more hours. I know I'm not the best and never expected a breeze, won't want that either. But playing racing games all my life, I've never felt so far behind as I do now.

That or I'm too old now for gaming. But at 36, I don't believe that just yet, lol.

(My expressing myself isn't the best, apologies if I come across as passive/aggressive - been mentioned elsewhere I can be so, and I try to be aware but I'm so simple minded and am not one to hold back, lol. I see it as a straight/direct approach but have learned the internet doesn't always like that. I'm here to learn/discuss though).

I feel a game like GTA is more appealing for it's racing, flawed as it is. After finding a good crew and groups of friends, we remove all the trolling and race. That's it. The game gives us the platform, and the power to progress while we're competing and/or having fun. No one person has any advantage other than what they learn and can do naturally.

This game (and many with microtransactions and loot boxes etc popping up more and more) is like F1, money gets you far further along far quicker, and the gap between good and average grows. Taking the game away from the majority to suit it's niche, oftem more paying audience.

^ Talk learning curves all you wish, I fully agree there.

But learn what you want. If the car behind, next to, or in front is playing silly buggers, can't do much but accept the punishments. The game plays to that too much, and people know what they do.

Penalties for others punting/diving, no amount of practice or skill overrides the pot luck of that, lol.

What's a t150? (Yep, all Irish and that's the problem with it - Can't just buy the game and console no more, they want more and too many will).

Competitive and/or challenging, well that's standard expectations of any game. Should be there regardless.

If you were talking about the penalties, I would fully agree with you 100%. The penalties are really bad as it stands right now.

But before you responded to @KONTRAone, what you were talking about is not about the penalties, but rather how GTS is an "elitist sim" where either money or time are the ones that would take you to the top, to which I respond: what game, hobby, or really, anything that you do to get to the top doesn't require that? Money is involved in more sports than you think. And honestly, relative to the other sports, GTS doesn't even need that much time to get to the top. The vast majority of players who play Sport mode are casuals who don't really care about their rankings and/or qualifying times.

Time and money is required to be at the top in GTS. After all, you need money for the PS4, the game, PS+, and the TV. You need time since you cannot get to the top without playing. However, you don't need all of your time, or all of your money, to be decently good at the game- at least, relative to the other sports or sim racing games that are out there.

uMayBeSeated is another prime example I can think of that is a similar case to mthomas, and KONTRAone also said that he is a similar case as well. Although I do admit that these people are quite few amongst the playerbase, these people are not an isolated case.

I think the reason you like GTA's racing scene is because there's no pressure to get to the top in the first place. It's all just fun and games. It's a more casual environment; an environment which is the anti-thesis of Sport mode. I guess, if you want to have similar enjoyment in GTS, online lobby is a good option. You'll also find rooms with boost on, to get that "I have a shot of winning" feel every single race. People around here will diss you probably for joining boosted lobbies, but if that's what's fun for you, go for it

 

[Lord of Tranz]

Yeah, you combine all that, it makes a very restrictive game. I prefer we have control of our games. Lobbies are all good for that and 6 was a great game that offered so many things to so many types of racer, this one went too direct.

I prefer GTA purely as we have freedom. There's strong rules in race crews, proper one's, lol. And great creators too to make things far more immersive than this game currently is. I definitely agree I'm after that, but to suggest I shy from challenge, genuinely laughable.

Please don't assume things of me. I'm simply saying, in combination with the many other issues I have here with this game, it's too much now. There's strong and fierce competition in more arcade like racing in many games. I don't only play GTA for racing, lol. I've many games, and just yesterday I had the PS1 out with a buddy messing about on some old gems.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Yeah, you combine all that, it makes a very restrictive game. I prefer we have control of our games. Lobbies are all good for that and 6 was a great game that offered so many things to so many types of racer, this one went too direct.

I prefer GTA purely as we have freedom. There's strong rules in race crews, proper one's, lol. And great creators too to make things far more immersive than this game currently is. I definitely agree I'm after that, but to suggest I shy from challenge, genuinely laughable.

Please don't assume things of me. I'm simply saying, in combination with the many other issues I have here with this game, it's too much now. There's strong and fierce competition in more arcade like racing in many games. I don't only play GTA for racing, lol. I've many games, and just yesterday I had the PS1 out with a buddy messing about on some old gems.

I get what you mean

In the end, play whatever's fun for you. I just wanted to say that GTS is not as hardcore as people mistake it is

 

[Sander 001]

No sir, I did read your post correctly...You clearly stated that "Like if you’re a B driver and you finish 4th but you’re the top B driver, that should count as a win."

Right, which is very different than what you claimed I said.

 

[mclarenLB]

Hardly anyone that was at the World Tour plays for more than a couple hours a day.