Islam - What's your view on it?

[Joey D]

It gets pretty hard to maintain that "religion of peace" thing when people around the world are killing people for the "crime" of being from the same country as people who made a movie they don't like, and doing it in the name of said religion.

When you look at the number of Muslims worldwide (1.62 billion) and the number that are carrying out these attacks, it's a very low number in comparison. Even if it's 100,000,000 people (which is really inflated) that's still only what 7%?

 

[kk20]

To answer a quote with another quote:

[Full Article]

I recommend the read to all.

When you look at the number of Muslims worldwide (1.62 billion) and the number that are carrying out these attacks, it's a very low number in comparison. Even if it's 100,000,000 people (which is really inflated) that's still only what 7%?

^^^^^

 

[SalmanBH]

Once again, the people protesting against the film have fallen into the trap made by the film maker. And of course, that trap was to ignite a huge matchstick which also ignited violence, hate, war, and murder.

 

[Touring Mars]

Once again, the people protesting against the film have fallen into the trap made by the film maker. And of course, that trap was to ignite a huge matchstick which also ignited violence, hate, war, and murder.

A trap made by the film maker, or a situation deliberately inflamed by Islamic extremists spoiling for a fight, and looking for yet another excuse to carry out utterly disproportionate acts of violence...?

The Egyptian PM this evening made the absurd demand that the US refrain from making any more insults toward Islam in future... a completely impossible demand... it's one thing to request that a government or a politician not make insulting remarks, but an entire nation of 300 million free people, most of whom who have internet access? Come on.

Perhaps Egypt should stop using the internet if they are so easily offended by what some random idiot decides to do for his own giggles... or maybe the Egyptian PM should be more concerned about dealing with those who are fomenting hatred and advocating and perpetrating acts of violence rather than making the absurd demand that no-one in America says anything bad about Islam ever again.

Or, perhaps those who are commiting these appaling acts of violence should realise that they cannot possibly expect to be sheltered from insults in this day and age, and that such occurences, as regretable as they are, constitute absolutely no justification for violence. Sadly, that is possibly the least plausible outcome of the lot.

 

[Dennisch]

100 people arrested in Belgium after riots broke out after a protest against the trap movie.

Meanwhile in the Netherlands....

A staggering 30 people protested peacefully against the movie, I mean trap...

 

[sumbrownkid]

So the producer behind this fiasco is now facing the possibility of jail over other crimes not related to Youtube film.

In my view though, we are just arresting him to appease the mideast somewhat. Why arrest him on prior charges right after this all goes to Hell? It seems hollow.

@Dennisch: Were those 30 people outside a coffee shop by any chance?

 

[Dennisch]

@Dennisch: Were those 30 people outside a coffee shop by any chance?

Good chance that there was a coffeeshop owner among them.

 

[Scaff]

A trap made by the film maker, or a situation deliberately inflamed by Islamic extremists spoiling for a fight, and looking for yet another excuse to carry out utterly disproportionate acts of violence...?

The Egyptian PM this evening made the absurd demand that the US refrain from making any more insults toward Islam in future... a completely impossible demand... it's one thing to request that a government or a politician not make insulting remarks, but an entire nation of 300 million free people, most of whom who have internet access? Come on.

Perhaps Egypt should stop using the internet if they are so easily offended by what some random idiot decides to do for his own giggles... or maybe the Egyptian PM should be more concerned about dealing with those who are fomenting hatred and advocating and perpetrating acts of violence rather than making the absurd demand that no-one in America says anything bad about Islam ever again.

Or, perhaps those who are commiting these appaling acts of violence should realise that they cannot possibly expect to be sheltered from insults in this day and age, and that such occurences, as regretable as they are, constitute absolutely no justification for violence. Sadly, that is possibly the least plausible outcome of the lot.

Excellent post 👍

 

[G.T.Ace]

A trap made by the film maker, or a situation deliberately inflamed by Islamic extremists spoiling for a fight, and looking for yet another excuse to carry out utterly disproportionate acts of violence...?

The Egyptian PM this evening made the absurd demand that the US refrain from making any more insults toward Islam in future... a completely impossible demand... it's one thing to request that a government or a politician not make insulting remarks, but an entire nation of 300 million free people, most of whom who have internet access? Come on.

Perhaps Egypt should stop using the internet if they are so easily offended by what some random idiot decides to do for his own giggles... or maybe the Egyptian PM should be more concerned about dealing with those who are fomenting hatred and advocating and perpetrating acts of violence rather than making the absurd demand that no-one in America says anything bad about Islam ever again.

Or, perhaps those who are commiting these appaling acts of violence should realise that they cannot possibly expect to be sheltered from insults in this day and age, and that such occurences, as regretable as they are, constitute absolutely no justification for violence. Sadly, that is possibly the least plausible outcome of the lot.

 

[Frank Fox]

Islam has many good and peaceful people, some of the best people to hang around with are muslims but also muslims have some of the worst fanatics, such that they can put most cult followers to shame.
My view I will keep to myself, I'll just say that I don't judge people based on their religion.

 

[jonjwlee]

There are liberal Muslims out there who are smart, peaceful and open-minded, who are able to think rationally and calmly when it comes to such things. Unfortunately the applecart is upset by these people who claim to be good Muslims yet turn violent whenever someone has an opinion on their religion. I don't think this would've been what Muhammad wanted -- his so-called followers rioting and killing people over a video on YouTube.

One thing I have noticed is that some Muslims harbour an incredible amount of contempt against the west, which leads to the whole "spoiling for a fight" thing that Touring Mars was talking about.

 

[BobK]

When you look at the number of Muslims worldwide (1.62 billion) and the number that are carrying out these attacks, it's a very low number in comparison. Even if it's 100,000,000 people (which is really inflated) that's still only what 7%?

You're absolutely correct of course, but my statement still stands.

 

[Scaff]

You're absolutely correct of course, but my statement still stands.

The actual percentage is much lower and I agree that it doesn't invalidate the point you make. However I would ask you to keep in mind that Ander Breivik claimed himself to be a Christian Crusader and acted little differently.

The root cause of the problem is religion itself and the desire of small numbers who follow it to use it to justify violence.

 

[SalmanBH]

We've seen this happen before. This isn't the first time someone has mocked the Prophet Muhammad. Remember the Danish artist who drew a cartoon of the prophet with a bomb in his hand?

Same thing happened at that time, but with less ambassador killing.

Main root of the problem? Not the religion itself, but the people who believe in responding to everything with anger and violence.

 

[Thinker]

Once again, the people protesting against the film have fallen into the trap made by the film maker. And of course, that trap was to ignite a huge matchstick which also ignited violence, hate, war, and murder.

Muslims must control their anger

Peace

 

[sumbrownkid]

^That is correct. Those Muslims must learn to control their anger. They have to learn the power of ignoring haters and inciters.

Unfortunately the imams they listen to do not know of this power.

 

[Sphinx]

When you look at the number of Muslims worldwide (1.62 billion) and the number that are carrying out these attacks, it's a very low number in comparison. Even if it's 100,000,000 people (which is really inflated) that's still only what 7%?

Yes, but what is the percentage within the Muslim world that support these extreme groups? I would say the support is high, perhaps not a majority, granted, but much higher than what's being suggested here.

As with any organisation or group, they are only as successful by the amount of support they must recieve in order for them to reach their goals/objective. Without it, they are nothing.

 

[kk20]

Yes, but what is the percentage within the Muslim world that support these extreme groups? I would say the support is high, perhaps not a majority, granted, but much higher than what's being suggested here.

As with any organisation or group, they are only as successful by the amount of support they must recieve in order for them to reach their goals/objective. Without it, they are nothing.

If they supported them then they would join in with the protests right? If they really did truthfully support then they would. Sure people arent happy with the video. No muslim would be. Nothing wrong with a bit of peaceful protesting. Just dont go smashing embasies and killing ambassadors.

EDL. They get absolutely no support. Only around 1000 people if im not mistaken?

 

[Joey D]

Yes, but what is the percentage within the Muslim world that support these extreme groups? I would say the support is high, perhaps not a majority, granted, but much higher than what's being suggested here.

As with any organisation or group, they are only as successful by the amount of support they must recieve in order for them to reach their goals/objective. Without it, they are nothing.

And more than likely the amount of peaceful Muslims greatly outnumbers the violent ones. Those peaceful ones are probably protesting and probably do support the idea that the movie was disrespectful, but protesting is quite a bit different than committing acts of terror.

My whole point is that Islam is a religion of peace despite what the Western world has been shown. Just because there is X percentage of extremist, does not mean in any way that is what the religion is. If Islam didn't exist, people would just use some other vehicle to be violent extremist with.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, but what is the percentage within the Muslim world that support these extreme groups? I would say the support is high, perhaps not a majority, granted, but much higher than what's being suggested here.

As with any organisation or group, they are only as successful by the amount of support they must recieve in order for them to reach their goals/objective. Without it, they are nothing.

In the US its actually lower than public perception see's it as being....

http://www.people-press.org/2011/08...rowth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/Musl...h-in-Alienation-or-Support-for-Extremism.aspx

....with the majority of US Muslims rejecting extremism, despite feeling that they are directly targeted on a day to day basis. If anything acceptance of extremism is dropping rather than increasing.

What also interesting is that outside the US the majority also reject the use of violence against civilians at all (aside from the Lebanon and the Palestinian Territories - that however is no major surprise).

 

[Famine]

^That is correct. Those Muslims must learn to control their anger. They have to learn the power of ignoring haters and inciters.

Unfortunately the imams they listen to do not know of this power.

This is probably one of the most significant problems with Islam in comparison to the other two main monotheistic religions - thrall.

Christianity and Judaism have the entry level clerics as advisors to their flock. If you're not quite sure how you would proceed, you ask your Rabbi or Priest and they advise you. In Islam - Shi'a more particularly, where Imams have a position of being chosen by Allah - Imams are leaders more than advisors and in this role they hold thrall over their worshippers.

Chuck in a population with poor educational standards (again, this is a problem with the nations rather than the religions) and if you have a radical Imam you have a radical congregation - the Imam says you must hate "x" and you hate "x". If you have a nation where radicalism is encouraged, you'll have a whole host of radical Imams.

The radicalism isn't necessarily a fault of the religion, but the heirarchy of the religion combined with local conditions generates the result - as has been said, it's no surprise that in well developed countries with high general standards of living, extremist Islam is much less common even as a proportion of Muslims in the country, compared to poor developed countries with poor general standards of living.

 

[Sphinx]

What also interesting is that outside the US the majority also reject the use of violence against civilians at all (aside from the Lebanon and the Palestinian Territories - that however is no major surprise).

I'm not ignoring the links you've provided, will get back to them when I have time to read and digest them (didn't want you to think I was). I just want to quickly pick on the section of your post above; Yes, "reject the use of violence against civillians", I accept that (although I believe it's higher than you believe), but that doesn't mean they don't support their objectives as an extreme group nor reject the use of violence against US and other military targets.

 

[Scaff]

I'm not ignoring the links you've provided, will get back to them when I have time to read and digest them (didn't want you to think I was). I just want to quickly pick on the section of your post above; Yes, "reject the use of violence against civillians", I accept that (although I believe it's higher than you believe), but that doesn't mean they don't support their objectives as an extreme group nor reject the use of violence against US and other military targets.

The study also addresses those points, which is exactly why I mentioned that support for extreme groups is actually lower than non-Muslims believe it to be and that the number who do support it has dropped over time.

Personally from my own experience of the Middle East as a region over the years I've never come across any general feeling of ill will nor support for extremist actions in the people I meet. I've felt safer walking around in the ME over the last ten years than I ever did when I had to travel to NI in the '90s.

 

[Speedonator]

I think its insane how anyone can judge an entire creed and religion based on the actions of 0000.0001% of its people. Hitler was a christian catholic but no one blames christianity because of the crimes he committed, Bush is a certified war criminal but no one blames his creed for the monstrous crimes he perpretated. So why blame Islam when a few ignorant Muslims, merely a few out of 1.6 billion step out of line? Why the double standards?

 

[Dennisch]

No one blames Islam. Radical Islam is to blame here, together with the other points adressed a couple of posts back.

 

[Scaff]

Bush is a certified war criminal but no one blames his creed for the monstrous crimes he perpretated.

While I'm not the man's biggest fan I'm fairly certain that the Hague has not issued an arrest warrant for him.

Lets stick to actual facts shall we.

 

[Public'sTwin]

While I'm not the man's biggest fan I'm fairly certain that the Hague has not issued an arrest warrant for him.

Lets stick to actual facts shall we.

Regardless of The Hague's warrants for arrest, one may consider the facts as they compare with various UN declarations. The point behind the comment was that if they were to look at the text, and compare them to his actions (and many Presidents' actions, including Obama, to be sure), he would certainly be in violation of those.

 

[Scaff]

Regardless of The Hague's warrants for arrest, one may consider the facts as they compare with various UN declarations. The point behind the comment was that if they were to look at the text, and compare them to his actions (and many Presidents' actions, including Obama, to be sure), he would certainly be in violation of those.

That would make him a possible war criminal, however a certified war criminal would strongly imply that one had been charged or even convicted (how else would one get certified).

So as I say lets stick to the facts shall we.

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

 

[Speedonator]

While I'm not the man's biggest fan I'm fairly certain that the Hague has not issued an arrest warrant for him.

Lets stick to actual facts shall we.

In the eyes of Millions, Bush and his best chum Blair are certified war criminals. I fully respect the rules but this statement is not misleading, its a fact

 

[Scaff]

In the eyes of Millions, Bush and his best chum Blair are certified war criminals. I fully respect the rules but this statement is not misleading, its a fact

No its not a fact its a matter of opinion and unless you wish to test the AUP you will drop the issue.