Islam - What's your view on it?

[Georgeagea]

Let's view one of the few honest muslim imam's view on his religion:
Watch carefully and see what he's saying.
This is one of many in your country by the way (even if he was banned). (oh and read the 2nd comment; very close to mine).

 

[Georgeagea]

@UKMikey
Good for you then. Enjoy what you believe in.
I told you it's not a full proof but they are some hints.
The debate of proofing God is a very complex topic when you're resistant to it and very simple when you're open minded.
When you think about life phylosophically and observe it around you; observe the order; observe the inexplicable things; observe the miracles; observe life itself, death, feelings, a baby's creation in his mother's womb... you can understand many things.
But yeah for you it's gonna be a huge topic that I simply don't have the time to go into.
If you are sincere about your questions, (and are open minded, not stubborn and wanting to prove God doesn't exist but rather seeking the truth), I encourage you to go into deep research.

 

[Scaff]

This is an opinion. The religion in terms of hierarchy and structure is definitely man made (since it's a human religion in the end) but inspired by God and initiated by God to fulfill peoples thirst. So don't mix the basis/philosophy behind something with how it's structured.

Which only works on the assumption that god exists, something you have not established as fact.

Until you manage to do that (with an acceptable degree of evidence), then your view is an opinion without evidence, and mine is the most logical theory based on all the available evidence.

I'm not ignoring anything. But when you read the book as whole (as I already said and as you ignored) you will discover something very different.
Jesus came to "complete" the OT as He said. When you quote half a sentence, it's completely wrong. When you complete the sentence, it becomes true.
So you cannot read the OT without the NT because it's incomplete. When you read it all, you discover who is God and what does He asks you to do. Simple.
First, for God to kill, He has the very right to do whatever He wants with His creation. Simple.
Second, when He specifically asks in a certain very specific case (like it happens in the OT) He has the very right to do so again following the 1st principle.

So if you create you are allowed to destroy?

You support infanticide then.

To be blunt you simply being an apologist now, if 'the other' god commands it then its evil, if 'my god' commands it then its justified. That's the language of the religious fanatic.

Third, I dare you to find me where does the NT entice/encourage violence.

Temple mount and the money changers is the most obvious, but also the entirety of revelations.

Yeah. I remember when Jesus said that. (sarcasm) "Love your enemies, pray for them, etc..." in the same Matthew you claim to know (let alone the numerous other times in the NT by Jesus or his disciples).

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his ownhousehold"

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

No change to OT laws (which call for death to the unbeliever).

Again missing the point. I can go kill whatever I want. How I back that up with my ideology makes the whole difference.
Again, we're discussing ideas/ideologies here, not people.

So you did go for the 'no true scotsman' logical fallacy.

Both ideologies (and just about every ideology on the planet) have been used as justification to kill, Christianity is no different (or better) than Islam in this regard. History is littered with examples of this.

Well I can't go debate Physics when I claim/believe that there's no material/particles.
You can't go debate religions when you claim/believe that there's no God.
You're now breaking all the laws of debate and common sense. God is a given truth in this talk, otherwise we would be discussing Atheism here, which unfortunately for you is not the topic of this post.

The existence of materials, etc can be proven and is falsifiable, god isn't.

Your attempting to compare two utterly different tings, with utterly different degree of supporting evidence.

True. Most muslims are casualties of their own religion. Ironic isn't it?! What you thought would save you is your own doom.

"True. Most Christians are casualties of their own religion. Ironic isn't it?! What you thought would save you is your own doom"

Works both ways if your not blind to reality. The reformation alone is estimated to have seen 120 million deaths from Christian on Christian violence alone!

Oh and to follow your logic, it's also easy to prove that God exists.

Off you go then, prove Gods existence to a scientific standard.

Until science can PROVE me how the universe was created (not stupid theories but actually proofs),

Theory, you clearly don't know what that word means.

and until science can explain to me how a man would raise form the dead,
a completely born-blind man can see in a second after a moment of faith,
a sick man can be found healed in a second after he prays deeply in faith,
Until science can PROVE to me what is love (prove it in a scientific way),
Until it can explain to me what is the consciousness in our brains, and why does it encourage you to be a good person and stings you when you do bad stuff,
Until... until... until... (I can go on for days),
until all of that, I can still continue to believe that there's God who has created the universe and has done all of the above.

Believe all you want, don;t try and claim its evidence however.

Oh and the biochemical action that causes love is both well known and well documented. Consciousness isn't, but while you may be happy to make crap up rather than acknowledge that some thing we are still working to understand, it doesn't make you right.

Let's view one of the few honest muslim imam's view on his religion:
Watch carefully and see what he's saying.
This is one of many in your country by the way (even if he was banned). (oh and read the 2nd comment; very close to mine).

He's not honest, nor a Muslim leader.

If that's the kind of crap you are going to pull then I'm going to cite Anders Brevik and David Duke as Christian leaders!

 

[Georgeagea]

Ok I'm gonna try another approach as this one seems inefficient with you.
I can say enjoy your blindness guys really.
When Islam gets your country (especially UK) by force, enforce sharia laws, force your women and your moms to wear veils, and enforce all the sharia (google it, not gonna type a 100 pages here), get you killed or someone of your family, get all your freedoms thrown out of the window, etc... then don't come cry to me please. Deal with the monster you've been raising and defending and even the monster you've known it is a monster but kept closing your eyes and don't wanna see it.

Now to answer very fast to some point, as I don't have too much free time (being at work):
Science can explain what happens during love feelings in a chemical reaction; it can explain how a baby grows from once cell to a full human etc... It can explain the what and the how but not the why and the who.
If you can't see a supernatural thing going on here then it's your problem not mine.

So if you create you are allowed to destroy?
==> Yes but here's the difference. We don't consider we're creating our babies, God is. We're just throwing the seed and God is the creator. A woman's womb is like the playfield/lab of God's work, if you will, just to make a sensible explanation (excuse my weak english).
God created you. You are his creation. He is entitled to do whatever He wants with us. Our bodies are God's temples and are His property. We're not allowed to do anything harmful with them.

Temple mount and the money changers is the most obvious, but also the entirety of revelations.
==> not a single one was hurt. He was just simply defending his own house and his father's house. If you think about it, you don't find that to be violence. It's restoring the law. Oh and he freed the captivated animals (you like that you western people).
The entirety of revelations is nothing but God's love.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his ownhousehold"
==> hahaha the very verse that muslims and simple people quote to say Jesus encouraged violence. Please watch/read some explanations.
In short, If you actually read the entirety of the passage, you find out the actual meaning of that verse. By sword and enemies between family members, he meant that some will believe and some won't which will create conflicts between the people. Read the whole passage and then please comment.
Actually the very next verse says this "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…". This clarifies what He meant with his previous verses.
The meaning is very clear and easy to understand; yet when muslims say "There's no God but Allah" some will just take one part and claim muslims said "There's no God". (see that's a good proverb including muslims).

He's not honest, nor a Muslim leader.
==> Yeah coz you don't know islam. I do. I live with it. Arabic is my mother tongue language. I read it, see it, hear it, speak with it, etc... So please allow me.

Believe all you want, don;t try and claim its evidence however.
==> True and it also goes both ways. If you can't prove that God exists, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means you failed to prove it.
Again as I said, enjoy whatever you believe. I will do the same.

Peace out!

 

[baldgye]

Ok I'm gonna try another approach as this one seems inefficient with you.
I can say enjoy your blindness guys really.
When Islam gets your country (especially UK) by force, enforce sharia laws, force your women and your moms to wear veils, and enforce all the sharia (google it, not gonna type a 100 pages here), get you killed or someone of your family, get all your freedoms thrown out of the window, etc... then don't come cry to me please. Deal with the monster you've been raising and defending and even the monster you've known it is a monster but kept closing your eyes and don't wanna see it.

Ok I'm gonna try another approach as this one seems inefficient with you.

I can see this 'new' approach being 100% efficient.

Science can explain what happens during love feelings in a chemical reaction; it can explain how a baby grows from once cell to a full human etc... It can explain the what and the how but not the why and the who.
If you can't see a supernatural thing going on here then it's your problem not mine.

Again as I said, enjoy whatever you believe. I will do the same.

Thanks for adding to the discussion, though I guess it's an improvement over previous debate around the if homosexuals are 'natural' humans....

 

[TenEightyOne]

Science can explain what happens during love feelings in a chemical reaction; it can explain how a baby grows from once cell to a full human etc... It can explain the what and the how but not the why and the who.
If you can't see a supernatural thing going on here then it's your problem not mine.

To be frank it seems that you struggle to comprehend the sheer mass of numbers in evolution. It's a stonking whopping mass of quantity over split-seconds and aeons. Putting such lack of comprehension down to "aliens" might seem a little lazy to some.

 

[Scaff]

Ok I'm gonna try another approach as this one seems inefficient with you.
I can say enjoy your blindness guys really.
When Islam gets your country (especially UK) by force, enforce sharia laws, force your women and your moms to wear veils, and enforce all the sharia (google it, not gonna type a 100 pages here), get you killed or someone of your family, get all your freedoms thrown out of the window, etc... then don't come cry to me please. Deal with the monster you've been raising and defending and even the monster you've known it is a monster but kept closing your eyes and don't wanna see it.

Right. When's that due to happen then (awaits the made up numbers that have been circulating).

You seem we've had people telling us this is due to happen for a good decade, even saying its already happened. The funny thing is whenever you push on that logic it all falls apart. As an example apparently the whole of Birmingham is a Muslim only enclave, and has been since 2015. Yet I spent the day in Sparkbrook (a part of Birmingham that's 70% Muslim) last weekend. Perfectly lovely people, good food, even found a pub, three Christian schools, two churches and a massive (biggest one I've seen) Sikh temple.

Your narrative is straight out of the far right playbook, and sounds uncomfortably like the ******** Brevik spouted.

Now to answer very fast to some point, as I don't have too much free time (being at work):
Science can explain what happens during love feelings in a chemical reaction; it can explain how a baby grows from once cell to a full human etc... It can explain the what and the how but not the why and the who.
If you can't see a supernatural thing going on here then it's your problem not mine.

Actually it does explain all of those things, you seem to be mixing up what you believe, with what's actually know (and its not supernatural).

So if you create you are allowed to destroy?
==> Yes but here's the difference. We don't consider we're creating our babies, God is. We're just throwing the seed and God is the creator. A woman's womb is like the playfield/lab of God's work, if you will, just to make a sensible explanation (excuse my weak english).
God created you. You are his creation. He is entitled to do whatever He wants with us. Our bodies are God's temples and are His property. We're not allowed to do anything harmful with them.

God didn't create my kids, my wife and I did.

Nor am I anyone's property, but you clearly have downed the kool-aid in a big way.

Temple mount and the money changers is the most obvious, but also the entirety of revelations.
==> not a single one was hurt. He was just simply defending his own house and his father's house. If you think about it, you don't find that to be violence. It's restoring the law. Oh and he freed the captivated animals (you like that you western people).
The entirety of revelations is nothing but God's love.

Explain exactly what tools and methods he used to remove these people (include the approximate numbers involved).

I've covered this before with people, and no way was it possible to do it without the use of force.

Oh and god's love is now the death (and damnation) of anyone who doesn't believe well enough and falls outside of the 44,000 chosen?

Oh and:

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Jesus is in full support of the OT laws still being used, and as such has no issue with the killing of Children, rape victims who don't cry out, slavery, killing homosexuals and all manner of small offenses being punished with death.

Matthew 8:32
Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below
Jesus has no issue with animal cruelty at all, killing an entire herd of pigs and as a result destroying the livelihood of those that farmed them (so much that they asked him to leave). Would a perfect person have not been able to drive out these demons without killing the entire herd? Oh wait demons don't exist, so he basically just killed a load of pigs.

Matthew 10:14-15
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Anyone who lives in a house or city doesn't accept Jesus and his religious view is going to suffer a worse fate that Sodom and Gomorrah! Two cities in which every inhabitant (regardless of guilt of anything) were killed apart from Lot's family (well apart from his wife who was killed for the evil of 'looking back. So Jesus preaches genocide on those houses and cities that will not follow his particular world view

That's three to get you started, the Bible has many more, so if they are not enough plenty more exist.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his ownhousehold"
==> hahaha the very verse that muslims and simple people quote to say Jesus encouraged violence. Please watch/read some explanations.
In short, If you actually read the entirety of the passage, you find out the actual meaning of that verse. By sword and enemies between family members, he meant that some will believe and some won't which will create conflicts between the people. Read the whole passage and then please comment.
Actually the very next verse says this "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…". This clarifies what He meant with his previous verses.

Your interpretation of it, others disagree, and have used it to justify the use of force by Christians.

Question. Ten commandments - valid or not?

The meaning is very clear and easy to understand; yet when muslims say "There's no God but Allah" some will just take one part and claim muslims said "There's no God". (see that's a good proverb including muslims).

Those double standards of yours again.

He's not honest, nor a Muslim leader.
==> Yeah coz you don't know islam. I do. I live with it. Arabic is my mother tongue language. I read it, see it, hear it, speak with it, etc... So please allow me.

So he speaks for all of Islam does he? Nope, he's been dissavowed by more than he has been supported by, by a massive factor.

However given that you are attempting to pull this particular card, well done you just gave me the mandate to use Christian fundamentalists words as a Christian leaders right back at you.

Believe all you want, don;t try and claim its evidence however.
==> True and it also goes both ways. If you can't prove that God exists, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means you failed to prove it.
Again as I said, enjoy whatever you believe. I will do the same.

No it doesn't mean god doesn't exist (quote me stating as a fact that - you will not be able to do so), however the burden of proof doesn't rest with me. It rests with you, you made the claim for existence, its up to you to support it. Which to date you have utterly failed to do so.

I'm an atheist, not a non-theist, you should learn the difference before throwing accusations that don't apply around.

Peace out!

Given your stance that carries zero weight at all.

Don't claim to stand for peace while wanting to remove freedom of religion from over a billion people.

 

[Imari]

First, for God to kill, He has the very right to do whatever He wants with His creation. Simple.

So what's your problem with Islamic violence then?

Well I can't go debate Physics when I claim/believe that there's no material/particles.

You can, you just have to have some sort of explanation for why all the observations that seem to support material and particles are incorrect.

You can't go debate religions when you claim/believe that there's no God.

Sure you can, you just have to have some sort of explanation for why people choose to believe in an unseen all-powerful sky daddy.

And frankly, "they're human, humans have a long history of making imaginary stories to explain phenomena and it seems to be pretty fundamental to how our brains work" fits just fine.

Until... until... until... (I can go on for days)...

What you're saying is that there's no proof that you would accept. Which is fine, it's just not exactly as rational as you might think it is. But again, humans being humans, they are regularly irrational.

The debate of proofing God is a very complex topic when you're resistant to it and very simple when you're open minded.

You're mistaking "open-minded" for "uncritically accepting". Something like gravity, an unseen force with a mechanism that is at best quite poorly understood, can be explained and demonstrated to even the most skeptical person in the world.

If your "proof" requires that people not question it, then it's probably not a proof.

 

[SestoScudo]

A lot of people tend to mistake that the Turks and Kurds have been fighting each other for centuries that is not true.

Reason for this whole conflict dates back to the aftermath of WW1.

Allies promise the Kurds a country if they took up arms against the Ottomans. Not all Kurds took up arms against the Ottoman Empire but some did.

Whole root dates back to the founding of Turkey. Ottomans actually gave lots of regional autonomy to many Kurdish chiefs but Ataturk took this away to make Turkey into a centralised state with one identity which is the Turkish identity.

As much as we respect Ataturk as the founder of Turkey he did a big mistake by taking away regional autonomy of the Kurds not to mention imposing Turkish culture on Non Turks in the country did not sit well especially when the Kurds were the second biggest ethnic group in Turkey.

Ataturk wanted Turkey to a centralised country under one ethnic group while he ignored the various other ethnic groups in the country.

You can see the same thing with many other countries in the Balkans and the Middle East too. All those ethnic groups need to make way for for a single ethnic group.

 

[TenEightyOne]

A lot of people tend to mistake that the Turks and Kurds have been fighting each other for centuries that is not true.

Reason for this whole conflict dates back to the aftermath of WW1.

That's kind-of-by-default because that's when Turkey began to exist. Kurds .vs. Ottomans goes back way further... so they have been fighting for centuries.

 

[Tina Branford]

I first of all have to say that I don't like the forced female circumcision aspect. I researched into female circumcision and it's done to lesser or greater extremes(Type 1 and Type II all the way to Type 4 ugh) depending on the misogyny and hatred present in that sect of Islam. The radical Muslims perform the severe stage 2 and even the horrendous Stage 3 and 4 mutilations that take off sections of the clitoris or the entire clitoris! This greatly limits and in many cases NEGATES ALL sexual pleasure from the poor female for the rest of her life. Stage 1 and lesser extreme versions of Stage II still allow the woman to feel sexual pleasure but to a slightly limited extent(akin to male circumcision) So yeah with that and counting the insane members of ISIS killing and beheading people left and right plus when it commands believers to kill unbelievers and idol worshipers or people with opposing religious affiliations in the ninth chapter verse 5. Plus there is the whole marrying off nine year old girls thing that is pretty dang disturbing.

Overall not a fan and it's a blight on this world.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I first of all have to say that I don't like the forced female circumcision aspect. I researched into female circumcision and it's done to lesser or greater extremes(Type 1 and Type II all the way to Type 4 ugh) depending on the misogyny and hatred present in that sect of Islam. The radical Muslims perform the severe stage 2 and even the horrendous Stage 3 and 4 mutilations that take off sections of the clitoris or the entire clitoris! This greatly limits and in many cases NEGATES ALL sexual pleasure from the poor female for the rest of her life. Stage 1 and lesser extreme versions of Stage II still allow the woman to feel sexual pleasure but to a slightly limited extent(akin to male circumcision)

Agreed, it's a hideous practice.

So yeah with that and counting the insane members of ISIS killing and beheading people left and right

Another even more extremist practice. Anybody using any excuse for that kind of ridiculous, murderous activity should be punished.

plus when it commands believers to kill unbelievers and idol worshipers or people with opposing religious affiliations in the ninth chapter verse 5.

Do you mean "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful", because that's actually about idolatry rather than aspostacy. You can see that with a charitable donation (zakah) safety can be bought. You also omitted a reference to the next verse: "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

Christianity, obviously the same religion to a very large extent, says that "and whoever causes one of these believing in me to fall, it would be better for him if instead a donkey's millstone were lying around his neck, and he had been thrown into the sea". The lesson from that is that the first-millenium views on apostacy can be harsh, can be seen as of-their-time, but are also viewed differently (except by the most extreme) in modern times. Modern hadith and bible teachings do not support punishments for apostacy except amongst Christian, Jewish or Muslim extremists.

Plus there is the whole marrying off nine year old girls thing that is pretty dang disturbing.

I've said it before and I'll surely say it again... the USA is a first world society and has a large number of child marriages. I agree with you (if that's what you're saying) that child marriage is wrong but wrapping social acceptance of that up in religion is disingenous.

Overall not a fan and it's a blight on this world.

If you take the examples that extremists use then yes, extremist interpretation of anything is a blight on this world. Singling out Islam from Christianity and Judaism seems odd in that context though. The vast majority of atheists and god-believers manage to live in peace, don't want to do murders, don't practice extreme versions of any given belief set and aren't too bothered if other people believe something different from them. It seems to me that it's the extremists you're worried about although you're writing as if you believe the whole of Islam/Christianity/Judaism is like that.

 

[Tina Branford]

I really appreciate you clearing some of those things up TenEightyOne. I was being brash when making some parts of my post especially concerning the misunderstanding on the unbelievers. Still the religion is hateful, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and so on so for whatever positives it has it doesn't mitigate all it's negatives. Same with Christianity and Judaism. Being that I'm transgender and those religions are essentially opposed to me and would send me to a place of eternal torture or depending on interpretation eternal separation from god I can't respect them at all.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Still the religion is hateful, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and so on so for whatever positives it has it doesn't mitigate all it's negatives.

Well, that's another difficulty if you're trying to specify Islam. Homophobia, transphobia, sexism, hate... they can all be justified by use of any of the three Abrahamic core texts and the hadith/teachings/sees that follow them. They can also be justified against through those texts. Being of those religions does not guarantee those views. There are states of all religious flavours that hold those phobic views at their core and there are states whose view is becoming more "modern". 40% of US Muslims support same sex marriage, for example, compared to 60% of Americans in general (which sample may or may not include Muslims). There's certainly a difference there but not enough to make a blanket statement about Islam that suggests an opposite view from other religions.

Being religious/atheist is not an automatic indicator of being a ********. Being a ******** is.

 

[SestoScudo]

That's kind-of-by-default because that's when Turkey began to exist. Kurds .vs. Ottomans goes back way further... so they have been fighting for centuries.

Usually between the Ottoman Empire and various Kurdish tribal chiefs very different to todays Turkey vs Kurds conflict.

Which is mainly nationalist and down to ethnicity compared to the Ottomans vs Tribal Kurds.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Usually between the Ottoman Empire and various Kurdish tribal chiefs very different to todays Turkey vs Kurds conflict.

Which is mainly nationalist and down to ethnicity compared to the Ottomans vs Tribal Kurds.

'Twas ever thus, wiki has some good sources. Effectively Kurdish populations have been fighting for land and self-preservation since time immemorial. The conflict with Turkey is only the modern phase of a very long struggle.

 

[Carbonox]

The woman on death row for BS blasphemy charges on Pakistan has successfully reached Canada.

What's particularly concerning in a way is the fact that the government effectively had to shield her from average civilians, who have been the biggest aggressors throughout this case, as already evidenced by their rioting in response to the death penalty being overturned. Usually you'd hear stories of the government being on the oppressive side of things in this part of the world, but here the worst people aren't the ones wearing suits and ties.

 

[Dennisch]

It's almost as if the average civilians were brainwashed from birth by something backwards and terribly outdated.

How odd is that!

 

[Dobermann92]

Well, that's another difficulty if you're trying to specify Islam. Homophobia, transphobia, sexism, hate... they can all be justified by use of any of the three Abrahamic core texts and the hadith/teachings/sees that follow them. They can also be justified against through those texts. Being of those religions does not guarantee those views. There are states of all religious flavours that hold those phobic views at their core and there are states whose view is becoming more "modern". 40% of US Muslims support same sex marriage, for example, compared to 60% of Americans in general (which sample may or may not include Muslims). There's certainly a difference there but not enough to make a blanket statement about Islam that suggests an opposite view from other religions.

Being religious/atheist is not an automatic indicator of being a ********. Being a ******** is.

Ask those questions in Saudi Arabia and you will know how brainwashing Islam is.

 

[TexRex]

Ask those questions in Saudi Arabia and you will know how brainwashing Islam is.

Surely you don't mean to suggest that it's unique in that regard?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ask those questions in Saudi Arabia and you will know how brainwashing Islam is.

Or Alabama.

 

[TexRex]

Or Alabama.

Can I get a clarification here? I can't imagine the degree of brainwashing by proponents of Islam would be apparent when those questions are asked of Alabama residents.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Can I get a clarification here? I can't imagine the degree of brainwashing by proponents of Islam would be apparent when those questions are asked of Alabama residents.

It depends if you class Islam as being entirely philosophically separate from Christianity. But yes, I could have beened more clearerer.

 

[TexRex]

It depends if you class Islam as being entirely philosophically separate from Christianity.

I feel like a statistically significant number of Alabamians would.

beened more clearerer

 

[SestoScudo]

Ask those questions in Saudi Arabia and you will know how brainwashing Islam is.

So a following a religion given to your parents is considered brainwashing.

This is pathetic. If somebody is holding onto their religion till the end maybe because they believe is the truth or perhaps it gives them meaning in this life.

So how is that brainwashing?? Let me guess anybody who follows a religion especially Islam will turn into some mindless fanatic who is brainwashed. Sorry I dont buy that.

Fanaticism is not only unique to religion it can be found every where.

 

[Dennisch]

So a following a religion given to your parents is considered brainwashing.

This is pathetic. If somebody is holding onto their religion till the end maybe because they believe is the truth or perhaps it gives them meaning in this life.

So how is that brainwashing?? Let me guess anybody who follows a religion especially Islam will turn into some mindless fanatic who is brainwashed. Sorry I dont buy that.

Fanaticism is not only unique to religion it can be found every where.

Read this to see what actual brainwashing does to people.


And that's not an isolated case in the wonderful world of peaceful Islam.

 

[Dotini]

Lutheranism is one of the more thoughtful brands of Christianity, I hear. In Alabama, people strongly tend to be Methodist, Baptist and Evangelical. Islam has Sufism and Wahhabism at its poles. But for maximum individuality and freedom of thought and action, for better or worse you can't beat secularism and atheism. A totally unprincipled Machiavellian narcissist can step away from the herd and do the wild thing.

 

[PocketZeven]

It's almost as if the average civilians were brainwashed from birth by something backwards and terribly outdated.

How odd is that!

But is it related to religion or economics?

 

[Dobermann92]

Surely you don't mean to suggest that it's unique in that regard?

It isn't uniqe to islam of course, I never said that, I just reacted to the poll TenEightyOne mentioned.

Or Alabama.

In some aspects yes, it is the same thing with fundamentalist christianity, although most of them don't want to propose death penalty for apostasy.

So a following a religion given to your parents is considered brainwashing.

This is pathetic. If somebody is holding onto their religion till the end maybe because they believe is the truth or perhaps it gives them meaning in this life.

So how is that brainwashing?? Let me guess anybody who follows a religion especially Islam will turn into some mindless fanatic who is brainwashed. Sorry I dont buy that.

Fanaticism is not only unique to religion it can be found every where.

If you solely believe in the religion because you were born into it and your parents and your teachers told you that you should believe that, otherwise you go to Hell to burn forever then yes, it is brainwashing. If you hear it every day from all of the people around you then you have a much lesser chance of becoming an atheist or a skeptic of any sorts. They aren't all fanatics, but most of them were brainwashed, please don't confuse the two.

 

[Liquid]

Story from Germany. Here's a translation:

Young Muslims (dressed in traditional garb because of Eid) ran through Köln railway station to get to the platform. For that they were taken to the ground and cuffed; the station was locked down. They hadn't done anything other than "look suspicious", which was enough for such drastic measures.



Subsequent tweets in this thread state that allegations that they shouted Allahu Akbar were completely false. Others saying that their clothes weren't unusual looking anyway.

An English language report of the incident (Daily Express) is still running with the headline that "men in black vests stormed the station".

I know it's the Express and it's a vomit-inducing rag but still...