Islam - What's your view on it?

  • Thread starter SalmanBH
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If the Quran is no more provocative of violence against "the other" than any other religious text, and it's not Islam which provokes violence, then how do you explain:-

The unparalleled (in any other religion) "Danish Cartoons" reaction in which Muslims went on rampages around the world resulting in the deaths of about 200 people? Is this "normal" behavior, or is it just that the perpetrators were all "victims"?
I'm sorry did all 1.6 billion Muslims go on a rampage?

Are you honestly saying that no other religion has ever acted in this way?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22356306
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-a...ks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

Its seems that the statement in your signature needs a bit of a work out, as your world view as far as Islam goes is a little black and white.




The virtual "ownership" of Suicide Bombing by Muslims? Coincidence?
I've already in this thread discussed this and the fact that the IRA seriously considered doing exactly that and only didn't because of publicity. Instead they went for proxy bombs, forcing others to carry out suicide attacks.



The number of violent acts committed by Muslims in non-Muslim countries in the name of Islam. Think New York, the Pentagon, Pensylvania, Brussels, London, Boston, Madrid, Toulouse, Amsterdam...... The perpetrators had all been exposed to Western civilization and education. Was this what drove them to violent religious fanaticism?
An extreme version of a religion that is not shared by the majority.

Just like Ander Brevik, the LRA, the IRA, American evangelicals in SS Africa (the main cause of homophobic laws in that region), the BBS, Ashin Wirathu, the Khalistan movement and others, Anti-balaka, Britain First, NLFT,Army of God, Iron Guard, etc.

Would you like me to go on? Name a religion and you will have a group that takes it to extremes, what is/was different with Islamic extremists is that AQ managed for a short period to get a number of them working together. I also don't rule out the effect the attacks on the US had on the American world-view play a part in the focus on the activities of extremists in one religion.

After all the vast majority of the US turned a blind eye to religious terrorist fund-rasing and arms supplies for years, while the people behind it were killing people in the UK and Europe.


In which case why don't we see a proportional number of atheists doing the same thing around the world in response, say, to atheism being a capital crime in many countries around the world? (An exercise for the reader. Identify these countries, for each country identify the dominant religion and write it down. When this is complete, post your list of these religions. Hint: it's a very, VERY short list of religions.)
Since when has atheism been a religion? NAd since when did I say that every Islamic state was a nice happy shiny place?

Most of the countries you are talking about have an issue with apostasy full stop, not just atheism, and I will be the first to condemn that. Which is exactly why I have said that the rule of law should always be secular.

I have traveled to at least two of the countries that would appear on that list and am still alive, a point worth noting.



The article linked below includes these words -

Wherever I go, armed policemen go with me to protect me against Islamic groups who have vowed to assassinate me because they disagree with my opinion that Islam is not a religion of peace.

Have I or others said that no Muslims are a problem?

Nope, as such that point is absurd.

I do however see that you are either unaware or are ignoring the very close political links that he has with Israel (as do the Gatestone Institute), so its not like he might have a political agenda behind this at all is it?


http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4733/stop-denying-the-obvious-islam-is-a-problem

Do Muslims behave they way they do as reported in the link above because they are victims? Is it just coincidence? If it's not the Quran nor the teachings of Islam, then what's the cause?

And please don't say "but it's not every Muslim". That misinterpretation is getting to be a little overused.
I've already addressed this is another post.

Not to mention that gatestone has issues with bias of its own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatestone_Institute#Criticism



EDIT:-
Maybe we should treat the above violences with the same attitude used to Female Genital Mutilation, another practice "owned" by Muslims. Let's just put them all down to "rich cultural differences". I'm kidding.
Oh dear.

FGM is a major and serious issue, and its also not one that is unique to Islam, some of the African countries with the highest percentages (Liberia and Ethiopia spring to mind) are predominately Christian.

I take it you have a similar issue with Jewish circumcision rituals, particularly metzitzah b'peh, which its estimated results in the death of around 15 babies per year in NYC alone.
 
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I'm sorry did all 1.6 billion Muslims go on a rampage?
No. Not every Muslim went on a rampage. And not every non-Muslim in the world was killed.

Are you trying to make the point that 200 deaths as a result of people becoming offended over cartoons is a minor matter?

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of their outrage?

I've already in this thread discussed this and the fact that the IRA seriously considered doing exactly that and only didn't because of publicity. Instead they went for proxy bombs, forcing others to carry out suicide attacks.
But the IRA did not actually do it. It takes a particular mindset to become a suicide bomber, or it takes extreme coercion. The people who were forced to carry out suicide attacks were perfectly inoffensive human beings until confronted with force.

The Muslim suicide bomber apparently looks forward to the planned attack with positive anticipation. One can not say the same for those who were used by the IRA.

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of Muslims' desire to use their life in such a way?
An extreme version of a religion that is not shared by the majority.
It does't take a majority, just a consistency.

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of the Muslims' extremism?
Since when has atheism been a religion? NAd since when did I say that every Islamic state was a nice happy shiny place?

Most of the countries you are talking about have an issue with apostasy full stop, not just atheism, and I will be the first to condemn that. Which is exactly why I have said that the rule of law should always be secular.
I didn't say that atheism is a religion. Are you saying that one must be religious to consider violent action against laws proscribing thought?

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of the Muslim countries' extreme laws?
I have traveled to at least two of the countries that would appear on that list and am still alive, a point worth noting.
The point is not your individual survival, it is that those countries thought to create laws making atheism a "crime" worth a death penalty. You don't think that there is something wrong with people who would enact such laws?

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of the Muslim countries' extreme attitudes?
I take it you have a similar issue with Jewish circumcision rituals, particularly metzitzah b'peh, which its estimated results in the death of around 15 babies per year in NYC alone.
I certainly do. And not just this bizarre and barbaric practice. I also resent the fact that my Christian parents chose to inflict circumcision on me, although I don't know if it was their Christianity which drove them to it.

That said, Female Genital Mutilation (or "FGM" as you so coyly put it), is another level of barbarousness beyond male circumcision.
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I don't understand why we see so much apologism for Islam. I also don't see why the magnitude of the Islam problem is so often dismissed as being equivalent in size and scope to the appalling behavior of other religions.

I do see that a big difference between, say, the Bible and the Quran is that the Bible has many contributing authors, all considered (but not claiming) to be recording the "Word of God", whereas the Quran has one author claiming to be presenting the word of God.

Another difference is that the Quran's exhortations to violence against the unbeliever are one-ended, and not just targeted on one tribe or group of people at a particular point in time.
 
Its a religion along same lines of Christianity or Judaism as they intersect .
It like Christianity and Judaism has a core and also radical sects .
Currently the radical elements having adapted to social media have been able to grow and establish a large footprint beyond the reality of their actual capabilities.
Like any other evil , it needs be confronted and stomped .
Through history all western Religions have been used to justify evil actions .
Now we have social media so the danger is amplified.
 
No. Not every Muslim went on a rampage. And not every non-Muslim in the world was killed.

Are you trying to make the point that 200 deaths as a result of people becoming offended over cartoons is a minor matter?

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of their outrage?
Did I state it was a minor matter? No.

As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.


But the IRA did not actually do it. It takes a particular mindset to become a suicide bomber, or it takes extreme coercion. The people who were forced to carry out suicide attacks were perfectly inoffensive human beings until confronted with force.

The Muslim suicide bomber apparently looks forward to the planned attack with positive anticipation. One can not say the same for those who were used by the IRA.

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of Muslims' desire to use their life in such a way?
Apparently being the operative word and its a moot point, the end rest is dead innocent people.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.



It does't take a majority, just a consistency.

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of the Muslims' extremism?
So a small but consistent group of people practicing a fundamental form of religion is enough to condemn the whole.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.


I didn't say that atheism is a religion. Are you saying that one must be religious to consider violent action against laws proscribing thought?

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of the Muslim countries' extreme laws?
No I'm saying atheism doesn't have a credo or code to form an ideology.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.



The point is not your individual survival, it is that those countries thought to create laws making atheism a "crime" worth a death penalty. You don't think that there is something wrong with people who would enact such laws?

And back to the fundamental question, what was the source of the Muslim countries' extreme attitudes?
I personally think that of any country that practices the death penalty for any crime.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.



I certainly do. And not just this bizarre and barbaric practice. I also resent the fact that my Christian parents chose to inflict circumcision on me, although I don't know if it was their Christianity which drove them to it.

That said, Female Genital Mutilation (or "FGM" as you so coyly put it), is another level of barbarousness beyond male circumcision.
Its a common abbreviation so the 'coy' dig is neither needed or warranted.

I also was not referring to the Christian side of it, as that pretty much doesn't exist, its an American cultural thing. Here in Europe its not practiced among Christianity at all.

I was (and specifically did) refer to the Jewish practice, including the sucking of blood from the child's penis by the Rabbi. A practice that kills and is 'weird' to say the least, yet oddly is a subject that Americans seem quite reluctant to discuss.


I don't understand why we see so much apologism for Islam. I also don't see why the magnitude of the Islam problem is so often dismissed as being equivalent in size and scope to the appalling behavior of other religions.

I do see that a big difference between, say, the Bible and the Quran is that the Bible has many contributing authors, all considered (but not claiming) to be recording the "Word of God", whereas the Quran has one author claiming to be presenting the word of God.

Another difference is that the Quran's exhortations to violence against the unbeliever are one-ended, and not just targeted on one tribe or group of people at a particular point in time.
I don't see why we see so much apologism for other religions and a focus on the violence and bigotry practiced by one religion? I gave you a rather large list of extremist groups and actions for non-Muslims faiths and the total response on them was silence? Have you investigated them all in detail already?

I don't know if it was growing up in a country that suffered a the hands of terrorism for decades that makes me a little less black and white about it; or living, working and travelling in the Gulf helped understand that te majority of Muslims are no different from the majority of the rest of the world.

I do also find it interesting the point you make about the Koran, as Dotini infers with his post the sole use of the Koran as a text is actually limited to a small fundamentalist sect within Islam (far less than the Sunni and Shiah - however Wahhabism is a sect if Sunni). Other Muslim sect have a number of Holy texts beyond the Koran, with a range of authors (not big surprise as they are effectively the Torah/OT and NT) oops abbreviations - sorry to be coy.

Wahhabism is arguably the sect of Islam that is the core root of all fundamentalism, and has only existed since the 18th Century (a far shorter period that Islam has been around), its this sect that considers all non-Wahhabism apostates, drove the Afghan conflict with the Russian, and through it the roots to OBL and AQ.

So I personally think that anyone who anyone who simply see's Islam when they see Islamic fundamentalism is either unaware or simply ignoring the rather complex root by which it came into being and just how small the fundamental sect behind it is in comparison to the whole religion.

Now as an Athiest I have issue with any religion being tied to the laws of a society (even the UK is far too close the CoE for my likening, and the US needs to re-establish the separation in a big way), but I'm not so naive as to not look behind the headlines at what might actually be the root of the issue in question, either that or it might be the lack of 'trying to kill me' that has occurred from the thousands of Muslims I have come across in my life.
 
Did I state it was a minor matter? No.

As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.



Apparently being the operative word and its a moot point, the end rest is dead innocent people.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.




So a small but consistent group of people practicing a fundamental form of religion is enough to condemn the whole.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.



No I'm saying atheism doesn't have a credo or code to form an ideology.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.




I personally think that of any country that practices the death penalty for any crime.

Oh, As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.




Its a common abbreviation so the 'coy' dig is neither needed or warranted.

I also was not referring to the Christian side of it, as that pretty much doesn't exist, its an American cultural thing. Here in Europe its not practiced among Christianity at all.

I was (and specifically did) refer to the Jewish practice, including the sucking of blood from the child's penis by the Rabbi. A practice that kills and is 'weird' to say the least, yet oddly is a subject that Americans seem quite reluctant to discuss.



I don't see why we see so much apologism for other religions and a focus on the violence and bigotry practiced by one religion? I gave you a rather large list of extremist groups and actions for non-Muslims faiths and the total response on them was silence? Have you investigated them all in detail already?

I don't know if it was growing up in a country that suffered a the hands of terrorism for decades that makes me a little less black and white about it; or living, working and travelling in the Gulf helped understand that te majority of Muslims are no different from the majority of the rest of the world.

I do also find it interesting the point you make about the Koran, as Dotini infers with his post the sole use of the Koran as a text is actually limited to a small fundamentalist sect within Islam (far less than the Sunni and Shiah - however Wahhabism is a sect if Sunni). Other Muslim sect have a number of Holy texts beyond the Koran, with a range of authors (not big surprise as they are effectively the Torah/OT and NT) oops abbreviations - sorry to be coy.

Wahhabism is arguably the sect of Islam that is the core root of all fundamentalism, and has only existed since the 18th Century (a far shorter period that Islam has been around), its this sect that considers all non-Wahhabism apostates, drove the Afghan conflict with the Russian, and through it the roots to OBL and AQ.

So I personally think that anyone who anyone who simply see's Islam when they see Islamic fundamentalism is either unaware or simply ignoring the rather complex root by which it came into being and just how small the fundamental sect behind it is in comparison to the whole religion.

Now as an Athiest I have issue with any religion being tied to the laws of a society (even the UK is far too close the CoE for my likening, and the US needs to re-establish the separation in a big way), but I'm not so naive as to not look behind the headlines at what might actually be the root of the issue in question, either that or it might be the lack of 'trying to kill me' that has occurred from the thousands of Muslims I have come across in my life.
Can I just add that most just need to realize that Religion is not in any form BAD .
People are bad . People decide to use religion as a tool .
People decide to believe nonsense.
People decide to chop off heads is sonehow to ANY God , a good thing .
You cant cure stupid .
Keep in mind Stalin and Hitler and Pol pot and Serbian nationalist and Mao , all guilty of totally amazing genocides . None driven by any Religion.
Go to Genocide continent of Africa.
Its with exception of Sudan most all tribal or resources. No Religion.
Now look at Islamic nitwit radicals . Look at the hype they get .
But put them in perspective with the history of Genocidal maniacs.
Danger ? Potential?
Yes they have that.
10,000 US Marines at any time can remove Isis from earth and stabilize Iraq . And pressure Syria.
But it will not ever remove the root cause of the rise of Radical Islamist.
And those that do get will not understand that the Culture radicals swim in RESPECT and Understand the force and power of being wiped out by angry Marines more than they do milksop feelgood talking and negotiate imbeciles.
All the more ideological peace and love types do for radical Islamist is provide them with more heads to chop off on youtube for the Propaganda value.
You negotiate with this bunch using a postion of strength, and you get that only by confronting them and extermination of the military arm .
After you will find time to alleviate and shrink the poverty and unfair treatment that forms the bottomless talent recruitment pool and the painfully apparent reason , so many find barbaric changes in culture such an attractive alternative.
 
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As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.

Citation needed as how do you know the majority interpret the Quran differently as opposed to just ignoring parts they can't interpret rationally. In fact, how do you even know the majority have read the Quran?

@ledhed How can people realise something that isn't true? The basis of pretty much all religions, accepting something on faith, is bad, and that's before we even get into any specifics.

As for saying "people decide to believe nonsense", that is a very naive view, as quite a lot of people are manipulated into believing things that they otherwise wouldn't.
 
If you believe people have free will then its not nonsense.
Religion may not be " real " to you but your opinion cant change the fact its real to billions and you cant change that.
Being manipulated is a poor excuse . My TV has people constantly trying to manipulate me to buy things .
I can say no .
So can a Muslim or any other flavor of Radical.
 
Can I just add that most just need to realize that Religion is not in any form BAD .
People are bad . People decide to use religion as a tool .
People decide to believe nonsense.
People decide to chop off heads is sonehow to ANY God , a good thing .
You cant cure stupid .
Keep in mind Stalin and Hitler and Pol pot and Serbian nationalist and Mao , all guilty of totally amazing genocides . None driven by any Religion.
Go to Genocide continent of Africa.
Its with exception of Sudan most all tribal or resources. No Religion.
Now look at Islamic nitwit radicals . Look at the hype they get .
But put them in perspective with the history of Genocidal maniacs.
Danger ? Potential?
Yes they have that.
10,000 US Marines at any time can remove Isis from earth and stabilize Iraq . And pressure Syria.
But it will not ever remove the root cause of the rise of Radical Islamist.
And those that do get will not understand that the Culture radicals swim in RESPECT and Understand the force and power of being wiped out by angry Marines more than they do milksop feelgood talking and negotiate imbeciles.
All the more ideological peace and love types do for radical Islamist is provide them with more heads to chop off on youtube for the Propaganda value.
You negotiate with this bunch using a postion of strength, and you get that only by confronting them and extermination of the military arm .
After you will find time to alleviate and shrink the poverty and unfair treatment that forms the bottomless talent recruitment pool and the painfully apparent reason , so many find barbaric changes in culture such an attractive alternative.
A slight correction

Hitler most certainly did credit his religion (Catholicism) and dedicated his final solution to his maker (god), reference to which can be found throughout his speeches and texts.

Stalin used religion however it suited him at time banning it and then later helping to reestablish the strength of the orthodox church .

Serbian Nationalism, if you go back to its roots has always been part of the historic struggle between Christian Europe and the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

Pol Pot is probably the closest to the no religion of the lot.

At the end of the day you will find religion used to justify extermisim, hatred, bigotry and violence (to claim this is just the individual is absurd), but that doesn't automatically mean that the whole will act in the same way or even share that interpretation or view.

Citation needed as how do you know the majority interpret the Quran differently as opposed to just ignoring parts they can't interpret rationally. In fact, how do you even know the majority have read the Quran?

@ledhed How can people realise something that isn't true? The basis of pretty much all religions, accepting something on faith, is bad, and that's before we even get into any specifics.

As for saying "people decide to believe nonsense", that is a very naive view, as quite a lot of people are manipulated into believing things that they otherwise wouldn't.

I suggest taking a look at Wahhabism and its place in fundamental Islam, it is the birth of fundamental Islam as we recognise it today and gave birth to Saudi as we know it today (and its fundamentalist version of Islam).

Wahhabism is not a large sect by any means, but it does form the ruling elite of Saudi, as such its influence is out of direct proportion to its size within Islamic sects and now faces the Irony that the fundamentalist groups it gave birth to are now a direct threat to it.

You do however raise a good point in regard to having read it.

The vast majority of Muslims I have come across have read it (and the other texts), to a far greater degree than Christians and the Bible in my experience), which is why an increasing number of those radicalized are the newly converted or very young. As evidenced by a number of those who have traveled to join IS having bought Islam for Dummies before leaving. These people often have a view of Islam that has been heavily shaped by radical on-line sermons. The Sunni sect is at the greatest danger of this as it doesn't have the same structure with it to become an Imam, quite literally anyone can preach and claim the status of Imam.
 
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As to the cause, a specific interpretation of the Islam by a minority.

@Scaff, I'm assuming that by "the Islam" you mean "the Quran".

Assuming this, then we go back to identifying the Quran as the Proximate Cause, which is a result of what might be the Ultimate Cause, being the ambiguity of the language used in the Quran. If it's open to interpretation* of a meaning which is in conflict with the notion of the "religion of peace", then it's ambiguous and imperfect.

Scholars of causation may want to take it further, by asking, "well, who wrote this ambiguous book?"

The answer is obviously "the Prophet".

Then scholars of causation may ask "Whose words are they, the Prophet's or someone else's?"

Which should lead us to the Ultimate, Ultimate Cause, which is .....?

* Assuming that this interpretation is not just a one-off incident, but is a common interpretation among a large number of people. Which it is.
 
If you believe people have free will then its not nonsense.
Religion may not be " real " to you but your opinion cant change the fact its real to billions and you cant change that.
Being manipulated is a poor excuse . My TV has people constantly trying to manipulate me to buy things .
I can say no .
So can a Muslim or any other flavor of Radical.

Are you seriously comparing indoctrination and brainwashing to TV adverts? Also, was the first half of post meant to address anything I said, because I fail to see how it does, or what point you were trying to make.
 
I don't have particularly strong views on islam, so I can't really add anything beyond the "extremists in every religion" argument...

But, somebody shared this on Facebook the other day and I thought it was relevant to some of the discussions in this thread, apologies if it's been posted already..

 
If you believe people have free will then its not nonsense.
Religion may not be " real " to you but your opinion cant change the fact its real to billions and you cant change that.
Being manipulated is a poor excuse . My TV has people constantly trying to manipulate me to buy things .
I can say no .
So can a Muslim or any other flavor of Radical.

The reason you are able to say "no" to your TV, is because you are old enough to do so.

Most religious people had blind faith injected into their brains when they were very, very young, and had not developed critical thinking skills strong enough to oppose those ideas.

That was followed by at least daily reinforcement such that by the time they reached a level of intellectual maturity, the ideas were pretty much hard wired. That's why it's "real" to billions.

For most people, it's really hard to shake off that indoctrination. It's designed to be that way, to control apostasy.
 
I don't have particularly strong views on islam, so I can't really add anything beyond the "extremists in every religion" argument...

But, somebody shared this on Facebook the other day and I thought it was relevant to some of the discussions in this thread, apologies if it's been posted already..



Interesting video which makes some good points.

However, from personal experience, I have observed that attitudes towards women in Indonesia are not similar to the way women are treated in Western countries, despite what the interviewee said. That's not to say it's like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, but it's no bed of roses.
 
Back on the general topic of "Islam", here is a quotation from the Quran directed at the following class of peoples:-

Those who are neither believers nor accept the laws of Allah and His Messenger (Sharia law). If this describes you, then you should read this. There is not much ambiguity here.

You have three sets of options
  1. Be killed by the believers
  2. Become a believer and also accept Sharia Law
  3. Pay a tax ("jizyah") and make those payments willingly and be humbled by the experience
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

Quran 9:29
 
Back on the general topic of "Islam", here is a quotation from the Quran directed at the following class of peoples:-

Those who are neither believers nor accept the laws of Allah and His Messenger (Sharia law). If this describes you, then you should read this. There is not much ambiguity here.

You have three sets of options
  1. Be killed by the believers
  2. Become a believer and also accept Sharia Law
  3. Pay a tax ("jizyah") and make those payments willingly and be humbled by the experience


Quran 9:29
Option 4: tell the 'believers' claiming these to get their Sharia laws somewhere else, if they resist - apply force.

But, in other hand - there's no need for everyone calling him/herself a Muslim to follow everything written in Quran.
 
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...radical-muslims-clash-in-germany_1481719.html

In case you didn't realize already, Salafists are a cancer, just like all the other similar ideologies. Keeping them around is almost like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-foiled-amid-growing-fears-of-beheadings.html

...And UK are also playing with their citizens' lives. I'd have thought the ridiculous murder of the off-duty soldier was enough, but no. A little risk of someone being beheaded by foreigners in your hometown streets makes life more exciting, huh? :rolleyes:
 
But, in other hand - there's no need for everyone calling him/herself a Muslim to follow everything written in Quran.

Nobody can follow "everything written in the Quran", because it is contradictory, ambiguous and open to interpretation. Therefore, the reader can pick and choose and still be "right". At least in the eyes of the reader.

This very ambiguity is what has led to the deaths of millions of Muslims at the hands of other Muslims. "The Perfect Quran" has its own website, Facebook and Twitter accounts. Strange definition of "perfection".
 
If a white Western guy named Matt founded a religion in 2014 that justifies the killing and enslaving of non-followers, along with pedophilia, domestic violence, cutting off petty thieves' hands and several other immoral acts, and went to offensive warfare several times, would he and his ideology be condemned?
 
If a white Western guy named Matt founded a religion in 2014 that justifies the killing and enslaving of non-followers, along with pedophilia, domestic violence, cutting off petty thieves' hands and several other immoral acts, and went to offensive warfare several times, would he and his ideology be condemned?
Do you honestly think that its that simple a comparison?
 
I'm a friend of Faisal's on facebook, have been since he first came over. Great guy that speaks a lot of sense.

Where did I say Islam only covers these things?
And there we have the reason why your comparison is not that simple.

This focus of one element or area is both naive, overly simplistic and quite frankly typical of far right-wing flame-bait.
 
And there we have the reason why your comparison is not that simple.

This focus of one element or area is both naive, overly simplistic and quite frankly typical of far right-wing flame-bait.
I could go further with the non-believer tax, making half the population cover themselves up completely as a sign of submission to their male guardians and the obvious homophobia, right?

If this kind of an ideology was founded this year, I would be quick to condemn it due to it being completely incompatible with how the Western justice system works. I would certainly be most distressed if I was able to see into the future and find out it has gained over 1.6 billion followers, most if not all through indoctrination, and grown into a powerful political force.
 
I could go further with the non-believer tax, making half the population cover themselves up completely as a sign of submission to their male guardians and the obvious homophobia, right?
You've never read the Koran or spoken to many Muslims have you?


If this kind of an ideology was founded this year, I would be quick to condemn it due to it being completely incompatible with how the Western justice system works. I would certainly be most distressed if I was able to see into the future and find out it has gained over 1.6 billion followers, most if not all through indoctrination, and grown into a powerful political force.
Your right. But lets be sure to ban Judaism and Christianity as well.
 
You've never read the Koran or spoken to many Muslims have you?
The latter has already been answered. The former, yes. It's not like I'm making up stuff from my head here. For the record, it has been told many times that if there ever is an inconsistency in the Quran, a newer verse always erases the older one. Violent verses just happen to be newer than the nicer ones.

Your right. But lets be sure to ban Judaism and Christianity as well.
So there's still no difference, right? Funny, I keep wondering why Israel, the land of the Jews, turned out so much better than any Muslim country in the entire world... Surely it can't have anything to do with how much the predominant religion limits people's capabilities.
 
If a white Western guy named Matt founded a religion in 2014 that justifies the killing and enslaving of non-followers, along with pedophilia, domestic violence, cutting off petty thieves' hands and several other immoral acts, and went to offensive warfare several times, would he and his ideology be condemned?

Let's see what the Bible says:

Stealing: To be sold as a slave.
Sex without intent to produce offspring: Death.
Sex between two males: Death.
Rape: Death.
Not crying for help while being raped: Death.
Woman not being a virgin on the night of her wedding: Death.
Following another religion: Death.
Witchcraft: Death.
Cursing a parent: Death.
Taking the Lord's name in vain: Death.
Working on the Sabbath: Death.
Beating up slaves: Nope, that's perfectly fine.

What exactly is the offensive warfare you're talking about? What great ismalistic wars have been faught in the past hundred-or-so years? How are they different from any other wars? The Christian world (mainly Europe and USA) is just responsible for about a hundred million deaths in the wars it has started in the past century. That's a million deaths per year on average.

And then we have all the genocides caused by nationalists - should we hold every person who loves his / her country accountable for that?
 
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