Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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- RC45
- RC45
You have no idea about my background. I have studied both the kooran and islam - how do you think I arrived at my opinion?
I have seen first hand this cult in action. It oppresses women and gays and non-believers in a way far more brutal than any other group in history.
KKK and IRA never went global - so your point is well pointless. They where also not religions with billions of followers. Try again.
Hmmm. You mean like the Fort Hood massacre? Or do you mean the wack job liberals that shot up the movie theatre or a couple schools?
The muslim guy yelled ally ookbar while he killed people - I don't believe any others did.
You sound like a muslim. Begging for acceptance. What is your view on gays?
I am guessing your ISIS muslim buddies and all the violence promoting imams didn't get that memo.
Whats your view on gays?
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Oh yes @RC45 I can see your study quite well.
1) You spelt Quraan wrong completely
2) Your facts on oppression are wrong and quite twisted by culture rather than religion.
3) You are right, they did not go global. So how many deaths makes it terrorism? 1000? 10,000? A million? Under that same point then, is ISIS a religion? Because if so I am quite taken aback, I thought it was spelt Islam.
4) ally ookbar? Interesting how someone who studied Islam could get that one wrong.
5) I don't beg to any person.
6) They obviously did not. Or they did and chose to ignore. And they are not my buddies.
7) Gays? To each their own. I may not support them, but I would never harm them. But there is a seperate thread on that if you would like to discuss that at length.
8) You asked me my views on gays twice.
1) You spelt Quraan wrong completely
2) Your facts on oppression are wrong and quite twisted by culture rather than religion.
3) You are right, they did not go global. So how many deaths makes it terrorism? 1000? 10,000? A million? Under that same point then, is ISIS a religion? Because if so I am quite taken aback, I thought it was spelt Islam.
4) ally ookbar? Interesting how someone who studied Islam could get that one wrong.
5) I don't beg to any person.
6) They obviously did not. Or they did and chose to ignore. And they are not my buddies.
7) Gays? To each their own. I may not support them, but I would never harm them. But there is a seperate thread on that if you would like to discuss that at length.
8) You asked me my views on gays twice.
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- Pyano1132
The non-militants are good people, but the guys with the guns are some kookoo kultists
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- Yellohead
- Clydeyellow
Yeah, bud. Totally no problem, here.
That enough is sufficient for me to ignore what you said, what you may say in response to this post, and what you may say in the future regarding the topic unless you show a significant change in attitude. Because to ignore the persecutions Jews faced and still have to face from Christians shows either bad faith or ignorance of the highest degree, and either way, I have no reason to be interested in what you're saying.
Or funding fascist terrorists here in Italy to bomb train stations and frame the Communists. Or (in rough chronological order) funding and supporting the Iranian coup against Mossadeq (setting in motion the chain of events that would lead to the Islamic Revolution of 1979), the 1967 Greek Coup, the (9/11) 1973 Chilean coup against Allende, the Vietnam War, Operation Menu, the support of Afghani mujahideen and the contras in Nicaragua, Operation Praying Mantis...
But contrarely to you, @RC45, I have two eyes and a brain, so I can see that not all Americans are devils, and as a matter of fact, most either don't know about or don't endorse the actions sanctioned or carried out by US governments in order to "protect American interests".
I guess he goes by Conservapedia's definition of the term. Hell, by the way he speaks (Writes... Whatever) he is probably the owner of one of the few IP adresses that haven't been banned yet by that crazy-*** admin of theirs.
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- 1,629
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- RC45
- RC45
My purposeful misspelling of the mudslime kooran book of hatred seemed to have slipped by your high IQ. Sorry about that.
I only moved to the US many decades ago in my late 20's. I have had enough exposure and study of the moohamedans to understand what real oppression of women, gays and minorities really means.
All this pontification and posturing you pseudo-intellectuals get up to means nothing int he grand scheme of life and the world.
I remember when so called educated peoples like you where all up on the latest reason why Pol Pot wasn't that bad of a person if only your understood his goal's etc.
We (the free world) do not need to understand or appreciate the violent peoples that stand behind the kooran to know that they are problem and need to be dealt with harshly.
I asked your opinion on gays twice because you seem to be quite the mudslime sympathizer there. You do know that they kill gays right? You a mooslim? What's your opinion on beheading gays?
What's your opinion on women driving, getting education, not having to cover their entire body?
What's your opinion on gays?
Do you?
Do you know the political affiliation of the guy that shot Gabby Gifford's?
DO you know the political affiliation of the Newtown shooter?
Do you know the political affiliation of the move theater shooter?
I know full well what a liberal is.
You suppose all that you posted justifies all the alley ackbar mooslin kooran krazy behaviour that is being perpetrated the world over today?
I mean its the Christians and Jews and Hindus that are attacking cartoon magazine offices right?
Having family that survived the NAZI concentration camps I have no need for you to try explain oppression to me, ever.
au contraire mon ami, I understand very well why we cannot let the ally ackbars of the world continue the way they are.
******
Folks, you need to really get a clue on what is happening around you in the world today - and again, all your pontificating and pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo means nothing to the thousands that have been beheaded in the last 6 months in the name of the religion of peace.
Perhaps you need to view one of those beheadings to understand that in the time it takes while you sit and debate and posture on trying to understand these animals.. they will have no problem killing you.
This is whom and what they are.
Why do you not understand this?
Are you all collectively too spoiled and pampered in your cushy western free life?
By the time you folks wake up and understand who you are up against it will be too late.
Now go back to your Playstations and other childish endeavours while all around the world more people get hacked to death by these peaceful gentle mooslims you so obviously want to understand and support.
How so? How do we know he doesn't have ISIS buddies? He seems to have a hard time condemning their actions. In fact it seems an awful lot of posters here go out of their way to try paint islam in only a positive light and go to great lengths to try justify Islamic violence by way of comparative provision of non-Islamic violent actions.
Almost every response to my posts has been people showing how violent other groups have been on occasion as a justification for ignoring the mooslim violence of today.
There is none so blind as the lamb on its way to slaughter.
And the west is the lamb, on the way to islams altar of slaughter and sacrifice. And everyone of you mudslime sympathizers are enabling these events.
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- 3,475
- Vilnius
So let's fight blind hatred with blind hatred? Judging all the members of a religion by the acts of what's effectively a minority? Overgeneralization much? You need to calm your tits as the education and IQ you're implying to posess is not reflected by the language, or rather the lack of it, that you are using.
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- RC45
- RC45
Blind hatred? No - how about eyes wide open and understanding who and what we as the free west are up against.
What is your proposition then? Invite the ISIS folks over for dinner while you discuss oppression of women, beheading of gays and other trivial matters of the day?
How do you propose to live in peace with a group that has as its end goal your death and destruction?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-...ewspaper-that-published-charlie-hebdo/6011338
- 1,629
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- RC45
- RC45
I understand this is a subject that is above your juvenile levels.
These folks play for keeps.
This is how they respond to free expression.
You should see how they respond to gays and women folk.
Same question for you kid:
How do you propose to live in peace with a group that has as its end goal your death and destruction?
Downhill Dino
Premium
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- DownhillDinosaur
It really devalues an argument when resorting to personal attacks.
- 1,629
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- RC45
- RC45
I bet that's what the French cop layer on the ground staring at those 7.62mm rounds incoming thought "If only I had tried to be a better debater on the Interwebs maybe they would not want to kill me".
The events of the day don't care about Interwebs etiquette, and quite frankly neither should we.
Anyway, time to return to the real world for a couple months. I have cars, bikes, guns, books, TV shows, news, guitars and family that I enjoy spending time with.
- 2,745
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- Yellohead
- Clydeyellow
I know I said I was not going to further engage in conversation with you, but you're so objectively wrong that I won't be able to keep my promise. You keep repeating the same question over and over again like one of those tele-evangelists you Americans seem to be so fond of.
I am not a supporter of ISIL. Hell, give me a rifle and get me to Iraq and I'll be giving a hand to the PKK. Even better, let's start using tactical nukes against their convoys and training camps - let's see who's more afraid, us of them or them of us.
At the same time, however, I'm not so blind to think that it is impossible to live with Muslims; far from it, some of the most likeable characters I've ever met are practicant muslims, most of which try to implement sharia in their daily life as much as they can - and they've shown far more respect towards me than you did. They've also shown far more acceptance of my sexuality than many Christians, since you keep asking that (although I have to admit I am not gay, but rather bisexual - does that make a difference to you?).
Funny that you should mention him. That cop? His name was Ahmed Merabet, and he was an observant Muslim.
Please, crawl back into the hole you came from and stop making an utter fool of yourself.
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- MRT_Cinnamon
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- Johnnypenso
Your selective quoting certainly paints a different picture of those devoted Christian Nazis. From the same article:
Yeah, bud. Totally no problem, here.
There was some diversity of personal views among the Nazi leadership as to the future of religion in Germany. Anti-Church radicals included Hitler's Personal Secretary Martin Bormann and Minister for Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, the neo-pagan official Nazi Philosopher Alfred Rosenberg and security chief Heinrich Himmler. Some Nazis, such asHans Kerrl, who served as Hitler's Minister for Church Affairs, believed Christianity could be Nazified into "Positive Christianity", by renouncing its Jewish origins, the Old Testament and Apostle's Creed, and holding Hitler as a new "Messiah". Hitler himself believed that in the long run, National Socialism and religion would not be able to co-exist, but was prepared temporarily to restrain some of his more radical instincts out of political considerations.
Nazism wanted to transform the subjective consciousness of the German people—their attitudes, values and mentalities—into a single-minded, obedient "national community". The Nazis believed they would therefore have to replace class, religious and regional allegiances.[5] Under the Gleichschaltung process, Hitler attempted to create a unified Protestant Reich Church from Germany's 28 existing Protestant churches. The plan failed, and was resisted by the Confessing Church. Persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany followed the Nazi takeover. Hitler moved quickly to eliminate political catholicism. Amid harassment of the Church, the Reich concordat treaty with the Vatican was signed in 1933, and promised to respect Church autonomy. Hitler routinely disregarded the Concordat, closing all Catholic institutions whose functions were not strictly religious. Clergy, nuns, and lay leaders were targeted, with thousands of arrests over the ensuing years. The Church accused the regime of "fundamental hostility to Christ and his Church". Smaller religious minorities such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and Bahá'í Faith were banned in Germany, while the eradication of Judaism by the genocide of its adherents was attempted. The Salvation Army, Christian Saints and Seventh Day Adventist Church all disappeared from Germany, while Astrologers, Healers and Fortune tellers were banned. The small pagan "German Faith Movement", which worshipped the sun and seasons, supported the Nazis.[6] Many historians believed that Hitler and the Nazis intended to eradicate Christianity in Germany after winning victory in the war.[7][8]
Source
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You have been warned in the past regarding the level of your discourse. But if you refuse to debate in a civil manner, then goodbye.
You've been given much more leash than we've given a lot of people.
Quite.
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Nobody here even remotely suggests that ISIS is a reasonable group, or can be reasoned with.
But to continue making blanket insinuations about entire ethnic/religious groups, and to belittle anybody who dares to debate with your obviously superior intellect does not make a constructive argument.
Take a month off. It's a bit shorter than your own estimate of your vacation, but one hopes you'll be more civil in the future.
And that goes for everyone on both sides of the debate. Thank you.
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Actually, I wasn't at all intending to paint the Nazis (or at least, the Gotha of the NSDAP) as devoted Christians - hell, only a fool would think that Hitler believed in any other Messiah but himself.
But like it or not, Christianity was by far the dominant religion during the Shoah. And the majority of the German Christians either didn't care about or supported the actions of the Nazist regime against the jew population of Europe - not unlike the muslims who condone or support the actions of fundamentalists. Although it is far from me to say that all Christians stood silently as the Nazis slaughtered 12 million people (members of the clergy and devout Christians often put their very own lives on the line to save small numbers of Jews - again, not unlike Ahmed Merabet or Lassana Bathily, the Muslim employee who saved fifteen people by hiding them in the freezer room of the kosher supermarket that was stormed in Paris).
Also, today's European nationalist parties which are trying so hard to use Christianity as an identitary element are often also anti-Semitic, and there's a long history of persecutions of Jews by Christian monarchs far before the advent of Nazism (as a matter of fact, some historians believe the Renaissance was made possible by the wealth brough to the many kingdoms that were once Italy fled Spain after the Alhambra Decree, which also brought many jews to Eastern Europe, especially in Prague and Sarajevo - oh, and the funniest part is that the decree was only revoked in 1968!).
Taking that into account, I still believe it is quite ignorant to say there is "no problem" with Jews and Christians living together, although you've been right calling me out on that.
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All that can be said is that it is possible for Jews and Christians to live together with little to no friction. Just as it is possible for Jews and Muslims or Muslims and Christians to live together with little to no friction.
But that requires acceptance and understanding from both sides. The current situation in the Middle East, with its vast social inequity, the lack of respect for human rights in many countries, and outdated social and political systems held in place by the ruling elite does not tend to create the kind of atmosphere needed for this.
One could even argue that it's poverty and inequity themselves that create terrorism. Aside from the mentally unstable who get conned into ISIS via the internet and recruitment drives, most recruits are from poor and oppressed communities who feel powerless against a foe who is richer, more powerful and seemingly unstoppable.
This is not to say that Islam's militant slant does not play a role in this, but if Christians and Jews can divorce themselves from the practice of polygamy, stoning adulterers and launching holy wars, then there is hope that Islam can, too.
As it is, with the strong resistance to allowing homosexual marriage in the US, the still remaining taboos against sodomy and public nudity, as well as the inherent misogyny of Judaism, the Catholic Church and various Christian sects, other religions still have a way to go themselves before they fully catch up with the modern world.
But that requires acceptance and understanding from both sides. The current situation in the Middle East, with its vast social inequity, the lack of respect for human rights in many countries, and outdated social and political systems held in place by the ruling elite does not tend to create the kind of atmosphere needed for this.
One could even argue that it's poverty and inequity themselves that create terrorism. Aside from the mentally unstable who get conned into ISIS via the internet and recruitment drives, most recruits are from poor and oppressed communities who feel powerless against a foe who is richer, more powerful and seemingly unstoppable.
This is not to say that Islam's militant slant does not play a role in this, but if Christians and Jews can divorce themselves from the practice of polygamy, stoning adulterers and launching holy wars, then there is hope that Islam can, too.
As it is, with the strong resistance to allowing homosexual marriage in the US, the still remaining taboos against sodomy and public nudity, as well as the inherent misogyny of Judaism, the Catholic Church and various Christian sects, other religions still have a way to go themselves before they fully catch up with the modern world.
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- Johnnypenso
I don't believe that is a fair assessment. By the time Hitler's true intentions were clear, he had total and complete control of everything German. If you were a German of any kind, Christian or otherwise, and spoke out, they would just kill you or throw you into a camp, likely never to be seen again. This happened to people by the millions. That's a far cry from a Western Muslim speaking out in this case, or even a Muslim cleric in a predominantly Muslim country, safe in the knowledge that he's not likely to be killed for speaking out against terrorism. Heck you can can speak out in favour of terrorism and not fear for your life as Mr. Choudary and others do regularly.
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Well that was, quite honestly, terrifying.
- 2,745
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- Clydeyellow
Well, his policy of a Germany "for the Herrenvolk only" was made very clear in the Mein Kampf (together with the design for world conquest that was implicit in the superior nature of the aforementioned Herrenvolk, like a manifest destiny of the German nation) - and yet the NSDAP raked a sweeping 37% of the votes in the 1932 federal elections. The methods of implementation of this design were left to the imagination of the reader, but of course, the idea of sending all the jews to Madagascar or to Poland must've sounded outlandish and quite unbelievable to an educated reader - and in 1932, the Germans where perhaps the best-educated people in the world. But perhaps a more fitting example would be the far more proactively anti-semitic (and also, far more Catholic) France, where people gladly collaborated with the Germans in exchange for petty sums of money or social gains.
Of course, most Germans didn't knowingly collaborate in the Shoah, and most Germans were horrified to see what the Nazist regime had done when the veil was lifted on their atrocities (to the point that the horrors of WWII but, most of all, of the Shoah changed the entire German national identity) - but how many turned their head away not caring about the jews being exterminated en masse, and perhaps kept working in the factories that produced the Zyklon B that was used to gas a million or so people? And how many were actually happy to see someone do something about the "Jewish problem"? The veil was there, but it was thin. Again, an educated person could've probably guessed with no difficulty that the "transfers" of Jews to the East weren't transfers at all - but he probably kept it to him/herself for social convenience, fear of being repressed or, perhaps, some satisfaction at the elimination of an old enemy.
The whole Holocaust shindig is enough for me to say that sometimes, "Christians living with Jews = Problem". Because at the end of the day, the Volkish nationalists that introduced the ideals that would eventually become the ideological base of Nazism were simply trying to rationalize anti-semitism, which until then was mostly a religious, rather than ethnic, hatred.
Of course there are more fitting historical examples of christians failing to coexist peacefully with jews through the history of Europe, and committing acts of violence towards jewish minorities that were motivated by religion rather than by nationalism and long-mutated religious ideology, but I tried to reference a well-known event rather than one of the many injustices the jewish people had to endure before the Shoah put an end to their diaspora.
(Also, I'd argue that a Muslim cleric in a predominantly Muslim country is like an anti-mafia priest in Sicily - he may not be going against the establishment, but I don't think anybody would sell him life insurance, if you know what I mean)
Scaff
Moderator
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Someone got themselves a month off I see - missed that while sleeping.
Now a guest on Fox yesterday managed to illustrate exactly why people end up believing nonsense such as that RC45 spouted...
"An American terrorism commentator speaking on Fox News has been forced to apologise for describing Birmingham as a "Muslim-only city" where non-Muslims "don't go in".
Steven Emerson told the channel that in London "Muslim religious police" beat "anyone who doesn't dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire"."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30773297
....now I spent the day in Birmingham on Saturday at Autosport International (as did tens of thousands of others over the four days) and the "Muslim religious police" were three idiots who were arrested, tried and jailed after they attempted it once!
Now while he has since apologized that it was said at all and would by many have been taken at face value and as accurate is utterly disturbing.
Now a guest on Fox yesterday managed to illustrate exactly why people end up believing nonsense such as that RC45 spouted...
"An American terrorism commentator speaking on Fox News has been forced to apologise for describing Birmingham as a "Muslim-only city" where non-Muslims "don't go in".
Steven Emerson told the channel that in London "Muslim religious police" beat "anyone who doesn't dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire"."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30773297
....now I spent the day in Birmingham on Saturday at Autosport International (as did tens of thousands of others over the four days) and the "Muslim religious police" were three idiots who were arrested, tried and jailed after they attempted it once!
Now while he has since apologized that it was said at all and would by many have been taken at face value and as accurate is utterly disturbing.
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
@RC45 - This is for when you get back and it will remain a double post as I want to ensure you see it.
Continue in the insulting and abusive manner when you return and you will be permanently banned - you will not be warned again.
As for not being religious based, they were both Christian terror groups, you know as in the largest religion on the planet with billions of followers!
Your entire tone is that of the current Christian far right, down to the derogatory terms you have peppered your posts with, as such you represent the Christian minority that is as troubling as the Muslim minority to many. As such your language has no place here at GTP and should you not be able to discuss this topic while showing respect to members of all faiths then your membership will be removed.
I would also suggest in future that if you post huge lists of 'facts' in future that you actually check that they are facts, as the claim that other religions have 'no problem' with each other is, to be blunt, utter bollocks.
Continue in the insulting and abusive manner when you return and you will be permanently banned - you will not be warned again.
The KKK had strong links to Christian White Supremacist groups the world over, as such they were part of a global terror organisation. The IRA carried out attacks across Europe, trained in North Africa and South America and were funded from just about every country the Irish ever emigrated too, as such they were most certainly global.
As for not being religious based, they were both Christian terror groups, you know as in the largest religion on the planet with billions of followers!
Your entire tone is that of the current Christian far right, down to the derogatory terms you have peppered your posts with, as such you represent the Christian minority that is as troubling as the Muslim minority to many. As such your language has no place here at GTP and should you not be able to discuss this topic while showing respect to members of all faiths then your membership will be removed.
I would also suggest in future that if you post huge lists of 'facts' in future that you actually check that they are facts, as the claim that other religions have 'no problem' with each other is, to be blunt, utter bollocks.
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I think they have mistaken "liberal" for "libel".
- 2,726
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- ECGadget
- Eh???
A few things I do want to clear up with everyone here is that whilst Islam may not agree with every notion of the modern world, it does not have a problem with this modern world. I know for a fact that there are some people out there who would say that the usage of things like the internet go against Islam, but yet one thing that Islam used to strive towards was aquiring more knowledge. The internet is one such place.
I will tell you what has no place in this world, and that is prejudice and racism in any way shape or form. I could have easily started hitting out against Christians and Jews the way I was targetted last night, but that would have made me
1) a bad human being
2) going against what I have been taught
3) be entirely incorrect, and my misinformation could have been disasterous
I understand completely that there are lots of people on Earth who think that Muslims are bad people. Similarly I know the same applies for every religion and race. And it is also true that Muslims do not help themselves at times. But at the end of the day all terrorists try to do is split up communities. Whether it be ISIS now, or IRA 30 years ago, or whatever. What has made ISIS stand out from the others is two things
1) They make a bigger show of force
2) They say they do things in the name of Islam
If it wasn't for these facts, there would be barely anything about them on the news. Now I am not saying that people should not be protesting or anything, because they should. But the world is a very biased place wherever you go. Go to an IS area and you will be fed IS bull. Go to America (no disrespect) and there is a chance to be fed Muslim hate bull. Not just about religion, people twist facts and figures about everything. Britain is a country where many F1 fans dislike Schumacher because he beat Hill and they feel he cheated. In Germany it is the opposite. Etc etc. But until we seperate facts from uneducated opinions, we are going to be stuck in this circle.
I had a really good debate over the past couple of days with @Omnis actually about motivations behind the attacks, and we have both agreed to a conclusion that religion can be a motivation for attack, whether it is justified or not. This is not because of religion ordering it. But moreso because there are incidents that shape religion that may be associated to violence. I will not deny that Islam has had these incidents as well. There have been wars, both offensive and defensive. But what both terrorists and the uneducated like ourselves tend to miss out is all the reasoning behind it, the laws, the rules and regulations. In Islam everyone knows it as Jihad. Jihad means to struggle in the name of religion. Did you know that fasting can be Jihad. To protect someone can be Jihad? As a matter of fact, for a Muslim that whole incident last night was also Jihad. A sword wasn't lifted. In fact I do not think that I said a bad word, and if I did I do apologise for letting my anger control me, which was wrong of me. But the point is is that a lot of us miss this out.
@Johnnypenso, a bit for you my friend about how people can speak out in support of terrorism. These guys unfortunately know the law too well. They know that either the law will protect them OR they can pay to have the law turn a blind eye in some places. This is all too true and happens in Muslim countries as well. I know that if it were you or I making the laws, any support of terrorism should be a jailable offence, and please correct me if you have a differing opinion on that. But again this actually goes back to the Islamic law of Hirabah. Would you feel safe walking down a street and seeing someone like Mr Choudary walking the other way? Because I for sure would not. But then that means he is terrorising us people because of what he preaches. But he knows that he can get away with it in the UK and most western countries, and a lot of middle eastern and eastern countries too.
I believe it was @Scaff that mentioned about Islam in the 6th Century being better than it is today, because it accepted other religions, everyone generally lived in peace and harmony and all worked together in the pursuit of knowledge and science. That is truly was Islam is and I don't know about you guys but I would like to have seen Islam like that and I want to see Islam like that again. I may not be a religious person, or a qualified scholar in any religion but I will happily spend the rest of my life trying to remind Muslims of the smaller but no less significant aspects of Islam. And as an end to this post (I have a bad headache xD) I want to just share some of those smaller aspects with you all to really highlight the importance of peace and tolerance and respect:
- A smile is a charity
- If a beggar comes to your door, never turn them away empty handed
- To save a life is like saving all of mankind
- Care for the eldery
- Do not reveals the flaws of another for all the world to see
- The strong man is that one who is strong at wrestling, but the one who can control himself in times of anger
- Beware of jealousy
- Do not cheat a man(or woman) of his(her) wealth
I could go on for a very long time about this, but I think you guys understand. I do not wish to force any religion upon anyone. But I do wish for people to understand the true meaning of religion and Islam is the one I know best. Honestly I would like a thread made where we can compare the teachings of the abrahamic religions because I think that would be a fantastic thing. I am sure that there are some things about other religions that I am in error about and I really do want to learn about them!
edited just for a spelling error or two.
I will tell you what has no place in this world, and that is prejudice and racism in any way shape or form. I could have easily started hitting out against Christians and Jews the way I was targetted last night, but that would have made me
1) a bad human being
2) going against what I have been taught
3) be entirely incorrect, and my misinformation could have been disasterous
I understand completely that there are lots of people on Earth who think that Muslims are bad people. Similarly I know the same applies for every religion and race. And it is also true that Muslims do not help themselves at times. But at the end of the day all terrorists try to do is split up communities. Whether it be ISIS now, or IRA 30 years ago, or whatever. What has made ISIS stand out from the others is two things
1) They make a bigger show of force
2) They say they do things in the name of Islam
If it wasn't for these facts, there would be barely anything about them on the news. Now I am not saying that people should not be protesting or anything, because they should. But the world is a very biased place wherever you go. Go to an IS area and you will be fed IS bull. Go to America (no disrespect) and there is a chance to be fed Muslim hate bull. Not just about religion, people twist facts and figures about everything. Britain is a country where many F1 fans dislike Schumacher because he beat Hill and they feel he cheated. In Germany it is the opposite. Etc etc. But until we seperate facts from uneducated opinions, we are going to be stuck in this circle.
I had a really good debate over the past couple of days with @Omnis actually about motivations behind the attacks, and we have both agreed to a conclusion that religion can be a motivation for attack, whether it is justified or not. This is not because of religion ordering it. But moreso because there are incidents that shape religion that may be associated to violence. I will not deny that Islam has had these incidents as well. There have been wars, both offensive and defensive. But what both terrorists and the uneducated like ourselves tend to miss out is all the reasoning behind it, the laws, the rules and regulations. In Islam everyone knows it as Jihad. Jihad means to struggle in the name of religion. Did you know that fasting can be Jihad. To protect someone can be Jihad? As a matter of fact, for a Muslim that whole incident last night was also Jihad. A sword wasn't lifted. In fact I do not think that I said a bad word, and if I did I do apologise for letting my anger control me, which was wrong of me. But the point is is that a lot of us miss this out.
@Johnnypenso, a bit for you my friend about how people can speak out in support of terrorism. These guys unfortunately know the law too well. They know that either the law will protect them OR they can pay to have the law turn a blind eye in some places. This is all too true and happens in Muslim countries as well. I know that if it were you or I making the laws, any support of terrorism should be a jailable offence, and please correct me if you have a differing opinion on that. But again this actually goes back to the Islamic law of Hirabah. Would you feel safe walking down a street and seeing someone like Mr Choudary walking the other way? Because I for sure would not. But then that means he is terrorising us people because of what he preaches. But he knows that he can get away with it in the UK and most western countries, and a lot of middle eastern and eastern countries too.
I believe it was @Scaff that mentioned about Islam in the 6th Century being better than it is today, because it accepted other religions, everyone generally lived in peace and harmony and all worked together in the pursuit of knowledge and science. That is truly was Islam is and I don't know about you guys but I would like to have seen Islam like that and I want to see Islam like that again. I may not be a religious person, or a qualified scholar in any religion but I will happily spend the rest of my life trying to remind Muslims of the smaller but no less significant aspects of Islam. And as an end to this post (I have a bad headache xD) I want to just share some of those smaller aspects with you all to really highlight the importance of peace and tolerance and respect:
- A smile is a charity
- If a beggar comes to your door, never turn them away empty handed
- To save a life is like saving all of mankind
- Care for the eldery
- Do not reveals the flaws of another for all the world to see
- The strong man is that one who is strong at wrestling, but the one who can control himself in times of anger
- Beware of jealousy
- Do not cheat a man(or woman) of his(her) wealth
I could go on for a very long time about this, but I think you guys understand. I do not wish to force any religion upon anyone. But I do wish for people to understand the true meaning of religion and Islam is the one I know best. Honestly I would like a thread made where we can compare the teachings of the abrahamic religions because I think that would be a fantastic thing. I am sure that there are some things about other religions that I am in error about and I really do want to learn about them!
edited just for a spelling error or two.
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