It's not fun anymore

  • Thread starter Nerra
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Great thread Nerra, i feel exactly the same way.

Also , Mirial , i'm happy to know that a really fast driver like you has same problems as me with this demo.(times?)

I won't even comment the standard 370z with n3 tyres. (Wet racing)

The tuned one,aside of all the other problems that you mentioned already,has one more thing that pisses me off: It's slow! So slow that in most cases you have to enter a corner unnaturally slower to get the best exit and don't lose the ''momentum'' of the car.

My time is a disgusting 36.8xx.
 
I think polyphony have used wet physics but without including the rain effect. T3 on this demo is impossible to execute correctly, it feels hooked up braking but as you lift off mid turn the car just understeers forwards! at a really low speed!

also...(but this bit is fun), as you hit about 110mph on the outer circuit, why the hell is the car still sliding out??

Indianapolis on the other hand is an awesome circuit but i just wish they had kept the physics as it was on GT5P specIII. It just felt more realistic.
 
I don't post here much but this is a good thread and I wanna reply.

The reason why some of you guys think it's not realistic or fun is not because of the physics engine. I think they simulate how a car behaves almost perfectly. The reason for this unrealism is because we do not feel the sense of speed while playing. If you watch the replay, you can see how real the car looks, but when you're actually driving, it feels like you're going half the speed. Next time you play, look at the speed you take a corner and how hard you take it (G-meter.) Picture in your head what would happen if you touched the throttle a little bit going all out on a 60mph turn.

One thing that i think needs fixing is how the tires get traction back. To me it feels like once the tires keep spinning you can let off the throttle and they will continue spinning for another second, where in real life it instantly gains traction back.
 
tony1311
Great thread Nerra, i feel exactly the same way.

Also , Mirial , i'm happy to know that a really fast driver like you has same problems as me with this demo.(times?)

I won't even comment the standard 370z with n3 tyres. (Wet racing)

The tuned one,aside of all the other problems that you mentioned already,has one more thing that pisses me off: It's slow! So slow that in most cases you have to enter a corner unnaturally slower to get the best exit and don't lose the ''momentum'' of the car.

My time is a disgusting 36.8xx.
Click to expand...

see if this was GTP i would agree with you GT5 TT N3 feel pretty good i could come out of coners pretty good i like the stock z alot
 
are you people aware that in the demo the driving is set to "professional" and not the medium one(dont remember the name of it) thats the standar setting when you get a GT game?

I started playing the GT5P on the "medium" setting and could hold RWD-cars with 0 TCS at high speeds in cornes without spinning out, but as soon as I set it to "professional" I spendt the next 15 minutes with my DFGT-wheel just trying to get trough one corner without spinning out.

The differce is HUGE. I think thats why some(many?) people complain about spinning out in the demo all the time.
 
Hmm, I don't see the huge difference some here are saying they have. It makes me start to wonder if said people were driving with either aids on or in standard physics in Prologue, because after playing Prologue over a year (almost 2 now), I can say hand on heart the physics difference is not that great. Its an improvement, but its not a huge unrealistic jump.

Now if you've jumped from either GT4, a different game series or Prologue with aids/standard physics, I can see where you might find it too difficult - but its really just practice and familiarity. I have had little trouble handling the cars in this demo and I'm not even using a wheel, at least I've not found it so horribly different to Prologue that I can't control it in spins or whatever.

I used to drive the tail happy cars a lot in Prologue with no aids, manual and in pro physics and it really taught me smooth driving and quick reactions. I also wonder if this is why I find it easy to move to this demo, and if thats the case then its clearly matter of practice at least in my opinion. I don't think of myself as a particularly skilled player at least anyway.

As for the fun and enjoyment, I love it! Coming out of turn 11, throttle down, car twitching over the bumps, having to quickly counter steer and modulate the throttle, and the high speed, its a massive thrill. I actually feel like I'm forcing the car, feeling the physics, maybe not in Force Feedback, but in the visual and audio sensations. Brake late as possible, down to 3rd, check the speed for 50/60mph, hit the inside curb as close as possible, power the throttle and hold the turn, correcting for oversteer and feeling the weight transfers. Its all good man. Add in checking your mirrors for your rivals at the same time and having to quickly upshift soon after and it feels exactly the same thought processes as a racing driver.
I have no real track experience, I can only learn from reading and watching. But this demo (and Prologue too) have been the first games to make me feel like I'm in the mindset of a racing driver. Even if its not entirely accurate, for me they have hit the sweet spot as far as sensations go overall.
 
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StogyBear
I don't post here much but this is a good thread and I wanna reply.

The reason why some of you guys think it's not realistic or fun is not because of the physics engine. I think they simulate how a car behaves almost perfectly. The reason for this unrealism is because we do not feel the sense of speed while playing. If you watch the replay, you can see how real the car looks, but when you're actually driving, it feels like you're going half the speed. Next time you play, look at the speed you take a corner and how hard you take it (G-meter.) Picture in your head what would happen if you touched the throttle a little bit going all out on a 60mph turn.

One thing that i think needs fixing is how the tires get traction back. To me it feels like once the tires keep spinning you can let off the throttle and they will continue spinning for another second, where in real life it instantly gains traction back.
Click to expand...


I agree with you on this one.... and the gain of traction after wheel spin is slow... if you watch drifting you see its harsh on street tires and oversteery setups, while in the game, like you said, you can lift off and the wheels will still be spinning.
 
I am having a lot of fun. I love the new physics, despite not being the quickest (1'37.8xx at the moment). I love watching the car, how the weight shifts, how the suspension works. I didn't have as much fun on any racing sim for a long while.

And all these comparisons to real life... come on, try to push in real life as hard as you do in the game, and you'll wreck it too. Analyse for a second what you are doing in real life and what are you supposedly doing in game, the corner angles and the speed you are pushing the car. Push hard enough and it's not difficult to lose a car in real life.
 
StogyBear
I don't post here much but this is a good thread and I wanna reply.

The reason why some of you guys think it's not realistic or fun is not because of the physics engine. I think they simulate how a car behaves almost perfectly. The reason for this unrealism is because we do not feel the sense of speed while playing. If you watch the replay, you can see how real the car looks, but when you're actually driving, it feels like you're going half the speed. Next time you play, look at the speed you take a corner and how hard you take it (G-meter.) Picture in your head what would happen if you touched the throttle a little bit going all out on a 60mph turn.

One thing that i think needs fixing is how the tires get traction back. To me it feels like once the tires keep spinning you can let off the throttle and they will continue spinning for another second, where in real life it instantly gains traction back.
Click to expand...

Yeah, thats a good point. I drove the stock Z around the track with 50-150 kph just to see how the car reacts when you drive it like on a normal road. No understeer, no oversteer, very direct handling without any problems. Too bad the TCS is on for me as a pad user, so i couldnt really test the traction at speeds under 80 kph. But it felt extremely stable and it did everything i wanted it to do.
 
I got bored with the demo like a day after it was out after waiting sooo long for it. It's fun, but even drifting the track in reverse is a lot more fun, but it just doesn't do anything for me anymore. I just wish there was more variety
 
I don't see what the problem is that people are having with the physics, I find it much easier to push hard in the demo than it was in Prologue, with both cars.

The only reason I can think of is that alot of people were using the standard physics in Prologue and can't get their head around the Professional physics in the Time Trial.

But the whole point to the Time Trial is to find a future race driver, so I guess it isn't supposed to be easy.
 
No46_TheDoctor
I don't see what the problem is that people are having with the physics, I find it much easier to push hard in the demo than it was in Prologue, with both cars.

The only reason I can think of is that alot of people were using the standard physics in Prologue and can't get their head around the Professional physics in the Time Trial.

But the whole point to the Time Trial is to find a future race driver, so I guess it isn't supposed to be easy.
Click to expand...

I think thats the problem also. N3 actually feel good in GT5 TT i can really push them unlike in GT5P which N3 felt to slippery
 
StogyBear
I don't post here much but this is a good thread and I wanna reply.

The reason why some of you guys think it's not realistic or fun is not because of the physics engine. I think they simulate how a car behaves almost perfectly. The reason for this unrealism is because we do not feel the sense of speed while playing. If you watch the replay, you can see how real the car looks, but when you're actually driving, it feels like you're going half the speed. Next time you play, look at the speed you take a corner and how hard you take it (G-meter.) Picture in your head what would happen if you touched the throttle a little bit going all out on a 60mph turn.

One thing that i think needs fixing is how the tires get traction back. To me it feels like once the tires keep spinning you can let off the throttle and they will continue spinning for another second, where in real life it instantly gains traction back.
Click to expand...

Good post. I think thats the problem, you have no sense of speed or it feels too slow. I know its probably accurate because when you stick a video camera in a race car it always looks so much slower when you watch it back compared to actually being in the car.

Maybe thats why it doesn't feel fun, because it feels slow. When I play the Grid time trial demo it just feels like you are flying (which is fun).

My times are low 38's by the way, not amazing but I can get round.
 
With the G25 the road feedback is great and with a 5.1 system It's awesome to hear sound cues that tell the user that the rear is at it's limit. I love the physics in this game, but I could see how some might not like it simply cause the tuned z as been setup by PD the setup could work for some and not others. I hope in the full version of GT5 in time attack I hope PD or allows users to create classes that either limits to how much tuning you can do to unlimited classes so the users can go all out. Factory stock cars can be limited to a few tire choices.

The stock is z is a handful when taken to it's limits, I wonder if the real car is like this. I feel like the stock z should of at least sported S1 tires.
 
snoopybg
OMG so much fanboism in one place... A guy who really races on track tells you it's just not right but all you can come up with is standard irrelevant answers. Even if gt5 cars had square wheels you'd still be ok with it, wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

So? I've raced plenty of Japanese sports cars on a track (not a 350 or 370Z though) and after doing plenty of grip tests in GT5 TT demo I find it quite authentic.
I actually find the car sticks quite well (except when you hit the grass) but if you enter corners too fast or try to heavy trail brake while turning in you will understeer quite heavily. Push it through the corners hard, apply too much throttle and you will overcome the little traction you have left. All seems natural to me.

To me people problems with it doesn't come down to how realistic the actual physics are but they don't have the 'feel' for it yet. GT requires you to sense what the car is doing in totally different way to real life. Many games put it in the wheel, when the car starts oversteer or understeering the wheel strength gives out so you know you're pushing too hard and you ease off avoiding the problem. In GT, the wheel doesn't do this as a warning and you must be aware of the cars slip angle at all times along with the tyre sounds to know exactly what it is doing.

Once you have honed your senses in GT it is quite easy and a joy. To be honest I find the 370Z to be more of a understeery car with oversteer only coming if you are on the edge of grip and exceeding the slight slip angle, something that is easily corrected.


Edit, just noticed a similar post to mine has been made :)
 
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Well, on another note, maybe it's not a bad idea to take a brake once in a while.

Sometimes even the best things feel wrong, dated, spoiled, boring - books, music, food, girlfriends and thus it's not a bad idea to enjoy something else altogether.

When the cobwebs have disappeared, then maybe it shines in a new light.

It'll take a few weeks before things go back to normal if when GT5 hits the shelves, so that might be a good point to make a fresh start?
 
Jay
So? I've raced plenty of Japanese sports cars on a track (not a 350 or 370Z though) and after doing plenty of grip tests in GT5 TT demo I find it quite authentic.
I actually find the car sticks quite well (except when you hit the grass) but if you enter corners too fast or try to heavy trail brake while turning in you will understeer quite heavily. Push it through the corners hard, apply too much throttle and you will overcome the little traction you have left. All seems natural to me.

To me people problems with it doesn't come down to how realistic the actual physics are but they don't have the 'feel' for it yet. GT requires you to sense what the car is doing in totally different way to real life. Many games put it in the wheel, when the car starts oversteer or understeering the wheel strength gives out so you know you're pushing too hard and you ease off avoiding the problem. In GT, the wheel doesn't do this as a warning and you must be aware of the cars slip angle at all times along with the tyre sounds to know exactly what it is doing.

Once you have honed your senses in GT it is quite easy and a joy. To be honest I find the 370Z to be more of a understeery car with oversteer only coming if you are on the edge of grip and exceeding the slight slip angle, something that is easily corrected.


Edit, just noticed a similar post to mine has been made :)
Click to expand...

Well said 👍 Thats all i gotta say about that.
 
No46_TheDoctor
I don't see what the problem is that people are having with the physics, I find it much easier to push hard in the demo than it was in Prologue, with both cars.

The only reason I can think of is that alot of people were using the standard physics in Prologue and can't get their head around the Professional physics in the Time Trial.
Click to expand...

+10000 👍

Everyone seems to try and become an overnight sensation and when they fail they blame the game.
A bad workman always blames his tools :sly:
 
Jay
To me people problems with it doesn't come down to how realistic the actual physics are but they don't have the 'feel' for it yet. GT requires you to sense what the car is doing in totally different way to real life. Many games put it in the wheel, when the car starts oversteer or understeering the wheel strength gives out so you know you're pushing too hard and you ease off avoiding the problem. In GT, the wheel doesn't do this as a warning and you must be aware of the cars slip angle at all times along with the tyre sounds to know exactly what it is doing.
Click to expand...


What is the point of having a FFB wheel if you don't get that feedback. Anyone that has raced a car on a real race track will tell you that the most important feedback you get when the car is at its limit is through the wheel, the brake and the seat of your pants. The last two you can not get from the game so you have to rely on the feedback from the wheel to get those inputs.
FFB was not there in Prologue and its not there in GT5TT.
 
Am I reading it right? People are saying the TT physics are harder than real life? I find that hard to believe...
 
I get plenty of feedback, but it's from the wheel, the tire sounds, and from watching the car's behavior in chase mode, seeing as my much loved roof cam isn't in the TT demo. 👎

If you aren't relying on any of these combined, it's no wonder you're having trouble.
 
I use both pad (sticks) and wheel, and for the pad users out there, using a wheel is way harder and you won't catch the slides most of the time. You can go lock to lock with a pad in a split second, not realistic at all.

So you will get severe snapback fishtail with the wheel if you can even save it at all. Not quite as easy as with the pad sticks....
And the 900 degree lock to lock makes it even worse

When the wheels spin it just feels like your driving on an oil slick, there is no sliding bite at all.

If things stay like this, there won't be many people finishing a race at the Nurb with damage on ;)
 
anybody else in this forum watch the GT academy vids on this site? i mean ok, i too agree its not the real thing. but going from video games to actually being competitive in a professional racing series is quite impressive. i have put a lot of hours into this game, thousands of laps over the years. and i can tell you this. if you apply real life principles of driving a vehicle to your gameplay, you will knock off time, little by little, lap after lap. many of us members who've been here for a while will tell you that. no not perfect. but close enough to be completely thrilling. like a blind man relying on sound, forget g forces and the sense of mass, and focus on the other aspect of driving/racing.

P.S. Steering wheel a must. I use a Logitech G27. Fantastic. However the clutch doesn't work on the demo so i'm stuck using the paddle shifters. but after playing with the F1 in GT5P with paddles, its what i prefer. still, would be nice to drive with the same setup as the 370z. Oh, and check out the top replay vids on the leaderboards. you can clearly see the best times were done with a wheel.
 
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OZR-MrB52
What is the point of having a FFB wheel if you don't get that feedback. Anyone that has raced a car on a real race track will tell you that the most important feedback you get when the car is at its limit is through the wheel, the brake and the seat of your pants. The last two you can not get from the game so you have to rely on the feedback from the wheel to get those inputs.
Click to expand...

What we need is a steering wheel that squirts water on the players crotch when they're pushing the car to its limit 👍
 
OZR-MrB52
What is the point of having a FFB wheel if you don't get that feedback. Anyone that has raced a car on a real race track will tell you that the most important feedback you get when the car is at its limit is through the wheel, the brake and the seat of your pants. The last two you can not get from the game so you have to rely on the feedback from the wheel to get those inputs.
FFB was not there in Prologue and its not there in GT5TT.
Click to expand...


The most important feedback you get in a real car is motion, bar none (aka seat of your pants). You don't get all that much out of the wheel or brake pedal in comparison. It's motion, vision, sound. Wheel often gives you feeback of bumps, road cambers, curbs and when the tyres really start getting losing the wheel will lighten up.

GT does provide feedback on bumps, curbs, road cambers quite well but doesn't go to the same exaggerated extent on understeer and oversteer feedback other titles in a attempt to give you information lost due to having no motion. However you should be able to sense the cars slip angle by vision (in any view) without any wheel feedback, I used to do serious sim racing in Nascar Racing series 2002 by Papyrus (most the team makes iracing now) with a non-FFB wheel just fine.


ChzSteak
Oh, and check out the top replay vids on the leaderboards. you can clearly see the best times were done with a wheel.
Click to expand...

If you press X on the drivers name it will display details including which controller type was used (in the GT5 TT demo), yes most (but not all) of the top end times are wheels.
 

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