Jarno, JV, Fisi and BAR

[kensei]

So ya, JV is really ripping up the points and helping Renault get ahead of BAR in the constructors. It is pretty much decided now that Renault will be 3rd and BAR second. JV really helped out. Say what you like about JV, make excuses for him all you like, but he just isn't any good. never really was. Renault should have treated Jarno better and I bet they would still have more than a slim chance at the second spot. JV has the car that can podium now and he is STILL back in 10th'ish place.

Jarno Trulli....good on him for wrenching that aweful Toyota to provisional pole AND 6th on the grid, with very few laps in it. Unfortunately a driver can only do so much when the car is a pig and his final finishing spot was beyond his control. It is Ironic that Jarno was in the Renault and got alot of points in it this season with a win while JV gets the same car and can't do better than 10th....but at the same time Jarno can put the far far lower Toyota on the 3rd row on his first try.

Sorta proves the better driver there huh? Good one Flavio, I hope you are happy.

Fisi...is it just me or has he seemed to have stepped it up these last few races. His finishes aren't that great but his pace is much higher. I'll be excited to see him in the Renault next year. If Flavio was smart he would get JV into the Sauber for Brazil and get some points with Fisi.

If I was Mr. Sauber I'd be trying to figue out how dump JV. Granted if I was Mr. Sauber I would have never given JV a thought anyway.

BAR. Looks like they may be stuck with Jenson next year. What I don't get is why would you fight to keep a driver who screwed the team over and obviously doesn't want to be there. Let him go to Williams and get a driver who wants to be there. Let Jeson bring up the rear of the top 5 with the Williams next year.

 

[daan]

I don't see how you can judge JV after 2 races. He's came back into it after a year out so it will take a wee while to get back into it. It also seems to me that the Renault would be an awkward car to drive as it seems to have a load of understeer.

Truilli qualified 6th after getting the driest track. He went backwards as soon as the race started. He also set his best lap on the last lap (as he did in the Renault a few races ago.) What was he doing up to then? Admittedly, he's hardly driven the car, but still...

Fisi has been good all season. He's been Martin Brundle's driver of the day twice this year.

 

[kensei]

I don't see how you can judge JV after 2 races. He's came back into it after a year out so it will take a wee while to get back into it. It also seems to me that the Renault would be an awkward car to drive as it seems to have a load of understeer.

Truilli qualified 6th after getting the driest track. He went backwards as soon as the race started. He also set his best lap on the last lap (as he did in the Renault a few races ago.) What was he doing up to then? Admittedly, he's hardly driven the car, but still...

Fisi has been good all season. He's been Martin Brundle's driver of the day twice this year.

But wasn't JV's mission to come in and get points for Renault? Has he scored one yet? Yes i agree that he has had two races since a year off but excuses for him are running low (well IMO they ran out years ago). Surely he should have managed at least one point if he is as good as his fans say.

Yes Jarno did get the driest track in 1st qual. , but still he had a good lap in that car. Until the first pit stops in the race he was holding hsi own with cars much better than his. I was just impressed and hope for the best with Jarno and Ralph next year. In fact I am excited about the possibilites if Toyota can put a somewhat decent car on the grid next year.

Fisi has had a good season, but the past 3 races he has stepped up his game even more. I like to see it! Glad he is motivated.

 

[daan]

But wasn't JV's mission to come in and get points for Renault?

Yeah. It was the wrong decision. Trulli would've been a better prospect to get points than JV would be, but I can understand how Trulli was demotivated by Renaults decision to let him go. I don't see how Fisi is better than Trulli. They both seem to be quite even to me.

But Renault have fallen back recently anyway. BAR were always going to beat them to 2nd place in the constructors. Alonso hasn't done much for a few races either. Flavio seems to be blaming Trulli for Renault's under performance.

 

[kensei]

Yeah. It was the wrong decision. Trulli would've been a better prospect to get points than JV would be, but I can understand how Trulli was demotivated by Renaults decision to let him go. I don't see how Fisi is better than Trulli. They both seem to be quite even to me.

But Renault have fallen back recently anyway. BAR were always going to beat them to 2nd place in the constructors. Alonso hasn't done much for a few races either. Flavio seems to be blaming Trulli for Renault's under performance.

I agree actually. Bring Jv in was a very bad choice (regardless of who it was). It was a no win situation for eitherside.

The renault has fallen off pace a bit since the beginning of the season. Rather I don't think it has fallen off but it's development hasen't be as successful as some other teams.

Fisi and Trulli are fairly equal IMO as well, though i think Trulli is a slightly stronger driver, though Fisi seems to be able to take a car setup horribly and make the best of it. It will be interesting to see Fisi with the renualt though....he has never had a car that good.

 

[lewismrl]

I am a big JV fan having followed him through CArt and into F1 but he has long scince past his peak. He showed what he could do in two seasons at Williams but Joining and sticking with BAR was a bad move back then and killed his career.

How gutted must he be now though having stomped away from BAR last year just before they came good.

 

[Carl.]

JV's not to blame for Renault's failure to secure the second place in the championship, even Alonso wasn't a threat for BAR in the last two races, and nobody expected Jacques to be ahead, and certainly not far ahead Alonso.

That said, I'm very disappointed by JV's pace in the last two races, I thought he'd came back more competitive than this, even after a year off. He was physically exhausted near the end of both races and his performance has clearly suffered from that. And his fastest laps in both races are anything but impressive.

It's a shame that he had so little practice time to get used to the car though (which I think he'll have before Brazil), and he must work really hard on his physical condition. I wish him good luck for Brazil, but I don't have very high hopes...

 

[GilesGuthrie]

I've been pretty underwhelmed by JV's performances, but then he hasn't had a great deal of track time. Testing schedules are vastly abbreviated during the flyaway races.

So he went to China with four days in the car, and finished the race. Off the pace yes, but at least there at the end. Japan was a washout in terms of track time.

So is it fair to compare him with Alonso who has been working on the Renault development for three years? I don't think so.

Jarno's performances suffered because when you're out of the Briatore camp it's like someone has locked you in a cold dark room. And Trulli is mentally very weak. He's done moderately well in a Toyota that is significantly slower than it should be.

And Kensei, Trulli was swarmed all over throughout the race. He had obviously qualified the car beyond its potential.

I'm not a fan of either Trulli or Villeneuve, but too much is being expected of both of them.

 

[kensei]

I've been pretty underwhelmed by JV's performances, but then he hasn't had a great deal of track time. Testing schedules are vastly abbreviated during the flyaway races.

So he went to China with four days in the car, and finished the race. Off the pace yes, but at least there at the end. Japan was a washout in terms of track time.

So is it fair to compare him with Alonso who has been working on the Renault development for three years? I don't think so.

Jarno's performances suffered because when you're out of the Briatore camp it's like someone has locked you in a cold dark room. And Trulli is mentally very weak. He's done moderately well in a Toyota that is significantly slower than it should be.

And Kensei, Trulli was swarmed all over throughout the race. He had obviously qualified the car beyond its potential.

I'm not a fan of either Trulli or Villeneuve, but too much is being expected of both of them.

JV hasen't had pace since maybe 1998, even back then he had a car that was class of the field or close to it. I agree JV has had little track time in a car that has been commented as being hard to drive. But still it is always some excuse with JV and JV fans but frankly he has been well off the pace for 6 years now.

I like Jarno alot, but I agree he is weak mentally at times, especially when he feels he doesn't have his teams full support. That being said I also think his pace the last few races in the Renault was intentional as a last middle finger to Flavio.

I agree Jarno qualified the car beyond it's potential...but that speaks volumes for his natural pace. I hope Toyota can put a decent car on the grid next year and realistically fight for 5th, maybe 4th in the constructors...now my hope and reality may be far different, but I'll remain a Jarno fan. I've even warmed up to Ralph since he has returned.