Journalist Allegedly Killed In Saudi Embassy in Turkey

[Sanji Himura]

The journalist in question is Washington Post writer Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi national who has recently come under fire in Saudi Arabia for being critical of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. The man entered the Saudi embassy on Tuesday to obtain a document certifying that he had divorced his ex-wife so that he could marry a Turkish woman, but was not seen since. Khashoggi had instructed the woman to call a close advisor to the Turkish President if he was not seen coming out. Though the US has not weighed in on the matter, Turkey is asking the US to support them in the matter.

Turkey has claimed that Khashoggi had been tortured by 15 men, who have since fled the country, and then killed over his criticism of the Crown Prince.

But who is Jamal Khashoggi? Quoting the BBC:

A former editor of the al-Watan newspaper and a short-lived Saudi TV news channel, Mr Khashoggi was for years seen as close to the Saudi royal family. He served as an adviser to senior Saudi officials.

After several of his friends were arrested, his column was cancelled by the al-Hayat newspaper and he was allegedly warned to stop tweeting, Mr Khashoggi left Saudi Arabia for the US, from where he wrote opinion pieces for the Washington Post and continued to appear on Arab and Western TV channels.

"I have left my home, my family and my job, and I am raising my voice," he wrote in September 2017. "To do otherwise would betray those who languish in prison. I can speak when so many cannot."

He was 59 when he went missing and allegedly killed.

 

[mustafur]

Hmm these guys need more American weapons!

 

[baldgye]

Hmm these guys need more American weapons!

And British ones!

 

[Dotini]

How many journalists are killed worldwide every year? Hundreds?

It used to be that investigative journalists like Seymour Hersh, Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward could change the world for the better and be honored in the process. But in the postmodern world the stakes are higher, truth is way too precious to be permitted in the hands of the individual investigator. Rather it is commodified into institutional property, a fungible tool in the service of politico military strategy and tactics. Raw fact cannot be permitted to stand alone, but must serve a higher purpose.

 

[baldgye]

How many journalists are killed worldwide every year? Hundreds?

It used to be that investigative journalists like Seymour Hersh, Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward could change the world for the better and be honored in the process. But in the postmodern world the stakes are higher, truth is way too precious to be permitted in the hands of the individual investigator. Rather it is commodified into institutional property, a fungible tool in the service of politico military strategy and tactics. Raw fact cannot be permitted to stand alone, but must serve a higher purpose.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/266229/number-of-journalists-killed-since-1995/

 

[Johnnypenso]

The Turks are claiming audio and video evidence exists of the killing. Likely this means that the embassy is bugged with hidden audio and/or video equipment. This could become a major international diplomatic incident for reasons more than just the murder of a Saudi journalist.

 

[SestoScudo]

Journalist disappearance has been creating a lot of headlines.

We will see what will happen next.

 

[mustafur]

What is this, I wasn't expecting this.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/trump-vows-severe-punishment-for-saudi-arabia-if-khashoggi-was-killed

 

[Dotini]

Probably the playboy in Donald Trump won't be entirely happy until Saudi women are flouncing their breasts and buttocks around in skimpy bikinis. But in the meantime the sale of arms, control of oil, military alliances involving jihadis, Israel, and Sunnis will likely take precedence. China may be imprisoning millions of Muslim Uighur and killing scores of potential dissidents. But who gives a rip? Not us.

 

[Dennisch]

What is this, I wasn't expecting this.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/trump-vows-severe-punishment-for-saudi-arabia-if-khashoggi-was-killed

R. I. P. Afghanistan and Iraq 2.0

 

[PocketZeven]

The Turks are claiming audio and video evidence exists of the killing. Likely this means that the embassy is bugged with hidden audio and/or video equipment. This could become a major international diplomatic incident for reasons more than just the murder of a Saudi journalist.

Dont most embassies have some kind of video securitysystem? The article claims he recorded the kidknapping and torture on his own apple watch and it was uploaded to his cloud.

 

[baldgye]

 

[Sanji Himura]

Respect Mah Authority!

It sounds like Saudi Arabia wants to create a spin.

Dont most embassies have some kind of video securitysystem? The article claims he recorded the kidknapping and torture on his own apple watch and it was uploaded to his cloud.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...murdered-torture-turkey-embassy-a8582351.html

I'm not familiar with Apple Watches to say for certain, but it should be capable to at least record audio. The Turkish paper also claimed that the hit squad tried to delete the files through the watch, which is not really possible once it hits the iCloud. They tried to use his fingerprint, which I know works for iPhones, but not for apple watches. Plus there is the matter of his fiancee that was outside the embassy with the phone. If he was anywhere within 30m of the device, then yeah, it would have uploaded them to his iCloud account.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Dont most embassies have some kind of video security system? The article claims he recorded the kidknapping and torture on his own apple watch and it was uploaded to his cloud.

There's more, but this is the gist of it assuming a consulate and an full embassy are treated the same:
1. The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.

2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its dignity.

3. The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.

We're talking about a Saudi consulate here, not just another house on the block. So it begs the question of how the Turks would get video evidence of something that happened in a Saudi embassy if the premises are inviolable and not subject to search etc. The only way would be for the Saudis to hand the evidence over and they aren't under any obligation to do so AFAIK. From the article linked above, it appears the Saudis have said they would grant access but had yet to do so.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Dont most embassies have some kind of video securitysystem? The article claims he recorded the kidknapping and torture on his own apple watch and it was uploaded to his cloud.

Yes, but not one monitored by the host country. That would be a flagrant breech of diplomatic protocol (maybe even international law, idk).

The Turks are claiming audio and video evidence exists of the killing. Likely this means that the embassy is bugged with hidden audio and/or video equipment. This could become a major international diplomatic incident for reasons more than just the murder of a Saudi journalist.

One possible cover story is that the incident was recorded on his own Apple Watch. There's a good article at the BBC that explains why that's very unlikely.

 

[Liquid]

The rumour I heard was that he was killed inside the embassy, dismembered there and then his corpse was taken away to be "found" at a murder site away somewhere else sometime in the future.

It's gruesome stuff either way.

 

[PocketZeven]

A comedic look at the situation

 

[Johnnypenso]

A comedic look at the situation

It's a little early for a comedic take on a journalist allegedly tortured and dismembered, IMO anyway.

 

[TenEightyOne]

A comedic look at the situation

Not available in the UK, unfortunately.

It's a little early for a comedic take on a journalist allegedly tortured and dismembered, IMO anyway.

It might be too early for any given individual to find it funny, but it's not comedy's job to avoid offending those individuals. As I'm quite sure you'd agree.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It might be too early for any given individual to find it funny, but it's not comedy's job to avoid offending those individuals. As I'm quite sure you'd agree.

Comedy doesn't have a job, comedy has individuals that make decisions as to what to talk about and when. Anyone that thinks being kidnapped, tortured and dismembered makes for good comic fodder while the case is still actively being investigated, would best be described with words I cannot use here on GTP.

 

[PocketZeven]

It's a little early for a comedic take on a journalist allegedly tortured and dismembered, IMO anyway.

Typical to comment before watching it. They arent making fun of the torture or murder, comedy is used here to have people understand the situation better. Do you really think a multiple Emmy award winner is going to make fun of such a horrible act?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Typical to comment before watching it. They arent making fun of the torture or murder, comedy is used here to have people understand the situation better. Do you really think a multiple Emmy award winner is going to make fun of such a horrible act?

Yes I do. I think he's a buffoon who capitalizes on the misfortune of others because of his political leanings. I can't watch the link because it's blocked in Canada so I had to go to Youtube to see what I could find. I found this which I assume is a part of what you linked. Personally I find it disgusting. To me it's like taking a mic and standing on a pile of dead bodies to do your comedy act.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Sources: Saudi Officials to admit that the journalist was killed due to an operation went wrong. The original plan was to shanghai the writer out of the country(presumably to stand trial in Saudi Arabia), but certain elements killed him instead. The Saudi's has promised that those responsible will be brought to justice.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...rong-sources-say/ar-BBOqRDH?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yes I do. I think he's a buffoon who capitalizes on the misfortune of others because of his political leanings. I can't watch the link because it's blocked in Canada so I had to go to Youtube to see what I could find. I found this which I assume is a part of what you linked. Personally I find it disgusting. To me it's like taking a mic and standing on a pile of dead bodies to do your comedy act.

From the section you posted it's difficult to see how to justify the level of offence you seem to have taken. The video criticises the war in Yemen, shows a funny (unrelated) hotel sign, criticises Saudi Arabia and then Trump.

Where in the comedy and satire does he mock the (presumably) murdered journalist or the crime itself? Nowhere. What exactly has so thoroughly twisted your knickers?

 

[Sanji Himura]

From the section you posted it's difficult to see how to justify the level of offence you seem to have taken. The video criticises the war in Yemen, shows a funny (unrelated) hotel sign, criticises Saudi Arabia and then Trump.

Where in the comedy and satire does he mock the (presumably) murdered journalist or the crime itself? Nowhere. What exactly has so thoroughly twisted your knickers?

No offense, I personally think that he is an idiot too, but I won't go and jump off the deep end in proving that idiocity. I would rather not watch.

However, that isn't to say that @Johnnypenso isn't completely wrong here. Trying to make light in the face of an active investigation into the disappearance of a well-respected journalist is completely wrong, no matter how close the trigger is pulled, like John Oliver is trying to do.

 

[Johnnypenso]

From the section you posted it's difficult to see how to justify the level of offence you seem to have taken. The video criticises the war in Yemen, shows a funny (unrelated) hotel sign, criticises Saudi Arabia and then Trump.

Where in the comedy and satire does he mock the (presumably) murdered journalist or the crime itself? Nowhere. What exactly has so thoroughly twisted your knickers?

Didn't say I was offended or that my knickers were twisted, said I was disgusted. The Appeal to Emotion Fallacy seems to be popular around here today.

 

[baldgye]

Sources: Saudi Officials to admit that the journalist was killed due to an operation went wrong. The original plan was to shanghai the writer out of the country(presumably to stand trial in Saudi Arabia), but certain elements killed him instead. The Saudi's has promised that those responsible will be brought to justice.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...rong-sources-say/ar-BBOqRDH?OCID=ansmsnnews11

ohh butterfingers... accidentally torturing and murdering someone can happen to the best of us, I suppose...

Still, it could be worse, they could have produced a region locked video about the news! Now that would be bad

 

[Liquid]

Interrogation went wrong = tortured to death

 

[Dotini]

Always look on the light side.

But don't linger too long.

Just because some rogue actor had to be cut down to size () doesn't mean we have to sacrifice our strategic relationship with the Kingdom. Pompeo is over there now concocting some kind of cover story to salvage the situation. For the sake of our exceptionally great and eternal values, global freedom and democracy, do we countenance torture and murder. The ends justify the means.

 

[baldgye]

Just because some rogue actor had to be cut down to size () doesn't mean we have to sacrifice our strategic relationship with the Kingdom

You mean the selling of arms?

Reading and listening to FT reports on the matter, prior to this the business world basically overlooked SA's human rights violations, as doing or not doing business on those grounds can be a treacherous and lead to uncomfortable situations. However, in-spite of the huge revenue on the table and the ability to be on the ground floor on an economy that's been totally restructured (to be weaned off oil revenue), businesses are taking a stand. Regardless of what actually happened, this has been monumentally costly to the Kingdom and takes away any and all momentum from Mohammed Bin Salman