Just being honest

[ROYALEFATALE]

I would really love to see how GT5 compares to all the Gran Turismo's in sales at 577 days after launch (number taken from Famine's news post).

considering online is the only thing that has been keeping GT alive for the past year and a half that would be an unfair comparison.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

Pointless thread to be honest.

Seeing as we're being "honest"...your comment was just as pointless!

I fail to see why seemingly intelligent people who visit this forum can't seem to just 'look the other way' when they come across a thread that apparently doesn't interest them...but yet, somehow magically makes them want to insert some stupid, ill-logical, non-related post to it!

<begins to think that common sense, like Elvis, has left the building!>

 

[Mac K]

<begins to think that common sense, like Elvis, has left the building!>

Let's be honest, it probably wasn't here to begin with

 

[Jaywalker]

That is good to know. So GT5 (warts and all) still has managed to have every one the 7.3 million players to drive on average 500 online miles?

That is a smashing success.

Pointless correction:

36 400 000 000 / 7 300 000 = 4 986

So it's 5 000, not 500.

 

[Snakebitten]

The only real replay value gt5 has is online racing. I got tired of ASpec in a few month in. Just not enough offline content. And other than racing people online what is there? Racing the lame, pathetic AI in handicapped races over and over ad nauseum.

What does it say about us as consumers that an unfinished, unpolished unprofessional product like GT5 is such a success and has such devoted defenders? GT5 survived and thrived sales wise on its name and the great memories of previous GT games. If I'm Sony I'll keep putting out halfbaked crap that looks sufficiently shiny since the majority of current consumers are easily pleased.

I initially bought into the promises of them fixing and completing the game via patches and DLC. I for one will not buy GT6 right away. I'll wait to hear detailed confirmed info about it before I pay for another PD product. This is one consumer that will not roll over and accept another inferior product from them.

Alot of sales don't mean it's a quality product. Great marketing, clever gimmicks and a good name brand is all thats needed sometimes. It's got it's good points of course but the negatives outweigh the in my opinion.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I did think about this last night: about a year ago (maybe even longer at this point), when there was the SSR7 online race glitch that allowed people to finish 200 laps in about 10 minutes, I wonder if, for PD's purposes, that was counting the actual distance travelled by the GT-R (probably only a handful of miles' worth of donuts), or the intended race distance (roughly 2800 miles). There were people spending hours doing those races, buying up some of the 20 million dollar cars, and rinsing and repeating.

If PD is getting their numbers just based on an event's typical completed distance (no matter how the racers actually may have completed it, like the glitch), that could definitely have an inflating effect on the numbers.

On the other hand... does it count the endless amount of laps that took place in the near-daily "Open Track Day" rooms I had at the 'Ring back in late 2010 and early 2011, since those weren't technically races?

 

[another_jakhole]

^^^ I'm thinking it only takes into account how far your car has traveled if the 36.4 billion figures counts the miles when people are practicing before a Real Race or if they're running laps in Free Run. That's a good point though. BWX brought that up in the comments section.

The only real replay value gt5 has is online racing. I got tired of ASpec in a few month in. Just not enough offline content. And other than racing people online what is there? Racing the lame, pathetic AI in handicapped races over and over ad nauseum.

What does it say about us as consumers that an unfinished, unpolished unprofessional product like GT5 is such a success and has such devoted defenders? GT5 survived and thrived sales wise on its name and the great memories of previous GT games. If I'm Sony I'll keep putting out halfbaked crap that looks sufficiently shiny since the majority of current consumers are easily pleased.

I initially bought into the promises of them fixing and completing the game via patches and DLC. I for one will not buy GT6 right away. I'll wait to hear detailed confirmed info about it before I pay for another PD product. This is one consumer that will not roll over and accept another inferior product from them.

Alot of sales don't mean it's a quality product. Great marketing, clever gimmicks and a good name brand is all thats needed sometimes. It's got it's good points of course but the negatives outweigh the in my opinion.

uhhhh... I know of two people in here, including me, that are offline players.

I expected GT5's online to make it easy for us to find rooms quickly and race within a few minutes. In other words, I was expecting Matchmaking. There isn't so I've been playing GT5 for 19 months without racing online regularly. This is only to say that not everyone finds enjoyment with Online racing. More people than you think are "Offline-only" players.

 

[Santos i7]

uhhhh... I know of two people in here, including me, that are offline players.

I expected GT5's online to make it easy for us to find rooms quickly and race within a few minutes. In other words, I was expecting Matchmaking. There isn't so I've been playing GT5 for 19 months without racing online regularly. This is only to say that not everyone finds enjoyment with Online racing. More people than you think are "Offline-only" players.

I'm glad someone posted this because it's the same case for me. The flawed multiplayer is definitely not the only thing keeping this game alive.

 

[another_jakhole]

I'm glad someone posted this because it's the same case for me. The flawed multiplayer is definitely not the only thing keeping this game alive.

haha That's a good way of putting it.

I'm sure the people that are buying this this far down the line know about the Standard cars and maybe the "standard" tracks too.

 

[roflcoptor]

^^^ I'm thinking it only takes into account how far your car has traveled if the 36.4 billion figures counts the miles when people are practicing before a Real Race or if they're running laps in Free Run. That's a good point though. BWX brought that up in the comments section.


uhhhh... I know of two people in here, including me, that are offline players.

I expected GT5's online to make it easy for us to find rooms quickly and race within a few minutes. In other words, I was expecting Matchmaking. There isn't so I've been playing GT5 for 19 months without racing online regularly. This is only to say that not everyone finds enjoyment with Online racing. More people than you think are "Offline-only" players.

You can add me to the list of "Offline only"... I tried online once since the game was released, and it just doesn't do anything for me. Can't put my finger on an exact reason, but the whole experience was positively underwhelming.

 

[diegorborges]

I honestly can tell that I've had a lot of different experiences online. Racing seriously, racing for fun, time attacking, cruising, chasing speeders...

You just need to find the right room/group of friends and it'll work nicely.

Offline can be fun too. I've been founding some Aspec events kinda tricky after some of the last updates (Festa Cavallino, Lambo race, etc) of course, using compatible cars.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

The thing is you can tell its not dying since the game has more traffic than almost all other games with the exception of COD
Heck if it would count how many people played or were playing at the same time offline and online I wouldn't be surprised if it surpassed the 600k range
It sold 7.4 million copies , and whoever held on to the game sure as heck still plays it and all my gt5 friends only play gt5.. cant say the same for my uncharted , warhawk,motorstorm and twisted metal palls

 

[omgitsbees]

That is exactly why I posted this. No one can deny how impressive those numbers are.

I would really love to see how GT5 compares to all the Gran Turismo's in sales at 577 days after launch (number taken from Famine's news post).

Probably not well since PD hasn't bothered to update their website, and historically speaking, game sales drop way off after 2 months. 7 million is still an impressive number, but it's also the lowest selling in the core Gran Turismo series. GT5 is also the lowest rated among critics. As far as Metacritic ratings go (which matters big time in the game industry, even to Sony), Gran Turismo 5 is the lowest rated among its competitors.

 

[DGXR]

Yes some of GT5's content, development, achievements, etc are often criticized and there will always be critics -- I don't care if it's the most perfect thing ever to exist in the history of the world, someone will complain that it didn't come sooner. Yes offline content is certainly finite, but Arcade Mode helps a lot and there are *tons* of options in this game for adjusting event settings, AI competition, and so on. When I consider how quickly most other popular games go stale, GT5 seems almost miraculous. I try to remember that PS3 online gaming is *free*, and all this online racing is included with the $60 price of admission. An incredible deal. I love GT5.

 

[Snakebitten]

^^^ I'm thinking it only takes into account how far your car has traveled if the 36.4 billion figures counts the miles when people are practicing before a Real Race or if they're running laps in Free Run. That's a good point though. BWX brought that up in the comments section.


uhhhh... I know of two people in here, including me, that are offline players.

I expected GT5's online to make it easy for us to find rooms quickly and race within a few minutes. In other words, I was expecting Matchmaking. There isn't so I've been playing GT5 for 19 months without racing online regularly. This is only to say that not everyone finds enjoyment with Online racing. More people than you think are "Offline-only" players.

Im an offline player as well. I hated my online experience enough to not deal with the nonsense you have to go through to get a decent room. Getting kicked for the stupidest reasons etc. I said what I said in reference to a post in this thread of the amount of mileage that has piled up from online racing if I read correctly. So I assumed the majority played online as opposed to offline.

I'm quite tired of the offline race series myself. We've got a few new tracks and a few new cars and none have been added to a race series or new race series offline. Ive run out of finding ways to have fun offline to make up for the lack of races and variety. I don't really play it anymore but I peruse the forum every now and then to see if there is new DLC or something to spark interest again. That wheel patch got me playing again and actually using photomode again but its long since lost its appeal to me...If you and other still find it entertaining more power to you. I simply stated my opinion on my feeling toward PD and this game.

 

[avens]

Probably not well since PD hasn't bothered to update their website, and historically speaking, game sales drop way off after 2 months. 7 million is still an impressive number, but it's also the lowest selling in the core Gran Turismo series. GT5 is also the lowest rated among critics. As far as Metacritic ratings go (which matters big time in the game industry, even to Sony), Gran Turismo 5 is the lowest rated among its competitors.

but it's the type of game that continues to sell over the years, and GT5 XL was released recently.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I did think about this last night: about a year ago (maybe even longer at this point), when there was the SSR7 online race glitch that allowed people to finish 200 laps in about 10 minutes, I wonder if, for PD's purposes, that was counting the actual distance travelled by the GT-R (probably only a handful of miles' worth of donuts), or the intended race distance (roughly 2800 miles). There were people spending hours doing those races, buying up some of the 20 million dollar cars, and rinsing and repeating.

If PD is getting their numbers just based on an event's typical completed distance (no matter how the racers actually may have completed it, like the glitch), that could definitely have an inflating effect on the numbers.

On the other hand... does it count the endless amount of laps that took place in the near-daily "Open Track Day" rooms I had at the 'Ring back in late 2010 and early 2011, since those weren't technically races?

THIS!! This is exactly what I was thinking, I am going to guess.. or garuntee, that there has been more "cruised" Miles then there has been glitched underground miles..

 

[Goshin2568]

uhhhh... I know of two people in here, including me, that are offline players.

I expected GT5's online to make it easy for us to find rooms quickly and race within a few minutes. In other words, I was expecting Matchmaking. There isn't so I've been playing GT5 for 19 months without racing online regularly. This is only to say that not everyone finds enjoyment with Online racing. More people than you think are "Offline-only" players.

👍
I've been playing GT5 since release day, and I'm pretty sure I've never even been in an online race. And I've gotten tons of entertainment out of it.

 

[ajns73]

^^^ I'm thinking it only takes into account how far your car has traveled if the 36.4 billion figures counts the miles when people are practicing before a Real Race or if they're running laps in Free Run. That's a good point though. BWX brought that up in the comments section.


uhhhh... I know of two people in here, including me, that are offline players.

I expected GT5's online to make it easy for us to find rooms quickly and race within a few minutes. In other words, I was expecting Matchmaking. There isn't so I've been playing GT5 for 19 months without racing online regularly. This is only to say that not everyone finds enjoyment with Online racing. More people than you think are "Offline-only" players.

Really want to add to the legions of off-line players (myself included)? Count the "Collectors/Traders First" group. The closest I come to online play is racing seasonals. Of course this methodology opens one up to the argument that collectors/traders aren't really "playing" the game. Two answers to that: (1) If collecting wasn't intended to be "playing" the game, why are there over 5000 car/color combinations? Besides which, you have to earn credits for UCD/OCD purchases somehow; (2) Regardless of #1, offline still keeps me turning my PS3 on nearly every day to "play" GT5 over a year after I bought the game.

 

[DaveS1138]

Probably not well since PD hasn't bothered to update their website, and historically speaking, game sales drop way off after 2 months. 7 million is still an impressive number, but it's also the lowest selling in the core Gran Turismo series. GT5 is also the lowest rated among critics. As far as Metacritic ratings go (which matters big time in the game industry, even to Sony), Gran Turismo 5 is the lowest rated among its competitors.

GT5 may have the lowest number of total sales but it is also the title sold onto the platform with the lowest number of units sold.

Playstation 1 sold over 100 million units
Playstation 2 sold over 150 million units

Playstation 3 has only sold in the region of 60 million units so personally I would think that GT5 selling close to 80% of the average number of other GT sales whilst on a platform with a much lower install base is actually pretty damn impressive.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

I did think about this last night: about a year ago (maybe even longer at this point), when there was the SSR7 online race glitch that allowed people to finish 200 laps in about 10 minutes, I wonder if, for PD's purposes, that was counting the actual distance travelled by the GT-R (probably only a handful of miles' worth of donuts), or the intended race distance (roughly 2800 miles). There were people spending hours doing those races, buying up some of the 20 million dollar cars, and rinsing and repeating.

If PD is getting their numbers just based on an event's typical completed distance (no matter how the racers actually may have completed it, like the glitch), that could definitely have an inflating effect on the numbers.

On the other hand... does it count the endless amount of laps that took place in the near-daily "Open Track Day" rooms I had at the 'Ring back in late 2010 and early 2011, since those weren't technically races?

I think I can clarify this I used a x2010 with 0miles at the time I did the glitch twice and I think that x2010 has around 68-100 miles driven.I should mention I did other races using it.
Il have to check to be 100% because I have a couple x2010s.I used the white one.If its over 1k miles then more than likely the glitch miles was counted.

OT
I think the people that say that GT5 is dying and believe that a majority wasnt happy with the game is because of this site.Your more than likely post about a game on a message board if you dont like it(especially with GT) than you would if you actually liked it.I basically come on here for news not to talk about how good it is, I just get sucked into conversations occasionally .I had no clue those miles were only online miles.I put in over 100 miles on 05 la sarthe (10 laps) last night in 1 make race in practice mode.

 

[maxpontiac]

considering online is the only thing that has been keeping GT alive for the past year and a half that would be an unfair comparison.

Online has been keeping it alive for some people. What you said is pure opinion and doesn't apply to me.

I have been playing GT5 almost exclusively OFFLINE since launch. Sure, it doesn't have the A-Spec at the level of GT4, but there is plenty to do with the game for me.

Pointless correction:

36 400 000 000 / 7 300 000 = 4 986

So it's 5 000, not 500.

Ooops. I misplaced a zero in there somewhere.

Probably not well since PD hasn't bothered to update their website, and historically speaking, game sales drop way off after 2 months. 7 million is still an impressive number, but it's also the lowest selling in the core Gran Turismo series. GT5 is also the lowest rated among critics. As far as Metacritic ratings go (which matters big time in the game industry, even to Sony), Gran Turismo 5 is the lowest rated among its competitors.

another_jackhole provided a link that gives us a good idea on how false that statement of yours is (or could be). The numbers from GT5 look strong and are barely trailing GT4 I believe.

You can only fairly compare the titles at that the 577 day mark since GT5 has not been out nearly as long as the rest of them.

Yes, GT5 is the lowest scoring title to date, but I am not debating that one bit. Plus, as much as people like to bring that up, it has not reflected on the sales of this title being how no other racing game comes close to what GT5 has done in the sales department for this current generation of hardware.

 

[deep_sky]

GT5 may have the lowest number of total sales but it is also the title sold onto the platform with the lowest number of units sold.

Playstation 1 sold over 100 million units
Playstation 2 sold over 150 million units

Playstation 3 has only sold in the region of 60 million units so personally I would think that GT5 selling close to 80% of the average number of other GT sales whilst on a platform with a much lower install base is actually pretty damn impressive.

This argument is bogus, as GT3, the highest selling game in the series, launched with only 14.5million PS2's sold at the time, whereas GT5 launched with nearly 50million PS3's sold; so really, GT5 should have done a lot better than it has. What's also intriguing is that GT4 launched with around 90m PS2's shipped, yet that saw a decline in sales over GT3.

The install base has little to do with anything.

 

[Tenacious D]

This argument is bogus, as GT3, the highest selling game in the series, launched with only 14.5million PS2's sold at the time, whereas GT5 launched with nearly 50million PS3's sold; so really, GT5 should have done a lot better than it has.

Stats on GT3 really don't work well in anyone's arguments.

• It is STILL for sale new. I was stunned to see new copies on racks here in Missouri. A game which is mega-popular and which has been out for eleven years in America as of July 10 will most likely outsell other versions, unless it is crap in comparison.
• GT4 was the best selling PS2 game for its first six months of sale in the PS2's history, and GT5 is in the same pace.
• Racing games, especially simulation style racers, are a niche market compared to sports games or shooters, so no Gran Turismo is likely to sell 20 million copies in a year compared to a Madden, Fifa, Battlefield or Call of Duty.

GT5 is doing just fine, and if that vexes some of you, I have to wonder why. There is something worse than being overly in love with a game, and that's having a grudge against it, or its maker. Is anything more pointless in this universe?

 

[maxpontiac]

GT5 is doing just fine, and if that vexes some of you, I have to wonder why. There is something worse than being overly in love with a game, and that's having a grudge against it, or its maker. Is anything more pointless in this universe?

You just hit the nail on the head when it comes to describing GTPlanet. So many people here are not happy with GT5, yet the remain here for the "cause". What's that "cause" I am speaking about? I'll let them answer that themselves.

Take the post above me. It is posted as if everything that was said is fact, which couldn't be further from truth.

As I said in my original post, GT5 is not failure by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it may "disappoint" in certain instances, but for the most part GT5 is a sucess.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Stats on GT3 really don't work well in anyone's arguments.

You discredit your own argument with that statement.

Stats that work for GT5, also work for GT3.

If anything, the stats for GT5 are the most misleading.

Using a conservative estimate, at least half of those 7 mil of GT5 sales were previous players of the series.
Those sales were a given, based on the standard of prior releases.

Before GT5's release, I don't think anyone could have convinced me or them, the game would be so far off the prior standards.

I firmly believe that like me, most of that half is on the other side of the fence now.

This time it will be up to those that review and play GT6 to convince me the game is worth buying.

GT5 is doing just fine, and if that vexes some of you, I have to wonder why.

It doesn't vex me at all, especially considering the aforementioned circumstances.

There is something worse than being overly in love with a game, and that's having a grudge against it, or its maker.

I'd say thats more of a toss up.

Is anything more pointless in this universe?

Yes.
If PD repeated the same mistakes they made in GT5, with GT6.

 

[Scaff]

You just hit the nail on the head when it comes to describing GTPlanet. So many people here are not happy with GT5, yet the remain here for the "cause". What's that "cause" I am speaking about? I'll let them answer that themselves.

So if we are disappointed with some or all aspects of GT5 then we should leave GT Planet?

How about no.

Quite frankly that's a rather poor piece of logic and one that really doesn't stand up to an analysis of the long term user base here, yes many come here for the GT element, but those who stay long term do so for much, much more than that.

Take the post above me. It is posted as if everything that was said is fact, which couldn't be further from truth.

And now its gone, because we don't need ludicrous flame-bait and noise from either side.

As I said in my original post, GT5 is not failure by any stretch of the imagination. Sure, it may "disappoint" in certain instances, but for the most part GT5 is a sucess.

That depends entirely on what you use to judge success or failure.

From a Sony/PD standpoint its almost certainly been a success, its sold a quite frankly stupid amount for a racing title and as such has been a great revenue stream for them.

However when you start to move to individual views of its success or failure in comparison to part titles in the series then its a much more personal view and most certainly falls into the area of opinion. For me GT5 has failed to provide a solid physics engine in comparison to its competition and has failed to provide a comprehensive and consistent experience, as such I have played it far less than any part title in the series. On my personal measure its a failure and sales and usage figures can't change my opinion of it in that regard.

Do I want PD to improve in all these areas and produce a successor that will address these issues? Of course I do and while I wait to see if that happens I will remain a member here and even if they fail with GT6 I fully intend to stay.

I would also ask you to refrain from suggesting that those who are disappointed with GT5 (regardless of how high that level of disappointment is) leave GT Planet.

 

[Santos i7]

I'm not taking any sides here, but since we're comparing sales figures, realise those figures might be a bit misleading. Let's not forget that GT3 and GT5 both came with their respective system at some point. So a whole lot of people got the games only because they came with their systems, and never had any intention of buying the games had they not come with the systems. And since the PS2 sold more units, then GT3 will obviously have a higher sales figure because of it.

 

[maxpontiac]

Scaff -

With all due respect, you have made a mistake by assuming that, and for the life of me, I am not sure what in my post gave you that idea.

In fact, please show me where in this thread I "suggested" people leave. I haven't, and especially didn't do that in my post you quoted. I simply agreed with what TD stated and added my own point to it.

Please do not put words in my mouth.

I do understand what you are saying though, and that is that the staff here requires people who complain in order to stay alive. Without them, this place would be dead and we can't have that now can we?

Anyways, everything you dislike about GT5 is fine because it is your opinion. You don't believe GT5 provided "this" or "that", while I on the other hand are pleased with what the latest version of Gran Turismo brought to the table.

My whole point of this thread was to prove that dispite what this place says, it does not speak for the entire Gran Turismo community.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff -

With all due respect, you have made a mistake by assuming that, and for the life of me, I am not sure what in my post gave you that idea.

In fact, please show me where in this thread I "suggested" people leave. I haven't, and especially didn't do that in my post you quoted. I simply agreed with what TD stated and added my own point to it.

Please do not put words in my mouth.

Would you mind clarifying then what you are suggesting that those here for the 'cause' should do, because you seem to be rather strongly suggesting that you don't know why they remain?

So many people here are not happy with GT5, yet the remain here for the "cause". What's that "cause" I am speaking about? I'll let them answer that themselves.

Your words strongly imply that they should justify the reason why they remain here, and to be blunt no member who follows the AUP is required to do any such thing.

I do understand what you are saying though, and that is that the staff here requires people who complain in order to stay alive. Without them, this place would be dead and we can't have that now can we?

Utter and complete nonsense, if that were the staff's aim then moderation would take a very different tone entirely.

My whole point of this thread was to prove that dispite what this place says, it does not speak for the entire Gran Turismo community.

Nor has it ever claimed to, but that doesn't change the fact that we are the largest GT forum on the web, we also know that both Sony and PD (among other development teams) do come here.

As such this is a perfectly valid place to discuss what people like and dislike about GT (and for that matter a far, far wider range of topics).