Flowering00
(Banned)
- 79
- United Kingdom
Still wants a game to be a greedy cashgrab, judging my simple lack of events that take literally zero efforts to add, including the fact that they have all these 25 years of creating such. Good job, Kaz.
Kazunori Yamauchi on Gran Turismo 7’s Future, the GT World Tour, and More
- Thread starter Famine
- 180 comments
- 17,914 views
- 364
- United Kingdom
- ZedNinetySix &
Gran Turismo 2 is still one of the most solid games out there regardless of that rare glitch.
And is still praised today as one of the best games of all time.
So yes, I'd rather have an almost 100% solid game on release than a game released at 50% with the next 40% being fixed over the next 7 years of the games lifecycle.
No doubt are there real benifits to updates, but it lets developers ride scummy practices of releasing half-baked games which mostly never get fixed to completion even with all the updates.
Gran Turismo 4 is the absolute epitome of perfected & solid on release.
Even if GT4 was released in the era of updates, it wouldn't need any, it's just that solid, reliable, and durable, with so much replayability.
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- 2,099
- Zimbabwe
Standalone as in it does not change the base game. It's just a new region and gear and whatnot. A Spec 2 expansion on the other hand would (you'd hope) encompass major changes to the game itself.
Then you come to the matter of future updates. Would PD be producing additional content for Spec 2 on top of the base game? Or will support for "free" players be cutoff entirely? And given the updates we've received so far, is PD even capable of producing more content under this live service model?
There is a difference between updates needed to fix game breaking glitches and updates needed to finish developing a game that was sold for full price.
Other early access games at least give you the courtesy of a discount and loyalty perks (and are upfront about the fact that you're buying an unfinished game).
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- 819
- Austria
I consider also as a generally good thing that Kaz ain’t following the trend of todays online game culture, but when you eff’d things up, then you should put your own agenda (or whatever you wanna call it) aside for a moment and speak in a clear way to your community. The statement he gave after the update-debacle in march was good, but in my view there hasn’t come a lot of action after it. I don’t have the feeling that what came with the updates wouldn’t have come anyways. Maybe the car-selling feature, but that’s nothing I’m very thankful of because it was advertised before launch and is even written on the game’s box.
We just had 1 new set of missions, right after launch, no new music rally’s, and most importantly a lack of single-player events. I really had more fun with GT Sports Events, they felt also more focused on specific cars or groups of cars.
not all games, especially the ones which underdelivered at launch had some increase over time in support like Fallout 76 or No Man‘s Sky.
But it’s always hard to guess what PD is going to do..
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- 4,548
- Australia
He thinks about the future so much in fact, that he's unable to provide a solid plan for it.
- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
To be fair, developers used to release broken and unfinished games in the past too. They were mostly just called bad games and people didn't play them.
The difference in the modern era is that now when a bad game releases it's unclear whether it might be better in the future or if it's always going to be a turd. Particularly given that there's some high profile examples of games with catastrophic releases turning things around in a big way, but I'd venture to say that they're the exception rather than the rule and most games that are bad at launch are still going to be bad a year or two later.
I've had corrupted saves and the like. I'd rather have that occasionally than not enjoy practically any new game. Even God of War Ragnarok came out missing photo mode.
Playing 8 new complete games per year with 1 corrupted save > Never really playing a finished game and keeping my saves.
- 1,845
- United States
No it doesn't. Horizon adding a complete extra standalone piece of story content on PS5 only does not set precedence that they're going to straight up stop supporting a live service PS4 title and switch to only supporting it on PS5. They're completely different situations.
They're supported strongly for about two years at the most. After that, it's minor updates and fixes. I see no evidence or anything Kaz has said to believe GT7 will be any different in that regard. GT7 is different however in that it's the first cross-gen game, and for that reason, I can very much see them stopping support even sooner to focus on the next, PS5 only game.
We're 9 months into updates now and there has only been one significant feature update, and that was just something that was supposed to be there day 1. There is absolutely ZERO sign of any substantial new content or features, beyond the drip feed format they've been following so far. There is no roadmap, there is no tease of future features, or substantial changes to the game.
You're just living in pure hope with your big Spec 2 update full of new stuff.
I've never said I categorically don't believe a PC version could happen. It could. What I keep calling you out on is constantly mentioning it as if its a matter-of-fact thing, when it's not. Whenever I call you out on your supposed inside information, you go quiet.
GT games have never been given away in any PS+ offering, I see no reason for that to change. They didn't even give away GT6 when it flopped to try and boost it.
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- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Maybe, but the thing most lacking from GT7 seems to be races and gameplay content. That's not stuff that's being held back by the PS4, and there's no reason to think that a PS5-only version of GT7 would look any different from a gameplay perspective.
It's always nice if a game looks prettier, but GT7 on PS5 is a good looking game already.
Can you show me on this doll where Mr. Kaz touched you? Such anger, eesh.
Anyway, your join date tells me that you were around Gran Turismo during GT5 and Spec 2. Which, if I can refresh your memory, came out of basically complete nowhere. To modify your phrasing, you're living in complete denial with your absolutely certainty that a "GT7 Spec 2" will never happen. Don't get me wrong, I personally don't see a GT7 Spec 2 happening, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
- 40,816
This is pretty misleading, since GT2 did have post-release updates to fix this; as have other games that had similar major problems of the era. I wasn't in the community at the time to know whether Sony did any sort trade-in thing for a new disc pressing like other companies have done; but I daresay the 1.2/Greatest Hits versions were likely far more ubiquitous. It certainly took far less time for PD to fix and issue said fixes for the major game breaking issues in GT2 than it did to make it so you can sell cars in GT7 and anything that they begrudgingly put into GT6.
I think we have a significantly different idea of what "truly unfinished products" means if you're talking about weird event restrictions and issues with spelling mistakes on a feature that vanished from the series for a decade after GT2 anyway (and also had similar goofy errors when said feature came back). No, GT2 wasn't a 100% finished perfect product. That is hyperbole from the original person you were replying to (though the fact that you went straight to GT2 as a response and not GT1 or GT3 or GT4 or GTPSP is telling in itself).
You know what GT2 also wasn't? A game so unfinished despite 16 months of Kaz saying that it was in the polishing stage that it took 4 months to have the ability to adjust gear ratios (and to be frank another 8 months on top of that to actually be a polished experience). GT2 wasn't a testbed for how much someone can lie about post-launch support of a (wow, Jim Ryan being scummy all the way back in 2013!) game in order to convince skeptical people that it's worth investing in before almost immediately abandoning it except for an extremely cut down implementation of what was absolutely necessary to put in (and never actually reaching feature parity with the prior game (GT6). GT2 wasn't a social experiment for how little of a game they can release for full price while claiming that the name change is only a marketing exercise and that the full franchise experience will be present, and with no microtransactions (GTS)! We're all living through the GT7 debacle right now.
Post-release patches are absolutely something that can be beneficial. On that I agree. And not every game releases is a Fallout '76 or No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk rags to riches example of post-launch attempts to salvage a rushed mess. But while I'll never take from PD the genuine effort they put into turning GT5 around back when we thought them releasing that game in the state it was was merely an anomaly, it wasn't an anomaly. Few developers abuse it as regularly to justify dumping half-baked games on the market as PD has since getting the ability to do so. And the results are not always in tune with them actually working to fix it either. Game Freak, maybe; but Game Freak cares even less about the state their games initially release in than PD does since they rarely do anything to improve them unless they are charging you for it.
I still play GT2, GT3 and occasionally GT4 (I hate the physics so that's more of a rarity). Can confirm.
I just lost my entire garage in GT2 a few months ago, following an update to the excellent GT2+ mod that rendered it incompatible with the cars in the previous versions. I also lost my entire save a couple times back in the day due to a memory card that was faulty but I didn't understand at the time to be the root cause. GT2 wasn't structured like a gacha game so it really wasn't difficult to get back to where you were. Annoying, sure.
No it didn't. Revisionist history doesn't help your case any.
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Flowering00
(Banned)
- 79
- United Kingdom
As someone who lived through the original release of GT2, and still owns their bugged out copy, I can tell you that Sony certainly did not do any sort of automatic, "we're just going to mail a new copy to those who registered" thing. I can't say for certain if they would do a free exchange upon request, as this was now almost 25 years ago, but according to Wikipedia they did. I'm pretty sure I would have exchanged it for the improved copy had I known about it, since I was a big follower of gaming magazines and even websites in those early days of the public-facing internet, but who knows how well publicized it was.
Sorry, GT2 is my clearest memory of a non-patchable entry in this series being problematic upon launch. Clearly we're of differing opinions on the severity of the glitches, but I'd call "potential to lose your garage" game breaking (it especially was back then) and the restriction errors (which also allowed not-on-theme AI cars into the races), which basically made every single race the same exact type of event just with different HP limits, pretty "lacking in content." If you say "Oh, but you can just self-limit yourself to using the proper cars!" my response is "GT7's Custom Race Mode." I'm gonna call a game that had over 400 cars from launch, and (to date), a very-much-adequate number of events, with little-to-no game-breaking glitches not a "truly unfinished product."
I do not debate that GT7 is a disastrous launch and mediocre product from the get go. But as we have already seen, improvements are being made, and honestly they are being made at a rate that is satisfactory to me. I cannot fathom why there is all of this pure anger being directed at PD and Kaz over this. Then again, I'm not a completionist, or a "gotta have everything on demand" kind of person.
As do I (GT2 anyway), on my PSP, when I'm somewhere where I can't engage in the proper modern experience. I started my GT career with the original, and will gladly take GT7, even as it exists today, over any of the previous examples.
When one is younger, yeah losing your entire garage is crushing. It happened to me. Nowadays, that I know the tricks to making money quickly, it's much less of an issue.
GT7 is structured like a gacha game because that is the way the industry is trending. I don't blame the developers, I blame the gacha whales who dump hundreds of dollars into those systems, telling the developers that "hey, this is how we make money!"
GT5 Spec 2 was hinted at on August 27th, announced on September 28th, and was released on October 10th. I'd call less than two month lead time "basically out of nowhere," but again that my just come down to difference of opinion. Note that I'd argue his statement of "big things are coming" on July 29th was no different than what we're getting now from Kaz.
Your phrasing absolutely implied that you believe it's certain you don't think there will be a Spec 2. My apologies if I misinterpreted your statement.
Is what based on what? I said that I personally don't believe that a "Spec 2"-esque update is coming, just that I don't believe its outside the realm of possibility. I don't believe it's outside the realm of possibility because GT7 has existed to the public for just over 9 months, and we didn't even get a hint about GT5 Spec 2 until around that time in that game's life.
- 29,996
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
How does not owning a game = having no idea what the game is or it's value is? He doesn't own it because he knows the games value isn't high enough for him to justify owning it.
I own the game and I agree with much of what @Samus has said, yes the ongoing free DLC is by itself a good thing, however none of it is fixing the issues the game has (aside from the introduciton of being able to sell cars which fixes one issue the game had at launch). And it is being drip fed, and no I'm not talking about additonal cars and tracks (though they are being released much slower than for GT:Sport), that's not the problem, it's the lack of meaningful content making good use of what the game already has. Content that really should have been in the game at launch (a proper single player career experience for one).
Regardless of the support the game has recieved and what we can reasonably expect to continue, the game is an unbalanced mess and there are no signs that this will be fixed in the future. The games economy constantly works against the player, the game uses FOMO tactics to keep people playing every day and to encourage those who are encouragable to buy MTX's.
The games issues could end up being fixed in updates in the future, but nothing to date suggests they are even considering these fixes, they're looking at VR2 and Sophy which appears will be integrated in a missions like mode rather than being an alternative AI that can populate a grid for you to race against in actual races.
That doesn't mean there's no enjoyment to be had by anyone, there is, but all I'm reading here is your opinion, which is fine, but you don't have to attempt to tear down someone else's to justify having your own.
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Tell me where I've said something incorrect then. Also, how do you know I've not bought it yet? Do I have to announce it to the forum when I do?
Do these other games claim to be live service games? Most games do not ever claim to offer huge post-launch support, so hardly something to critique them for. They also tend to offer more at launch than GT7 did.
Three or four races a month is drip feeding. They could quite clearly add far, far more at a time. They did for Sport. Three cars a month, when in the past they've managed far more, also points to dripfeeding. Especially when most of those cars are coming from a list found in the game at release, but not conclusive. Tracks, no, you can't really dripfeed those. They're ready when they're ready, and it seems new tracks simply aren't ready.
What do online esports events have to do with dripfeeding of content for the ~85% of people who don't care for those?
Huh? What has PS+ subscribers got to do with GT?
- 29,996
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
- 79
- Spain
keep praying
- 29,996
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
First point, define vast numbers and provide your source for this statement? Second point, I wonder how many people who do play every day do the driving marathon out of FOMO that today they'll win a decent ticket and prize and once they've hit that they shut the game down.
I play the gamre and dissagree here. There isn't enough content, that's the problem. The game launched with less than 100 races in the World Circuits, that's races not events. The game is shallow and IMO (and you are welcome to your own as is @Samus) does not justify full price. And it does not keep me coming back to the game. Speak for yourself not others or provide a source and figures to back up what you are claiming. GT4 has more replay value for me, I literally spend more time playing GT4 in 2022 that GT7.
You need to pay that same fee to play any PlayStation game online, that doesn't mean people are paying £10 to play GT7 specifically. That fee also includes other perks. I do not pay that fee because GT7 is currently the only game I play on the PlayStation, and I play it for about an hour a month and there's no way I'd subscribe to PS+ just to play GT7 online. The rest of my gaming is on my PC.
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- 51,195
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
I wonder if Kaz listening to the GT community are one of the reasons why we have less duplicates. I'm thinking about it as a negative. It may be a reason why we don't have some entry level/base trim models. Instead, we have certain parts and/or removal of parts. The lack of PD designed complete Racing Modifications.
Some of the parts available for o make certain cars look plain, will doesn't factor in a removal of a turbo or supercharger or a smaller capacity engine. We can decrease the diameter of some wheels and sure, we can play with the ECU, but it's not the same.
Yes, I understand about all the work to model the base model trim with th no floor mats or it doesn't have the Bose sound system and HID lights, etc. If PD(or outsourced modellers) took the time to model various other trim pieces, one or two models of each car could have b en done. Again, could be thanks to many that complained of duplicates and Kaz found a way to appease those players, with the GTAuto parts.
Some of the parts available for o make certain cars look plain, will doesn't factor in a removal of a turbo or supercharger or a smaller capacity engine. We can decrease the diameter of some wheels and sure, we can play with the ECU, but it's not the same.
Yes, I understand about all the work to model the base model trim with th no floor mats or it doesn't have the Bose sound system and HID lights, etc. If PD(or outsourced modellers) took the time to model various other trim pieces, one or two models of each car could have b en done. Again, could be thanks to many that complained of duplicates and Kaz found a way to appease those players, with the GTAuto parts.
ford capri
(Banned)
- 95
keep defending an incomplete game, kaz is too focused on the online part and on esport events which, looking at the statistics, are of interest to a small part of the players, from the trophy statistics only 18% completed a race in sport mode.
for nine months on this forum people have been complaining about the lack of a proper career mode and absolutely nothing has been done by polyphony, not even a new championship has been added
for nine months on this forum people have been complaining about the lack of a proper career mode and absolutely nothing has been done by polyphony, not even a new championship has been added
