Kazunori Yamauchi on Gran Turismo Fan Expectations, SUVs, Expensive Wheels, Tourist Trophy, and More
- Thread starter Famine
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But the Civics in GT1 and 2 weren't just your mom's ******* Civics, they were the top of the range Japanese SiR models with 170 horsepower that were the top hot hatchbacks of the time, they were and still are actual enthusiast cars built with the driving experience in mind that became very popular in Japan around then, which is why they added them in the game, they didn't just think "Hey, let's add the most boring car possible into the game!".
This goes for most of the cars in the game, the Corollas featured are the high performance Trueno and Levin models, the Mirage was the hot hatch ZR model, the Golfs were the GTis and so on. All of these "obtainable" cars are still enthusiast cars that all have a following to this day for a reason. I think there should be more affordable cars too, but that doesn't mean PD should start adding diesel Qashqais because a bunch of middle aged parents drive them. A decently specced Qashqai costs the same as a Golf R, an I30N, GR86 or Civic Type R, it's not any more "affordable" than them, it's just more common. Why? Because the average person isn't a car enthusiast, they want something that is comfortable with big cargo space. It's driven by people who don't care about cars. Gran Turismo is a simulator-ish racing game, played by people who do care about cars.
Polyphony can just about bring us three new cars a month into this already extremely barren car selection, there are probably closer to hundreds of great affordable enthusiast cars out there driven by people who play this game that deserve to be represented in it, not one of those spots should be wasted on some garbage SUV that drives like a sponge while the cars people truly care about are still missing.
All of todays cars are larger and heavier than what went before due to safety legislation and tech. SUV's are no longer an outlier in terms of weight, and modern suspension technology means they no longer wallow like models from a decade ago.
What's surprising is people don't seem to be acknowledging how manufacturers line-up's are changing, or how the size & shape of traditional models have changed. Back in the day every family had a mid-large size saloon or estate, models like the Mondeo, Laguna, 3-series etc. Today, only premium brands like BMW, Merc, Audi are in this segment. With sales losing out massively to SUV models, often from within the same brand.
Put a modern Civic, Yaris, Puma etc. next to an equivalent model from the 90's, and they all have the dimensions of mini SUV's.
- 624
- Germany
- Mieze-MUC
Of course you are right. My comment was also rather to be read with a smile.
But to be honest, I would be happy if they would first build up the present before talking about future. I was a bit disappointed when I noticed that after the launch of the game there were hardly any current vehicles available. We were incredibly happy ABOUT being able to get a M2 and cheered frenetically when we were presented with a C8 and thus a really current car.
Regards
M
In the first november weekend youtube recommended me the btrc/barc races at brands hatch. Truck racing is pretty impressive, especially when these trucks take off on the beginning.Yeah, what kind of moron races those, eh?
First thing I did was to google which games/simulators have truck races
chromatic9
Premium
- 2,835
- England
- chromatic9
I encountered the same problem. My friend has an expensive SUV that an elderly relative couldn't get into, she found it difficult to get high enough up to the seat and then struggled to get over the side of it and had to abort. She was exhausted after 5-10 mins of trying and got into a my low saloon car in seconds. These SUVs look big but can have quite narrow doors, bulky high sporty seats with 20 buttons and motors underneath. It's a sport utility vehicle after all, not a classic 4x4 or people carrier like a Espace/Zafira and really has evolved into a trendy large sports car.
- 1,361
- Deadlights with Pennywise and the Balloons
- naughty_teddy1
Modern Civic's are big, more like the size of larger medium family cars from 20 years ago.... certainly more usable space, well designed than large family cars from the 80's (in the UK).
I was looking hatches 5 or so years back and Civic is/was class leader for boot space, interior size in hatch range. Equivilent is something like the q5, qashqai (mid suv's at least in the UK, perhaps smaller if in US...). Yaris is smaller, Corolla better example from Toyota in that segment. Yaris is more like a q3 or Juke (small UK suv's). The useable space is the same, but the suv is much bigger...
But yes read something few years ago about how saloon sales in UK have dropped massively in past few years. Saloons don't have hatch boot, so even if large 5 series, A6, still can be a little awkward compared to hatch boot on cars or suv's.
Personally, I love the looks of high performance german estates/tourers. If I ever had to get rid of my M3 F80 for practical reasons, I'd be looking at Rs4, M3 (first m3 estate coming out), C63 etc to meet my needs over any SUV. Or S4, 340i etc. Even the less focused versions from those brands look decent with sline, m trims etc. I took a new Corolla Estate out a year back, 1.8 or 2ltr hybrid. Was very impressed tbh.
Mazda 6 saloon and estate also decent and great value imo (if you avoid their dodgy diesel versions...). Very nice looking cars, not as wonky looking as many Japanese cars over the past decade or 2. Or Volvo V60's, nice looking cars...
I do like look of the x5m's, volvo xc90's, but can;t see myself every choosing one over the cars listed above, unless 'normal' cars become obsolete. I see SUV's as something you cruise around in, relaxing drive, eating up straight motorway miles with your family onboard etc. Obviously you get performance versions that are more focused, and no doubt fun to drive in many ways, but regardless, I can't see how ultimately, they'd handle as well as a performance car due to centre of gravity??
If I needed to 'meet in the middle' with rest of family, I'd do that by suggesting an Rs4/6, not an SUV
. Although I must say, my ex wife refuses to sit in my M3 (20" inch low profile wheels), as says the firm ride (even on comfort settings) gives her travel sickness . I think she's just being difficult! I'll watch how I tread with this, as stepped over the forum line last time, but ime, women in particular seem to find SUV's appealing. Women I've 'dated' past few years all said they prefer SUV's and pick out SUV's when I ask their 'dream car'. Whereas men more likely to say a supercar, or high performance more 'normal' car if the topic comes up. My colleague has a Cayenne Hbyrid on order, so it'll be interesting to see what he thinks of that. He currently has a Range Rover Sport (diesel).
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- Nova Scotia
- cbmurch
- cbmurch1792
No. I see this as a game developer stating that having no development roadmap other than to do whatever players (most who have little concept of the time, effort and return on investment involved) ask is a recipe for disaster.
- 215
- Spain
about suvs i think theres definitely enthusiasts driving them, are there enthusiasts enjoying driving them though? people often driven suvs because they want space, they arent seeking any driving emotions or anything, i would understand having the ferrari suv, or the sporty alfa which cant remember its name, but i dont think people is pushing to have all the other regular SUVs, could be mistaken though
Are people serious right now? One of the most famous Gran Turismo cars is an SUV. Guess it’s an eye opener for those that didn’t know.
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- 53
- Moscow
As far as I remember, GT Sport launched without a single "classic" car, and they were slowly added in later updates.
Well, yeah, GT Sport wasn't a main GT title after all, it's only an experimental thing, a demo like GT5 Prologue with an online-e-sports focus, without any classic content or a career mode in mind, but now they have to balance between what general public wants and what they're pushing out as their fresh vision. This generates GT7 - A game with a little bit of everything but nothing done properly.
Career is basically non-existent, and the cafe thingy is so little it can be done in a day or two. Back in the GT Sport day, the backlash was huge and they HAD to make some sort of Career event system. Was it hard for them to make it? Absolutely not. Is there any reason to not to have it in GT7? No, besides keeping you grinding on same events and wasting real money on in-game content when you give up. But cafe is "Kind of a career" so the backlash is not that huge this time and they're not going to do anything about that.
The online experiense is mostly choppy/laggy because of the inner works of the game's engine and the penalty system just adds to frustration. It can't be fixed, because it's in core of te game.
I remember the days when there was no way of pushing an incomplete AAA game and then updating it later to add missing features, content and fix bugs. The games was ready, thought trough, tested and had tons of content to for you to enjoy.
Same goes for cars - they have to fill the gaps now, and these gaps have cars that are much more important to most players than SUV's. We're lacking tons of really interesting cars, and PD is slooowly pushing them out, despite their vision. It's just really slow. As usual with PD.
The VR thingy is a nice touch and despite ending up with not a lot of people buing it and enjoying the game in VR, they had to make it and spend their time on it, at least because GT is Sony's system-seller game and they have to show off something
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The funniest part of the SUV debate this topic has turned into is the fact that the concept version of the Mazda CX-7 was in GT4, GT5, and GT6. 🤣
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- Moscow
As far as i remember, most game devs (Forza,NFS (not always), Dirt, Driveclub, Such titles) aren't actually spending tons of time modelling cars from scratch, they outsourse it to the studios that specialize on just that, While PD is taking their sweet time to make car models themselves. Also, games like Forza tend to recycle their cars, like even the latest installments of forza still have most of their cars from X360 era and even some cars with wrong proportions from the first title.
But I could be wrong
- 2,985
- United Kingdom
We can't really say what their exact process is, but Kaz always goes on about future proofing their scans - hence the GTS models still being in GT7 (and I believe GTS brought in a few done up PS3 premiums?)
Once cars are up to a future proof spec then they won't need to be scanned again. But I know for a fact that a while bunch of Assetto Corsa mods use ripped Xbox 360 Forza Motorsport models which obvioisly wont have the fidelity required by modern AAA titles, especially with GT.
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- S.C.
- MMXtreme
Never owned an SUV myself, but my wife has, including her current 2017 GMC Acadia, with the 300hp, 3.6 V6. Talk about an unexpected hot rod, it's unreal how quick it is. A hard launch will show you that torque steer, is very real, you better have both hands on the wheel..
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- Gizmohawk-
- 215
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i think the s15 from horizon 5 is the same as it was on fm1
- 50,878
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Does I matter if it's a disaster? Really? In the end those of us that bought it n to the franchise, we bought in to HIS dream. I'm not frontin', I've dreamer about something like GT when I was a kid back in the 1970s. I'm sure many of us car lover's have.
It was in the vein of slot cars and matchbox and hot wheels and r/C cars and glueing models together. Kaz(and other developers of car games) made t happen. Obviously, I didn't develop my own dreams into a game. So, I bought these video games.
If His dream fails, what did Kaz say in the article? It's not going to last forever. If that's how HE feels about it.
Maybe other franchises deal with consumers a different way. This is how Kaz been since the start. He'll continue to do what his visions lead him to do. The Sony side of things will do what they do.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,535
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
I found the SUV's the Devs added to AC where the most fun to drive due to body roll. That was a proper sim though. I doubt they'd handle like that in GT7
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- The Pool Of Life.
It is OK to have a plan, and the bravery to try something different, and hopefully, innovative, but to carry on regardless when something does not work would be madness. And to be fair, I think the plan of GT Sport evolved because of the deficiencies of that game, prompted by the backlash for how little content there was at release.
GT7 is either evolving, or badly planned, implemented and supported. There are elements of the game, Racing to music, the Cafe, Special Events, Championships, Driving School, that all seem to have been under supported, and some of those could easily have content added, but for some reason they do not seem to be doing it. So I don't really have an idea of what his vision is. Maybe that is evidence of ignoring what they may perceive as mistakes, doesn't leave much left though.
Add to that not fixing the many problems people have is having a deaf ear to the basics of making a game imho. If there was some outstanding feature(s) that were taking their attention, it could be understandable, to some degree, but I can't see anything that fits that description.
And then to say that their capacity for new cars is around 60 per year, and to only have delivered around 30 extra cars after release, (about 50%), 75% along the way to the first anniversary, seems to be a weird claim to make. We can make 60 new cars a year, but we're not going to give you that! (so far) 🤔
- 3,052
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- kilesa4568
I've remembered the Pikes Peak Audi in GT6 that I put a lot of miles on since this thread popped up that's made me question things. The physics feels like a step up nowadays so I reckon I'll give them a try to prove themselves.
- 895
- United States
Two things I'd add to this:
#1, the second generation Ford Expedition due to how long they last. I bought one in 2012 with well over 100,000 miles on it and it it still around today. It's a 1998 model, so close to 25 years old now. (In case you're wondering, the first Expeditions were small SUV's built for the 1995 model year).
#2, a sequel to Omega Boost.
One other thing I missed earlier regards SUV's and disabled people. I have severe damage to my lower back which affects strength and feeling in my legs. The injury was from a high side dismount, fortunately my upper body strength is unaffected. I'm 6'1"/185.5cm tall. On a vehicle with a tall cab and decent ground clearance, I can grab the wheel or the oh crap handle, plant a foot on the running board, then hop and pull HARD at the same time to enter. Exiting is a matter of spinning around and sliding out. I could simply sit down into a car but getting out requires some weight transfer since there's nothing to grab and pull to stand back up.
My wife has a 2003 F-150 SuperCrew that we use occasionally. I have a 2013 F-150 STX 4x4, very similar to GT7's Raptor. The older truck sits much lower and is more difficult to enter and exit.
Also the higher ground clearance makes it easier to crawl under for an oil change or transmission service.
#1, the second generation Ford Expedition due to how long they last. I bought one in 2012 with well over 100,000 miles on it and it it still around today. It's a 1998 model, so close to 25 years old now. (In case you're wondering, the first Expeditions were small SUV's built for the 1995 model year).
#2, a sequel to Omega Boost.
One other thing I missed earlier regards SUV's and disabled people. I have severe damage to my lower back which affects strength and feeling in my legs. The injury was from a high side dismount, fortunately my upper body strength is unaffected. I'm 6'1"/185.5cm tall. On a vehicle with a tall cab and decent ground clearance, I can grab the wheel or the oh crap handle, plant a foot on the running board, then hop and pull HARD at the same time to enter. Exiting is a matter of spinning around and sliding out. I could simply sit down into a car but getting out requires some weight transfer since there's nothing to grab and pull to stand back up.
My wife has a 2003 F-150 SuperCrew that we use occasionally. I have a 2013 F-150 STX 4x4, very similar to GT7's Raptor. The older truck sits much lower and is more difficult to enter and exit.
Also the higher ground clearance makes it easier to crawl under for an oil change or transmission service.
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- United States
It would be absolute idiocy to waste resources on adding boring SUVs instead of really exciting cars like Toyota Chaser for example.
Yeah, you can add them later, but only after the majority of cool cars are in the game. Not before. Same thing with this nonsense "Vision GT" crap.
Yeah, you can add them later, but only after the majority of cool cars are in the game. Not before. Same thing with this nonsense "Vision GT" crap.
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- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
No.
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