Kazunori Yamauchi on Gran Turismo Fan Expectations, SUVs, Expensive Wheels, Tourist Trophy, and More

[Pizzicato1985]

We’re probably in the last generation of children now who makes the sound “brrrrr” when they play with cars.

That may be true in parts of Europe thanks to the EU ramming through technology that's no where near ready for center stage, but I don't see electric being the dominant alternative for at least 50 years. The size and cost to the end user needs to drastically shrink while their capacity needs to be greatly increased, especially when considering commercial travel, agriculture, etc. On top of that, they will have to be easily recyclable and use less toxic rare earth metals.

I've been looking for a used car lately and the used lots are filled with ~6-8yo Tesla's, et al, as no one wants to take on the liability of an electric vehicle that needs a near-total overhaul of its "drivetrain", not even the dealers themselves. And since many can't afford a new vehicle every 3-5 years (especially with interest rates where they are due to inflation) ICE isn't going away for a LONG time in the States, let alone developing countries around the globe. Plus there's a general distrust of cars that can be 100% remotely controlled by the manufacturer by a great number of people that value their privacy/autonomy. I've got a lot of friends that are selling their 2-5yo cars (one of them sold his Tesla) and are buying 70's/80's BMW's, Volvo's, Saab's, Toyota's, Chevy C10's, etc as they want autonomy over their vehicle maintenance & repair, and given the uncertain nature of the world we're entering, I don't blame them.

Plus you've got red hydrogen coming out of Japan, Porsche's got their carbon-neutral alt-fuel already in development with a plant already built in S. America, and I'm sure there are others I'm unaware of. Alt-fuel tech is far closer to being a 1:1 replacement to petrol/fossil fuels than batteries. Alt-fuels will take over the market within a decade or so, especially if one is developed that has the ability to run in older ICE engines with some modification, it's just a matter of which one is adopted as the industry standard. Electric is just a stop-gap solution for the near-future, though 50 years from now when 747's, semi's, agricultural tractors, cranes, bulldozers, etc can be reliably powered by batteries then we might see a switch to electric for good.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

About the disability point, I honestly find that interesting and surprising that SUVs can be easier for some disabled people to get into. I always assumed a lower riding car would be easier such as a Sedan or Wagon. Like for instance when my parents and I visit my grandma; we usually take my mom's Ford Fusion versus my dad's F150 as she can't climb things so easily anymore. I imagine the Explorer, Edge, or Expedition would be a similar case.

Though I guess it depends on the disability.

 

[tothesz]

At the momment, SUVs have the same amount of events as Super Formula or vintage racecars, without being featured. Whatever they add, it doesn't change anything in the game and just adds to the number of cars.

 

[B80]

Sorry, please delete. Bit too 'assertive' perhaps...

 

[kilesa4568]

I'm a true car enthusiast too, so much so that I own a car I can't even drive but I just can't bring myself to sell it, and yes practicality plays a small part, but neither of my two other cars need the engines they have in them to be practical. In fact I'd argue that 3.6 litre 190kw boxer engine in the Outback is the stupid choice for that car, but it's a helleva lot of fun. The same goes for the 6.2 litre 410kw supercharged engine in my 30th Anniversary HSV R8 LSA Tourer (the fastest, most powerful station wagon ever produced in Australia), it's just bonkers.

All of my cars are cars for enthusiasts and all have completely sane versions of these cars. I don't think that any of the family grocery getter/taxi versions of these cars would suit any racing game but the cars I own would all suit GT/Forza games, including the Outback.

Spoiler: A very similar version of one of my cars was actually in a GT game.

View attachment 1221397

Things might be a bit different over where you are but we have a lot of places to throw them around...

Spoiler: ...and don't knock it till you try it, they just may surprise you

Edit: These two ex race driver car enthusiasts both own SUV's. Russel Ingall owns a Ford Ranger Rapter and Paul Morris states that his Ram is the best vehicle he's ever owned.


Also:
View attachment 1221402

To be clear, I've got zero problems with estate/wagon cars. In fact my dream cars are the M3 Touring and RS6 but over here in the UK, SUV's have all become nondescript boxes looking like these and are what I'm basing my opinion on. No doubt they're all well built and drive well but they hardly set the world alight with their looks. Now the top marques are in on the act, everything is just getting bigger, heavier, thirstier and in my opinion, way too quick.

I might have come across as saying you can't be a car enthusiast if you buy an SUV but that's not what I meant, though. I just can't understand why a car enthusiast would choose to buy one unless it fits their needs. From what I've seen of their prices, you have a short list of SUV's but 10 times more choice from other car classes. Probably with much better depreciation...

Kaz's comment had me thinking about the Hagerty tie in and his version of car enthusiast meaning people who can buy a car from each class. Something sporty, a 4x4, maybe a Merc as a daily driver and an SUV for the whole family but how many of us are in that position? More to the point, why would we buy one to take it to the track? Novelty value? Memes?

 

[MUC76]

We’re probably in the last generation of children now who makes the sound “brrrrr” when they play with cars. Future generations will grow up almost exclusively with electric cars.

Then let's hope, that Kaz and friends will improve the game a bit.

If not...
The 30 minutes LeMans will be quite nice in future, because

• after the battery dies in lap one after 4:30 you can "race" 25 min very relaxed with 80 km/h
• you don't have to care about changing tires, because there is no rain in lap one and later, when it rains, 80 km/h are no problem even with RH in heavy rain.

By the way then we can buy one of the first electric vehicles (6hp and 12 km/h) from LCD for 20M credits.

It will be great

Regards
M

 

[FPV MIC]

To be clear, I've got zero problems with estate/wagon cars. In fact my dream cars are the M3 Touring and RS6 but over here in the UK, SUV's have all become nondescript boxes looking like these and are what I'm basing my opinion on. No doubt they're all well built and drive well but they hardly set the world alight with their looks. Now the top marques are in on the act, everything is just getting bigger, heavier, thirstier and in my opinion, way too quick.

To me estate/wagon cars suffer from exactly the same issues as SUV's, they're just a bit lower to the ground... and there's no such thing as way too quick.

I might have come across as saying you can't be a car enthusiast if you buy an SUV but that's not what I meant, though. I just can't understand why a car enthusiast would choose to buy one unless it fits their needs. From what I've seen of their prices, you have a short list of SUV's but 10 times more choice from other car classes. Probably with much better depreciation...

We're getting less and less choice here all the time thanks to the ending of our home grown car industry to the point where there's hardly any sedans and wagons being imported at all. Even the small car market is being taken to with an axe.

More to the point, why would we buy one to take it to the track? Novelty value? Memes?

Maybe not to specifically take it to the track but my wife does want to run the Outback at a track day when I take the HSV out... and I'll gladly swap with her when she feels more comfortable.

I think you may also be very surprised at how little difference there is between the handling characteristics of some of these SUV/Crossover vehicles to the estate/wagon vehicles.

I would buy something like one of these in a heartbeat if I could get a new one here down under so flogging one around in a GT game would be the next best thing.

 

[Giz WCR-666]

tbh, i will hands down, 100% believe anything Kaz says.. when i see it working properly in the game, on my PS, on my TV.
until then, everything that comes out of his mouth now i just think "meh" 🤷‍♂️

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

SUVs are welcome, more variety is always welcome. There's decades of precedence, we've had a kei-SUV in GT2 (Pajero Mini), a compact SUV from GT4-6 (Honda Element), alongside a hot Dakar Pajero, the Range Stormer and that Toyota RSC concept I kept winning and selling.
In 2013 we saw the 【Premium】Range Rover Evoque, an extremely successful SUV of confusing size (ostensibly subcompact, yet larger than many compacts) which, like it or not, well reflects global trends. It was fun to drive up the Matterhorn and down Eiger Nordwand too!

I like an SUV with purpose, chunky quirkiness and character, any of the above would be excellent in GT7, but I'd most like to see a Toyota FJ Cruiser, Suzuki Jimny, Isuzu VehiCROSS, Citroën C4 Cactus or Škoda Yeti.

 

[mef]

Kaz is right.
If you save the money you can spend it to buy cars in GT7.
You just have to save the costs of two or more Fanatec Wheels in order to buy all Cars in the game without stupid grinding.

Thank you for caring about people not being rich. Theese are called the "grinding people" by the way...

Agreed. His statement suggested keeping the best way of playing the game accessible to most players, while at the same time designing a grind heavy game economy that hides the cars except for wealthy (or money stupid) gamers who willingly pay extra for cars that were in the franchise a long time.
Kaz is mostly about making money now it seems.

 

[McLaren]

Car enthusiats that drive SUVs exist, they're often a necessity in many cases for families that can only afford one new car. So, the buyer will try to look for a compromise so that they don't have to lose out on having fun, hence why the performance ones exist. Though for the ones aimed at rich people like the Bentayga and Audi RSQ8; that's probably more of the case of someone wanting to have something to impress their friends in.

With that said, I can't imagine myself wanting one over a station wagon. Despite what I said earlier, I can't help but find it mind-boggling for anyone that can afford an Bentley Bentayga to want it over the Continental GT. Or buying an Audi RSQ8 over the RS6 Avant, or buying a BMW X5 or X6 M over the M5 or M8.

Status symbols, really. Probably also a weird internal fascination of sitting "up over everyone" in a SUV compared to a M5 or Continental. Both brands also tend to really market out the SUVs to buyers; can't think of the last time I saw BMW actively promoting a M5 or M8. Those are likely cars that if you want one, you've probably already had your eye on it or a car of its class.

 

[eran0004]

Then let's hope, that Kaz and friends will improve the game a bit.

If not...
The 30 minutes LeMans will be quite nice in future, because

• after the battery dies in lap one after 4:30 you can "race" 25 min very relaxed with 80 km/h
• you don't have to care about changing tires, because there is no rain in lap one and later, when it rains, 80 km/h are no problem even with RH in heavy rain.

By the way then we can buy one of the first electric vehicles (6hp and 12 km/h) from LCD for 20M credits.

It will be great

Regards
M

Including the future doesn’t mean you’re excluding the past. And in the event that there would ever be a Gran Turismo without internal combustion engines I’m sure they’ll adjust the fuel consumption multiplier accordingly.

 

[Giz WCR-666]

Status symbols, really. Probably also a weird internal fascination of sitting "up over everyone" in a SUV compared to a M5 or Continental. Both brands also tend to really market out the SUVs to buyers; can't think of the last time I saw BMW actively promoting a M5 or M8. Those are likely cars that if you want one, you've probably already had your eye on it or a car of its class.

SUV's are only on our roads because Jim* wants a sports car, but Carol* wants 4 kids, so all the Manufacturers make "sporty" versions of family wagons so they can keep selling cars. Jim is happy cos he can now drive a badge he's always wanted to, even if it's a glorified people mover. Carol is happy cos she still has control over Jim. And the manfacturers are happy cos they're still getting richer.
everyones happy!

*names in this article have been changed for privacy reasons.

 

[AmyUD06]

SUV's are only on our roads because Jim* wants a sports car, but Carol* wants 4 kids, so all the Manufacturers make "sporty" versions of family wagons so they can keep selling cars. Jim is happy cos he can now drive a badge he's always wanted to, even if it's a glorified people mover. Carol is happy cos she still has control over Jim. And the manfacturers are happy cos they're still getting richer.
everyones happy!

*names in this article have been changed.

Who hurt you?

 

[Famine]

About the disability point, I honestly find that interesting and surprising that SUVs can be easier for some disabled people to get into. I always assumed a lower riding car would be easier such as a Sedan or Wagon. Like for instance when my parents and I visit my grandma; we usually take my mom's Ford Fusion versus my dad's F150 as she can't climb things so easily anymore. I imagine the Explorer, Edge, or Expedition would be a similar case.

That's not exactly apples to apples; an F-150 is significantly higher at the hip-point than an average subcompact (B segment) or compact crossover (C segment). A big-ass SUV like an Expedition, sure, but you'd be surprised how many of those aren't sold here - biggest one we got was the second-gen Explorer and it was a catastrophic failure, and while I personally liked the Mondeo/Fusion-based Edge (D Segment) it barely sold and was withdrawn. Both require climbing though, yes.

Car & Driver made this handy chart, with measurements of the hip-point to ground of over 450 cars:

Red is the middle 50%, grey is the complete set with yellow as statistical outliers.

The mean for full-size pickups is ten inches higher than for C-segment SUVs. I'm an average sized Brit, and I'd be climbing up into and dropping out of an F-150, and dropping down into but climbing out of a "station wagon" (like my wife's Swace; but then the titchy wheels don't help there), but my own C-CUV's seat is right where my ass is; no climbing, no dropping.

My ass is also, for reference, at the headrest height of a Mk1 MX-5. My actual hip is 34 inches, but there's plenty of ass around it...

 

[redhed17]

“he comments that GT7’s updates are not monthly by design, but that they just happen to be so at the moment.”

It just so happened to be that since GT Sport came out nearly all the updates have been monthly! Mmm, 🤔 really. To me it sounds like fair warning that updates may not be monthly in the future. In reality there should be constant updates fixing the problems people have with the game, never mind waiting a month. Content should be lower on the list that fixing the problems, because, imho, the problems are what is hurting the game.

“Yamauchi states the current rate is around 60 new cars per year.”

So they have added about 30 cars since the GT7 release, so are there another 30 between now and the 1st anniversary? 10 cars a month over the next three months! I doubt that very much.


One of the draws of earlier GT games was people being able to 'drive' their own cars, or many of the everyday cars they see around them, seeing as SUV's make up a large portion of cars sold, adding them makes sense. But, which SUV's will they add, the everyday 'Qashqai' type (size/power/cost) or the 'Urus' type cars from the major sports car manufacturers.

For me, when they stray away from the norm, they should at least add two similar type cars, which they most times do not do, so a Qashqai and a Urus in the same update makes no sense if they were to do that.

Something that breaks the emersion of a 'racing game' for me, is having a vehicle type that is notably different to most of the cars racing, a pickup racing alongside cars for example. Having SUV's in the mix with cars wouldn't appeal in the same ways the pickup's racing with cars would not appeal.

And as for adding new cars, be they SUV or whatever, where are all the latest models from the last few years?

“High-end wheels are fine, but I think we need something that is easier for everyone to pick up,” he comments.”

Can someone enlighten me how much work goes into making a new racing wheel compatible in the great scheme of things please? I don't use them, and have no intention of using them, but if it is not something that takes that long to do, why aren't all wheels compatible, seems to be easily done on PC's.

What difference does it make to him/PD what wheel/set up gamers use? Make all wheels compatible, that is all they have to do. What people build around that wheel is up to the user. No one needs to use a wheel, but for some, it is the way they play racing games. And some like to build a whole rig, but again, they only have to make the wheel compatible.

Making wheels compatible is not "asking everyone to do that", it's a way to enhance the game for a minority. I doubt it will be the same reaction to the even smaller numbers who will have VR equipment, yet how much resources will have gone into that.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

That's not exactly apples to apples; an F-150 is significantly higher at the hip-point than an average subcompact (B segment) or compact crossover (C segment). A big-ass SUV like an Expedition, sure, but you'd be surprised how many of those aren't sold here - biggest one we got was the second-gen Explorer and it was a catastrophic failure, and while I personally liked the Mondeo/Fusion-based Edge (D Segment) it barely sold and was withdrawn. Both require climbing though, yes.

Oh yeah, that makes a bit more sense, my mistake. It's been a while since I been in something like you CX-7.
I mean, I've driven a few Vans such as a Ford E-Series, Transit, or a Chevy Astro Van before as work vehicles, but they're probably not at the same height.

I honestly can understand why a bigger SUV like the Expedition or Chevrolet Suburban wouldn't sell as much as the smaller vehicles. I'm gonna guess it's a combination of being too big for the roads & towns plus the fact they use up fuel like crazy.

The mean for full-size pickups is ten inches higher than for C-segment SUVs. I'm an average sized Brit, and I'd be climbing up into and dropping out of an F-150, and dropping down into but climbing out of a "station wagon" (like my wife's Swace; but then the titchy wheels don't help there), but my own C-CUV's seat is right where my ass is; no climbing, no dropping.

Oh, okay; that makes a bit more sense. Maybe my grandma would be comfortable doing that too, though I don't think she's going to switch cars ever again. hehe, she's happy with her Focus wagon (which is fine, I like it too).

Status symbols, really. Probably also a weird internal fascination of sitting "up over everyone" in a SUV compared to a M5 or Continental. Both brands also tend to really market out the SUVs to buyers; can't think of the last time I saw BMW actively promoting a M5 or M8. Those are likely cars that if you want one, you've probably already had your eye on it or a car of its class.

Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. Just wanting to buy a car so they can look down on everyone around them, though now in a literal sense.

 

[ScottPuss20]

A lot of SUV's aren't that good to drive because of this thing called physics. If they were put in, I probably wouldn't enjoy driving them due to their size, weight and centre of gravity.

 

[McLaren]

A lot of SUV's aren't that good to drive because of this thing called physics. If they were put in, I probably wouldn't enjoy driving them due to their size, weight and centre of gravity.

Depends what you can do with them & what SUVs. Performance SUVs still have power behind them, so many would probably enjoy the challenge putting in quick lap times. Others, folks may enjoy making builds out of them; not sure how in-depth GT7 is, but I thought the Odyssey was an odd-ball of a vehicle in Forza & yet, folks liked making fun builds out of them. Not my cup of tea, but more power to them.

 

[Beadle222]

Thanks KAZ. I love this game.

 

[SuperSportX]

I personally am not interested in SUVs or most non-sports cars but I feel like SUVs and similar regular vehicles should still be included as that's one of the things that have always made previous GTs stand out from typical racing games, you could see and race everyday cars along with rare supercars and other classes.

 

[Canucks_9419]

Misread context and Looking too much into things: The Thread

This has been an exhilarating read!

 

[MockngBrd]

I just want clapped out old kei jalopys

 

[Giz WCR-666]

I just want clapped out old kei jalopys

nothing like a good Nugget race!!

 

[GingerBredMan]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with car enthusiasts liking SUVs. But like… is Gran Turismo a racing game or a car collecting game? Are people spending $1000 on a Fanatec setup to drive Lincoln Navigators around the Nurburgring?

If GT7 had the ability to customize cars on the level of NFS Underground then maybe there would be some appeal. But they were joyless to drive in races.

For the amount of time it takes to scan a car, putting those resources towards SUVs seems like nonsense to me.

 

[OldandSlow]

Car manufacturing is what stopped. Mitsubishi(2008), Ford(2016), Holden(2017) and Toyota(2017) plants, were all shut down.

I feel for you guys there. Truly a shame.

 

[B80]

A lot of SUV's aren't that good to drive because of this thing called physics. If they were put in, I probably wouldn't enjoy driving them due to their size, weight and centre of gravity.

This. Something that surprisingly hasn't been mentioned yet! Surely a big part of the driving experience for enthusiasts is handling, and although no doubt some top end, more performance focused SUV's are ok to drive, they're never going to match an equivalent level 'car' due to physics??

 

[McLaren]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with car enthusiasts liking SUVs. But like… is Gran Turismo a racing game or a car collecting game? Are people spending $1000 on a Fanatec setup to drive Lincoln Navigators around the Nurburgring?

If GT7 had the ability to customize cars on the level of NFS Underground then maybe there would be some appeal. But they were joyless to drive in races.

For the amount of time it takes to scan a car, putting those resources towards SUVs seems like nonsense to me.

It's been a car collecting game as much as it's been a racing game for a long time. I remember "The Real Car Collecting Sim" memes on here back during the GT5 days.

 

[ZedNinetySix]

Nope. I said it was my "daily" driver, work car. I'm a self-employed motoring and gaming writer; when I go to work I go from my bed, walk across the landing, and into my office, or I go drive a couple hundred miles (like I'm doing next week, for a driving event, with something with 600hp). I don't "go-into-town" or commute anywhere in it - it only gets 27mpg on a decent run, and using it for any shorter distances is suicidally expensive.

I picked a car that's fun to drive, fast, and carries stuff (and is a Mazda). It's also the most powerful European market Mazda ever made (until the hybrid CX-60 arrived in late-2022), and extremely rare; the CX-7 is no less an enthusiast's car than the Mazda 6 MPS upon which it's based. You'd have to be an enthusiast to own one, because otherwise you'd just be a moron - and in fact it's been in more Gran Turismo games than the Mazda 6 MPS, as the MX-Crossport from GT4-GT6.

Also I haven't done any upgrades, just maintenance, (there's a thread in Members Cars on it) so I'm not sure where that came from either.


And just to make the "car enthusiast" gatekeepers explode, the "real exciting car" is front-wheel drive.

But is it worth the 3-6 months of 3d modelling/scanning/programming/licences ect to be in GT?

 

[05XR8]

Hmm, not sure about that handling thing. There are some low end SUVs that have comparable handling to cars.

2021 Mazda CX-9 review: High style with tradeoffs

Snappy reflexes and a gorgeous interior set Mazda's CX-9 apart.

www.cnet.com

• Sharp and refined handling

2023 Mazda CX-9 Review, Pricing, and Specs

Combining a stylish exterior, a premium interior, and a fun-to-drive nature, the 2023 Mazda CX-9 is the three-row SUV for buyers with a Miata mindset.

www.caranddriver.com

Engaging road manners.….. From a purely practical point of view, the CX-9 is falling behind, but for those who have road manners high on their priority list, the Mazda is still a strong entry in the SUV segment…..The CX-9 is clearly the driving enthusiast's family hauler; surprisingly light on its feet, it often feels as if you're driving a smaller SUV. The suspension is firm, but it's still supple enough to ride over rough stretches of road. The steering, while not as communicative as other Mazda’s, still imparts vigor that's missing from other crossovers. The firm suspension and accurate steering culminate in superior cornering control.

There are plenty more reviews over various SUVs.