Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage

[Samus]

I've spent 5.5 million buying cars and 1.5 million tuning them (I am including some paints and stuff in the tuning costs) and I've got 1.8 million or so left over

Current estimate to buy all cars is 420 million. Maybe another 100m to upgrade them. You're a bit short.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Current estimate to buy all cars is 420 million. Maybe another 100m to upgrade them. You're a bit short.

That's kind of expected 3 weeks in....

But you are saying the cars average price is one million?

 

[Dave A]

That's kind of expected 3 weeks in....

But you are saying the cars average price is one million?

Yes, so it takes over 1hr & 10 mins of repeating the most Cr efficient race in order to afford a single car on average.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, so it takes over 1hr & 10 mins of repeating the most Cr efficient race in order to afford a single car on average.

And roughly five and a half hours of gameplay (excluding Sport mode and Custom Races, as they don't generate enough money).

 

[Samus]

That's kind of expected 3 weeks in....

Well that depends entirely how many hours someone plays in those three weeks. If they've not got much time and only get 4 hours a week, yes, it's expected you won't have all cars in 12 hours. But if you're someone with a lot of time and play 6 hours a day every day, that's 126 hours. I'd expect to have a good 70% of cars in that amount of time.

But anyway, it was more just a general eye opener to him suggesting that his 8 million total earnings was a lot and will go a long way. It's peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

But you are saying the cars average price is one million?

I actually misremembered my own estimate, it's 430M for them all. But you're gifted a lot for free, so that pushes it back down. I'm still yet to actually calculate that, but it's probably back around 400M.

 

[watto79]

Yes, so it takes over 1hr & 10 mins of repeating the most Cr efficient race in order to afford a single car on average.

The average is massively skewed by the legendary cars. The average cost of a car from Brand Central and Used Car Dealership is less than 500k.

 

[Ryan81]

So judging by many people's concerns, I take it they're annoyed that they have been unable to obtain all cars within 3 weeks?

 

[KJF]

The average is massively skewed by the legendary cars. The average cost of a car from Brand Central and Used Car Dealership is less than 500k.

And how much to tune it up and apply a livery?

So judging by many people's concerns, I take it they're annoyed that they have been unable to obtain all cars within 3 weeks?

Drivel.

 

[KJF]

DELETE

 

[kungtotte_]

You're correct, that isn't what GT has ever been, but I do think having content unlocked in an arcade mode isn't an idea without merit. Though personally that's not something I've requested, it's not something I'd be against either.

Yeah I definitely wouldn't mind some form of arcade mode, or perhaps even a test drive function in the store(s) where you can take the car you want to buy out on a spin on a small list of tracks, to see if it even feels good to drive before getting it.

Or alternatively, a full refund on the purchase price if you sell it within a small timeframe (1 hour? 2?) and don't use it to compete in sport mode or multiplayer (to prevent abusing the refund mechanic to always have the meta car for multiplayer). After the time limit, or using it in multiplayer, you can still sell it but at a loss.

You need to put what I'm saying in it's comlete context, the single player currently is far too short, there needs to be a lt more events.So I'm not saying after 100-ish races, you get to afford a 20m Cr car, that would either unbalance the economy the other way, or you'd have to begifted a car or one off Cr prize which doesn't really balalnce the economy well either.

So I definitely agree, you should be able to afford a unicorn car by the end of the single player career (not at least one, not all), but also the single player career is far too short, so it shouldn't be possible in the time it currently takes to complete GT7. There are also far too many cars in GT7 that are pretty useless, as in, there are no events designed for them. It takes very little time to create an event, I have created a large number of custom events for GT5, and I can manage 4 or 5 in a single evening, doing it on my laptop with the TV on.

Ah yeah, I think we are talking a little bit past each other here. If singleplayer is expanded to such an extent that completing it, and thus earning enough credits for a unicorn, represents a significant investment of time and effort then I wouldn't be against that. But currently I don't think we are there, and unless the promised content that is coming is absolutely massive I doubt that even that will represent enough of an investment in time and effort to qualify. But that remains to be seen obviously.

That's fair enough, I don't mean to misrepresent, but when it takes over 20hrs of grinding the most Cr efficient event (likely over 30 hrours in practice) just to afford a single unicorn car, I find it hard to understand your point of view if you're against grinding yourself.

If you're counting the economy as a whole, then you have to account for the grind it takes to afford any one of the several hyper expensive cars in the game. In fact, to afford every car in the game it will take the average player over 5 years.

Once agin, I dont mean to misrepresent, but I am having a hard time understanding your postion here.

It's okay, I didn't take offense I just think fair should be fair viz. misrepresentation. I think grinding (mechanically repeating the same thing over and over not because you want to do it, but as a means to an end) shouldn't be required for the common content in the game, or at least not significantly. By this I mean you should be able to earn enough money to buy the cars you want for competing in events (sport mode or singleplayer) with a reasonable investment of time, preferably by doing other events you actually want to do. For example at the end of the café menus you definitely will have enough money to buy one Gr4 and one Gr3 car with the requisite tyres, that lets you compete in daily races and Manufacturer's (though you get loaned cars for Manu), as well as several singleplayer events and championships. And doing those races that you want to be doing anyway will earn you the money to keep the ball rolling so to speak.

But once you start wanting cars that cost let's say 1 million and up, I think you should have to put in some effort before being able to acquire them. Scaling up as the price scales up. So you get the Gr4/Gr3 type cars just for completing the game, then you use those to compete in races in order to win enough money to buy your Gr2/Gr1 cars. Or in road car terms, you can afford something in a decent Porsche/Mercedes/Ferrari/Lamborghini/etc. that you can use to drive in road car events to earn you the money for your Carrera GTs etc.

And going into the territory of unicorns I think they should require a significant investment of time to get, but I can't honestly answer how much time. 20 hours is probably too much, but on the flip side I don't think it should be 3-4 hours either. 10-12 maybe?

Right now we don't have the SP content, or sport mode payouts, to provide that income rate. But as I explained I fully believe PD intend to fix that with the coming updates, and I also don't think it's unreasonable that 1 month into the game, the most expensive content is really difficult to get.

Also a point which rarely gets brought up: Prize cars and prize money from tickets. It's random so it's not a dependable source of income or cars, but I think it's a little bit unfair to talk about it requiring so many years to afford all the cars and completely disregard what could potentially be a huge source of cars and credits both. Yeah, worst case scenario it will be years and years with the current available content. In reality though, it's not going to be that.

The question I would like you to answer is why aren't more people who like the economy and game as it is voicing thier opinions and somewhat blaancing out the negative feedback?

According to Surveymonkey, statistically a higher percentage of people give good feedback than negative feedback, so if the userbase were happy with the economy overall, then the scores and freedback would reflect that, not the opposite.

Other sites dealing with statistics relating to feedback scores state people are two to three times more likely to leave a negative score, but don't provide any data for that. However even if you take that metric, that positive is 3 times less likely than positive feedback, that still pushes the positive reviews up to just under 4,000, a far cry from the golden 5:1 positivity ratio desired and still below 50% of the number of negative reviews. And that's just metacritic.

I think people are more likely to speak up if they're angry, and the same with review scores. This is speaking in general terms. And in the particular case of GT7 there was targeted reviewbombing campaigns going on which I think skews the results further negative than they would be for a game that was reviewed purely on its merits (good or bad).

Speaking for myself personally, I just don't bother leaving reviews or scores, I don't use social media, and I think my posting history here shows that I've tried to speak up in favour of the game.

Current estimate to buy all cars is 420 million. Maybe another 100m to upgrade them. You're a bit short.

I was told it was just over 300 million? In either case, neither I nor the poster I was replying to was speaking about buying every single car, we were talking about buying a small number of specific cars, so the total value of all cars is not that relevant to the line of discussion you replied to.

 

[Terronium-12]

So judging by many people's concerns, I take it they're annoyed that they have been unable to obtain all cars within 3 weeks?

 

[Samus]

I was told it was just over 300 million? In either case, neither I nor the poster I was replying to was speaking about buying every single car, we were talking about buying a small number of specific cars, so the total value of all cars is not that relevant to the line of discussion you replied to.

It's 314M confirmed so far, but there are still 45 cars we don't know the prices of. But as we know they go off Hagerty valuations, looking those up, I've estimated the total to be 430M. Of course it may be off, but my estimates of the cars we've seen in the last few days have been very close, even spot on with one of them. So I think it's very likely to be in that ballpark.

Then as I say, the cost of upgrading them is going to run into the many millions, and what if you want more than one of a certain car, for different builds? You're definitely looking at a figure north of 500M.

No, nobody specifically said buying them all but that is a clear goal of the game and the point is, your 8M or so credits are not going to get you very far.

 

[StarRacer]

I believe the economy is broken for the players that were expecting GT7 to be a "return to form" For them it is broken.

I think it's a good guess however that Kaz isn't really paying attention to anyone outside of his bubble. He needs to if he wants to keep making Gran Turismo games anywho, but he's busy doing what Kaz does

THIS...........EXACTLY!!! The real reason I wasted $90 on this game was the "return to form" promises. The "deep single player mode" promises. What a disappointment. And I STILL have never received the 3 cars that were supposed to come with package.

 

[kungtotte_]

It's 314M confirmed so far, but there are still 45 cars we don't know the prices of. But as we know they go off Hagerty valuations, looking those up, I've estimated the total to be 430M. Of course it may be off, but my estimates of the cars we've seen in the last few days have been very close, even spot on with one of them. So I think it's very likely to be in that ballpark.

Then as I say, the cost of upgrading them is going to run into the many millions, and what if you want more than one of a certain car, for different builds? You're definitely looking at a figure north of 500M.

That explains the disconnect in the figures then, gotcha.

No, nobody specifically said buying them all but that is a clear goal of the game and the point is, your 8M or so credits are not going to get you very far.

A clear goal for some people, sure. Though in fairness I don't think you're looking at a figure north of 500M for that demographic either. People who want to own every car tend not to be the same people who want to max out tuning on every car, and probably don't have a lot of overlap with the people who want to buy multiples of the same car.

And no my 8 million credits isn't going to get me very far to that goal, but as I said that's not the discussion that I was having so it's not really relevant. Nor as some others have pointed out, is it a realistic proposition to own every available car in the game (even sans tuning) 1 month after release.

 

[watto79]

And how much to tune it up and apply a livery?

The work Samus has done working out the value of all cars makes it nice and easy to pull meaningful values of cars. As far as I can see nobodies done the same for tuning parts and livery options.

 

[Terronium-12]

Nor as some others have pointed out, is it a realistic proposition to own every available car in the game (even sans tuning) 1 month after release.

It's a good thing then that no one has ever said that. Not one person. Ever. The only people who have ever said this are those like yourself who continually try and diffuse criticism with this utterly ridiculous strawman.

 

[Samus]

The work Samus has done working out the value of all cars makes it nice and easy to pull meaningful values of cars. As far as I can see nobodies done the same for tuning parts and livery options.

No, that would be a huge amount of work. Unless someone finds out that there is a base price for everything and each car just has a multiplier, but I doubt that is the case?

 

[Silver Arrows]

I wish I could post the clip I want to use when people still trot out this excuse.

 

[Matt atkins]

Between now and the end of April

Okay thank you so much

 

[kungtotte_]

It's a good thing then that no one has ever said that. Not one person. Ever. The only people who have ever said this are those like yourself who continually try and diffuse criticism with this utterly ridiculous strawman.

The context of the post you quoted was talking about my 8 million credits and how it related to the total value of all the cars in the game, and how far those 8 million would go towards buying all of them. So it was informing the previous statement that was edited out of the quote, rather than addressing any particular comment someone had made.

 

[Terronium-12]

The context of the post you quoted was talking about my 8 million credits and how it related to the total value of all the cars in the game, and how far those 8 million would go towards buying all of them. So it was informing the previous statement that was edited out of the quote, rather than addressing any particular comment someone had made.

Your 8 million credits not getting you far and the patently false claim that everyone wants all of the cars one month after the game's released have no mutual connection to each other.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Your 8 million credits not getting you far and the patently false claim that everyone wants all of the cars one month after the game's released have no mutual connection to each other.

Hang on... The statement that his 8 million credits wouldn't go far was in direct connection to the value of the entire number of cars in the game.
So trying to white wash that is a lost cause.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

The context of the post you quoted was talking about my 8 million credits and how it related to the total value of all the cars in the game, and how far those 8 million would go towards buying all of them. So it was informing the previous statement that was edited out of the quote, rather than addressing any particular comment someone had made.

Ok, let's get to the point.

What exactly are you trying to defend here?

 

[Terronium-12]

Hang on... The statement that his 8 million credits wouldn't go far was in direct connection to the value of the entire number of cars in the game.
So trying to white wash that is a lost cause.

Which, again, has absolutely nothing to do with the patently false claim that everyone wants all the cars one month after the game's released.

So trying to whitewash that is a lost cause. Nice try, though.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Which, again, has absolutely nothing to do with the patently false claim that everyone wants all the cars one month after the game's released.

So trying to whitewash that is a lost cause. Nice try, though.

Could you please show me where I ever said something like that?
I never claimed that everyone, not even anyone wants that.

So what was I whitewashing?

While your post conviently overlooked this. It's absolutely possible it was by mistake. But there is a clear connection.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Yes, so it takes over 1hr & 10 mins of repeating the most Cr efficient race in order to afford a single car on average.

The real life simulator

If you want those cars, you're going to have to work for them sonny.

 

[Terronium-12]

Could you please show me where I ever said something like that?
I never claimed that everyone, not even anyone wants that.

So what was I whitewashing?

While your post conviently overlooked this. It's absolutely possible it was by mistake. But there is a clear connection.View attachment 1132570

Where did I ever say you said anything? You interjected yourself into the discussion and I replied to you with what I took issue with, and have taken issue with since this ridiculous strawman started.

And, for the third time, no matter how many times you or anyone else brings it up, that (the quote, so we're clear) has nothing to do with what I'm taking issue with.

 

[kungtotte_]

Your 8 million credits not getting you far and the patently false claim that everyone wants all of the cars one month after the game's released have no mutual connection to each other.

I never said that everyone wants all of the cars soon, so please do not put words in my mouth.

When I wrote my original comment that you misquoted in your reply I wrote all of it in a particular context, and in that context I believe that my statements are connected. Attempting to paint the two statements as being independent of each other and then forcing a debate on those grounds seems disingenuous at best.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Where did I ever say you said anything? You interjected yourself into the discussion and I replied to you with what I took issue with, and have taken issue with since this ridiculous strawman started.

And, for the third time, no matter how many times you or anyone else brings it up, that (the quote, so we're clear) has nothing to do with what I'm taking issue with.

OK. When I am told I tried to whitewash the statement that everybody wanted all the cars at once I can't help but read it as if it's directed at me.

I interdicted myself into the discussion, yes.. it's a discussion forum so that's kind of the point.

I had similar thoughts about GT7's economy at the start and right after the downtime.
But then I started playing and realised it doesn't hinder me much.
I can't buy all the cars, and if I want a unicorn I will probably have to grind more than I like
But as of now I haven't needed to do so.

 

[mynameis66]

I mean, that depends on what you want to do? That's a very open ended question. What is the cut-off for "high end" by the way, just so we're using the same frame of reference here. 1 million? 2? Or 10+? I've spent 5.5 million buying cars and 1.5 million tuning them (I am including some paints and stuff in the tuning costs) and I've got 1.8 million or so left over. Even if we deduct the 1 million bonus we got that's still enough for a race car or two. So if I hadn't bought those other cars (that I actually wanted) I could have afforded a pair of cars in the 1-3 million class.

I completed all the menus (though I bought some cars), all the licenses, and one of the mission sets. I've done some singleplayer events outside of that but far from all of them. So I haven't even really finished all the singleplayer content and I still had that kind of money to spend, I don't think that seems too bad?


Kaz also said that more events are coming, and that sport mode payouts will be increased. So with more events (also with higher payouts) you won't have to repeat the same race over and over, but can instead do different races depending on what you want to do. And with higher sport mode payouts, people who mostly/only want to do sport mode can just do that and get enough money to buy the things they want.

It's up to you if you want to believe him or not. I believe him, and I definitely believe in his intentions.

Regarding the high end cars.For example,i wanted the Mclaren F1 and the Porsche 917K what are my options to buy them?Just doing races isnt going to provide the credits is it,the economy is poor and no matter how you word it there is a problem.Im not paying MTX to buy them so its a very long slog to gain enough credits.Theres a difference between having enough credits for a race car or two and having enough credits for cars that you actually want.If you cant see it or dont want to thats fine,we all have our own opinions on it and i will not force anybody to accept mine.Regarding wether to believe Kaz or not will remain to be seen,his comments about not grinding are out there.I`ve had a good discussion with you about it all and enjoyed the points you made.👍