Kimi talks with Williams? - No. Signs with Lotus Renault for 2012

[Sach]

Ahh... that vid.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You know what I find really strange?

Ever since Raikkonen was announced as one of Lotus' drivers, there has been a steady stream of reports (particularly at Autosport) from various people up and down the grid talking about how Raikkonen's commitment and motivtation aren't really issues. Raikkonen himself, Eric Boullier, Gerard Lopez, Dany Bahar, Romain Grosjean, Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard (to name a few) have all talked at length about how it's not a problem. I don't think I've ever seen so many people talk about something they describe as "nothing" for so long ...

 

[Seismica]

You know what I find really strange?

Ever since Raikkonen was announced as one of Lotus' drivers, there has been a steady stream of reports (particularly at Autosport) from various people up and down the grid talking about how Raikkonen's commitment and motivtation aren't really issues. Raikkonen himself, Eric Boullier, Gerard Lopez, Dany Bahar, Romain Grosjean, Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard (to name a few) have all talked at length about how it's not a problem. I don't think I've ever seen so many people talk about something they describe as "nothing" for so long ...

That's only because the media repeatedly asked the same questions to different people associated with Raikkonen and the team. If nobody had asked "Do you think Kimi is motivated enough?" they wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

[Sach]

You know what I find really strange?

Ever since Raikkonen was announced as one of Lotus' drivers, there has been a steady stream of reports (particularly at Autosport) from various people up and down the grid talking about how Raikkonen's commitment and motivtation aren't really issues. Raikkonen himself, Eric Boullier, Gerard Lopez, Dany Bahar, Romain Grosjean, Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard (to name a few) have all talked at length about how it's not a problem. I don't think I've ever seen so many people talk about something they describe as "nothing" for so long ...

I was just reading that today and thinking the same thing. I also noticed that their tone has evolved somewhat about what their expectations are from him.

 

[The Outlaw]

You know what I find really strange?

Ever since Raikkonen was announced as one of Lotus' drivers, there has been a steady stream of reports (particularly at Autosport) from various people up and down the grid talking about how Raikkonen's commitment and motivtation aren't really issues. Raikkonen himself, Eric Boullier, Gerard Lopez, Dany Bahar, Romain Grosjean, Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard (to name a few) have all talked at length about how it's not a problem. I don't think I've ever seen so many people talk about something they describe as "nothing" for so long ...

Funny, because it's the media and people like you who created the whole "Raikkonen lacks commitment and motivation" concept and completely blew it out porportion...which is something that certainly seems to annoy Kimi (judging by a recent interview with him), and probably just turned him off from the sport even further. People like you seem to ignore the crucial time he spent at Ferrari (and how things didn't gel), and how this possibly led to his breif lay off.

Simply because Kimi had the oppurtunity (Ferrari basically paid him to do so) to branch out and try his hand in other motorsports he had interest in (to maybe see what he truly wants to do, day in day out) doesn't exactly mean he "lacks commitment and motivation." If he wasn't commited or motivated for his passion in motorsports, I don't see a valid reason as to why he would come back to the pinnacle of motorsports.

....since you most obviously wanted a response, right?

 

[Ardius]

You know what I find really strange?

Ever since Raikkonen was announced as one of Lotus' drivers, there has been a steady stream of reports (particularly at Autosport) from various people up and down the grid talking about how Raikkonen's commitment and motivtation aren't really issues. Raikkonen himself, Eric Boullier, Gerard Lopez, Dany Bahar, Romain Grosjean, Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard (to name a few) have all talked at length about how it's not a problem. I don't think I've ever seen so many people talk about something they describe as "nothing" for so long ...

I'm sure you would just love for them to talk him up instead as everyone did for Schumacher in 2010, just so you can remind us all how much you don't like Raikkonen.

I find it amusing that you of all people, who repeatedly bring up the subject of "Raikkonen's motivation" would find it strange that team members and fellow drivers would choose to mention the subject. Perhaps because its often brought up quite unfairly?

If Raikkonen had no motivation, he wouldn't be in motorsport. He doesn't bring money, he's actually one the most expensive drivers of all time!

Strange that so many teams have decided to pay him all this money when he "clearly lacks the motivation".

Edit: Damn you Outlaw!

 

[The Outlaw]

Thank you for telling it like it is.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm sure you would just love for them to talk him up instead as everyone did for Schumacher in 2010, just so you can remind us all how much you don't like Raikkonen.

There's a difference between talking him up and reminding us of how his commitment is not a problem. Honestly, the final word on the subject should have been from Raikkonen himself - he said it was not a problem when he first signed up for Lotus. If the team have every confidence in him, then maybe they should start addressing their own internal problems. By their own admission, the R31 was a disaster. Why not compliment Raikkonen's abilities with a good car than try to marginalise his perceived shortcomings?

I don't think this trend towards dispelling the nay-sayers speaks to a lack of motivation on Raikkonen's behalf. I think it speaks to systemic mismanagement within the team, and I think that is something that will hurt Raikkonen more in the long-run than any lack of interest on his part. We've seen Eric Boullier make some bizarre decisions this year, like offering Kubica a mid-season drive (if he feels he is ready), and then trying to find a second driver who would know full well that they could be replaced at a moment's notice simply becase someone else is the favoured son within the team.

But if I am as you say I am, looking for any excuse to rip into Raikkonen, then surely it is in my interests to see the team produce a solid, competitive car for him. That way, any shortcomings in his performances can be laid squarely at his feet.

 

[The Outlaw]

There's a difference between talking him up and reminding us of how his commitment is not a problem. Honestly, the final word on the subject should have been from Raikkonen himself - he said it was not a problem when he first signed up for Lotus. If the team have every confidence in him, then maybe they should start addressing their own internal problems. By their own admission, the R31 was a disaster. Why not compliment Raikkonen's abilities with a good car than try to marginalise his perceived shortcomings?

I don't think this trend towards dispelling the nay-sayers speaks to a lack of motivation on Raikkonen's behalf. I think it speaks to systemic mismanagement within the team, and I think that is something that will hurt Raikkonen more in the long-run than any lack of interest on his part.
.

FFS...do you realize they (all the folks you mentioned) were most likely asked a simple, 5 second long question by the media (who like you, just happen to love making frontline news out of this topic) regarding Raikkonen's motivation? I mean do you really think these guys went out looking for a media outlet to comment on something so unnecessary and irrelevant (particularly to Coulthard & Vettel), or felt on their own accord the need to really bring such a topic up in interview?

Tbh, I think you're digging where there's nothing to be found. Sometimes I think (judging by the hundreds if not thousands of post I've read of yours) you get off more on the drama and stories that engulf F1, rather than the actual racing itself.

 

[Sach]

To be fair, I thought the same thing, but had no prior knowledge of PM's anti-Kimi sentiments.


I'm just making an observation about what I've been reading, not making a judgment against Kimi. Personally, if he knows anything about the current form of F1 cars (which I think he does 💡), then he will know what level of car he is stepping into.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

FFS...do you realize they (all the folks you mentioned) were most likely asked a simple, 5 second long question by the media (who like you, just happen to love making frontline news out of this topic) regarding Raikkonen's motivation? I mean do you really think these guys went out looking for a media outlet to comment on something so unnecessary and irrelevant (particularly to Coulthard & Vettel), or felt on their own accord the need to really bring such a topic up in interview?

Tbh, I think you're digging where there's nothing to be found. Sometimes I think (judging by the hundreds if not thousands of post I've read of yours) you get off more on the drama and stories that engulf F1, rather than the actual racing itself.

There's no need to take things so personally.

I have to ask you two things at this juncture:

1) If these are indeed "simple five-second-long questions" being asked by the media, why have there been a spate of articles dedicated to these questions? And why are they the only issues addressed in said articles? Raikkonen's motivation has been headline news on Autosport no less than three times since he signed up for Lotus. Why would they do that when there has been a rash of far bigger issues going on, like Red Bull, Ferrari and Sauber leaving FOTA?

2) Do you honestly think there is no issue with Raikkonen? Based on his behaviour in the WRC - retiring the moment things went off-script - I'd say convincing team principals of his motivation would be his biggest barrier to re-entry.

 

[niky]

I have no personal axe to grind against Kimi, but after seeing his last season in F1 (and his general demeanor in front of the press and off-track during his last few years there), his brief stints in rally and NASCAR, motivation would be very high on my concerns list, too, if I were a team principal.

 

[The Outlaw]

To be fair, I thought the same thing, but had no prior knowledge of PM's anti-Kimi sentiments.


I'm just making an observation about what I've been reading, not making a judgment against Kimi. Personally, if he knows anything about the current form of F1 cars (which I think he does 💡), then he will know what level of car he is stepping into.

But what you need to realize is that this is all crap based off of what the media machine likes to sell, and what lots of people like PM like to buy into...thus the media constantly ask the question to different people in F1 to get their opinion, so they can go on to make a handful of bs headliners out of what they think people are interested in (trying to understand Kimi's state of mind ATM). It's that simple really. To think these people (especially people like Vettel & Coulthard) go out of their way to bring up Kimi and his motivation is a bit ridiculous and unnecessary for them.

Kimi is an enigmatic character in F1, that people usually either tend to love (because of his raw ability and his non conformist personality), or tend to hate (like PM), because they generally don't understand the fascination around him.

Seismica was the only one with enough common sense to figure out why there have been so many articles where this issue (his motivation) has been brought up...

That's only because the media repeatedly asked the same questions to different people associated with Raikkonen and the team. If nobody had asked "Do you think Kimi is motivated enough?" they wouldn't have mentioned it.

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There's no need to take things so personally.

Again lets be real here. It's obvious by now that you have quite an interest when it comes to putting Kimi in negative light, by trying to make something out of nothing (just like the media do). It's clear by now that you have a personal gripe against Kimi...so I might as well have one against you. Can you handle it?

I have to ask you two things at this juncture:

1) If these are indeed "simple five-second-long questions" being asked by the media, why have there been a spate of articles dedicated to these questions? And why are they the only issues addressed in said articles? Raikkonen's motivation has been headline news on Autosport no less than three times since he signed up for Lotus. Why would they do that when there has been a rash of far bigger issues going on, like Red Bull, Ferrari and Sauber leaving FOTA?.

Again, it's quite simple really - Because people like yourself like to buy into such rubbish (regarding a drivers psychology, and assumptions as to what really goes on in their head) 💡 And tbh, I don't think many people really have much interest in what's going on with FOTA...as it was a bit of a joke to begin with, in that they talked a lot but accomplished little I would say.

2) Do you honestly think there is no issue with Raikkonen? Based on his behaviour in the WRC - retiring the moment things went off-script - I'd say convincing team principals of his motivation would be his biggest barrier to re-entry.

F1 is not rallying first of all. Second of all, you probably saw the headline that Kimi retired then all of sudden put it down to a simple lack of motivation, rather than taking the time to realize that he might have just been saving the car for another rally which at the point probably meant more to him.

I have no personal axe to grind against Kimi, but after seeing his last season in F1 (and his general demeanor in front of the press and off-track during his last few years there), his brief stints in rally and NASCAR, motivation would be very high on my concerns list, too, if I were a team principal.

And I must ask, how do you know how much/or even if you will like something until you try it? Just maybe it took Kimi a bit of exploring to figure out what motorsport he truly wants to compete in.

Also regarding Kimi's last season in F1 - I think when you feel that you are no longer wanted by the team and are starting to get fed up with the politics/media, you aren't going to be the most enthusiatic person on the grid. Despite this, in his last season he still had 5 podiums in a dog of a car and some epic drives (such as Monaco & Spa) that I can't see many drivers being capable of.

With that said, people can question his motivation all they want.

I was just reading that today and thinking the same thing. I also noticed that their tone has evolved somewhat about what their expectations are from him.

People's "tones" regarding this issue have been all over the place from the get go.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

F1 is not rallying first of all. Second of all, you probably saw the headline that Kimi retired then all of sudden put it down to a simple lack of motivation, rather than taking the time to realize that he might have just been saving the car for another rally which at the point probably meant more to him.

There was no damage to the car in the accident with henning Solberg. It was simply immobilised. Raikkonen could have restarted the car and made it to the next passage control, with a minimal penalty (if any penalty at all - time limits are generous to allow drivers to take their time and not break the speed limit). When asked about it, Raikkonen's team manager stated that Raikkonen felt it was too difficult to get a good result, so he went home.

 

[The Outlaw]

Actually, the car got stuck in a ditch and suffered terminal damage to the front suspension.

http://m.redbull.com/op/rbcom2/en/mcat/article/1243095075756

http://kimiraikkonennews.blogspot.com/2011/10/rally-of-france-road-section-shunt-was.html

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Nevertheless, he could have restarted the rally under super rally regulations. But apparently, this was too much like hard work.

 

[The Outlaw]

And those regulations just happened to be abolished a year or 2 ago.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

For regulations that were "abolished a year or two ago", there certainly were a lot of drivers to re-entered under super-rally this year. Sebastian Loeb did it in Australia, for one - he retired on the first day, re-entered on the second, and clawed his way back up to tenth.

 

[The Outlaw]

Please read: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/wrc-scrap-super-rally-system-for-2010-8142.html

Any competitor that doesn't complete a stage/retires will not be shown in classified results. That said, it puts a different perspective on why Kimi decided to withdrawl from the rally.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Please read: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/wrc-scrap-super-rally-system-for-2010-8142.html

Any competitor that doesn't complete a stage/retires will not be shown in classified results. That said, it puts a different perspective on why Kimi decided to withdrawl from the rally.

During Rally Auatralia, Sebastien Loeb retired on Brooklana 1, the fourth stage of the day. He failed to complete six stages on the first day of competition. Likewise, Sebastien Ogier retired on Shipmans 2, the sixth stage of the day. Both cars re-entered under super rally regulations; Loeb went on to score three points on the power stage.

 

[The Outlaw]

Sorry for the late response PM...wasn't meaning to duck you

Anyway, thanks for enlightening me on that matter. I haven't followed the 2011 season unfortunately (nor have I been aware of the 3rd change to the super rally regs. within 3 years), so I've been a bit out of the loop for the most part.

The thing is - Kimi's situation in rallying in 2011 was a bit unusual, in that he owned his own team (probably funded partly or in good part from Ferrari paying him to leave after 2009 ), so he was likely just out there having fun and trying to learn for the most part, not having to worry about too many obligations. Not only that, but when that incident occured (roughly 2 months ago iirc), he was likely already commited to returning to F1...thus it's fairly easy to reason that he wouldn't have had a lot of motivation (after a frustrating accident) to pull his car out of a ditch and get it repaired on time, just so he could restart the rally with a massive time penalty. At that point in his rally career (which he most likely saw coming to an end), it was basically all about having fun...and if he wasn't having fun, why continue?

To get back to the bigger picture, I still don't see how Kimi's short rally career (and particularly the events torward the end of it) has much of a relevant impact on how commited he will possibly be when he returns to F1. I think we should at least give him a chance before continually trying to shoot him down on his return to the sport. As well as being a magnetizing character for the sport (which should be a good thing, no?), he's an all around humble/good guy, a huge talent, and deserves a second shot in the sport...at least on my account.

 

[The Outlaw]

Nice interview with Kimi, talking about the challenges he faces next year, why he's coming back, his motivation for next year, and more...



I like the end where he adresses his critics

 

[Sach]

"I did some NASCAR races in the States this year, and I always start to miss more and more the racing side, to race against each other...".

Hmm...


[/joke]

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Kimi has another 1 off race, driving for Suzuki

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/97794
This should be incredible to watch!

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Very intrigued about the lap itself... I've never enjoyed interviews with him though and I wonder whether Jezza doing the interview will help or hinder.

 

[vompatti]

It could be good. I've seen some good interviews with him, when the reporter hasn't been the boring type with the obvious questions. Jezza surely isn't one of those. But we'll see, it could go either way.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

After Monaco, there might be trouble in paradise as the team are reportedly less-than impressed with Raikkonen. It's lengthy, but makes for interesting reading:

Where he [Raikkonen] might fall down in his relationship with the team would be if they sense he is not giving as much as they are - and his Monaco weekend was not an encouraging sign.

Kimi's driving style requires plenty of steering feedback. He's very adaptive to changes in grip, has a great instinctual feel for where it is as the track changes and the tyres degrade. But that feedback to the wheel in these days of power steering - necessary because of the high degree of camber thrust teams use to speed up the initial turn of the car - is not always an easy thing to deliver, and for much of the season so far Raikkonen has kept the team busy designing and making new components in the search for the feedback he wants. Coming into the Monaco weekend - the track with the tightest corners on the calendar and therefore the one requiring the greatest amount of steering lock - Kimi had further requested a high-ratio steering system, giving greater lock for a given degree of steering wheel input.

The Enstone guys readily agreed, even though designing and manufacturing such a system is a time-consuming business. It drained factory engineering effort away from a lot of other projects for around three weeks. As has been well-reported, Kimi made a single out-lap in Thursday morning practice at Monaco, came in, declared that the car was undriveable with this steering, almost totally devoid of feedback.

Re-fitting the conventional system is a 1.5-hour job and he was asked to consider running the session with it as it was, so that the standard system could be fitted in between sessions. He refused and took no further part in that session - the only one in which extended dry track running could have been made, as it turned out. With the afternoon session rained out, the team was sorely bereft of useful tyre data.

Producing a power steering system that combines good feedback with a high ratio is an exceptionally difficult thing to do. To give good feel, the steering must lighten noticeably as the grip reduces and weigh-up again as it increases. It must do this almost instantaneously. But that varying load has to be transferred from various torsion bars, through the medium of hydraulic fluid working on hydraulic rams. There is an inevitable inertia in the system - and the higher the steering ratio, the less finely-honed those varying degrees of resistance can be. Kimi felt that to continue the session around the streets of Monaco with the steering so dead-feeling was to invite hitting the wall.

The lack of dry running was almost certainly a contributory factor in a qualifying performance from Kimi that one senior team engineer described as 'poor'. His lack of pace in the race came largely from the early deterioration of the rear tyres in a car that is usually among the very gentlest on the rubber - and that almost certainly came from the set-up arrived at amid a lack of extended dry running on Thursday. The team was less than impressed.

Jarno Trulli used to have a hard time getting the engineers on side at this team, partly because he was so particular with his requests about the steering system he needed. When they looked across to the other side of the garage and saw that Alonso was going quickly regardless, they tended not to take Jarno's requests for a highly resource-intensive change too seriously.

Kimi's pre-occupation with his steering is reminding them all too much of their time with Trulli and this time, when they look to the other side of the garage, Romain Grosjean is going very quickly with whatever steering he's given. But they have very different driving styles, and Grosjean's - just like Alonso's before him - is not particularly sensitive to steering feedback.

The team guys feel they have done all they can to accommodate Kimi's requests - and if what results is still not to his taste, then it's really down to him to adapt himself. Kimi feels he cannot do his best work without a steering system that allows him to feel the car in the way he needs to. It's a classic racing impasse.

But it's now down to Raikkonen either to more fully explain what he needs, to spend time with the engineers, immerse himself in solving the problem - or to just live with it and buckle down to adapting himself. Shrugging his shoulders and saying, "No, that's no good," and walking away after the team had worked endless hours trying to give him what he's asked for, really did not go down well at all.

If this is true, then I wonder how long Lotus is going to tolerate it for before they start throwing resources at Grosjean. The cynic in me wondered where Eric Boullier recruited Grosjean simply because his team-mate would be Raikkonen, thereby getting Grojean (and by association, France) for attention. But Grosjean is certainly the real deal (thoug that doesn't make Boullier any less ineffectual as a manager), and I - like a lot of people - think it is only a matter of time before he wins a race.

 

[niky]

Not a good sign. But a good explanation of what happened and why.

I think Kimi will be under the spotlight in the next few races, but his pace should be much better in the next one.

 

[TayTheDay]

Yeah that was a good read... I'd definitely call myself a Kimi fan but I can understand that he could seem 'hard to work with'. I guess he's still used to bigger teams throwing seemingly endless amounts of cash into the mix ...I hope they work out the kinks together as I'd love to see Lotus do well and I think Raikkonen is their best bet. I mean;

Kimi's pre-occupation with his steering is reminding them all too much of their time with Trulli and this time, when they look to the other side of the garage, Romain Grosjean is going very quickly with whatever steering he's given.

Seriously? Kimi's at least showing consistency... even with his steering gripes in Monaco, he still came home with a couple of points in the bag. What did Romain do? Oh yeah, another laughable DNF. Fair enough, he got to taste the champers for the first time on the Bahrain podium but his 'fussy' team mate had the better view from the second step. I'm scared that Lotus may not have their priorities in order. I say; Give Kimi what he wants and let the results speak for themselves. NOT what this excerpt seems to hint at> less time/effort/money going into developing the car for an unpredictable outcome on either side of the garage.

(I'm not usually this opinionated, honestly )

 

[niky]

Let's be fair... that wasn't Grosjean's fault.