KY/PD aiming to high wanting to include damage in GT5?

  • Thread starter Cobra_UK
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I did have a rather funny thought just now. Assuming that we can have a virtually unlimited garage in GT5, we could have as many cars as we want. Suppose we total a car. Would it sit in our garage, all deformed and banged up, unless we sold it for scrap?

Personally I'd keep my wrecks if I can, both for sentimental reasons and to remind myself to be a better driver. Plus my friends can laugh at me. :dopey:
 
live4speed
No, they don't crash real cars to simulate damage, do you think Codemasters crashed Ford GT's and Aston Martins for Race driver 2. Thery create a physics engine that can handle complex deformations and parts bereaking ect and they simpley create calculatations. They give each car part various properties to represent densitry, rigidity ect and let the engine do the rest.

dude, I was joking. But thanks for the info anyway.
 
Tenacious D
I did have a rather funny thought just now. Assuming that we can have a virtually unlimited garage in GT5, we could have as many cars as we want. Suppose we total a car. Would it sit in our garage, all deformed and banged up, unless we sold it for scrap?

Personally I'd keep my wrecks if I can, both for sentimental reasons and to remind myself to be a better driver. Plus my friends can laugh at me. :dopey:
Well it would definately be a funny feature. :) And I guess that unless you decide to repair a car, it would remain a wreck, it's that way in other games too.
Imagine taking a totalled car to Photo Mode. :P
 
Tenacious D
I did have a rather funny thought just now. Assuming that we can have a virtually unlimited garage in GT5, we could have as many cars as we want. Suppose we total a car. Would it sit in our garage, all deformed and banged up, unless we sold it for scrap?

Personally I'd keep my wrecks if I can, both for sentimental reasons and to remind myself to be a better driver. Plus my friends can laugh at me. :dopey:

Nattefrost
Well it would definately be a funny feature. :) And I guess that unless you decide to repair a car, it would remain a wreck, it's that way in other games too.
Imagine taking a totalled car to Photo Mode. :P

💡 I kinda like the sound of that.
 
Polo609GT
...I've been playing gt since number 1. As we have seen, none of the series have had any type of damage. ...

Not quite right. There was Damage option in GT series.

If you've played GT2, there was an damage option in Arcade mode, limited to the damage of the axis on the wheels.

If you have GT2, go and turn on the damage, then drive. Even the slightest touches with the cars, fences, barriers, etc. will do damage to your wheels.

Cars will become undrivable in matter of 3 lighter or 2 stronger collisions. You just have to retire.

Take it as an experiment in early phases of the series, or whatever you want, but it was a pretty nice showcase of influence of damage in a simulation like GT. No later GT games have offered that option. One must ask himself why?

Damage is a very difficult gameplay-wise question in a heavy-diversified game - in terms of general public - as GT games are.
 
amar212
Damage is a very difficult gameplay-wise question in a heavy-diversified game - in terms of general public - as GT games are.

Very well said.

I would have liked something similar to the damage in GT2 in GT4, maybe a little bit more. Nothing visual but simulated. I was really unhappy when I realised it wasn't included. I would have made the manufacturers happy since they didn't want to see their cars exhibiting visual damage. The best 2 player GT races I had were in GT2, with maximum tyre wear and simulated damage. It made for some really clean, competitive and realistic racing.

I do however understand KY's vision. In the event of a realistically simulated collision with even the ability to flip cars it would look really strange to see the cars remain intact. Honestly, I believe damage in GT5 will split into visual only, simulated only and full damage model. I also think that there will be an option to turn them all off to make the game appeal to everyone.
 
I hope they made the surroundings good too... like program every singel object like tyres at the side of the track for exampel. oh man I cant wait for the next game!! but its so far away! imagine all the effects like tyremarks, realistic tyresmoke, peoples that scream and move around and more! that would be awesome...
 
Well I've just seen the TGS GT5 trailer and I have to say it confirms my fears of KY/PD aiming too high to include damage in GT5. Firstly there’s probably been about 1 year of development in GT5 and no sign of damage still. Secondly the trailer certainly didn't show signs of a game that's 100 times better than GT4 nor did it show and ground breaking visuals, sounds, physics or damage.

I think that if we're lucky we'll see GT5 by 2007 but if things go slightly wrong, it may even be 2008.

In business terms GT4 was a success but it wasn't as big as GT1 or GT2 and not even as big as GT3. Since GT2 the game lost what damage it had and it lost 2 multiplayer garage cars races and their replays. If GT5 does not come back pleasing all the past GT fans it won't sell very well. I know guys that have played GT3 for 3 to 4 years and they stopped playing GT4 after 6 months. There guys won't buy another so-so GT. Especially when Forza Motorsport made such fantastic debut.
 
1st off, the TGS trailer confirms very little, does it confirm theres no R33 Skylines just because you don't see them in the Vid, PD have spent about a year on GT5 yes, but up until very recently it's been preperation, coding aspects of the engine, getting the relevent data ect. The car models will have only been done very recently, perhaps the damageengine isn't complete yet, maybe it is but they want to wow us with it at next years E3 or TGS rather than give us eveything right now.
 
live4speed
1st off, the TGS trailer confirms very little, does it confirm there’s no R33 Skylines just because you don't see them in the video, PD have spent about a year on GT5 yes, but up until very recently it's been preparation, coding aspects of the engine, getting the relevant data etc. The car models will have only been done very recently, perhaps the damage engine isn't complete yet, maybe it is but they want to wow us with it at next years E3 or TGS rather than give us everything right now.

Maybe but you're working with assumptions and hopes. I'm working with facts. I've see nothing impressive from KY/PD in this trailer to be honest. I've not seen any improved AI, physics, background detail, damage, particle effects, etc. I've heard of the amazing promises for GT5 from KY's interview but I think facts speak louder than words. I've not seen anything to make me believe KY's statements. After all the promises for GT4 that didn't materialise I don't take anything at word value.

Don't get me wrong. If they release a game like the trailer with just GT4 content, no damage, online and multiplayer garage cars races and saveable replay for the PS3 at launch I'll be the first to buy it. But I'm not beating GT5's drums like most fan boys out there for the next 2 years with blind hope. I don't live in a dream world and the reality is that the TGS trailer, Sony's last chance to present a show stopping GT5 trailer and wow the audience into waiting for the PS3 and not buy an XBOX 360 with PGR3, TDU, NFS: MW ready at launch, is not working for me. Especially when you're telling people they'll have to wait until 2007 to get the PS3's flagship driving game. :)

You can be as positive as you like and dream and hope of a GT5 that will and can satisfy your virtual driving appetite live4speed, if it works for you, great. I'm more of a realist.

Oh and one more thing, you seem to know a lot about what PD are doing. More than press releases and even what KY's said in interviews. There is that assuming again. You might what to let go of speaking with such conviction unless you have facts to back it up. Now I've run into you a few times I take everything you say very lightly. ;)
 
Don't you think it's too early to start getting facts about GT5, other than it's in development and due in a couple of years. I get my info about what PD aredoing frommultiple sources, it's by combining the little bits from each source and interview that arn't in the others you get the whole picture. It's a fact they've spent a year on it, it's a fact games start off in a planning stage and quite often the visual things like damamge and special effects can be among the last things implemented. I don't see any reason it would be different here. Don't take this the wrong way but I don't think your being a realist, I think your being an internet depressive and coming to negative assumption 2 years too soon. Anyone that knows me from the hype of GT4 will know I'm no GT fanboy, but it's far too early to tell if GT5 will include this, that or the other. The only thing we have to go on is Kaz sayiong "damage will play a large part in GT5". I doubt Kaz would make the same mistake he made with online in GT4 twice, he'd get a good bolloking off Sony if he did no doubt about it because it would probably have a larger ht in sales than it did with GT4 where not many people were too bothered about online on PS2 anyway.
 
Hehe, internet depressive?

No I work from experience. I've also stopped assuming anything about the GT games. That way I'm not gonna be disappointed if they don't deliver on their promises. There are so many games out there to satisfy my motor addiction I'm hardly depressed matey. :) but like I said there you go assuming again. Fine it's your thing man, assume about GT5, Sony, KY, PD all you like, but if you assume crap about me again I'll report your post. Mmmkay. ;)

I said it confirmed some of my fears. Fear is not a concrete fact it's an emotion. I have not assumed anything about the next GT5 2 years too early. All I said is that I haven’t seen anything that KY was talking about in his interview or what would convince me that GT5 will be the mecca of driving games. Whenever I post there you are like a like a dog with a frisbee telling me I got it wrong. Then I have to use diplomacy to make you understand that I'm just posting my opinion and not calling it fact so you don't have to dissect it and tell me I'm in the wrong. It's like you actually surf the GTPlanet forums to find someone to argue a point with. Lately namely me. Let it go please.
 
Okay, fair enough. I just thought of that internet depressive phrase and I had to use it :lol:, as for reporting theres nothing in any of my posts to warrant such action, unless you've taken something the wrong way that I've not noticed. I do get where your coming from, we just have different expectations for the next GT thats all. Don't ever take any of my comments as a personal attack though, they are never meant in such a way, but once my fingers start to type theres no stopping them till I hit that submit button. Consider it let go.
 
Sony has a very good knowledge about GT franchise being a key-selling-point in the first-party lineup.

Those 2 trailers were clearly named Vision GT. And there COULD be a possibility that we can expect a game named like that, because "Vision GT" has already became a strong name in various international web-sites, magazines and so on.

Game could come out in a form as GT Concept or Prologue, as a glympse of the GT5, with SOME of the elements that GT5 will consist of. And it is very expected that damage will be the last thing shown, not before the final GT5 code - Codemasters has been doing TOCA's "Terminal" damage model for a 8 years now, and just today came an announcement that they've mastered wanted level of damage in conjuction with physics for TOCA RD3, ready for release in more then 6 months from now. And we all know how good Codemasters are. They are in the AAA line.

And if PD want to make damage right - with strong guess thayy've beeen working on it for some years now too - we can expect it for GT5. There is no possibility that they've not been expperimenting with damage from the very beggining of work on series. And wait for it to be part of the game when the right time comes.

If PD release a DFP-supported GT game for PS3 in early stages of console release, they can count on few millions copies and consoles sold solely because of the enourmous strength of GT franchise. Meaning millions in revenue, meaning more money for GT5 development. And we can expect a bit cheaper game - as GTC and GTP were - with clear statement about that game beeing a teaser.

But both GTC and GTP sold in more then 4 millions copies worldwide - without ever being released in USA.

And guess what? Everybody will buy it. I will be the first to buy it. And I'll have no problem if VGT - or whatever the name will be - will be "just" GT4 on stereoids.

Being 100% speculative I'm also being 100% marketing-wise. And from that point of view, some kind of VGT game seems very real.
 
amar212
Not quite right. There was Damage option in GT series.

If you've played GT2, there was an damage option in Arcade mode, limited to the damage of the axis on the wheels.

If you have GT2, go and turn on the damage, then drive. Even the slightest touches with the cars, fences, barriers, etc. will do damage to your wheels.

Cars will become undrivable in matter of 3 lighter or 2 stronger collisions. You just have to retire.

Take it as an experiment in early phases of the series, or whatever you want, but it was a pretty nice showcase of influence of damage in a simulation like GT. No later GT games have offered that option. One must ask himself why?

Damage is a very difficult gameplay-wise question in a heavy-diversified game - in terms of general public - as GT games are.

Why didnt later GT games have "damage"? Because PD wants real quality. For instance they can put 10 cars on the grid but the quality of each car will become worst, PD dont want that. Same with the online option, it could be in but then it is not up to the high standards PD has. PS2 couldnt do proper damage PD said.

amar212
Damage is a very difficult gameplay-wise question in a heavy-diversified game - in terms of general public - as GT games are.

Yes, but everyone playing GT for the first time tries to crash the car and says: :grumpy: no damage?

You have indeed 2 sorts of damage, visual and physical. The mainstream gamer likes to see their car damaged while racing. Most hardcore GT-ers want (I think) fully visual and physical damage, so if you crash a certain way its DNF.

This is why PD is considering (making) 2 version of GT(5),
1. GT for Boys
2. GT for Men

The damage opens up for even more gameplay elements to be added!!
 
GT for men, thats not on PD's projects list :lol:, theres a GT for boy's being made, whic will probably be a dumbed down GT, less involvment in the GT mode and theres GT5. GT for men sounds like a hair product hahah. Nice theory though, but some men will prefer no damage and might not like the idea of having to buy GT for boys for it.
 
Gee whiz, some people can't wait to rant or something. And for someone who has "not assumed anything about the next GT5 2 years too early," someone sure assumed a lot about the next GT5 2 years early.

If damage and special effects were implemented in the TGS demo footage, being some of the final things Polyphony would complete work on as said by live4speed, the game would almost be ready to print to disk. ;)

"In business terms GT4 was a success but it wasn't as big as GT1 or GT2 and not even as big as GT3."

Well, is that a surprise?

Polyphony’s acclaimed driving sim series speeds through the 40 million mark...

Sales figures from the Gran Turismo series today found their way onto the net, suggesting that Polyphony Digital’s long-standing series has plenty of life left yet.

The original Gran Turismo sold 10.84 million units (Japan 2.25 million, North America 3.99 million, Europe 4.29 million - across 8 years).

Gran Turismo 2 sold 9.34 million (Japan 1.71 million, North America 3.96 million, Europe 3.65 million - across 6 years).

Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec sold 14.36 million copies (Japan 1.89 million, North America 6.88 million, Europe 5.58 million - across 4 years).

Gran Turismo Concept Series and Gran Turismo 4 “Prologue” sold 1.5 million units each.

Gran Turismo 4 currently stands at 6.25 million worldwide (Japan 1.09 million, North America 1.94 million, Europe 3.12 million - after 9 months of sales in Japan, 6 months in the U.S., and 5 months in Europe).

The top 10 software titles for the first six months of the year were dominated by PlayStation 2 games. Sony's console had six games in the top 10, including Sony Computer Entertainment's Gran Turismo 4 in the number one slot.


Not bad at all, number one in sales, after only about half a year. Lots of fanboys out there, I guess. ;)

"the trailer certainly didn't show signs of a game that's 100 times better than GT4 nor did it show and ground breaking visuals, sounds, physics or damage."

I'm not sure how the game could be much more visually impressive, other than add a few details like fully animated crowds and multiple convertibles with the tops down. Well, and working on the hue to make it look even more like film rather than video, which it looked like they were going to do this time. GT4 is already very close in quality to the opening cinemas. In fact the race footage is identical. How is GT5 supposed to be 100 times better?? I can't even think of 100 things to improve for GT5. I have a list of 20 or so items, and might be able to come up with 10 or 20 more if I glean through the threads, but I'm not dissatisfied with the driving experience at all. Gran Turismo involves me in the driving and racing experience more than any other game series I've ever played. And I've played GTR quite a bit now. It's great fun and having opponent AI is cool, but it's nowhere near as involving for me.

Maybe things like more accurate engine noise, radio chatter or lack of damage kills it for you. Well, look at all the posts. I've seen three or for people who are throwing a fuss over damage. My dream for a racing game has never been to be able to total my car. And look at the ratio. Three or four people who insist on damage out of how many hundreds or thousands here on the board? Even if it were a hundred, that's a fraction of the fanbase here. More accurate engine noise? Sure. Better car physics? It'll be there. Radio chatter? Meh. Whatever else your 100 beefs are, all I can say is some of you gripers are just strange.

Am I a Gran Turismo/Kazunori/Polyphony fanboy? You bet! Unashamed. But is it a little strange to criticize a game that doesn't even exist yet??

Since Gran Turismo 5 is still some time off, perhaps two whole years, maybe it's a bit early to be posting fears as if they were facts?

Just a thought.
 
Nobody's criticizing KY/PD. I was just hoping to see something special, something that gave me some hope that what KY/PD promised will be delivered. That's all.

I don't think anybody here is posting fears as if they were facts and people are alowed to be optimistic and pesimistic. It's freedom of speech.

And let me tell you something: If they release a "GT4 on steroids" (like somebody put it) for the PS3 called Vision Gran Turismo on the PS3 at or shortly after the PS3 launch and I'll buy it. ;)

I'm just saying that if I'm to believe that damage will make it into GT5, I'd really like to see something and I thought that it will happen at TGS 05. Since the first GT a lot of things were promised by it's developers and hyped by the media and fans but somehow they never materialised. If this time it will be a feature in GT5 I'll be very happy, trust me. But allow me not to have blind faith and question things.
 
Well, but surely you know how the game is played by now, Cobra. It's WAY early in the game, especially if Polyphony is planning on a two year development calendar for GT5. Even if a GT4 SE is coming out with the PS3, they and Sony will want the focus to be on GT5.

They'll dole out little tidbits and teasers. They'll tantalize the fanbase with the merest of hints of things to come. Just like this video. They'd let some people sneak in a camcorder to leak out something that will make us all buzz about it. Nothing of any substance as far as details or specs. Just some awesome footage of cars and racing, but that will do the job of getting the fanbase fired up. They want our attention on GT5, and being skimpy with info serves that purpose. Most of us will be good fans, lust after their game and either not buy competing games, or buy them but feel the need for the greater game which will be Gran Turismo 5, and yearn for it the entire time it's in development. And it worked on me as planned. That's fine with me. :sly:

Nothing is ever given out early, especially this early. You're not going to hear about technical details, like the quality of any AI, whether damage will be implemented, can we disable it, how involved will modding be, will there be racing mods, will there be weather, will there be a Season or Career Mode, will there be racing teams, what will the racing philosophy be, what kind of online infrastructure is Sony working on? And you can't be expected to hear anything like that when it isn't anywhere beyond the very INITIAL stages of development. You don't let slip that you're designing true Porsche or Ferrari models when the deals to get those licenses isn't done, because fans will flame and rave about it if it falls apart.

So, calm down. Just remember how it always is and count on almost nothing but candy from Polyphony and Sony for a good year, unless by some sort of supreme effort, they're pulling our legs and the next true Gran Turismo really is almost complete. And then you'll be hearing some news on that by the Holiday season.

I'm thinking that by then, we'll be slobbering over GT4 Special Edition/A-Spec or whatever and begging for just one game for sure for Christmas. :dopey:
 
Heh, mate, I came up with GT4 SE a while back when the PS3 was first announced and GT4 was about to be released, but it's just a dream. Nothing has been said and I don't assume it will be released or it even exists. I just wish it will be announced as a PS3 launch title. It would be a smart move considering XBOX 360 will release at least 5 months earlier with Project Gotham Racing 3, Tokyo Extreme Racer, Test Drive Unlimited, Need For Speed: Most Wanted and Ridge Racer 6. That's one impressive launch considering the PS3 won't even have a GT at it's launch, the PS2 did, I think. There's even rumours that the people behind Forza Motorsport are working at a sequel GT killer ready for the same release as GT5. If I was Sony I'd be having words with KY and co. right about now and telling him to have a GT title ready for PS3 launch or else.

EDIT: I'm sure there is worry at PS3 HQ. The XBOX 360 has been received well, is had a lot of features, a lot of launch titles and it will be released earlier.
 
The PS2 had no GT, it was over a year after lauch before GT3 came out.
 
With Damage being in GT5 I be sure not to go over the top at nice angles in a TVR in GT5. But with damage will bring even more fun while drifting.

People will have to re think how they drive in future GT games.
 
I'd assume that there is some worry at Sony, because they are coming to the party late and missing the lucrative holiday season. I'm heartened that the 360 will indeed have at least two versions, one being a $400 enthusiast version with a hard drive. I still don't want one, at least not for a while - I still don't have an X Box, but that's just me. Sony should feel encouraged to do something similar with a PS3 SE with extra goodies and features.

I don't feel that I'm missing out if I don't get an XBox360 with Ridge Racer 6, the only new racing game I'm remotely interested in, and by interested I mean passingly curious. I'm sure that Microsoft sold the development community some excellent dev kits, or they have no real need as the 360 is a glorified computer. And seriously glorified at that, since it's a streamlined system which should outperform the most bleeding edge current gaming PC. I don't doubt that the racing games for it will look astonishing. I do doubt that they will feel as good as GT4.

I've seen Forza. It doesn't look as good or feel as good as GT4 running on a much superior X Box. It doesn't even look like it has a decent framerate all the time. Forza on the 360 should be much more like the game it should be, but will it feel like I'm in the car, like I do in GT4? I have my doubts.

I had company last night, some of my relatives and racing nuts, even more skilled than I am, and I invited them to play GTR. They immediately disliked my setup and started poking around in the options, so I'm going to have to see if anything has to be put back. :sly: But I did want them to get it tuned to their satisfaction. And I didn't dog on it, I actually enthused about all its strong points and just hinted at my dissatisfaction with it to see what they thought with something resembling an unbiased opinion, tho I think I gushed about it too much for that.

And they didn't like it, thinking it was a lot like Need For Speed III: Hot Pursuit. And they're right, it feels and looks a lot like a NFS game, with nice but outdated graphics and an Electronic Arts feel to its handling. Is that a bad thing? Eh, not if you grew up on EA PC racers, and I think that's why everyone who loves GTR does. I did too, since they became outdated quickly and dropped in price drastically, with marginal improvements with each new release. But I never thought that it was the ultimate driving experience.

I did think that when I came across Gran Turismo, and with each new GT, I felt even more like I was incontrol of a vehicle on a road, not throwing polygons around virtual curves. Kazunori is all about involving you in all the nuances of the driving experience, and in GT4, I was amazed at how closely these virtual cars responded like physical objects, even to the the gradual onset of tire squeal as you began to push the car harder around curves. It's a much more authentic experience than any other game offers. I think all of you who insist on having elements like more realistic engine noise and damage or you aren't happy, are involved in visceral game mechanics, not the driving experience. I haven't lived with GTR enough to catch all the subtleties, but so far the only thing that really impresses me is the weather and how the other drivers slow down and manoeuver around wrecks.

I have many racing games covering a decade of game development, and I used to like them a lot. I was a huge Sega racing fan, and I enjoyed the EA racers as well. But I don't play them any more. Many of the PS and X Box racers look nice and feel decently built, but I'm not interested. When I finish GTR, I may never play it again either, because I've come to realize that only one developer gives me all I need in a racer, and Sony has enough sense to realize this. And they have enough sense to realize that they have become the Nintendo of this millenium.

I don't like that fact at all. Sony is a customer hostile company, much like Microsoft. I want Nintendo and Sega to regain their dominance, because as far as a company can, they care about their fans. And they have real fans. Until that day, unfortunately, I'll be a reluctant PlayStation buyer.

But I'll never be shy about being a fanboy of certain game companies. Sega will always be at the top of my list, but one other will hold a position of VERY high esteem. So needless to say, I'm only waiting for one new racing game to grace my high def TV and British stereo. :sly:
 
When you finish GTR???? I doubt I'll ever do that, speaking of preferences mine are openly for GTR at this point in time, it's the most realistic racing game on the market in terms of car physics and telemetry, the graphics are passable and the AI can be a good challenge. This is what I require from a racing game, I can have more fun driving just one or two different models in GTR than 30 or 40 in GT4. Theres a divide here, the question isn't which is most realistic, GTR is, but which is the best. GT4 is more polished, but I personally prefer GTR and starting with the larger grids would like to see GT5 emulate it more, and when you switch the TCS off, for it to actually be off.
 
live4speed
the question isn't which is most realistic, GTR is
Meh, you always have to say that. :P

Oh well, every game has its adherents. I adhere to a different game, but that's a good thing about having a number of game companies giving us a variety of games. Everyone can find something to love.

Here's hoping to a lot of love for everyone this holiday season, and not just because of video games. :)
 
Yep I do :lol:, in all seriousness though it's not like it's just my word. Professional race drivers have said the same. As for which is best, as you say thats a personal choice, I'd expect far, far more people to prefer GT4 over GTR even though I dissagree because it offers far more choices, it's realistic enough by far, barring the TCS issue and it's on a console.
 
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