La Sarthe 24 hours too easy?!

Pescarolo/C60

Pescarolo/C60

63
I recently attempted to race the La Sarthe 24 hour race in my Playstation Pescarolo C60.
I gave up by the end of the first lap because I was 15 seconds ahead đź‘Ž, I had overtaken everyone cleanly and started (as usual) from the back.

Personally I don't think a race is a challenge unless I race my heart out and have to constantly fight for first place, can anyone help?
or recommend a car that would make the race more challenging but yet still fun?
 
Pescarolo/C60
I recently attempted to race the La Sarthe 24 hour race in my Playstation Pescarolo C60.
I gave up by the end of the first lap because I was 15 seconds ahead đź‘Ž, I had overtaken everyone cleanly and started (as usual) from the back.
Click to expand...

Perhaps if you had actually raced instead of not even complete one miserable lap, you would have enjoyed the race. There's more to an endurance race than not even running one lap.

By the way, can't you just use the search button? Seriously, man. One time, I can stand it. Twice, too. Thrice, maybe. But four times is just excesive.
 
Pescarolo/C60
I recently attempted to race the La Sarthe 24 hour race in my Playstation Pescarolo C60.
I gave up by the end of the first lap because I was 15 seconds ahead đź‘Ž, I had overtaken everyone cleanly and started (as usual) from the back.

Personally I don't think a race is a challenge unless I race my heart out and have to constantly fight for first place, can anyone help?
or recommend a car that would make the race more challenging but yet still fun?
Click to expand...

what tyres did you use??:dunce:
 
As others have already said, a little more info about your predicament will help us to help you.

Which Sarthe 24hr race?
There's 2 of them, remember? ;)

What lineup were you racing against?
If you'd got the Corvette, Viper, Panoz, Ford GT40 or Nissan R390 GT1 in there, then they're no contest at all.
For Sarthe I - Use 2nd lineup after reset (Mostly Group Cs and a Toyota GT-One)
For Sarthe II - Use 7th or 8th lineup after reset (has Peugeot 905 in 1st place)

The Pesky is one of the fastest and "easiest on it's tyres" cars in the game, meaning you're probably going to murder any of the AI that show up here.
Basically abandon hopes of getting a close race in your Pescarolo and pick something more suitable, and go fishing for a lineup that doesn't contain any of the slowpokes.

Using A-spec points as an indicator is a good thing, I've run both races for 200 points and won each of them by less than a 1 lap margin, which is about as close as you'll get for a 24hr race with only 6 contestants.
Handicap yourself further by removing precious downforce from your car and reducing your own laptimes (this'll also increase the A-spec points total against a given lineup, the more downforce you lose, the more points you gain, up to a certain level.) Run on RSH tyres too, you'll find that you end up having to pit for fuel before the tyres wear out, but the less grippy tyres will also slow you down and make more of a race for you.
Start with a used, unmodified race car that's got worn oil (thus an HP reduction, do not change the oil), and do not do a chassis refresh as this will also affect the handling, if you want a competetive race you'll need to hand yourself as many handicaps as possible to keep the AI close.

200 A-spec Sarthe 24hr II (Stock, used Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car '98) *Now with Pics!*

200 A-spec Sarthe 24hr I (Stock, used Toyota GT-One Race Car (TS020) '99) Full report.

Don't underestimate how hard these races were, if you're prone to making wild off-track excursions every other lap and losing tonnes of time, don't even try it. I speak from experience...

200 A-spec attempt Sarthe 24hr I (Stock, used Toyota GT-One Race Car '99)
 
Pescarolo/C60
I recently attempted to race the La Sarthe 24 hour race in my Playstation Pescarolo C60.
I gave up by the end of the first lap because I was 15 seconds ahead đź‘Ž, I had overtaken everyone cleanly and started (as usual) from the back.

Personally I don't think a race is a challenge unless I race my heart out and have to constantly fight for first place, can anyone help?
or recommend a car that would make the race more challenging but yet still fun?
Click to expand...

Try the BMW V12 LMR, IMO, a very good car đź‘Ť
 
But a "good" car isn't what he's looking for; the V12 LMR has almost equal capabilities to those of the Pescarolos. Pescarolo/C60, if you really ran the first lap 20 seconds faster than the AI (they start five seconds in front) I'm almost certain that you are racing at La Sarthe II (where the AI are mysteriously slow on the long straight) and with the Racing Medium tires the car came with, and perhaps with a Stage 4 Turbo as well. That won't give you a close race. Whatever car you race needs to be on Super Hard tires and have much less power than the one you're using. The CLK-GTR and R390 GT1 are both good candidates, but only if you want to do all 24 hours yourself, which I doubt, because B-Spec will be much, much slower than you are per lap largely due to the aforementioned lack of speed from AI on the straight. And if you really want to use your C60, then you can and still have it be a close race: put on Sports Hard tires, and you can still beat the AI.
 
Austin343
But a "good" car isn't what he's looking for; the V12 LMR has almost equal capabilities to those of the Pescarolos. Pescarolo/C60, if you really ran the first lap 20 seconds faster than the AI (they start five seconds in front) I'm almost certain that you are racing at La Sarthe II (where the AI are mysteriously slow on the long straight) and with the Racing Medium tires the car came with, and perhaps with a Stage 4 Turbo as well. That won't give you a close race. Whatever car you race needs to be on Super Hard tires and have much less power than the one you're using. The CLK-GTR and R390 GT1 are both good candidates, but only if you want to do all 24 hours yourself, which I doubt, because B-Spec will be much, much slower than you are per lap largely due to the aforementioned lack of speed from AI on the straight. And if you really want to use your C60, then you can and still have it be a close race: put on Sports Hard tires, and you can still beat the AI.
Click to expand...

If he's a skillful driver, then maybe the 24 hours will be easy for him even if he decides to use the R390 GT1 or the CLK-GTR? As you said, B-spec will have a hard time trying to keep up with the AI (decreasing his probability of a race win). To make it very difficult, perhaps he should use a tuned up GT1 car such as the C5R, Viper or McLaren F1? I guess it all comes down to if he chooses to complete the race by himself, or rely on B-Spec.
 
He is not a skillful driver. I can pretty much say it because he asked for the "best" possible car to use in the race of NA cars.
 
I'm guessing that he overpowered the car and flew away from the pack.

I used the Audi R8 stock on racing hard with the suspension tuned.
I did manage to lap the entire field before the end of the race.
Mainly because I was able to pull 10 laps before pitting on fumes.
I was able to spend more time on the track than in the pits.
Most of the other cars were running 8 and 9 laps max.
 
Pescarolo/C60
...or recommend a car that would make the race more challenging but yet still fun?
Click to expand...

Any car with less horsepower or a higher p/w ratio, than the AI would make a challenge.

Any car in the game would make it fun, because you are GT4'ing.
:) What more fun is there đź‘Ť


But as usual, other members have provided a bountiful source of information.
although i will add from the Stock Car Race Thread
snip
Endurance races: Sarthe 24hr I
Car: BMW McLaren F1 GTR '97 (oil changed, R3/R2 Tires, max downforce) / MR / 642hp / 950kg / 1.5kg/HP / 200 A-spec by Vash666
Car: Toyota GT-One Race Car (TS020) '99 (Black used, no oil, R1 tyres, downforce F/R : 47/64) / MR / ?HP (700HP on garage screen) / 900kg / ?kg/HP (1.3kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec by Smallhorses
Car: AMG Mercedes CLK GTR Race Car '98 (old oil, 3753.0 miles on odometer, R1 tires, downforce @ 38/50) / MR / 767 hp / 1000 kg / 1.3 kg/hp / 200 A-spec by RVDNuT374

Endurance races: Sarthe 24hr II
Car: BMW McLaren F1 GTR '97 (oil changed, R3/R2 Tires, max downforce) / MR / 642HP / 950kg / 1.5kg/HP / 200 A-spec by Vash666
Car: Nissan R390 GT1 Race Car '98 (Black used, no oil, R2 tyres, Downforce F/R 46/67) / MR / 712HP / 1000kg / 1.4kg/HP / 200 A-spec by Smallhorses
Car: Toyota GT One '99 (used, no oil, R1 Tires, minimum downforce) / MR / 700HP / 900kg / 1.3kg/HP / 200 A-spec by CRXnut
Car: AMG Mercedes CLK-GTR Race Car '98 (R1 tyres) / MR / ?HP (garage value 797HP) / 1000kg / ?kg/HP (1.25kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec by mynameissport
Car: Panoz Esperante GTR-1 Race Car '98 (R1 Tyres) / FR / ?HP (garage value 752HP) / 1150kg / ?kg/HP (1.5kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec by mynameissport
Car: Toyota GT-One Race Car (TS020) '99 (Black used, R1 tyres) / MR / ?HP (700HP on garage screen) / 900kg / ?kg/HP (1.3kg/HP using garage value) / 200 A-spec by mynameissport
snip

or from the 200 point thread
snip
Circuit de la Sarthe 24h I
Stock R390 GT1, R1 (all group C/LMP opponents)

Circuit de la Sarthe 24h II
Mazda 787b used, no oil change, R2/R1, 132 ballast, tranny 14
R390 GT1 used, ballast 200, R1 (all group C/LMP opponents)
snip

being 200 point races they would keep you on your toes.
 
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Suspension settings, and light driving aids.

I know that the real lLe Mans cars have a form of throttle traction control. Unfortunately in the game the only thing we get is the kind that locks up the brakes at the most unfortunately time which for me would usually send the car into an unrecoverable spin.

I want to say that I ended up running 3, 1, 2 on my driving aids to keep the car in line while breaking hard to avoid spinning. And it dosent bog the car down through the rest of the track.
 
The more recent Le Mans Prototypes (Audi R8, both Pescarolos, the Bentley and the BMW V12) will have absolutey no trouble winning the Sarthe I (chicaned) 24 hour race. The Toyota GT-One, although belonging to the group I mention in the next paragraph, also has similar performance. While you can use ballast weights to make the competition more fair, that will only go so far.

However, as you can see from my own personal Sarthe I report, using a mid to late 90s GT1-spec car will be a much bigger challenge, particularly after the 3000km mark, when the car's framework and suspension will make any trip along the Mulsanne straight and the run down to Indianapolis very interesting. Cars belonging here include the Lister Storm V12, Panoz Esperante GTR-1, the Nissan R390, the Mercedes-Benz CLK-GTR, the BMW McLaren F1 GTR, among a few others. GT2-spec cars like the Dodge Viper GTS-R and the Chevrolet Corvette C5R.

Personally, I tend to like to keep things like this realistic. I don't want to use some Stage 4 Turbo R34 Skyline for a race like this, so some other cars that are included in GT4 that will certainly provide you with a challenge -

WatermarkedImageHandler.ashx


WatermarkedImageHandler.ashx
 
Actually, I can guarantee from experience that the only cars in that group that can possibly win La Sarthe I are the CLK-GTR, the R390, the McLaren, and possibly the Panoz. And those cars require a good driver in all A-Spec. Unless you add a Stage 4 turbo, the others are way too slow to beat the LMPs, let alone the Group Cs, that primarily constitute the AI in the race.
 
I didn't say a little bit of tuning wasn't needed. You just need to find the right car and the right setup that will give you a challenge, as the AI on it's own certainly won't.

Slightly off top, but I'm still quite annoyed that PD included the worst of the 3 R390 liveries.

WatermarkedImageHandler.ashx


WatermarkedImageHandler.ashx


Although, to be fair, the red and black one is from a different year. All photos I've posted have been taken from the lovely racingsportscars.com.
 
Austin343
Actually, I can guarantee from experience that the only cars in that group that can possibly win La Sarthe I are the CLK-GTR, the R390, the McLaren, and possibly the Panoz. And those cars require a good driver in all A-Spec. Unless you add a Stage 4 turbo, the others are way too slow to beat the LMPs, let alone the Group Cs, that primarily constitute the AI in the race.
Click to expand...

I disagree - and I even reckon I could beat La Sarthe I using a non-race car, and probably an almost standard one at that. It'd have to be a pretty hot road (or concept) car, admittedly, but you only need to complete 396 laps with the R92CP in the field which is an average laptime of 3'38.182s - so a flying lap of mid 3'20s will do the job, and more if you can keep the tyres happy.

It'd be a challenge... so... I'm going to test in a few minutes and I'll have a crack at the race next week.

(La Sarthe II can be beaten using your avatar :D)


Edit: I should add that by "standard" I mean "on race tyres". Won't get anywhere near on sports tyres.

Edit edit: Test 1 :D
VW Nardo - R1 front, R2 rear; No other modifications - 3'49.403 on a clean, legal lap

I reckon I'm onto something here - especially if I can generate the "right" (slowest) AI line-up...

Edit edit edit: Test 2
Cadillac Cien - R2 front, R2 rear; Weight reduction Stage 3; No other modifications - 3'39.554 on a clean, legal lap

I should add that by "almost" apparently I meant "almost nowhere near". I think the supercharger option for the Cien might give it the necessary pace (940hp!) to win this (along with race suspension) if none of the rabbits are in the line-up (R92, R89, 787B, C9). I certainly think I can beat the Audi R8 and Pescarolo C60 home.

I shall have to experiment with other road cars which can be winged. I think some of the tuner cars might end up a better bet, but I need to get at least within a few percent of the LMP cars' power-to-weight ratios. That's not easy even with the Cien... But I maintain this is winnable in a non-race car.
 
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This is why I love gtplanet; I'm eagerly awaiting the race report, Famine.
Also, what is the car in your avatar Austin? Is that a Cerbera Speed 12?
 
I was going to make another edit, but now you've posted I can get away without...

I've found my car. It's tuned as far as it'll go - though I haven't quite got the gearbox and brake balance right... I'm giving it a 1 hour test right now and I'm using a bit of a cheaty lineup:

1 Pescarolo Courage C60
2 Nissan R390 GT1
3 Bentley Speed 8
4 Audi R8
5 Panoz GTR-1

And I'm only getting 65 A-Spec points on the test. But I've done two laps - the second was a 3'33.6 and nowhere near as fast as this thing will go - and have an 8.88s lead over that Pescarolo...

This race is winnable with a non-race car :D
 
Famine
I shall have to experiment with other road cars which can be winged. I think some of the tuner cars might end up a better bet, but I need to get at least within a few percent of the LMP cars' power-to-weight ratios. That's not easy even with the Cien... But I maintain this is winnable in a non-race car.
Click to expand...

It most likely is. Having said that I haven't tried it but I think some of the following might be able to do it. The frighteningly fast Nissan for sure and technically it's still a road car. From outside the list, a fully tuned Esprit Sport 350 and a similarly treated XJ220 might come into question.



 
The Nissan is fast around corners for a road car - but that advantage disappears against racers and it doesn't reach anywhere near the required power levels. The NSX-R LM is much the same. The Cerbera Speed 12 is the exact opposite :lol:

The XJ220 is an interesting prospect - but the base car gives too much ground away. If I recall though, it can be on the receiving end of quite a great deal of power indeed.

Just on the face of it the base Cien, even lightened up as far as it'll go, is 4s a lap at its fastest as the minimum average required, before we get into discussions about fuel and tyre life... That's a lot of ground for just 200hp more to make up


I'll post my car when I've got some decent endurance-length testing data... It's fast enough for the field it's in (I reckon I could take the 787B as well) but I need some gas and rubber information before I can draw a conclusion.


Edit: I'm about 40 minutes in and it's actually looking to be a bit of a walkover. We're all still on the same lap though - even the Panoz.

I've changed from R2/R2 to R1/R2 - the fronts weren't even getting 6 laps, and the 6th was a nightmare. It's using just a little under 10 units per lap, so a 7 lap pit schedule is good. The Audi and the Pesky pit together on the 8th lap and the Bentley a lap afterwards but, currently, cars are only gaining the lead when the leader pits. I'm running lap 11 at the moment with a clear 14s advantage, even including a really retarded lap where I went off everywhere.

With the current tyre strategy I'm doing 3'33 laps and getting about a pitstop's advantage every hour, but pitting not-quite-once-more per hour. Should end up with a win by about 2 minutes at the end which is close in terms of a 24 hour race but still a chunky margin...

I'm using a Tommy kaira ZZ-II.
 
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Famine
The Nissan is fast around corners for a road car - but that advantage disappears against racers and it doesn't reach anywhere near the required power levels. The NSX-R LM is much the same.
Click to expand...

Are you totally serious with that? :odd: The Nissan puts out 868 bhp and 1091 Nm at full tune, well on a par with most racers without Stage 4 turbos. And just about kills the ZZII around any track I've tried because it actually turns instead of just giving a feeling of doing it. I must have missed something...
 
Yes - it's too heavy. The Audi R8 is 1.149 kg/hp stock, as is my ZZII (curiously exact) and the Nissan tune you linked to is 1.196kg/hp. Though you're welcome to try it out - and we'll have proof that there's more than one road car which can take the win at this race - for now I'm happy with my ZZII.

Speaking of which... progress report - at the hour the Bentley is the 2nd place car at 12s back but he's just about to pit again. The R8/C60 pair are still line-astern and about 10s further back. Next time I pit they'll take the lead for another 6 laps, but then we'll be back in sequence with each other and I'll have track advantage.

So I'm ending the test and I'll do the race next week.
 
Whistle Snap
I've tried some of those setups and I still get the bounce and smoke down the straights with my G25 wheel going crazy (quickly going left & right)
Click to expand...

You know, if you really want some help here, some details would be handy. ;)
How about letting us know which car you're having this issue with?
What sort of tuning have you done to it? (Power upgrades? Suspension tuning? Downforce adjustment?)
We love to help here, it's what makes :gtplanet: such a great resource, đź‘Ť but we're not psychic, so giving us a little information up front is always helpful. :sly:

If you're using a race car with over 3000 miles on the chassis, it sounds like you could do with a chassis refresh.
You have to expect some steering feedback on the Hunaudieres straight, as it's a regular public roadway (not a smoothly surfaced racetrack) that you're hammering down at over 200mph, and consequently you're going to expect to feel some bumpiness which is what the steering wheel shake is attempting to simulate. The harder your suspension, the worse this will get, but you have to expect some buffeting and bouncing at such high speeds. You don't think the real racers here set the cruise control at 220mph and casually steer with 1 finger all the way down there do you? They're fighting every inch of that straight to keep the car pointed where it should be going, it's not like hitting 70mph and setting the cruise control in a soft-wallowy Cadillac so that you can enjoy the ride and the scenery.
This is a racing simulator, not Grandpa's Sunday Drive Simulator, so you should expect to be gripping that wheel tightly with both hands, ready to react to the slightest upset in the car's balance at any time.

If you're smoking the tyres each time you hit a bump it sounds like your car has too much power, so ditch the stage 4 turbo if you have one, or leave the TCS setting at 1 which'll help to reduce wheelspin.
 
Famine, I never said a modified road car couldn't win this race - I already knew the R390 was more than capable with a wing, stage 4 turbo, and full weight reduction, and at one point I had planned on using a fully tuned and winged Cien to 200-point La Sarthe II, before I hit upon a minimum downforce 905 to achieve the same goal. I also knew about the Speed 12 for the same race. I was just saying that many of the race cars Hyst mentioned had way too little power and downforce and were too heavy to stand a chance against any AI field. Two factors I didn't consider, however, were that PAL AI has bugs at La Sarthe, like crashing into walls, that the NTSC AI doesn't, and that I never drive all the way into the dusty, sometimes red runoff areas. So a PAL player that uses all available tarmac would have a lot more options open to him or her than would a non-corner-cutting NTSC user like me. I'm glad you had (and by the sounds of it, will continue to have) fun with the ZZII, though. đź‘Ť

By the way, I don't think any of the tuner cars are capable, sadly. The obvious candidate would be the practically-a-race-car-already Amuse S2000 GT1, but sadly, the game considers it as having a Stage 2 turbo stock, and a Stage 4 adds less than 100 HP, so it can't keep up with the race cars. All the rest are either not powerful enough, have really peaky turbocharging, or just wheelspin all their power away.
 
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Austin343
Famine, I never said a modified road car couldn't win this race - I already knew the R390 was more than capable with a wing, stage 4 turbo, and full weight reduction, and at one point I had planned on using a fully tuned and winged Cien to 200-point La Sarthe II, before I hit upon a minimum downforce 905 to achieve the same goal. I also knew about the Speed 12 for the same race. I was just saying that many of the race cars Hyst mentioned had way too little power and downforce and were too heavy to stand a chance against any AI field.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, I see... I shall experiment further with the Viper GTS-R then (I love that car anyway) :D

Austin343
Two factors I didn't consider, however, were that PAL AI has bugs at La Sarthe, like crashing into walls, that the NTSC AI doesn't, and that I never drive all the way into the dusty, sometimes red runoff areas.
Click to expand...

The bug only exists on La Sarthe II and I don't use the red bits either - I stay within the rule of OLR (two tyres in contact with a driving surface, never going wholly beyond the white lines or rumble strip where it exists). It's not always possible to be that precise every lap on a 24hr race, but I do try :D

Austin343
I'm glad you had (and by the sounds of it, will continue to have) fun with the ZZII, though. đź‘Ť
Click to expand...

It's a chuffin' corker!

It gives away a lot through the Porsche Curves but up to about 200mph it has the measure of the LMPs, runs faster (AIs never push the LMPs beyond about 200-205mph unless in a draft), brakes better (really) and has a serious advantage through the slow corners - so it beats the LMPs from pretty much the Ford Chicane through to Arnage... Ultimately on the R1/R2 setup I can peg the laptime of the Pescarolo but I gain advantage on my pit in lap, my pit out lap and, amusingly, in the pits themself (I only need 67 units of fuel for my 7 lap strategy - the AIs always refuel to 80 units).

Austin343
By the way, I don't think any of the tuner cars are capable, sadly. The obvious candidate would be the practically-a-race-car-already Amuse S2000 GT1, but sadly, the game considers it as having a Stage 2 turbo stock, and a Stage 4 adds less than 100 HP, so it can't keep up with the race cars. All the rest are either not powerful enough, have really peaky turbocharging, or just wheelspin all their power away.
Click to expand...

I was looking at the Amuse Carbon R, but I need to investigate tuning potentials before I rule anything in/out. I think the ZZII might be the lower limit of road cars though simply because I'm only holding my own on the track and getting ahead through technical advantages (AI LMP top speed limiter, the fact they always refuel to 80 units). I'm looking at a potential maximum victory (without sandbagging) of 1 lap in 400 - a quarter of a percent!
 

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