La Sarthe and Spa ,weather report and other " stuff "

[jrbabbitt]

They still exist but not in the package we use to know according to European law they had to change the packet to something more " neutral" with all that stuff that write smoke can cause this, that and whatever.
And of course must be hard to find them.

Cough cough cough...

Ok now onto other things...
My Fuel Economy Test on Group C cars with and without additional turbos

I have been wondering if adding a turbocharger will either increase or decrease my fuel economy so i came up with a simple but (i think) accurate test for this.
Settings and parameters for test:
A) Cars will have suspension, differential, and aero packages set to my best for my driving. Cars will have RH and Heavy Wet tyres only during the testing.
B) Cars will have additional turbocharger installed and the ECU output, Power restrictor, and Ballast set accordingly to give maximum power in accordance to the 700PP limit.
C) When i perform the test without the turbocharger, all I do is remove the turbocharger. I do not adjust any other settings to make up for the loss of power. No adjusting aero either. For example if a car has 699.89PP with turbo and I remove it and PP drops to 669.12, I do not make adjustments to raise that PP to 700, I drive it as is.
D) All driving is done at FM6 and basic fuel saving methods are used. Not using slipstreaming because that is too variable. Just coasting before brake zones, not exceeding 165 mph is what i do. If I have to change tyres for weather I will not add fuel as all of the Group C cars can do the race at FM6 without additional fuel.
E) Fuel economy is calculated by getting the reading for how many laps left at two points in race. First at the start/finish line at end of Lap 4 and as I am crossing the finish line at end of race and compare the number to see if that they are close. Example: first reading at end of lap 4 says i have 4.1 laps left available tells me i can do 8.1 laps in total on the one tank of fuel. the second reading at end of race of 7 laps says I have only 1 lap left available tells me i can only now do 8 laps. Therefore I will report the lower of the two measurements in my findings.
F) In my report i will list the car, the PP rating with and without turbo, Hp with and without turbo, fastest lap time (if awarded) and any comments on if weather had any effect on the test as in if it was really heavy rain and i had to slow down beyond normal to keep the car stable on track.

Results will be posted regularly, probably one car per post.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Bought the D-Type today.

After a quick test on stock I equipped a supercharger and the racing transmission and entered the race.
First lap: "Damn, I shouldn't have bought this for 6kk"
Second lap: "OK, maybe it's not that bad"
Third lap: "Hm, nice car!"

It's a car you have to get used to but after just one race I really like it! Once you figure out how to deal with the brakes (drums I guess) and how to slide around corners, it feels really good to drive! Economy is good also but I can't provide exact numbers since I was constantly shifting fuel map. Fastest lap was driven on FM2. Race was dry except for a few light showers on laps 3&4.

 

[bigmull]

Bought the D-Type today.

View attachment 1324471

After a quick test on stock I equipped a supercharger and the racing transmission and entered the race.
First lap: "Damn, I shouldn't have bought this for 6kk"
Second lap: "OK, maybe it's not that bad"
Third lap: "Hm, nice car!"

It's a car you have to get used to but after just one race I really like it! Once you figure out how to deal with the brakes (drums I guess) and how to slide around corners, it feels really good to drive! Economy is good also but I can't provide exact numbers since I was constantly shifting fuel map. Fastest lap was driven on FM2. Race was dry except for a few light showers on laps 3&4.

View attachment 1324474

I just posted an updated tune for the D Type you might like to have a bash with.

 

[OldandSlow]

Bought the D-Type today.

View attachment 1324471

After a quick test on stock I equipped a supercharger and the racing transmission and entered the race.
First lap: "Damn, I shouldn't have bought this for 6kk"
Second lap: "OK, maybe it's not that bad"
Third lap: "Hm, nice car!"

It's a car you have to get used to but after just one race I really like it! Once you figure out how to deal with the brakes (drums I guess) and how to slide around corners, it feels really good to drive! Economy is good also but I can't provide exact numbers since I was constantly shifting fuel map. Fastest lap was driven on FM2. Race was dry except for a few light showers on laps 3&4.

View attachment 1324474

They were one of the first to feature disc brakes. These D-Types do have a learning curve.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Fuel Economy Test: Jaguar XJR-9

Without Turbo: PP 669.12 / Hp 366 / Fastest Lap 4'24.338 / 8.0 laps fuel / Did not have to pit because mild rain did not need wet tyres.
With Turbo: PP 699.89 / Hp 483 / Fastest lap 4'17.231 / 7.4 laps fuel / same as race before, did not have to pit for tyres.

Fuel economy is better without turbo in this car.

 

[smoothbore12]

Fuel Economy Test: Jaguar XJR-9

Without Turbo: PP 669.12 / Hp 366 / Fastest Lap 4'24.338 / 8.0 laps fuel / Did not have to pit because mild rain did not need wet tyres.
With Turbo: PP 699.89 / Hp 483 / Fastest lap 4'17.231 / 7.4 laps fuel / same as race before, did not have to pit for tyres.

Fuel economy is better without turbo in this car.

Are you manual shifting or AT gears ?

 

[jrbabbitt]

Are you manual shifting or AT gears ?

I have to use AT, I have some dexterity issues and cannot use the manual shift without cocking it up some

 

[bigmull]

I would love to see a NASCAR car ingame.There was one that took part in the Le Mans 24 hr.It was a Camero that had been adapted for the race.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Fuel economy test: Sauber Mercedes C9

Without Turbo: PP 659.09 / Hp 367 / Fastest Lap 4'24.997/ 8.0 laps fuel / Did not pit because mild rain did not need wet tyres. Drive was slow as I could barely get above 160 @ FM6, didn't pass P1 until the beginning of lap 3

In screenshot above you can see in the before/after numbers on left side.

With Turbo: PP 698.77 / Hp 510 / Fastest lap 4'21.333 / 7 laps fuel / Changed to IMs at end of lap 2 but no fuel added, rain accumulation was at high stage 2. Changed back to RH at end of lap 5.

 

[smoothbore12]

Fuel economy test: Sauber Mercedes C9

Without Turbo: PP 659.09 / Hp 367 / Fastest Lap 4'24.997/ 8.0 laps fuel / Did not pit because mild rain did not need wet tyres. Drive was slow as I could barely get above 160 @ FM6, didn't pass P1 until the beginning of lap 3
View attachment 1324983
In screenshot above you can see in the before/after numbers on left side.

With Turbo: PP 698.77 / Hp 510 / Fastest lap 4'21.333 / 7 laps fuel / Changed to IMs at end of lap 2 but no fuel added, rain accumulation was at high stage 2. Changed back to RH at end of lap 5.

Too much weight with 200 kilos of ballast that's why lower top end speed.

Not that is from the faster group C cars in 700pp configuration .
Perhaps you should run them with and without turbo but at same range of pp.

 

[GlockPants]

One of the annoying things about playing in VR is a lack of information on the HUD.

For example, if a Yellow Flag is active, you must rely on the trackside stewards to wave a flag or flash a light.

Well, I ran into this today ...



The first steward is easy to decipher. Yellow Flag, Yellow Board. The second, however, Yellow Board, Green Flag.

You can tell from the video, I slow down coming up on traffic ahead. The Aston Martin has recovered, and I'm thinking "Ok, green flag. Probably fine to pass."

WRONG! Bye bye CRB ...

 

[jrbabbitt]

Perhaps you should run them with and without turbo but at same range of pp.

I am trying to find out if the turbo alone has an effect on fuel mileage, if I adjust other things to get the PP numbers it changes the configuration and power output settings that does affect fuel mileage.
So basically the only thing that changes is the turbo installation and I can see the difference in fuel mileage that can be attributed to that installation or removal.
I take test car with turbo and set it up at PP max 700 (or so), do a race and see what fuel mileage is then take turbo out and NOT changing anything else to see what the fuel mileage is without the turbo.
I know it will be slow without the turbo but I'm looking to do the tests with only the one variable, the turbo.

 

[bigmull]

I am trying to find out if the turbo alone has an effect on fuel mileage, if I adjust other things to get the PP numbers it changes the configuration and power output settings that does affect fuel mileage.
So basically the only thing that changes is the turbo installation and I can see the difference in fuel mileage that can be attributed to that installation or removal.
I take test car with turbo and set it up at PP max 700 (or so), do a race and see what fuel mileage is then take turbo out and NOT changing anything else to see what the fuel mileage is without the turbo.
I know it will be slow without the turbo but I'm looking to do the tests with only the one variable, the turbo.

Turbos do indeed have an effect on fuel consumption.The mid range can use more fuel than the high range turbo as it kicks in at lower revs and is “active” for longer,hence more fuel usage,this also applies to superchargers.For Le Mans which has nice long straights I tend to go for the high range turbos.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

One of the annoying things about playing in VR is a lack of information on the HUD.

For example, if a Yellow Flag is active, you must rely on the trackside stewards to wave a flag or flash a light.

Well, I ran into this today ...



The first steward is easy to decipher. Yellow Flag, Yellow Board. The second, however, Yellow Board, Green Flag.

You can tell from the video, I slow down coming up on traffic ahead. The Aston Martin has recovered, and I'm thinking "Ok, green flag. Probably fine to pass."

WRONG! Bye bye CRB ...

A radio would be a nice addition! Other games have this. I saw a video recently where the guy on the radio told the driver "Yellow flag at sector three, be careful!". Can't remember if it was ACC or iRacing.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Too much weight with 200 kilos of ballast that's why lower top end speed.

Not that is from the faster group C cars in 700pp configuration .
Perhaps you should run them with and without turbo but at same range of pp.

I've just run a modified @praiano63 800pp tune at 700pp with a turbo fitted. Once I removed it and reduced weight and dialled back engine to get me back to 700pp. It would do exactly 7 laps and my fastest lap was a 4:08 but I missed out on an eight lapper by 1.119 seconds. Someone faster than me would get the eight laps with a pitstop.

 

[smoothbore12]

I've just run a modified @praiano63 800pp tune at 700pp with a turbo fitted. Once I removed it and reduced weight and dialled back engine to get me back to 700pp. It would do exactly 7 laps and my fastest lap was a 4:08 but I missed out on an eight lapper by 1.119 seconds. Someone faster than me would get the eight laps with a pitstop.

I think at FM6 does exactly 7 laps on AT gears without stop.
With one pit stop and FM1 or more, 8 laps isn't a problem .
At 700pp configuration,lack in power against the big guns in his category.
With 30hp more could be different but is a good car anyway.

Yesterday i run the two Alfa in swap mode , the road car gr3 and the normal C14 which proved better since at every group 3 road car you can't remove weight and they are fuel eaters .

 

[Sir Crashalot]

I will chime in on @jrbabbitt 's Group C test, I wanted to drive and compare them anyway.
But I will do it differently and drive 'em on FM1 since I barely get any dry races anyway.

First is the Sauber. My settings:

Already had to pit at the end of 2nd because rain was showing up on the radar.
Car is rather easy to drive but suffers from massive understeering. Feels like a boat through corners. Had penalties on almost every lap because of this. Top speed (before 1st chicane on Mulsanne) was ~300km/h. Brakes are good! Traction on wet is also good, no need to adjust TCS (my default is 1). Sound is not spectacular but good. The reflection of the cockpit in the windscreen is a bit annoying.
Economy is pretty good! After my pitstop I did 5 laps and just had to switch to FM2 for the last lap. So you get ~4.5 laps on FM1.
Fastest lap was on IMs.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Had an interesting situation, I got my car ready and went to LeMans, clicked on the race, entered it but not paying full attention, started race as i was setting the FM to 6 I noticed that the other cars were really further ahead more than usual and as I was passing a few i then noticed that there were different cars and a few different names, looking around the screen i see that i entered the WTC800 5 lap race by mistake. In a Porsche 962 at FM6 i easily completed the race without a pitstop, was a little different compared to the Gr.3 cars on track. I won the race but only got 160,000 instead of the usual 825,000.

 

[smoothbore12]

,..................

Car is rather easy to drive but suffers from massive understeering. Feels like a boat through corners. Had penalties on almost every lap because of this......

View attachment 1325489

You have very high value in LCD breaking sensitivity and doesn't allow to rotate freely.
The majority of them, doesn't need more than 5 at least at that track and 700pp settings.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

You have very high value in LCD breaking sensitivity and doesn't allow to rotate freely.
The majority of them, doesn't need more than 5 at least at that track and 700pp settings.

You think that's the reason for the understeer?
My plan was to not change any settings since those cars should be set up perfectly for Le Mans but ofc the extra weight on the front axle could effect things.🤔
I think I will try the Jag this evening and see if it's the same there. I didn't drive those Group C cars much yet, just one or two laps fully stock in TT when I bought them and AFAIR the Jag was a much more "lively" car than the Sauber.

 

[AlexWilmot]

You think that's the reason for the understeer?

Could be one of them,
Other things id change in your setup before touching the Diff would be:

• Decrease Front ARB & increase rear ARB
• Decrease Front natural freq & increase rear natural freq

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Could be one of them,
Other things id change in your setup before touching the Diff would be:

• Decrease Front ARB & increase rear ARB
• Decrease Front natural freq & increase rear natural freq

Hmmmm, this is getting complicated....

Don't get me wrong, no criticism, I'm thankful for things like this since I'm still not very good at tuning.
It's just that it makes a "quick test" a lot more complicated than one thought it would be.
I really wish there was a 1000PP race with a similar payout so you could drive all those Group C and LMP1 cars in all their glory.

So what would would you guys suggest?

ARB -1/+1
Frequency -10/+10
LSD 5/15/10

Would those settings be ok for all the Group C cars? Or would they all need different settings?

 

[AlexWilmot]

So what would would you guys suggest?

ARB -1/+1
Frequency -10/+10

I would suggest to just do this for the moment

Would those settings be ok for all the Group C cars? Or would they all need different settings?

exact settings probably not, similar settings probably yes?

The thing is to identify what the car is doing:

• under braking
• release brakes and turn in
• turn in after braking
• mid corner
• corner exit on throttle

And adjust the settings that affect those specific areas, all while considering the weight transfer of the car in those phases

For the Sauber C9 around LeMans, this works alright for me:

Spoiler: Tune

 

[Sir Crashalot]

I would suggest to just do this for the moment

exact settings probably not, similar settings probably yes?

The thing is to identify what the car is doing:

• under braking
• release brakes and turn in
• turn in after braking
• mid corner
• corner exit on throttle

And adjust the settings that affect those specific areas, all while considering the weight transfer of the car in those phases

For the Sauber C9 around LeMans, this works alright for me:

Spoiler: Tune

View attachment 1325597View attachment 1325598

I see. The good old "trial & error " method. Have to postpone my testing then, unfortunately don't have time for this atm. Or maybe I just do a few laps with each car in TT. We'll see.
Thx again and thx for sharing your tune!

 

[AlexWilmot]

I see. The good old "trial & error " method. Have to postpone my testing then, unfortunately don't have time for this atm. Or maybe I just do a few laps with each car in TT. We'll see.
Thx again and thx for sharing your tune!

Well trial and error by how much to adjust by.
Tthe above took 30min

 

[Sir Crashalot]

Has anyone experienced any differences in driving in heavy rain with intermediates since the last update? I had 2 or 3 races since where I had a bit of aquaplaning and I can't remember ever having this before. I drive almost always different cars so I thought it's somehow connected to the specific cars I drove but today I saw that someone mentioned this on the "undocumented changes" thread also.

 

[bigmull]

Has anyone experienced any differences in driving in heavy rain with intermediates since the last update? I had 2 or 3 races since where I had a bit of aquaplaning and I can't remember ever having this before. I drive almost always different cars so I thought it's somehow connected to the specific cars I drove but today I saw that someone mentioned this on the "undocumented changes" thread also.

I have noticed that RI and full wets don’t perform as well as they used to do when one their first lap after they do get better but if it’s actually raining then they do aquaplane.Personally I think they have over done it in the last update,I have had cars in the lead with a very wet track still on non wets out performing me while I am running RI or full wets.

 

[smoothbore12]

Aquaplaning i haven't see it again after 1.31 update .
Although some road cars ( i don't remember specific now ) have the tendency to loose it over higher speeds at rain with the slightest touch of the steering whell .

 

[bigmull]

Aquaplaning i haven't see it again after 1.31 update .
Although some road cars ( i don't remember specific now ) have the tendency to loose it over higher speeds at rain with the slightest touch of the steering whell .

I should think it’s more likely to be cars with little or no aero and skinny tyres. Have been caught out on the Porsche Curves even with less than 50% moisture.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

For me it was just on the straights with no active steering. At high speed the car just suddenly started to go sideways. But it was catchable by releasing the throttle and a bit of counter steering. I will post a clip next time this happens.