La Sarthe and Spa ,weather report and other " stuff "

[Aloha62_2]

Here is a challenge...

Try to win that race with a Volvo 240, tuned up to the max...

I say, it is impossible....(on hard difficulty that is)

Not impossible, but requires gaming the weather.

Used racing soft tyres for two flat out FM1 laps, then pit for inters for the usual start of rain. And then managed two flat out laps on softs once a dry line formed, the AI was gaining but not quickly enough.

If it doesn't rain restart the race.

Took me ~6 attempts, the car isn't fast enough without a rapid weather change, and the weather is random so it's a bit frustrating. Also 1.49 caused some weird handling where every now and then the car would want to spin while braking in a straight-line.

 

[smoothbore12]

Not impossible, but requires gaming the weather.

Used racing soft tyres for two flat out FM1 laps, then pit for inters for the usual start of rain. And then managed two flat out laps on softs once a dry line formed, the AI was gaining but not quickly enough.

If it doesn't rain restart the race.

Took me ~6 attempts, the car isn't fast enough without a rapid weather change, and the weather is random so it's a bit frustrating. Also 1.49 caused some weird handling where every now and then the car would want to spin while braking in a straight-line.

I guess to win that under certain circumstances, you need all the conspiracy universe can bring 😂 .
Brakes are really a matter after 1.49 update, also seems that cars need more early braking than before or at least this is what i notice lately.

 

[kartrcr08]

Crucial factors also are :
1 )To know your car fuel consumption and that needs testing.

2) have the right strategy if rain is about to come .

3) avoid overreacting that cause costly errors or penalties.

Great points! For fuel consumption what I've found so far with the stock Gr.4, all the cars I've tested can go 3 laps at FM3 or less with MT, one exception was the Alpha 4C that one stopped on FM1. The fuel strategy that I've adopted is if the car can't do 3 laps at FM1, which is ideal, then I plan on a 3-2-2 pit strat. The first laps might be a little slower but you push the other two stints at FM1. The 3-2-2 plays well with the most common weather patterns too.

 

[jrbabbitt]

The only STOCK rule is power and gearbox, everything else can be tuned

Ok, I am very intrigued by this idea and decided to put aside my initial test program.
So I grabbed the first group, 4 car, I saw in my garage, and it was the veyron.
I didn't Read carefully that everything but power and gearbox could be tuned.So I ran this one on stock suspension settings also.
My driving skills are not the best but I gave it a try at normal setting and failed four times, Each time I tried at normal, everybody was running away from me and I could not gain any ground without being punished With low Fuel mileage, so that being said, I reverted back two easy setting and gave it a shot again.
I did finally score a victory with only twenty two seconds between me and p two, which was the viper.
I will continue on going through all of my Gr.4 cars in alphabetical order, starting with the Alfas

I did start out at FM 3 and was getting 3 laps.
After the pit stop, I went into fuel saving mode after I gained the lead.
The RH tyres lasted completely whole race as I was lucky to have dry one today, popped in at lap 6 for splash of fuel to finish the 7th lap.

 

[smoothbore12]

Yesterday put some laps with various gr4 cars.
Did only the first two laps to see if am gaining on leaders .
With any of them couldn't gain time and that's perhaps to low hp ( around 400 plus ) that they have .
Veyron Ferrari, mazda and another one i can't remember right now.
Didn't waist more time to finish any race or wait the rain to be helpful with me etc.
The only cars i found till now are the Citroen and AMG that can do the job easy , also didn't test the viper which is obvious ( according to @kartrcr08 )that can do the trick .
Judging from the run on AMG with 440 hp ,lower than that its a gamble and am not even close to get support from car performance to continue or waiting for rain to save me.

 

[kartrcr08]

Yesterday put some laps with various gr4 cars.
Did only the first two laps to see if am gaining on leaders .

The first two laps do tell a story. We know the AI pace is 4:20 +/- 2 seconds, so if the first 2 laps aren't near 4:20 then hope for rain. The sub 4:20 stock Gr.4 I've found so far, all with stock suspension settings;
Corvette C7
NSX
Huracan
Alpha 155 4:08 fast lap!
Mclaren 650S gets my vote for best handling car
G70
Silvia spec R
458 Italia
Viper
Haven't tested any of the FF cars cause FF, never driven any of them and don't plan to.

 

[smoothbore12]

The first two laps do tell a story. We know the AI pace is 4:20 +/- 2 seconds, so if the first 2 laps aren't near 4:20 then hope for rain. The sub 4:20 stock Gr.4 I've found so far, all with stock suspension settings;
Corvette C7
NSX
Huracan
Alpha 155 4:08 fast lap!
Mclaren 650S gets my vote for best handling car
G70
Silvia spec R
458 Italia
Viper
Haven't tested any of the FF cars cause FF, never driven any of them and don't plan to.

I found something better ( i guess ).
Am taking EVERY gr4 car for 3 trial laps at FULL dead stock condition equipped with RM tyres .
Aim is after first lap that need to get the feeling of the car and brakes ( which sucks after 1.49 ) to pass my ghost at 3rd lap whatever it takes and if made a serious mistake to have and 4th one.
Also i use two ghosts,mine and the uploaded one that i think is close to what i try each time.


So far i run 5 of them.
Tomorrow hope to be 10 and present the stock outcome with FM1 of course but it's Definitely an indication of what the car can do and tweaking suspension and aero things might get better .

Don't know if the Alfa is at that group with the modern era cars 🤔 .

 

[smoothbore12]

Well my ( non paid unfortunately) work for today.
9 cars
Stock
RM tyres
Mazda , Renault are slower than Veyron as Alfa C4 is and just aboard the mission.

Don't know how many left yet .
Might try them tomorrow.
Huracan was the faster but still fuel consumption is a matter that someone have to consider in each car.
But seems very likely that fast cars remains fast even on higher fuel saving mod than others in FM1 .
Also the behaviour in rain can change dramatically in a twitchy difficult car making things worst but am not willing to find out .

 

[kartrcr08]

Don't know if the Alfa is at that group with the modern era cars 🤔 .

Yeah it's too good to be a real Group 4 but it is fun!

 

[05XR8]

Been using the K24 Civic TC at Tokyo and now Le Mans. Just over four minute lap times on RM. Had lots of heavy rain, but it's been pretty sturdy with Carbon rotors(left the pads stock).
Did one race with stock suspension, but switched to Full Custom suspension ride height 70 F/R at 4.40hz F/R, stock camber with 17" Pokal R5s. Just love the look in replays.

600 BHP on the RMs still just over 600 PP.

 

[Batschisane52]

I gave the Group 4 challenge a try and used the Jaguar(almost stock, fully adjustable gearbox, normal difficulty)started on RH,planning a 3-2-2 strategy, didnt't gain or loose much on the first two laps(top car , the Viper,was about 18 seconds in ahead of me, but saw rain approaching in the final quarter of lap 2,changed my plans decided to switch to IMs...got heavy rain from my pit exit until lap 5, stayed in IMs until the end and had an easy win...

Don't think, I would have wo that race in a completely dry race...

 

[kartrcr08]

What I've learned from the stock Group 4 challenge. There's a lot of Gr.4 cars! The original question was how many stock Gr.4 cars could win on normal mode, short answer, all of them, with varying levels of difficulty. All the Gr.4's can win a rain race, albeit with perfect strategy and even then winning is not a given. All of my testing was RM, stock everything and max down force, I found the down force helped more with braking stability than a few more KPH. In general if the PP with RM and max down force is at or above 650, the car can win in any conditions, not easily but possible. The only "easy" win I had was the Alpha 155 and it's really more of a Gr. 3.5. My biggest takeaway was how well the Gr.4 cars drove totally stock, especially the mid engine cars! Super fun close racing, the largest margin of victory in the dry was maybe 10 seconds! And no I didn't do a full race in every car.

 

[05XR8]

Indeed there are plenty Gr.4 cars. Thing is, the races should randomly rotate cars each time we enter. The poor old Hyundai Genesis sits unused by the AI. Don’t get to see all the FF Gr.4 cars racing together.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Ok now I am not stupid but we all have been overwhelmed and such with the physics update, but I do recall in one of the recent updates there was mention of the artificial idiots having better stability in wet conditions. Well it is true, someone taught or reprogrammed the digital drivers how to slow down when it rains and not go stupidly sliding into the barriers and off into the gravel.
Since I have been extensively been testing and driving the Le Mans race since the update I have not seen the digital drivers driving stupidly, they will slow down when they are not equipped with wet or IM tyres.
Has anyone seen otherwise?

 

[AlexWilmot]

Had a completely dry race, this car is pretty good at 700 & 800pp

 

[Meythia]

Cant use this car on Tokyo anymore, and today I though "whatever"

Didnt try to time that finish, it just happened to almost match (with dry weather).

 

[smoothbore12]

Ok now I am not stupid but we all have been overwhelmed and such with the physics update, but I do recall in one of the recent updates there was mention of the artificial idiots having better stability in wet conditions. Well it is true, someone taught or reprogrammed the digital drivers how to slow down when it rains and not go stupidly sliding into the barriers and off into the gravel.
Since I have been extensively been testing and driving the Le Mans race since the update I have not seen the digital drivers driving stupidly, they will slow down when they are not equipped with wet or IM tyres.
Has anyone seen otherwise?

Unfortunately the last couple of races was at completely dry conditions ( was running 917 K70 ).
But as i remember haven't see yet the usual gathering of the AI under wrong tyres and the blue arrows turning around and around.
Also as i notice the majority of the AI use the pits for tyres the right way .
In the next wet race I'll check the replay.

 

[kartrcr08]

Had a completely dry race, this car is pretty good at 700 & 800pp

Love the 959! It's pretty good at 600 too, very nice livery on yours.

 

[kjb]

Cant use this car on Tokyo anymore, and today I though "whatever"
View attachment 1386171

Didnt try to time that finish, it just happened to almost match (with dry weather).

I love the Stratos at this track

 

[AlexWilmot]

Love the 959! It's pretty good at 600 too, very nice livery on yours.

Livery is by “pirokana” they always make brilliant real world replicas

 

[Batschisane52]

Just had lots of fun playing around with the engine swapped Civic Type R(EK) Touring car...

With RMs and all available tuning and costum parts(since it is already a "touring car" and has an engine swap there are not too many left: adjutable gear box, suspension, front/rear spoilers, tyres, mid/high range turbo...) it comes up to only 597PP, but can win a dry race at Sarhe in high difficulty(a rainy one even easier)

The only issue is the fuel management but that also makes this race really interesting.Even with FM6(I play with automatic transmission) you need to do a lot of cruising and coasting to get 3 laps out of it and on two lap stints I needed to switch between FM 1,2 and 3...but it is really fast(even on FM6) and fun to drive...RMs will do three laps, but some TC does help, since there is a lot of horsepower on the front wheels(I used TC3)

The one important thing: set the maximun speed to 370km/h in the fully adjustable gear box in order to reach that 300km/h on the long straights...(and adjust the suspension and aero to fit your driving style...you might have to do one or two tries to get that right)

But overall that is one of the best engine swaps in the game!

Fun fact: since it stays below 600PP even with RMs, you can use this car with exactly the same tune(and SMs to handle the wet road) for the Tokyo WTC600 grind race and win there too...i did one race on high difficulty finishing second only 5 seconds behind the Mazda(but had some stupid mistakes in the first laps, so winning is defenitely an option) and had a very easy win on medium difficulty there(both with a simple one stop strategy, pitting after 6 laps for fuel and tyres)

I don't think, there are too many cars out there, that can win both grind races(Sarthe WTC700 and TokyoWTC600) with exactly the same settings(except the tyres)

 

[CTznOfTime]

So no one here is using the C8 ?!

I have been using the C8 Corvette quite reliably with great results, worry free since the beginning of the year, relatively easy and tiny tweak with each Kaz updae, tuned to as close to 700pp as possible, on RM and IM for rain...

Fuel Map 6 all the way

You all are missing out on the no fuzz solution to grinding at LeMans

 

[kjb]

So no one here is using the C8 ?!

I have been using the C8 Corvette quite reliably with great results, worry free since the beginning of the year, relatively easy and tiny tweak with each Kaz updae, tuned to as close to 700pp as possible, on RM and IM for rain...

Fuel Map 6 all the way

You all are missing out on the no fuzz solution to grinding at LeMans

I think I have used it once but I think the fuel was not good for me I can't remember to TBH. Can you post your settings? I may need to try them

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

So no one here is using the C8 ?!

I have been using the C8 Corvette quite reliably with great results, worry free since the beginning of the year, relatively easy and tiny tweak with each Kaz updae, tuned to as close to 700pp as possible, on RM and IM for rain...

Fuel Map 6 all the way

You all are missing out on the no fuzz solution to grinding at LeMans

I have 20 of them, different wheels and Aero combos. Along with differing ballast positions. FM4 and short shifting for worry free racing, awesome car.

 

[kartrcr08]

I don't think, there are too many cars out there, that can win both grind races(Sarthe WTC700 and TokyoWTC600) with exactly the same settings(except the tyres)

I'm sensing a new challenge....Both races but box STOCK, just sport tires for Tokyo and racing tires for Le Sarthe. Detuning with power restrictor only, no ballast, everything else totally stock. The C8 Corvette might be a candidate? Time to revisit the car dealers.

 

[05XR8]

I keep the RH on the CTR TC for both La Sarthe and Tokyo. Hard Difficulty.

 

[Batschisane52]

I'm sensing a new challenge....Both races but box STOCK, just sport tires for Tokyo and racing tires for Le Sarthe. Detuning with power restrictor only, no ballast, everything else totally stock. The C8 Corvette might be a candidate? Time to revisit the car dealers.

I think that will be too much of a challenge for my driving skils...

 

[smoothbore12]

I hate Tokyo from the very first moment we meet eachother 😂 .
So i can't participate to this one in full form.
The only thing i can do is to take cars at La Sarthe that you can propose that are able to do the job the way is mentioned above .
I use normal mod ( after 1.49 ) and must also clarify for what level of difficulty we're talking about .

Don't remember now what lap times the AI have in hard level , i remember near 4.14 in the past .
So if that's remains the same,the first two laps can give a conclusion if yes or no especially if a dry race occurs.
With rain things are different up to way different.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I think I have used it once but I think the fuel was not good for me I can't remember to TBH. Can you post your settings? I may need to try them

Let me know what you think, the cAr is playful (loose enough), yet stable and no surprises, easy and balanced

Fuel map on 6 right from the get go, leave it there the whole time, you can change here and there, but FM6 is where it will allow you to do one stop.
RM is the best tires, unless rain them IM.
Like i said before, no fuss.

Good Luck and enjoy you all

Edit: you can do also 2 or 3 stops and still win, depending on the weather conditions...

 

[kartrcr08]

I hate Tokyo from the very first moment we meet eachother 😂 .
So i can't participate to this one in full form.
The only thing i can do is to take cars at La Sarthe that you can propose that are able to do the job the way is mentioned above .
I use normal mod ( after 1.49 ) and must also clarify for what level of difficulty we're talking about .

The Tokyo hate is real Like the Group 4, I'll do this on normal mode. I've done one attempt so far, the Corvette C8. I haven't driven Tokyo post 1.49 so a little rusty, was able to sneak a win by 0.3 seconds. The AI seems faster than I remember, 2.08 fast lap on normal! Took the C8 to La Sarthe, bought RH, only did a couple laps, the C8 has the pace to win in any conditions, fuel management is the only issue. I've done Tokyo a lot in the past and think it will be the more difficult leg of this challenge.