Law Enforcement Disgusts me

[Duke]

Yeah, I'm sure that with 4 bullets in your body the first thing in your mind will be keeping the speed limit and try to drive slowly to the hospital nice and quietly without disturbing the neighborhood.
<snip>
Nothing stupid on his part in the 2nd story. If someone is full with bullets you can tell as a police officer that someone doesn't have much of a fight in him.

Guy with bullets in a gun = dangerous...

Guy with bullets in body = IN danger...


^^ pretty simple

So you expect a cop to be able to make 100% perfect snap judgements with little to no information, yet you don't expect the poster to.

Nice double standard. It's not like the cop made him stay in the car for hours, or dragged him out and cuffed him. He told him to sit in the car for a minute while he assessed the situation, then figured out what was going on and let him get into the hospital. The poster even said he sped into the emergency room lot.

Note that I'm not blaming the poster for his actions during the car jacking in any way. I think he did a great job and I have no idea how I'd perform under the same circumstances.

But to criticize the cop for not having an instantaneous and perfect grasp of the situation from almost zero information is highly immature.

I'd love to see some of you armchair quarterbacks spend a day as a cop in a big city. A quarter of you would be dead, a quarter of you would have killed someone, and the last half would have a nervous breakdown. And no, I don't personally know and am not related to any cops.

 

[The359]

I too think that driving to the hospital anyway even if cops were behind you is the thing you should do, but don't get pissed off when the cops show up with guns drawn.

 

[Driftster]

I too think that driving to the hospital anyway even if cops were behind you is the thing you should do, but don't get pissed off when the cops show up with guns drawn.

Ok, as for MY incident, there were no cops following me, they got reports that I was headed to the hospital due to the passenger in the front seat calling 911 and saying we're on thomas going to St Joesephs. The 4 of the cop vehicles were there 2 started "following" us at the intersecion prior to the ER, where i was NOT speeding.

You're right....Maybe if ONE cop had his weapon drawn, maybe 2. And the others were still making their "snap decisions" Not... "Alright all 8 of us get ready to unload on this guy"

Second, no the police officers did fire ON the runway, with the planes present. The interviews with the airline passengers are what proves that. The only way they could have seen the rounds being fired is FROM the plane, considering the windows don't give a great view, it would be NEXT to the car..

Third, if a plane was coming in? IT was on the Taxi side of the runway, where planes are moving to the Take off strip, not near the landing strip...

Fourth my cousin did NOT cut off the motorcycle...If you're looking at the video and your saying it Cut the bike off? If you really think the bike was going THAT fast, where would the bike have gone? Right into the side of the truck. He didn't turn the cop would have slammed into the truck instead of lay the bike down....

Just get the whole concept of "the planes were trying to land" out of your heads there was NO landing involved.

 

[Swift]

You're right....Maybe if ONE cop had his weapon drawn, maybe 2. And the others were still making their "snap decisions" Not... "Alright all 8 of us get ready to unload on this guy"

Second, no the police officers did fire ON the runway, with the planes present. The interviews with the airline passengers are what proves that. The only way they could have seen the rounds being fired is FROM the plane, considering the windows don't give a great view, it would be NEXT to the car..

Third, if a plane was coming in? IT was on the Taxi side of the runway, where planes are moving to the Take off strip, not near the landing strip...

Fourth my cousin did NOT cut off the motorcycle...If you're looking at the video and your saying it Cut the bike off? If you really think the bike was going THAT fast, where would the bike have gone? Right into the side of the truck. He didn't turn the cop would have slammed into the truck instead of lay the bike down....

Just get the whole concept of "the planes were trying to land" out of your heads there was NO landing involved.

Bottom Line, your cousin stole a car a then resisted arrest. Any and everything that happened after that is on him.

And what difference does it make if the planes were taxing or not. For some reason I don't think he planned it that way.

Look, your cousin broke the law. Did the cops go overboard. Nope, He's lucky they didn't just shoot out his tires or something.

Anyway, It's rough to have family that's going through rough times, but that doesn't exhornorate him from criminal behaviour or turn all law enforcement personell into bumbs and bullies.

 

[Driftster]

Why does everyone think i'm starting some "free my cousin" movement? I'm not! I'm well aware he was in the wrong, stop thinking i'm trying to justify his actions, because there is no justification of his actions. But there isn't much justification to the gunfire in public, there isn't much justification for the fact that Arizonans are more likely to die from the police than in most other cities.

 

[Driftster]

Second..Here's the freeway portion of the chase, at one point cars are passing him..

http://www.azfamily.com/perl/azfamily/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=20050630_chase.wmv&vsect=News

Here's the last 2 minutes, him on the taxiway..NOT AN OFFICIAL runway.
Cop bites it at the end, great driving, but gets up fast enough to shoot

http://www.abc15.com/video/player.a...x/skyharbortruckbreach063005-taxiway-chase.rm

 

[The359]

Holy CRAP, you are an idiot...

Not even 1 minute into that video, the helicopter reporter and news reporter BOTH say that your cousin has been running red lights and driving on the opposite side of the road.

The police even say they used stop sticks on him, and failed.

Not only that, but the police have backed off in this part of the video, so obviously he's slowed down, THERE'S NO ONE CHASING HIM AT THIS POINT.

Jesus, now they're SHOWING him going through a redlight...

You are a complete idiot if you think the police, who are trained to use weapons in public, have no right to use those same weapons in an airport when your stupid cousin has become a HELL of a lot more dangerous to the public then any cop with a gun.

Him being on a runway or taxi way makes NO difference, he was still flying past planes full of people and being wreckless. He has become not only a civilian risk, but a NATIONAL risk by charging onto an airport. And you complain that police shot at him? You amaze me with your stupidity.

The motorcycle cop wiped out because his only option was A) Hit the truck or B) Hit the fence to his left. Obviously he chose the best one, drop the bike. So yes, your idiot cousin cut him off and that's why he's being charged.

NO ONE on a plane, at the speed in which the truck and the following vehicles were going, could possible see if the police officers were shooting, let alone 20 rounds. In case you don't know, your peripheal vision through an airplane window is just about nil.

The cops fired 4 rounds, period. If you think that is a gross misuse of their power, then you need a swift kick to the back of the head as a wake up call.

------------

Ok, as for MY incident, there were no cops following me, they got reports that I was headed to the hospital due to the passenger in the front seat calling 911 and saying we're on thomas going to St Joesephs. The 4 of the cop vehicles were there 2 started "following" us at the intersecion prior to the ER, where i was NOT speeding.

You're right....Maybe if ONE cop had his weapon drawn, maybe 2. And the others were still making their "snap decisions" Not... "Alright all 8 of us get ready to unload on this guy"

You're an idiot. You contradict yourself right there. First no cops are chasing you, now two cars are after you. Think before you start lying, genius...

Second, duh, let's think here for a second Boy Blunder. Shots fired, obviously at last 5 shots. Do you think that people nearby might have heard it? Do you think people nearby have already called 911 long before you? Do you think they've already given their reports and their stories long before you? YOU are a suspect, no matter what you said to 911, no matter that you were going to the hospital, you were a suspect and you deserved to have the police be extra careful with you, knowing you were just involved in something pertaining to shots being fired.

If you think that just one cop is going to draw his gun and that all of them doing it is overkill, you are very sadly mistaken and obviously don't know a damn thing about tactics or police work. Not that you did in the first place...

You're also clueless if you think they were drawing their guns on you because you were speeding.

------

there isn't much justification for the fact that Arizonans are more likely to die from the police than in most other cities.

Arizona isn't a city.

Back up your facts with some stats before you start lying some more.

 

[Driftster]

Holy CRAP, you are an idiot...

Jesus, now they're SHOWING him going through a redlight...

You're just a hard reader arn't you? You can't understand the fact that no one is saying my cousin is innocent. ok? So stop talking like you're sleuthing the truth out or anything. People are saying, Shoot at him because he's wrecklessly putting lives in danger.. If you watched the video you'd see that yes he's doing illegal acts, but he's doing them in an extremely careful manner.
He came to a complete stop before he went through the intersection did he not? He didn't blow by the intersection and get "lucky" no cars were coming.

You are a complete idiot if you think the police, who are trained to use weapons in public, have no right to use those same weapons in an airport when your stupid cousin has become a HELL of a lot more dangerous to the public then any cop with a gun.

You're just being a naive fool now.

Him being on a runway or taxi way makes NO difference, he was still flying past planes full of people and being wreckless. He has become not only a civilian risk, but a NATIONAL risk by charging onto an airport. And you complain that police shot at him? You amaze me with your stupidity.

How does he become a national risk? You mean the 2 hours of random driving around could have been planned by the terrorist he wasn't? You mean the news broadcast saying "it's obvious he has nothing planned" means he's a threat to national security...You amaze me with your lack of thiking deep

The motorcycle cop wiped out because his only option was A) Hit the truck or B) Hit the fence to his left. Obviously he chose the best one, drop the bike. So yes, your idiot cousin cut him off and that's why he's being charged.

You're right, he couldn't have you know gone right and avoided everything, or not even bother trying to take out a truck on a bike.
NO ONE on a plane, at the speed in which the truck and the following vehicles were going, could possible see if the police officers were shooting, let alone 20 rounds. In case you don't know, your peripheal vision through an airplane window is just about nil.

Damn lying eye witesses...And I think I already addressed the "vision" issue of the airplane, no need to try and sound like a smart ass with the "In case you don't know" comment.

You're an idiot. You contradict yourself right there. First no cops are chasing you, now two cars are after you. Think before you start lying, genius...

Now you're calling me a LIAR?

Oh so yo obviously know the layout of metro phoenix in your memory, so who am i to question you...You know exactly where I was going, what side the cops came from, the name of the street they pulled off of. Genius over here.

Second, duh, let's think here for a second Boy Blunder. Shots fired, obviously at last 5 shots. Do you think that people nearby might have heard it? Do you think people nearby have already called 911 long before you? Do you think they've already given their reports and their stories long before you? YOU are a suspect, no matter what you said to 911, no matter that you were going to the hospital, you were a suspect and you deserved to have the police be extra careful with you, knowing you were just involved in something pertaining to shots being fired.

Hah, you REALLY don't know phoenix.
First MY reports, my passengers reports, and the police offers reports are the ONLY reports that were taking.
Second, had there BEEN anyone else in the immediate area they wouldn't have called the cops anyway.
Lastly, since you're farmiliar with the area and all, it was 43rd and thomas so no one would have called the cops if they heard gunfire.

Considering you have NO idea where I live i love how you know everything that's going on, on that night. You must be a police officer for the area to know everything that you're claiming to know and still be supporting the officers. Wait, you don't. So your support is nothing but blind faith. Good thinking.

You knwo if you want to sit here and tell me what happened to me didn't happen feel free to. It's just making you look like a complete fool

 

[tabs]

.. If you watched the video you'd see that yes he's doing illegal acts, but he's doing them in an extremely careful manner.

Ahahaha. As long as he's careful, I guess. 👍

 

[Driftster]

Well tabs. Doesn't that somewhat change it? I mean if he's doing 90 through a redlight it's putting tad more jeapardy on the table than stopping completely...and slowly progressing.

 

[The359]

You're just a hard reader arn't you? You can't understand the fact that no one is saying my cousin is innocent. ok? So stop talking like you're sleuthing the truth out or anything. People are saying, Shoot at him because he's wrecklessly putting lives in danger.. If you watched the video you'd see that yes he's doing illegal acts, but he's doing them in an extremely careful manner.
He came to a complete stop before he went through the intersection did he not? He didn't blow by the intersection and get "lucky" no cars were coming.

The chase lasted over 45 minutes (quoted in original video). You have less then 10 minutes of video. You have NO video from before he got on the highway and before the police backed off from him. You're a waste of my, and everyone else's time if you can't understand this fact.

The simple fact that you are lying shows that your opinion is skewed, and no one should be listening to you.

You are a complete idiot if you think the police, who are trained to use weapons in public, have no right to use those same weapons in an airport when your stupid cousin has become a HELL of a lot more dangerous to the public then any cop with a gun.

You're just being a naive fool now.

No, naive fools have no proof to back up their accusations. You have 10 minutes of video contradicting what you claim out of a 45 minute chase. Provide the other 35 minutes, or shut up.

How does he become a national risk? You mean the 2 hours of random driving around could have been planned by the terrorist he wasn't? You mean the news broadcast saying "it's obvious he has nothing planned" means he's a threat to national security...You amaze me with your lack of thiking deep

Hello, airport, full of cargo going to all kinds of countries and people from all kinds of countries and from across the entire United States. ANY threat to an airport, terrorist or otherwise, is a threat to something of national security. If it wasn;t, then the news wouldn't be making a big deal of asking "How did he get through security onto an airport tarmac?"

Damn lying eye witesses...And I think I already addressed the "vision" issue of the airplane, no need to try and sound like a smart ass with the "In case you don't know" comment.

Wow, do you even have an arguement anymore? Everything you've said has been found to be a lie.

Now you're calling me a LIAR?

I believe so, yes...

Oh so yo obviously know the layout of metro phoenix in your memory, so who am i to question you...You know exactly where I was going, what side the cops came from, the name of the street they pulled off of. Genius over here.

What does this have to do with the fact that you claim that cops are not chasing you, then two sentences later claim that two ARE following you? Pick one, they can't both be right.

Second, duh, let's think here for a second Boy Blunder. Shots fired, obviously at last 5 shots. Do you think that people nearby might have heard it? Do you think people nearby have already called 911 long before you? Do you think they've already given their reports and their stories long before you? YOU are a suspect, no matter what you said to 911, no matter that you were going to the hospital, you were a suspect and you deserved to have the police be extra careful with you, knowing you were just involved in something pertaining to shots being fired.

Hah, you REALLY don't know phoenix.
First MY reports, my passengers reports, and the police offers reports are the ONLY reports that were taking.
Second, had there BEEN anyone else in the immediate area they wouldn't have called the cops anyway.

Yeah, right, downtown urban Phoenix, shots fired, no one calls police. RIIIIIGHT....

Not only are you claiming to know what people nearby are doing, but you're also claiming to know what the police knew beforehand. Completely ignorant and uncalled for.

Lastly, since you're farmiliar with the area and all, it was 43rd and thomas so no one would have called the cops if they heard gunfire.

43rd and Thomas St., a block away from the Arcadia Crossing Mall. In the middle of a crapload of suburban-style houses. Also nearly 30 blocks away from St. Joseph's Hospital.

But of course you knew that Maricopa County General Hospital was closer, right?

Considering you have NO idea where I live i love how you know everything that's going on, on that night. You must be a police officer for the area to know everything that you're claiming to know and still be supporting the officers. Wait, you don't. So your support is nothing but blind faith. Good thinking.

You're just noots

Ooops, I do have an idea where you live....

Not that I need to know where you live to know that people call the police when shots are fired, no matter how bad of a neighborhood it is, and that police were in the right to treat you as a suspect.

I also don't need to be a police officer to know that, or to support the actions of the police.

If you want to be ignorant and lie to everyone, be my guest, but don't be surprised when everyone laughs at you and no one cares what you think of the police.

Your opinion is uneducated, unwarrented, unfounded, and immature. Then again, as is your spelling, grammar, writing ability, logic, and arguing.

In fact, I'd say you're about as intelligent as your cousin. 👍

 

[Driftster]

yeah it's obvious you don't know the city at all..

First. anything Arcadia is located in the Arcadia section of town, which is on the East side of phoenix... In the 32nd Street Range..Wrong end of town ya douche

43rd Avenue on the other hand is on the west side of town. and the only malls nearby are 1. Desert Sky Mall
and
2. Maryvale Mall, which has been closed for about 10 years.

Second no hospital is named "maricopa country general hospital" So i have no idea what you're talking about, but I do know the closest hospital to the incident was Vangaurd(formally known as Maryvale hospital) and it is located just north of Maryvale mall. That's on Indian School Rd and 59th avenue.

But you also don't know how poor of a facility that is. I had exploratory surgery done and if i had it done there, I wouldn't have a belly button, because St Joesephs is the only hospital that doesn't think a belly button is "cosmetic", In other words they would have cut me open and stapled me shut right through the belly button, meaning it would be gone.

Just by those mapquest directions and locations I can tell you know absolutly NOTHING about phx, but keep making your assumptions, and keep sounding like a fool.

I love how you're just sitting here making these infantile remarks on spelling and grammar. You just don't realize how huge of a jackass you're making yourself look. You suffer from an inferiority complex, or you're just starving for attention. You've yet to post anything that didn't involve insulting someone, why is that necessary? But feel free to continue to make your childish remarks.

Your opinion is uneducated, unwarrented, unfounded, and immature. Then again, as is your spelling, grammar, writing ability, logic, and arguing.

In fact, I'd say you're about as intelligent as your cousin.

Wow, genius in the building.

 

[Solid Fro]

In fact, I'd say you're about as intelligent as your cousin. 👍

I concur.

You're cousin broke the law, get over it.

 

[Driftster]

I concur.

You're cousin broke the law, get over it.

We've got another genius who can't read...

 

[Flame-returns]

If a person could hit a plane driving recklessly they are a danger to the public...

In the nearest airport to me, London City (which is a midget airport) the police dont do chases on the runway, we have the army for that.

 

[Famine]

Your point is, presumably, that the police are bad.

So let's take the two cases at face value, shall we?

1. "Young" male steals a pickup truck. Proceeds to drive it illegally - above speed limit, through red lights and so on. Uses it as a ram, to smash down a chainlink fence and get onto an international airport apron, which, according to ABC15.com had the result that "controllers were forced to momentarily stop air traffic" (which means they stopped planes from landing - planes on the ground are not air traffic).

Now, not being gifted with ESP and telepathy, and not knowing it was Driftster's cousin who'd just got a few "hard times as of late", what do you see?

You see a young male with a stolen car driving illegally forcing his way into an international airport.

What do you do? You use any reasonable force to stop him. Chasing him with bikes won't work. PIT won't work on a pickup truck twice the weight of the police cruisers. You can't get a stinger effectively onto a runway as there's too much space for the felon to avoid it. So you shoot out his tyres, or shoot to wound the driver.

What would YOU have done, Driftster?


2. A car you've been following, after a shooting report, pulls into a hospital. The car has visible bulletholes in it and there are four people inside. It has just "SPED INTO THE ER ENTRANCE".

Now, not being gifted with ESP and telepathy, and not knowing it was Driftster inside who'd just been the victim of an "attempted car-jacking gone wrong", what do you see?

You see four people in a shot-up car speeding into a hospital.

Now, given that most shootings involve two or more firearms - one on each side - do you think it is reasonable to conclude that the people in the car full of bulletholes which has just "SPED INTO THE ER ENTRANCE" may be armed and that you should attempt to determine whether this is the case or not in an expeditious manner? Would you perhaps think just as badly of the Phoenix PD if they'd let a car with four Hispanic youths into the ER unhindered and one had been armed and started shooting up medical staff and taking patients hostage? Of course you would.

What would YOU have done, Driftster?


In both cases you've highlighted, the police responded appropriately and with reasonable force. The issue is you think it's unreasonable because it happened to your family - yet you do not offer solutions that YOU'D have pursued...

Incidentally, again not being gifted with ESP and telepathy, how would you determine that a man holding a rake in what appears to be an aggressive manner (and yes, you CAN use a rake as a weapon effectively) is "deaf and retarded" and cannot understand or hear your orders to put it down? Could you differentiate his reactions from those of the 99.9999% of similar cases they respond to where the "aggressor" is neither deaf nor retarded?


The police have a tough job. Occasionally they make a wrong call. If only all of YOUR wrong calls were broadcast live to the nation you'd probably see that what you're complaining about, as presented in your first post, is nonsense.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

If you watched the video you'd see that yes he's doing illegal acts, but he's doing them in an extremely careful manner.

Priceless comment.

When you have grown up a bit Driftster, you might realise that trying to justify your idiotic cousins actions is pathetic.

 

[Duke]

Just get the whole concept of "the planes were trying to land" out of your heads there was NO landing involved.

[sarcasm]

Yeah, I believe that, since your cousin stopped to check before he drove down the runway. Or maybe he has a scanner so that he could hear the ATC and knew he'd have clearance. Just like he stopped and looked both ways before proceeding with caution through every intersection on the way there.

[/sarcasm]

If there were no planes coming in at that time, it was 100% luck since I would bet my next paycheck that your cousin was driving with more than half his attention on the rear view mirror and probably only glanced at best.

Look, I understand that you are upset for your cousin and nobody is blaming you for that. But all of these attempts at justifying your anger are really just making you look immature.

 

[DJM PRODUCTIONS]

Has anyone seen video with his cousin Chelsea being interviewed on abc15.com?

She said that he was on parole for drug violations and he continues to do drugs. She also says that he was probably on meth when he was being chased.

 

[Melaneimoon]

Law enforcement disgusts me

Carthieves disgust me. And unfortunately for your cousin, they disgust the police too.

I can easely believe that policemen can be hotheaded assholes, but that does NOT, in any way, make an excuse for your cousin's actions.

 

[tabs]

Well tabs. Doesn't that somewhat change it? I mean if he's doing 90 through a redlight it's putting tad more jeapardy on the table than stopping completely...and slowly progressing.

No, it doesn't. Hopefully, once you've cooled off you'll see how absurd your whole argument sounds.

 

[The359]

Second no hospital is named "maricopa country general hospital" So i have no idea what you're talking about,

http://www.mihs.org/

but I do know the closest hospital to the incident was Vangaurd(formally known as Maryvale hospital) and it is located just north of Maryvale mall. That's on Indian School Rd and 59th avenue.

But you also don't know how poor of a facility that is. I had exploratory surgery done and if i had it done there, I wouldn't have a belly button, because St Joesephs is the only hospital that doesn't think a belly button is "cosmetic", In other words they would have cut me open and stapled me shut right through the belly button, meaning it would be gone.

Haha, yeah, right, you have 4 bullet wounds and you're worried about which hospital is better...

Just by those mapquest directions and locations I can tell you know absolutly NOTHING about phx, but keep making your assumptions, and keep sounding like a fool.

Directions have nothing to do with the fact that your claim that no one else called 911 or saw anything is ludacrous.

I love how you're just sitting here making these infantile remarks on spelling and grammar. You just don't realize how huge of a jackass you're making yourself look. You suffer from an inferiority complex, or you're just starving for attention. You've yet to post anything that didn't involve insulting someone, why is that necessary? But feel free to continue to make your childish remarks.

Whatever you want to think there, kiddo. Your opinion is obviously very skewed on a lot of things, so no one really cares about your claims of jackassery, complexes, or attention.

You've yet to post any valid points to your arguement, or any proof to back up your claims. All you've done is lied and made overzealous and unjust claims about people you clearly do not understand.

I will personally laugh when you smart off to a cop for doing his job and he busts your ass, as he should be doing.

 

[Sage]

Okay, I'm not sure we're going to get anything out of this thread, so let's call it a day, shall we?

*Ploink!*