Left Wing or Right Wing? Take Pop Quiz in OP!

[VFOURMAX1]

The political compass uses an absolute scale on both axes. One end of the left/right scale is complete government control of the means of production, while the other is total free market absent regulation. One end of the social scale perpendicular to it is complete government regulation of behaviour, with the other is complete absence of it (or social anarchism). Total fiscal left and total social authoritarian is communism. Total fiscal right and total social liberalism is anarchism.

Centre is... centre, on both axes.

Like I am going to accept being told how my countries government is structured and what is considered left or right political leanings from someone from a country that's viewpoints and values are determined by a system with as screwed up a political system as that of England, that has a queen and royal family that is not elected and the entire family lives off money collected from the population. Has a prime minister that is considered head of the government, and houses within the government that are apparently controlled by multiple entities including the British and Irish and Scottish governments.

Seems from another topic and thread on this board that has 6 or more political parties in the political landscape vying for control which surely muddies the waters even more for a system that appears to be a train wreck to begin with.

Not to mention a country and government that was stupid enough to give up their sovereign control of their borders and countries trade agreements and now are embroiled in Brexit trying to figure out how to get out of the agreement with out destroying the country politically and economically.

Trying to claim that the British political system and measurable values is the same as the American political system and measurable values is a totally ridiculous proposition.
The U.S. has not agreed, aligned nor shared the same political systems and values with Britain since 1781 when this country sent you packing back across the big waters with your tail between your legs. There was a reason that the U.S. revolted, maybe you are seeing part of that reason here! lol!

You can keep arguing and making your claims as to what our system is and this even includes those in this country that claim to be libertarian and follow that discipline of a political party as in this country politically they are irrelevant and not considered a legitimate force that is recognized or influential in American politics.

I have tried to reasonably explain that our system overall is graded on a different scale and that system grades in a much more simple manner which is just based on a horizontal line and has no vertical axis within the grading system that is used or considered by American voters.

Your political compass that you claim is valid in the entire world may work for your system and your viewpoints but when you place a candidate such as Harris and Warren in the same political quadrant as Trump then that model does not align with major political accepted views in American politics.

Perhaps you should be more willing to understand that all countries do not share your political viewpoints much less your political grading system.

The End!

"The United Kingdom is a unitary state with devolution that is governed within the framework of a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy in which the monarch, currently Queen Elizabeth II, is the head of state while the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, currently Boris Johnson, is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by the British government, on behalf of and by the consent of the monarch,"

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, currently Boris Johnson, is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by the British government, on behalf of and by the consent of the monarch, as well as by the devolved governments of Scotland and Wales and the Northern Ireland Executive. Legislative power is vested in the two chambers of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies.

1. The Brexit Party
   Change UK/The Independent Group
2. Conservative Party
3. Green Party
4. Labour Party
5. Liberal Democrats
6. Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

 

[Famine]

Like I am going to accept

Well there's your problem.

You don't seem to understand that the political compass is not contingent on where you are from. The plot is absolute, not variable depending on the political landscape of any particular society. You also don't seem to understand that you can't plot two different things that are independent of one another on a single axis. Your spectrum would put two people who are extremely pro-free market to the point of wanting zero government regulation of any aspect of economics, including zero taxation in exactly the same place, even if one wanted a totalitarian police state but the other wanted absolute anarchy. How are they the same politically?

They aren't. That's why you need two axes. One for fiscal policies, one for social policies.


In your country the left has wandered right, the centre has wandered right, and the right has wandered right. Everything has become more fiscally capitalist in nature. The left has also wandered to a more authoritarian mindset, the centre has wandered to a more authoritarian mindset, and the right has wandered to a more authoritarian mindset. Everything has become more socially authoritarian in nature.

The Republican Party (and particularly Trump) is way, way more fiscally capitalist and socially authoritarian than the Democrat Party, but the Democrat Party is also mildly fiscally capitalist and socially authoritarian. Sanders is an exception - he's left and liberal - but that's probably why the DNC was so scared of him they rigged the primaries in favour of Hillary. Almost everyone else rumoured for 2020 is centre-to-mid-right, and centre-to-mid-authoritarian, with the Republican Party further along both axes.

What you call "the left" is simply "less right than the Republicans", rather than actually being on the left. And - which is still hilarious - you're more left and liberal than either of them, despite portraying yourself as Trumpian.


All your waffling about the war of independence, like either of us was alive at the time, is just a distraction from what you can't accept to be true, which is that your answers to the political compass have absolutely destroyed what you present on here as your world view. Despite decrying other contributors as "left-leaning liberals", you're more left than most of us - I'm six points further right than you!

You're literally afraid to share your answers because they'll reveal either that you weren't honest or, worse for you, that you were. I'm not.

Here's mine:

And my first page of answers:

Your play.

 

[zzz_pt]

Like I am going to accept being told how my countries government is structured and what is considered left or right political leanings from someone from a country that's viewpoints and values are determined by a system with as screwed up a political system as that of England, that has a queen and royal family that is not elected and the entire family lives off money collected from the population. Has a prime minister that is considered head of the government, and houses within the government that are apparently controlled by multiple entities including the British and Irish and Scottish governments.

Seems from another topic and thread on this board that has 6 or more political parties in the political landscape vying for control which surely muddies the waters even more for a system that appears to be a train wreck to begin with.

Not to mention a country and government that was stupid enough to give up their sovereign control of their borders and countries trade agreements and now are embroiled in Brexit trying to figure out how to get out of the agreement with out destroying the country politically and economically.

Trying to claim that the British political system and measurable values is the same as the American political system and measurable values is a totally ridiculous proposition.
The U.S. has not agreed, aligned nor shared the same political systems and values with Britain since 1781 when this country sent you packing back across the big waters with your tail between your legs. There was a reason that the U.S. revolted, maybe you are seeing part of that reason here! lol!

You can keep arguing and making your claims as to what our system is and this even includes those in this country that claim to be libertarian and follow that discipline of a political party as in this country politically they are irrelevant and not considered a legitimate force that is recognized or influential in American politics.

I have tried to reasonably explain that our system overall is graded on a different scale and that system grades in a much more simple manner which is just based on a horizontal line and has no vertical axis within the grading system that is used or considered by American voters.

Your political compass that you claim is valid in the entire world may work for your system and your viewpoints but when you place a candidate such as Harris and Warren in the same political quadrant as Trump then that model does not align with major political accepted views in American politics.

Perhaps you should be more willing to understand that all countries do not share your political viewpoints much less your political grading system.

The End!

"The United Kingdom is a unitary state with devolution that is governed within the framework of a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy in which the monarch, currently Queen Elizabeth II, is the head of state while the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, currently Boris Johnson, is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by the British government, on behalf of and by the consent of the monarch,"

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, currently Boris Johnson, is the head of government. Executive power is exercised by the British government, on behalf of and by the consent of the monarch, as well as by the devolved governments of Scotland and Wales and the Northern Ireland Executive. Legislative power is vested in the two chambers of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies.

1. The Brexit Party
   Change UK/The Independent Group
2. Conservative Party
3. Green Party
4. Labour Party
5. Liberal Democrats
6. Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

/rant

 

[mustafur]

Big Changes
Having started to actually understand what Marxism is about I have agreed with some Elements to it, I Basically Consider my self A Social Democrat at this stage moving from Centre Right Libertarian, I'm still pro Capitalist but I think unionism needs to be strengthened and I'm very much in favour of a system Like Germany where the Workers get a Seat on the board room, thanks To The rise of Monopolies and Climate change I think the era of Individualism is coming to an end unfortunately and we will have to adapt.

Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -3.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.69

Last Test:
Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 4.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.67

 

[PocketZeven]

Here's mine:

View attachment 845918​

And my first page of answers:

View attachment 845919​

Your play.

Interesting that you dont worry about the fusion between entertainment and information. I interpreted it as the blurring between objective news and opinionated entertainment? Did I misinterpret that question?

 

[zzz_pt]

 

[Famine]

Interesting that you dont worry about the fusion between entertainment and information. I interpreted it as the blurring between objective news and opinionated entertainment? Did I misinterpret that question?

I write news for a gaming website.

 

[PocketZeven]

I write news for a gaming website.

But this site does separate opiniated pieces with news. I am worrying about the recent trend of how people interpret people's opinion as fact and visa versa.

 

[Famine]

But this site does separate opiniated pieces with news. I am worrying about the recent trend of how people interpret people's opinion as fact and visa versa.

The question makes no mention of opinion and fact, much less opinion as fact.

While you're free to interpret it however you wish, it says "There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment.". I picked "disagree" because I think that there is a crossover between the two spheres anyway, I don't worry about it, and I don't think that it's of any greater scope now than it was 20 years ago. There's no reason why information can't be entertainment - one doesn't have to think too hard to come up with people who give information in an entertaining way (Steve Irwin, Bill Nye, Mythbusters). Education given in a memorable way is... well, more likely to be remembered.

I didn't pick "strongly disagree", because it's fair to say that there's times when we treat entertainment too much like information; whether that's more prevalent now than it was 20 years ago... I'm not sure I can say.

 

[Dotini]

Information and entertainment are ways of influencing and changing culture.

Since conservatives, anarchists and libertarians generally resist too-rapid culture change, we should be suspicious of both information and entertainment, especially when distributed by government or industry.

 

[PocketZeven]

The question makes no mention of opinion and fact, much less opinion as fact.

While you're free to interpret it however you wish, it says "There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment.". I picked "disagree" because I think that there is a crossover between the two spheres anyway, I don't worry about it, and I don't think that it's of any greater scope now than it was 20 years ago. There's no reason why information can't be entertainment - one doesn't have to think too hard to come up with people who give information in an entertaining way (Steve Irwin, Bill Nye, Mythbusters). Education given in a memorable way is... well, more likely to be remembered.

I didn't pick "strongly disagree", because it's fair to say that there's times when we treat entertainment too much like information; whether that's more prevalent now than it was 20 years ago... I'm not sure I can say.

I interpeted " information" as objective news in this question.
I personally remember there was a more clear line and division between news and entertainment. I knew what was news and what was entertainment. For example our paper used to be mostly about news and 1 entertainment page. This was something the "tabloids" used to do. Now that same paper is going allin on entertainment news. Obviously for economic reasons, but as a result relevant and important news have such short cycles, because entertainment is dominating the news aspect and it is getting worse. Opinions are presented as facts and opinions facts as opinions.

But then again, perhaps I overthought that particular question.

 

[Danoff]

@mustafur On abortion, while libertarians can disagree about when life begins, and so disagree about when the right to life should be preserved, an anti-abortion stance necessarily requires curtailing the rights of the mother.

Last time I was:
7.88,-4.62

This time it's:
7.38,-5.64


To summarize, I'm noticing a lot of you are in the lower left. According to the website that means I agree with you on just about everything that doesn't involve money.

This time it's 6.63, -5.44. A disturbing leftward trend! All answers attached.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

This time it's 6.63, -5.44. A disturbing leftward trend! All answers attached.

Commie.

 

[PocketZeven]

No surprise here:

 

[Danoff]

View attachment 845787

Only one person on that chart is even in the entire purple quadrant. I'm so out of luck in elections. You too.

I agree with the results. Being authoritarian is the absolute worse since it's not the government's job to dictate people's lives. Also, my money is my money and something, something, taxation is theft.

I also like how this shows there's not one candidate who's announced a 2020 run yet that I agree with.

Purple power!

 

[Famine]

Only one person on that chart is even in the entire purple quadrant. I'm so out of luck in elections. You too.

Yeah, it's so weird that so many politicians sit firmly in the two contrary quadrants - liberal social policy but with big government economics, or fiscal free rein with the thought police - and the overwhelming majority in that top-right spot.

We have absolutely zero libertarian representation in the UK, and in fact the UK media is now starting to paint "libertarian" as fascist, racist, gammon, right-wing, Brexiteers - which is totally bizarre. I was actually considering running for the local council next time out, but it's becoming a label that's difficult to promote. Perhaps I should anyway

We can basically vote for a whole bunch of free market fascists, or the magic grandpa who is socially liberal but economical nuts and a straight-up terrorist sympathiser. The Liberal Democrats are getting to be the best of a very, very bad bunch, but they too have wandered from their liberal position when in coalition with the Conservatives to a more (if least) authoritarian stance. In fact the coalition was generally pretty good - by tempering the Conservatives' excess authoritarianism - but because they had so little ability to get their own policies through the Lib Dems ended up being scapegoated as traitors to their voters, and it was during a period of severe cuts in spending to rescue the economy from the enormous debt and deficit of the previous Labour government (we're actually only now close to zeroing the deficit; the debt is still insane).

 

[Danoff]

Yeah, it's so weird that so many politicians sit firmly in the two contrary quadrants - liberal social policy but with big government economics, or fiscal free rein with the thought police - and the overwhelming majority in that top-right spot.

We have absolutely zero libertarian representation in the UK, and in fact the UK media is now starting to paint "libertarian" as fascist, racist, gammon, right-wing, Brexiteers - which is totally bizarre. I was actually considering running for the local council next time out, but it's becoming a label that's difficult to promote. Perhaps I should anyway

We can basically vote for a whole bunch of free market fascists, or the magic grandpa who is socially liberal but economical nuts and a straight-up terrorist sympathiser. The Liberal Democrats are getting to be the best of a very, very bad bunch, but they too have wandered from their liberal position when in coalition with the Conservatives to a more (if least) authoritarian stance. In fact the coalition was generally pretty good - by tempering the Conservatives' excess authoritarianism - but because they had so little ability to get their own policies through the Lib Dems ended up being scapegoated as traitors to their voters, and it was during a period of severe cuts in spending to rescue the economy from the enormous debt and deficit of the previous Labour government (we're actually only now close to zeroing the deficit; the debt is still insane).

The funny thing is, it really does feel like the chart. When I look at the politicians and their rhetoric, I really do feel like I've gone in another dimension from them.

If you imagine an axis stretching from lower-left to upper-right, they're all on it. And I'm off in this perpendicular dimension that they don't explore. It's very alienating from the political experience (which is fine, I'm not wishing I were more engaged in political gamesmanship). I would like some representation of course, but it seems impossibly far away.

 

[Jezza819]

Not really surprised

 

[Famine]

The funny thing is, it really does feel like the chart. When I look at the politicians and their rhetoric, I really do feel like I've gone in another dimension from them.

If you imagine an axis stretching from lower-left to upper-right, they're all on it. And I'm off in this perpendicular dimension that they don't explore. It's very alienating from the political experience (which is fine, I'm not wishing I were more engaged in political gamesmanship). I would like some representation of course, but it seems impossibly far away.

France is the mad one. The current PM is almost as far right as you can go and slightly libertarian. Possibly the most famous rival for him is right on the Hitler spot. The previous PM is up in the Brexit/Trump corner...

 

[CinnamonOD]

Don't remember my last test, but I think it was in the same quadrant

 

[Joey D]

Ah, cool. You can join Dotini in the "I'm old so I must know what I'm talking about" club.

#boomerlogic

*And since I'm not sure if Baby Boomer is something outside the US or not, it's essentially a generation of older people who are somewhere between 50 to 70 years old.

Yeah, it's so weird that so many politicians sit firmly in the two contrary quadrants - liberal social policy but with big government economics, or fiscal free rein with the thought police - and the overwhelming majority in that top-right spot.

I think it comes down to people in power like to tell other people, who are presumably "beneath" them on what they can and cannot do. It's one of the fundamental flaws of the US government and I suspect most governments in general. Governments aren't supposed to dictate people's lives, they're supposed to govern and protect the rights of its citizens.

Even the most liberal of our US candidates can't help themselves from telling others what they can do, despite claiming how socially liberal they are.

 

[Famine]

I think it comes down to people in power like to tell other people, who are presumably "beneath" them on what they can and cannot do. It's one of the fundamental flaws of the US government and I suspect most governments in general. Governments aren't supposed to dictate people's lives, they're supposed to govern and protect the rights of its citizens.

Even the most liberal of our US candidates can't help themselves from telling others what they can do, despite claiming how socially liberal they are.

It's the road analogy - everyone going faster than me is a dangerous maniac, everyone going slower than me is a dodderer in my way.

People don't like being told what to do, but they like telling others what to do. They think they're smart enough to deal with whatever they're doing, but other people are dumber and need to have their hand held (while obviously smarter people are nerds and geeks). They think the rich aren't taxed enough, and they're taxed too much because the poor get too many handouts. Everyone is their own special case and should be exempt from the things that affect everyone else (just look at how most people react to getting caught speeding), but they'll happily sit in judgment over others.

It's only natural that politicians have all moved to that little opinion chunk, because that's where the votes are.

 

[Dotini]

Ah, cool. You can join Dotini in the "I'm old so I must know what I'm talking about" club.

I guess I must concede the war between the generations is no less real than the war between the sexes. Conflict seems routine between and among humans. We do it very well, almost as though we were genetically evolved for it.

In fact, humans in conflict is probably the best possible subject to take an interest in.

 

[Roo]

In fact, humans in conflict is probably the best possible subject to take an interest in.

No it isn't

Edit: I didn't make the joke obvious. This was a joke.

 

[UKMikey]

In fact, humans in conflict is probably the best possible subject to take an interest in.

No it isn't

I sense another conflict brewing.

 

[Corsa]

I sense another conflict brewing.

Yep. Politics, I’m so outta here.

 

[UKMikey]

No it isn't

Edit: I didn't make the joke obvious. This was a joke.

Emojis are your friend.

 

[nobuffalo]

I strongly disagreed with everything and got a result I can live with.

 

[Duke]

Information and entertainment are ways of influencing and changing culture.

Since conservatives, anarchists and libertarians generally resist too-rapid culture change, we should be suspicious of both information and entertainment, especially when distributed by government or industry.

Ummm, what?! Emphasis above is mine. Since libertarians (and anarchists) generally believe that each individual person is their own individual culture, how exactly are we resistant to rapid culture change? We expect the culture to change based on whoever we happen to be standing near at any given moment.

 

[Duke]

For the record, here is my result: