LeMONS to LeMANS Race Series -- Season Ended

[chuyler1]

Objective)
You are given starting budget of $30,000 to buy a car and mod it. If you buy a cheaper car that gives you more money to spend on mods.

After each race, points are awarded based on placement and totaled at the end of the series to determine the winner.

After each race, extra credits are awarded to spend on your car. The loser gets the most credits to improve their ride while the winner gets the least. The goal is to rotate out leaders by giving underdogs a little more to spend on their cars.

Tires and Other Freebees)
Tires will be free (not included in budget) and compound restriction will increase with each race starting with Comfort tires and ending with Racing tires (or something along those lines). Paint, wheels, oil changes, engine rebuilds, and chassis rebuilds will also be free as there is no way to police that sort of thing. Aero kits are not free.

Race format)
Time: Wednesdays. Room opens for warmup at 9:30PM EDT (GMT -4). Race starts at 10:00PM.
Length: Each race will be roughly 1hr in length
Damage: Set to full -- cars involved in accidents will have to pit for repairs
Penalties: Off -- races will be reviewed and points/credits will be deducted as necessary. In short, follow GTP OLR rules.
Starting Grid: Single file start after one pace lap.

Instructions for the Pole sitter:
Maintain 40-60mph during the first lap to allow cars to line up single file. A few hundred feet before the start/finish accelerate to racing speed.

Instructions for everyone else:
Wait for the car in front of you to line up. Do not pass on the first lap. Passing is only allowed AFTER you cross the start finish line. Be prepared to start accelerating as you enter the last turn. Drive cautiously into the first few turns. The car in front of you likely will be running faster lap times so a divebomb to get around him won't do you much good.

Entering and Exiting the Pits:
Do not cross the white line. Yield to faster cars on the track in the first turn by staying on the same side of the track as the pit until you reach racing speeds.

Schedule)
X) April 13th -- Pre-season warmup -- Autumn Ring Mini -- Comfort Soft -- 60 laps
1) April 20th -- Grand Valley East Reverse -- Comfort Soft -- 60 laps
2) May 18th -- Cape Ring South -- Sport Hard -- 60 laps
3) May 25th -- Laguna Seca -- Sport Medium
4) June 1st -- Daytona Road Course -- Sport Soft -- 50 laps
5) June 8th -- Nurburgring 24hr -- Racing Hard -- 10 laps
6) June 15th -- Circuit De La Sarthe -- Racing Soft -- 20 laps

Awards)
1. = 20 Points, 20,000 cr
2. = 16 Points, 22,500 cr
3. = 13 Points, 25,000 cr
4. = 11 Points, 27,500 cr
5. = 10 Points, 30,000 cr
6. = 9 Points, 32,500 cr
7. = 8 Points, 35,000 cr
8. = 7 Points, 37,500 cr
9. = 6 Points, 40,000 cr
10-16. = 5 Points, 45,000 cr

* Award money can be banked until after next race
* Parts cannot be sold off once installed (if you purchase a sport exhaust and later want to upgrade to a racing exhaust you have to pay full price for it)
* Tires are free so money only has to be spent on performance mods

Keeping it Fair)
1. Driver chooses a car and submits spec so race steward prior to the start of the series. Initial price of car will be verified with mygranturismo.net prices (unless there is a way to see initial purchase price when a car is shared).

2. After each race, car purchase price and mods installed will be made public and cars must be shared for others to inspect.

3. Inspection process will involve verifying parts purchased are what is installed and lap times are consistent with those seen in the race.

4. Parts chosen for subsequent races must be submitted prior to the start of the next race and will not be made public until after the race is completed.

Season Results)
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...5udDdNaUxqUjB5dEVWeUJ3Tl81UzNTd1E&output=html

 

[leadbedr]

This sounds like alot of fun
Im in.

 

[chuyler1]

Sweet. That's one. Who else is game?

 

[gogatrs]

Me likee, but just a tad bit too late for me.
I need to be done by 10:00 during the week.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Day of the week matters to me. It couldnt be on Monday till the endurances end May 2. Did you know that the Altezza Touring Car is only 32K in the UCD?

EDIT: I mentioned the Monday thing because 3-4 of us currently run the Monday Night Enduro, it wasnt just about me.

 

[chuyler1]

Ok, good to know. We can make it Tues or Weds.

Did I know about the Altezza? Nope, but I do now Can you install comfort soft tires on it? Anyway, I think the series would be restricted to road cars. It looks like a 25-30k starting limit would put cars starting around 450pp, maybe a little more. I don't see any dead ringers under 30k that need to be banned. The catch will be to buy something that isn't too modded to start but responds well as mods are added. If you over-mod a car for the first race, you won't have much else to spend money on as the season progresses.

 

[xonant]

Sweet. That's one. Who else is game?

Chuyler sign me up. I'm already on your friends' list.

 

[gogatrs]

What about cars you receive from trades?
Can we use the cost of the car from mygranturismo?

 

[chuyler1]

You can use the value listed on mygranturismo if you don't remember the price you paid (or if it was a prize).

 

[gogatrs]

Cool, when do you think were going to get started?
I have to be done by 10:00 PM EDT on weekdays and can't race on Friday...

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I think this sounds wonderful, and while I am interested, I'm a horrible driver, so... probably best if I don't waste everyone's time.

Just a few thoughts:

As with all GT 5 leagues, there is some room for cheating. I see particular room here. Yes, a driver can share a car, but what is to keep him from having a second one with more kit?

Every system has a way to game it. In this case, I would recommending spending more on the car to begin with. No need buying a cheaper car to start with a healthy amount of bolt-on parts. Eventually you run the risk of running out of things to spend the money on.

I would include the tires in the spending limits. Still set tire limits per race, but I could completely rationalize a driver not getting any more benefit from a Sports Soft over a Sports Medium and deciding to spend the extra money on other parts.

 

[redreevos]

This sounds very intriguing to me. This could be a lot of fun with strategy as to car choice, and possible future upgrades.

The only thing that worries me is the damage on max. I strive to be an extremely clean racer. I have found that usually when someone makes a mistake in close quarters, it is the person that was racing clean that gets hit off the track. It is already unjust punishment that the clean racer gets knocked off the track. I think if the damage was on max, you will get some drivers very angry at other drivers.

I can understand that max damage is much more realistic in a racing series. But keep in mind, most racing series, have professional drivers at the helm. In online racing in GT5, people will have varying level of car control. On top of all that, in real life, it is much easier to sense where the car is next to you.

Great ideas for the series though. I like how well you thought out the whole thing. From car prices, to increase in tire ability, to increasingly wide open tracks. I hope this series is a go!

Rees

 

[chuyler1]

Cheaters will always find a way...but races will be reviewed and anyone parttaking in the series will be allowed to drive each other's shared vehicles after the race. If you take a shared car out on the track and cannot match the lap times of the other driver (within a certain margin of error) then obviously the driver had more modifications installed during the race and was doing a bait-and-switch.

I really don't want tires to be part of the equation. It makes for messy racing on the track when people run mixed compounds and no pro series would ever let someone run racing tires on the track at the same time as someone with sports tires. I want everyone to experience each tire compound.

As far as picking cars that are close to the initial budget...you are entirely correct. If the budget is 30k and you buy a 30k car, each race after you have lots of choices on where to spend your money. If you buy a 15k car and have already sunk 15k into it, when you get to the last race you may end up with money you can't spend. Your car may plateau too soon...but you could win a few races at the beginning and gain points early.

I really don't know what the best approach is going to be for starting car, nor do I know what mods will be the first purchased. Will driver pick power mods over a custom suspension? Who knows...but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

And about the damage. The start of the race is crucial. After that, I would expect drivers to use the same caution when following other drivers that they would in a real series. With a long race you probably will get involved in an altercation...but so won't everyone else. If you have a quicker car you'll have plenty of time to make back any time lost. When we get to tracks like Nurburgring, it will be about keeping the car on the track as much as it will be about putting down fast lap times. You don't want to squeeze every 10th out of Schreudenkreuz if it means risking running wide and driving on a broken suspension for the next 7 minutes until you can pit and fix it.

 

[redreevos]

And about the damage. The start of the race is crucial. After that, I would expect drivers to use the same caution when following other drivers that they would in a real series. With a long race you probably will get involved in an altercation...but so won't everyone else. If you have a quicker car you'll have plenty of time to make back any time lost. When we get to tracks like Nurburgring, it will be about keeping the car on the track as much as it will be about putting down fast lap times. You don't want to squeeze every 10th out of Schreudenkreuz if it means risking running wide and driving on a broken suspension for the next 7 minutes until you can pit and fix it.

It is your series. I would suggest you run a pre-season practice race, to make sure all the settings are how you want them for the full season. I race in 2 different series right now, with all competent clean racers. Even with that, I got punted off the track twice at the chicane at the Daytona road course. Each time, it dropped me between 6-9 spots. the first time I went from 1st to 10th. Because damage was on low, I was able to finish 3rd out of 16. This was an hour race.

If the damage was on high, I am sure my race would have been done. This from 2 incidents that were completely out of my control. I was frustrated at those 2 drivers for sticking their car in a place where they couldn't control it. It sucks to practice a course all week, just to be thrown off of the track by someone who misjudged a corner.

I am just trying to give you a perspective. If you have have raced in multiple series that have damage on max, and you like it, then don't let me tell you differently. I would just suggest to think about it, and try a pre-season race before finalizing everything.

Like I said before, very interesting looking series. I like your thoughts behind it.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

I'm very much looking forward to this. I'm a professional at buying cars for no reason from the UCD just because they are cheap or a color I want. (ie every green or yellow car I see) but now I can buy those cheap cars and have something to do with them. Just to clarify...we are merely limited by our imagination and price, correct?

 

[chuyler1]

A pre-season race is a must, along with a 3-lap warm-up before the actual race to acclimate drivers to the damage system. Anyone guilty of rough racing or poor judgment during the pre-seasion race or the warm-up will be ejected.

I have done a few races with damage on full. Typically the drivers that can't handle it crash in the first few laps. Clean drivers that understand you can't run hot laps behind another car typically do better. I have only had 5 or 6 drivers in these races though and they have been on relatively short tracks. I want the experience to be about endurance, not hot lapping. There will be considerable differences in car performance so in most cases you shouldn't have trouble waiting for the right time to pass. I have had 15 lap battles with some drivers with damage on full.

However, if the consensus is to put damage on weak then we can go with that, it just removes some amount of driver skill.

Maybe damage on full and penalties on weak would be a compromise. That'll prevent the 'punt' from penalizing the leading driver since the following driver usually ghosts when that is about to happen.

 

[chuyler1]

I'm very much looking forward to this. I'm a professional at buying cars for no reason from the UCD just because they are cheap or a color I want. (ie every green or yellow car I see) but now I can buy those cheap cars and have something to do with them. Just to clarify...we are merely limited by our imagination and price, correct?

i think the limitation will be to only allow general production vehicles. No race cars, rally cars, concepts, or limited production models. However, with a starting price of under 30k, I don't think there are any cheater cars...and if you win the first race with an awesome car, you have to remember that everyone else will have more credits to improve their cars on the next race.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

What about tuners? The tuner S2000 can be tuned to race 425 PP races up to 550 PP...will those types of cars be allowed. Most of them, as you know, come with parts already included.

 

[chuyler1]

Starting budget will be about 30,000cr. Can you get a tuner S2000 for that price? The cheapest Amuse S2000 is going to be about 49,000cr. If the prices are accurate at www.mygranturismo.net, there aren't any sleepers in the bunch. Skyline, Lancer, RX-7, Impreza. 30,000cr gets you anywhere from 400-460pp to start and you'll build from there depending on how you finish. Also keep in mind where you are going to finish. A light car might help you on the first race, but you'll want horsepower for max speed by the end when we run Le sarthe.

 

[gogatrs]

What about race mods?

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Good point about the tires.

Thinking about this though, I wonder... if you have a full room (or at least 10 drivers), and I run in this every week (Sunday-Thursday nights at 9:30 Eastern work best), then I will have 360,000 to spend by the end (I'm really that slow a driver).

I'll have to look over the parts later, but are there 330,000 credits worth of parts (not counting tires) that can be put onto a 30,000CR car?

I wish mygranturismo.net had complete information on which cars had adjustable front aero kits.

As an aside, I may look for your 450PP room tonight. I was in one before, weeks ago, but it was a very slow Pulsar. I could probably get a stock MX-5 to go faster.

p.s. Someone winning every week will only wind up with 210,000 to spend by the end. That would be a very impressive feat, though.

 

[chuyler1]

How much does the race mod cost?

I may need to adjust winnings so we don't max out cars too early.

 

[gogatrs]

It depends on the car.
I think it costed around 100,000 for the Cappuccino...

 

[chuyler1]

Well it's probably more credits for other cars. The Capp won't be competitive even with the RM. You'd have to save your winings from 2-3 races to afford it. It could be a strategy...but you could lose a lot of points in the races before you perform the RM.

 

[redreevos]

Hey Chuyler1,

I was just looking around and found your theme nights of the 450pp variety. I recognized several of the names there, as I have raced with them in other series. I hope to get to join you there for some of your racing(if you don't mind). It will give us a chance to get to know each other before this series starts.

Feel free to add me next time you are on the ps3, and I will try and do the same.

 

[chuyler1]

Sure thing. I am on almost every night hosting my 450pp room. Obviously one night is going to be sacrificed for this series once we have enough interest.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Starting budget will be about 30,000cr. Can you get a tuner S2000 for that price? The cheapest Amuse S2000 is going to be about 49,000cr.

Are we limited to premium vehicles? I was thinking of the Mugen and Spoon S2000 that roll through the UCD

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Well it's probably more credits for other cars. The Capp won't be competitive even with the RM. You'd have to save your winings from 2-3 races to afford it. It could be a strategy...but you could lose a lot of points in the races before you perform the RM.

A maxed RM Capps ends with 477PP and 137HP after 200 miles of use.

 

[chuyler1]

Yeah, so the Capp won't be competitive. You can get 477PP out of a Lancer or Skyline at the starting value of 30,000cr.

According to mygranturismo, the Mugen civic and Mugen S2000 are priced out of the 30k starting point.
http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=291
http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=631

If you see one in your UCD below that value, snap a photo of it before you buy it. Actually, that goes for any car where the value you see is drastically different than what is reported at mygranturismo.net. I don't think there is a way to validate the initial purchase price once you own the car so snapping a photo if it in your UCD will keep things fair to start. As for whether a tuner car would be allowed. I guess if you find one under 30k its game. The first race is only the beginning of this series.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Yeah, so the Capp won't be competitive. You can get 477PP out of a Lancer or Skyline at the starting value of 30,000cr.

According to mygranturismo, the Mugen civic and Mugen S2000 are priced out of the 30k starting point.
http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=291
http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=631

If you see one in your UCD below that value, snap a photo of it before you buy it. Actually, that goes for any car where the value you see is drastically different than what is reported at mygranturismo.net. I don't think there is a way to validate the initial purchase price once you own the car so snapping a photo if it in your UCD will keep things fair to start. As for whether a tuner car would be allowed. I guess if you find one under 30k its game. The first race is only the beginning of this series.

Place holder since I have to research more