Less Japanese cars, more regional cars

[Snaeper]

One of each R32-R34 Skyline GT-R is a premium, and there are a few V35/36s. The standards are mostly copy/pastes from almost 10 years ago, little to do with GT6...
No premium original Skyline GT-Rs, no R32-R34 Skyline GTSs. GT5 doesn't even have 10 premium Skylines (which is fine), and GT6 likely won't have anywhere near 27.

I don't quite understand your point here. Two wrongs (over-saturation of a single model) don't make a right.

He was referencing the fact that you said the Mustang hasn't had an impact outside of it's home market. I made the same point to you, about the R32-R34 GT-R's not really being relevant outside of Japan. The only reason they're even known outside of Japan (and their explosion in popularity as a result) can almost directly be attributed to Gran Turismo.

Granted, the GT-R's are world class performance vehicles, but so are the Mustang's. They just come in at entirely different price points, so you can't really compare the two directly.

(In response to the bolded part) And while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have always been a fan of the idea of PD/GT including more duplicate cars from American and European manufacturer, rather than slimming down the amount of Japanese cars that are in the game (granted, there are still some redundant models that could go.)

Your question on the Civic is neither here nor there.

I don't believe he was being entirely serious about that, just making a point.

 

[Exorcet]

If PD model 25 more mustangs, we wouldn't get that many of those Japanese sportscars either...

No one is asking for 25 Mustangs in place of anything. The list was to show that there is more than 1-2 Mustangs to place in a game like GT.

What people want is a balanced distribution of cars. If GT6 somehow has 2000 cars, we had better get at least 25 Mustangs. If it has 400 cars, I don't think anyone expects 25 Mustangs (or anythings).

 

[occasionalracer]

I hope PD has secretly sent out a couple guys to Europe and US to gather information on a nice assortment of cars. They don't have to all be powerful Sportscars, but should include some of the most frequently requested ones that I'm sure Kaz is getting 100's of messages about all day via twitter. But I don't want to see them drop half the cars we currently enjoy, that would be a great loss, plus they could also bring back some lost gems from previous iterations.

 

[Diogo]

hell they still missed some of the american cars that couldve been put in the game. i say bring back the aftermarket cars that some of the dealers had like Ford to Shelby. i also feel that not having Vauxhall in this game was a shame they really have nice cars and arent represented well

There are Vauxhalls in this game ....

 

[MustangRyan]

27 isn't too many, we don't know what the total number of cars is. If PD wants to provide 30+ Skylines, 27 Mustangs should be a lower bound.

And the Mustang isn't one of the most iconic American cars/sportscars ever?

I would like to point out though, that if GT represented the Mustang (and on that note, the Camaro and Corvette) with the same level of detail and passion that they do their Japanese cars, we'd have a very long list of Mustangs.

And while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have always been a fan of the idea of PD/GT including more duplicate cars from American and European manufacturer, rather than slimming down the amount of Japanese cars that are in the game (granted, there are still some redundant models that could go.)

No one is asking for 25 Mustangs in place of anything. The list was to show that there is more than 1-2 Mustangs to place in a game like GT.

What people want is a balanced distribution of cars. If GT6 somehow has 2000 cars, we had better get at least 25 Mustangs. If it has 400 cars, I don't think anyone expects 25 Mustangs (or anythings).

I think these posts above perfectly capture the way a lot of GT players feel across the world. It might not be about the Mustang, but tons of people feel this way about some car that is grossly underrepresented in the dealerships across the world of Gran Turismo. It's what causes all of these backlash posts against the 40+ Skylines, 20+ Imprezas, 25+ Miatas, 20+ Lancers. Why put that many cars in the game that are so similar, and not do it for other cars? With the 2000 Cobra R already in the game, they had a base model that could have been used to create any car on my list from 1999-2004. Yes, a lot of those cars on my list had different engine sizes. Some were N/A, some were supercharged (roots and centrifugal), and some were live-axle while others were IRS. But, they could have put forward a little effort into the Mustangs, and had a very nice selection.

 

[OHM_fusion]

I think these posts above perfectly capture the way a lot of GT players feel across the world. It might not be about the Mustang, but tons of people feel this way about some car that is grossly underrepresented in the dealerships across the world of Gran Turismo. It's what causes all of these backlash posts against the 40+ Skylines, 20+ Imprezas, 25+ Miatas, 20+ Lancers. Why put that many cars in the game that are so similar, and not do it for other cars? With the 2000 Cobra R already in the game, they had a base model that could have been used to create any car on my list from 1999-2004. Yes, a lot of those cars on my list had different engine sizes. Some were N/A, some were supercharged (roots and centrifugal), and some were live-axle while others were IRS. But, they could have put forward a little effort into the Mustangs, and had a very nice selection.

I agree completely. If PD put as much attention to American cars as they do to Japanese we would probably get not only Mustangs, Corvettes and Camaros of all generations, but also many not so internationally famous cars like Impalas, Crown Vics, Tauruses, Firebirds, and all kinds of Chevrolets, Fords, Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Cadillacs and others ranging from classics to everyday cars. I can only dream.

But I believe the problem is getting the cars so they can recreate them in the game. There aren't many of those in Japan. PD should probably open a few offices in America and Europe where they can scan the cars.

 

[dr_slump]

Your sales figure post was about Japanese cars and not European cars.

Oh that's why I listed the percentages for Japanese, European and American cars. Makes sense, makes sense......

The least important GT market is the only one that favors Japanese cars, yet you said "be happy they didn't include more Japanese cars".

Why? I suppose we shouldn't waste time with remembering that PD is a japanese studio, but yeah....

 

[Exorcet]

Oh that's why I listed the percentages for Japanese, European and American cars. Makes sense, makes sense......

I suppose looking back, you were actually replying to the popularity of US cars, or at least that's what it looked like given the quoted post by Earth. However, whatever it was you were trying to show, it seems as though most GT players might prefer non Japanese cars.

It's also not very conclusive for a number of reasons, especially the "European" example, which is Switzerland and not Europe.

Why? I suppose we shouldn't waste time with remembering that PD is a japanese studio, but yeah....

So what? That doesn't mean there needs to be 10 Japanese cars for every 3 non Japanese. I don't care where PD is from, Europe should definitely have the most car slots.

 

[dr_slump]

I suppose looking back, you were actually replying to the popularity of US cars, or at least that's what it looked like given the quoted post by Earth. However, whatever it was you were trying to show, it seems as though most GT players might prefer non Japanese cars.

It's also not very conclusive for a number of reasons, especially the "European" example, which is Switzerland and not Europe.

Switzerland is in Europe, I was saying "at least not here in switzerland:" as answer to the american cars thing. What's wrong? The "Europe" only tells that Switzerland is in Europe, nothing else.

So what? That doesn't mean there needs to be 10 Japanese cars for every 3 non Japanese. I don't care where PD is from, Europe should definitely have the most car slots.

Humans don't always do what would be the obvious "best".

 

[Exorcet]

Humans don't always do what would be the obvious "best".

That's not an excuse.

 

[dr_slump]

That's not an excuse.

Excuse or not, it is how it is. If you like it or not doesn't really matter in this context.

If I were japanese I'd prefer to have more japanese cars in GT5 too. Of course, this is in no way an objective point of view, but humans are never completely impartial.
I'd personally like to see more european cars in GT5, but heck... this is not everybodys opinion.

Just hope the best!

 

[dudejo]

The biggest irony with the number of American models is that GT2 had the best line-up of American icons.

 

[deep_sky]

If I were japanese I'd prefer to have more japanese cars in GT5 too.

Yeah that's fine, but PD abuse the privilege.

The biggest irony with the number of American models is that GT2 had the best line-up of American icons.

While definitely not an icon, I've wanted the Vector M12 to make an appearance. I had no idea Jeremy Clarkson called it the worst car in the entire world. lol

Seemed alright in the game...

 

[Antonisbob]

Not the biggest European or Japanese car fan, would prefer more American and Australian cars, to be honest.

 

[TheShadowBroker]

there can't be less Japanese cars 'cause Gran Turismo is from Japan, the only way other countries can have as many cars as Japan in the game is to open a Polyphony Digital studio in Europe and America so that Americans and Europeans can work on their own cars and then all nations merge into one massive list of cars, but that would mean the game will require four 50GB blu-ray discs or more.

 

[Samus]

there can't be less Japanese cars 'cause Gran Turismo is from Japan, the only way other countries can have as many cars as Japan in the game is to open a Polyphony Digital studio in Europe and America so that Americans and Europeans can work on their own cars and then all nations merge into one massive list of cars, but that would mean the game will require four 50GB blu-ray discs or more.

So much wrong with this. PD being in Japan is no excuse these days for not having a better split worldwide, they have a big enough budget. If other games can do it, so can they.

As for the last part, GT5 doesn't even fill a SINGLE LAYER 25GB Blu-Ray. I'm pretty sure they could fit thousands of cars onto one dual layer 50GB disc.

 

[thelvynau]

So much wrong with this. PD being in Japan is no excuse these days for not having a better split worldwide, they have a big enough budget. If other games can do it, so can they.

As for the last part, GT5 doesn't even fill a SINGLE LAYER 25GB Blu-Ray. I'm pretty sure they could fit thousands of cars onto one dual layer 50GB disc.

I agree with this there is no reasonable excuse to have way more japanese cars in this game I would have excused it in gt1 when they didnt have much of a budget but no excuses today.

 

[ak101]

I would like to see more Japanese cars, the ones that don't exist in the entire Gran Turismo series. Now there are many Japanese sports cars that desperately deserve a position in future Gran Turismo titles.
Below are the ten new cars that must bring hope to end the long trend of identical Japanese cars in Gran Turismo.

1. Honda Civic 4th Generation

2. Nissan Cherry 1.5 Turbo

3. Toyota Corolla GTi-16 AE92

4. Nissan Sunny ZX

5. Nissan Silvia S12

6. Mazda 323 1.6 Turbo 4x4

7. Subaru Impreza P1

8. Mitsubishi Evo FQ-400

9. Nissan Pulsar GTI-R

10. Honda Civic Coupe Vti 2001

 

[Ignition]

Come on guys, let's be realistic here.

What cars did they create specifically for Gran Turismo 5? The premium vehicles. As you can see there is a good balance of cars from different countries and there's not many examples of repeating models. What people are doing is taking notice of the standard models, which yes are part of the game. But would you rather have them removed all together? That wouldn't be very logical, it doesn't hurt to have more vehicles in the game even if they're not amazingly high quality. I think they are on the right road for Gran Turismo 6 to be honest, they just need to continue the diversity of premium models displayed in Gran Turismo 5

 

[deep_sky]

What cars did they create specifically for Gran Turismo 5? The premium vehicles. As you can see there is a good balance of cars from different countries and there's not many examples of repeating models.

Come on, this is nonsense. There are around 120 Japanese premium cars (that's nearly half), compared to around 45 USA premium cars, not counting a pitiful EU representation. The ratio is way off whether you're comparing standards, premiums or both together.

"they just need to continue the diversity of premium models displayed in Gran Turismo 5"

They haven't even started, but rather just carried on from where they left off with GT4 i.e. by continuing being Japan-centric. I don't see it getting any better with GT6 tbh. Even if they completely stopped modelling Japanese cars for a couple of years, at current pace, they'd have a job just balancing it out. GT6 is going to be just as Japan-centric as ever, IMO.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

But would you rather have them removed all together? That wouldn't be very logical, it doesn't hurt to have more vehicles in the game even if they're not amazingly high quality. I think they are on the right road for Gran Turismo 6 to be honest, they just need to continue the diversity of premium models displayed in Gran Turismo 5

Yes, I want them removed. And it is very logical to not want them, especially since PD doesn't even like them in GT5. We still can't use them in photo travel to this day. PD knows standard cars are an eye sore. I'm not buying a product from a company that doesn't take pride in their work.

If they're going to be in GT6, they better somehow find a way to decide whether or not you want them in your game.

 

[Ignition]

Come on, this is nonsense. There are around 120 Japanese premium cars (that's nearly half), compared to around 45 USA premium cars, not counting a pitiful EU representation. The ratio is way off whether you're comparing standards, premiums or both together.

"they just need to continue the diversity of premium models displayed in Gran Turismo 5"

They haven't even started, but rather just carried on from where they left off with GT4 i.e. by continuing being Japan-centric. I don't see it getting any better with GT6 tbh. Even if they completely stopped modelling Japanese cars for a couple of years, at current pace, they'd have a job just balancing it out. GT6 is going to be just as Japan-centric as ever, IMO.

If you minus the go Karts, Red Bulls and include one of each repeated race model/nascar heres what you get (Near exact, may have made the odd 1 miscount):

European: 80
Japanese: 95
American:28

So I'm not entirely sure where you got this view of a pitiful European presentation from?
Now if you look at the ratio of Japanese cars made for Gran Turismo 4 it's around 50%+. So as you can see, they created more of a diverse range of cars for Gran Turismo 5, so yes they did improve.

Official Cars in GT6 (You can find the full list on the forum):

Abarth : (1)
Alfa Romeo : (1)
Chevrolet : (2)
Ferrari : (1)
HYUNDAI : (2)
Plymouth : (1)

Sure it's only a small list, but a good indication that they're taking criticism on board. I think they will continue to include a more diverse range of vehicles and I think this is what they were trying to accomplish during GT5's development. But now they have all the premium models of GT5 which include many iconic Japanese cars already, they just need to include more American/European and a few Asian cars.

 

[Teflonicus]

Personally, I would purge the pick-up trucks out of GT and limit concept cars.

The trucks, or "utes," as we call them, I am indifferent to. I don't think they added much. The concept cars are a different matter, and over the GT series, concept cars have been a large part of the game.

The problem, for me, is that the concept cars in GT5 are ... old. Excepting the x2011, which is a fantasy car anyway, all of the concept cars have appeared in standard format, and so we all know there are no recent, say 2010, concept models in the game. Although I will admit there are exceptions, GT should include up-to-date and state-of-the-art concept cars in the best detail they can render them. Driving those was always a huge appeal to me.

 

[Tenacious D]

Not LESS cars. Always more. Likewise, not fewer race courses, more.

 

[Earth]

If you minus the go Karts, Red Bulls and include one of each repeated race model/nascar heres what you get (Near exact, may have made the odd 1 miscount):

European: 80
Japanese: 95
American:28

So I'm not entirely sure where you got this view of a pitiful European presentation from?
Now if you look at the ratio of Japanese cars made for Gran Turismo 4 it's around 50%+. So as you can see, they created more of a diverse range of cars for Gran Turismo 5, so yes they did improve.

Official Cars in GT6 (You can find the full list on the forum):

Abarth : (1)
Alfa Romeo : (1)
Chevrolet : (2)
Ferrari : (1)
HYUNDAI : (2)
Plymouth : (1)

Sure it's only a small list, but a good indication that they're taking criticism on board. I think they will continue to include a more diverse range of vehicles and I think this is what they were trying to accomplish during GT5's development. But now they have all the premium models of GT5 which include many iconic Japanese cars already, they just need to include more American/European and a few Asian cars.

There should never, ever be more Japanese cars in the game then European. There is no reasoning behind that outside of outright bias which Kaz had admitted to on several occasions. A fair and balanced game would have Euro cars outnumbering anything else by at least 3:2

Japanese Manufacturers

Acura
Autobacs
Daihatsu
Dome
Honda
Infiniti
Isuzu
Lexus
Mazda
Mitsubishi
Nissan
Subaru
Suzuki
Tommykaira
Toyota

European Manufacturers

AC Cars
Alfa Romeo
Alpine
Ariel Motors
Ascari
Aston Martin
Audi
Bentley
BMW
Bugatti
Capero
Caterham
Citroën
Cizeta
Dallara
Ferrari
Fiat
Jaguar
Jenson
Gillet
Ginetta
Gumpert
Isdera
Koenigsegg
Lamborghini
Lancia
Land Rover
Lister
Lotus
Maserati
Matra
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Mini
Noble
Opel
Pagani
Pescarolo
Peugeot
Porsche
Radical
Renault
Rolls-Royce
RUF
Saab
Spyker
TVR
Vauxhall
Volkswagen
Volvo

 

[IceMan PJN]

GT6 doesn't just need to diversify the car list with Japanese models accounting for a smaller percentage, but also needs more up-to-date car models. GT5 didn't even have the Audi R15, which was added to FM3 before GT5 even released, and FM4 now has the R18 while GT5 still has no Audi LMP more recent than the R10.

A fair and balanced game would have Euro cars outnumbering anything else by at least 3:2

Fox disagrees with you. For them, having a list of conservative hosts throughout their programming and almost exclusively with conservative guests counts as being fair and balanced. By their logic, PD could have 97% of the cars being from Japan and still qualify as fair and balanced.

 

[1241Penguin]

Official Cars in GT6 (You can find the full list on the forum):

Abarth : (1)
Alfa Romeo : (1)
Chevrolet : (2)
Ferrari : (1)
HYUNDAI : (2)
Plymouth : (1)

Sure it's only a small list, but a good indication that they're taking criticism on board. I think they will continue to include a more diverse range of vehicles and I think this is what they were trying to accomplish during GT5's development. But now they have all the premium models of GT5 which include many iconic Japanese cars already, they just need to include more American/European and a few Asian cars.

And in what way does this list mean that PD won't have any Japanese cars in GT6? How do you know based on this list that they won't have 50 Skylines?

 

[BubbleBelly542]

I think they need to even the car count out a bit more. GT has a huge fan base in non-Japanese countries, and it couldn't hurt sales. To be honest, I will buy the game as long as it has good features, but I will be disappointed if it's JDM dominated as I really don't like very many Japanese cars.

 

[Snaeper]

I'm under the firm belief that GT could increase it's American market share of GT titles by including an amazing selection of American cars, let alone European, Australian and world cars in general.

The American market was the best sales-wise when it came to GT3, but they've fallen second to Europe since GT4, GT5P and GT5. With... that other game... growing in the years since. If PD/GT could say "Let's just invest some time and diversify the cars" they'd almost automatically have the greatest car/racing game ever made. And that's before you add Livery Editor, more tracks, race modified versions of said cars, licensed racing series, etc.

 

[Ignition]

There should never, ever be more Japanese cars in the game then European. There is no reasoning behind that outside of outright bias which Kaz had admitted to on several occasions. A fair and balanced game would have Euro cars outnumbering anything else by at least 3:2

I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which was GT5 improved over GT4 on the ratio of Japanese to non Japanese cars created for the game. But yes I completely agree with you, I'm just trying to stay optomistic.

And in what way does this list mean that PD won't have any Japanese cars in GT6? How do you know based on this list that they won't have 50 Skylines?

The simple answer is I don't. All i said is that it's a good start, don't you agree?