Less Japanese cars, more regional cars

[Ven0m]

This thread is CONFIRMED...legit!!!!!!!!!

What?

 

[Nielsen]

I have nothing against the dominance of Japanese in Gran Turismo. I just don't want variations of cars which are identical except for a name difference such as GTO/3000 GT or Roadster/MX-5 etc. I'm European but that doesn't mean that I want more European cars. I like the Japanese bias and it's a balance that I accept and expect to be uneven.

 

[Ven0m]

There's a plethora of American cars that were snubbed in GT5. Need more of those in GT6. I like the Japanese bias though.

 

[sneakypete123]

Please dont take this as a personal attack.

Still waiting for premium Pontiacs, Chryslers, Cadillacs, Buicks, RUFS, Spykers, Saleens, etc.

Please GOD no!

Still waiting for GT to be a better global game in terms of maufacturers.

Dream on !

-Remember, it took FIVE PS console games to see Ferrari + Lamborghini. What gives?

Licensing, also the fact that Ferrari turned the GT series down because they didnt want to see their cars out performed, and this still stands with their f1 cars

Sweden deserves Koenigsegg to be represented.

Yes I would also like to see more of the manufactures thats produce few/one-off cars

Italy deserves De Tomaso.

Germany deserves RUFs and Gumperts.

RUF is an American tuning company but they do deserve more audi's, mercs, bmw's
They sell well all over the world.

America deserves premium Pontiacs, Buicks, Plymouths, Chryslers, Saleens, etc.

There are a few iconic USA built cars i'd like to see but the rest dont even deserve standard status

Korea deserves premium Kia and Hyundai (finally we'll see at least Hyudai)

For the love of GOD why?

Australia deserves premium Holdens.

Maybe

 

[tpark103]

What?

We need Less JDM and more variety.

 

[Ven0m]

Please dont take this as a personal attack.
Maybe

Chalk this up as anti-American. Moving on...

 

[Tornado]

Please dont take this as a personal attack.
Maybe

You get bonus points for saying RUF is an American tuning company rather than the obviously-German automobile manufacturer that it is.

 

[Exorcet]

Please dont take this as a personal attack.

Still waiting for premium Pontiacs, Chryslers, Cadillacs, Buicks, RUFS, Spykers, Saleens, etc.

Please GOD no!

Why?

Still waiting for GT to be a better global game in terms of maufacturers.

Dream on !

Is this a bad thing?

Sweden deserves Koenigsegg to be represented.

Yes I would also like to see more of the manufactures thats produce few/one-off cars

So wait, why not have Saleen, RUF, Spyker, Chrysler, and Cadillac, all of which have cars similar to Koenigsegg's.

RUF is an American tuning company

That happens to be German.

There are a few iconic USA built cars i'd like to see but the rest dont even deserve standard status

Why?

Korea deserves premium Kia and Hyundai (finally we'll see at least Hyudai)

For the love of GOD why?

How about their sports cars? Not very different from Japanese and US sports cars.

Australia deserves premium Holdens.
Maybe

Yes.

 

[Samus]

Why even waste your time responding to that nonsense?

 

[dr_slump]

Let's make things easier for future GT titles. Here are the worlds top four leading countries that manufacture the best in automobiles.

1. Germany
2. Japan
3. Italy
4. USA
5. Now simply minimising others

Yet we haven't seen the best of those automotive manufacturers listed above in the entire Gran Turismo series.

How can you forget/put aside France?

 

[MustangRyan]

As for the breakdown of American cars: there should probably be 7 or so Mustangs (focusing on the new and the originals, as 70s and 80s pony cars aren't exactly a hot commodity

You've got to be kidding me. We get 40+ Skylines with minimal variance between year and model, and the Ford Mustang gets 7 or so from the last 49 years? You are kidding, right? I could name that many "different" cars I would want just from 1999-2004's generation, without having a single car that was "the same" like we get with the Miatas and Skylines.


If you would like a real list of Mustangs from a Mustang enthusiast, these are my must-haves:


1964.5 Ford Mustang Convertible - the original classic
1967 Shelby GT500 - Think "Gone in 60 Seconds" - Nick Cage edition
1968 Ford Mustang GT fastback - Think "Bullitt"
1969 Ford Mustang Boss 302 - possible race mod, too
1969 Ford Mustang Boss 429
1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 428 Cobra Jet
1979 Ford Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car (turbocharged 2.3L 4 cylinder)
1988 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 - representing the Fox-body, a staple at local drag strips across America.
1993 SVT Mustang Cobra R
1996 SVT Mustang Cobra R
1998 Saleen S-351 Mustang
1999 Saleen S-281 Speedster Convertible
2000 Saleen SR Widebody (Not technically a Mustang, but a factory race car based on a 1999 Mustang Chassis/drivetrain, it was in Gran Turismo 2)
2000 SVT Mustang Cobra R - Currently in GT5
2001 Mustang GT Convertible - The first year of the new GT package, with larger hood and side scoops and tinted headlights
2002 Ford Mustang Bullitt Edition
2003 Steeda Q400 Mustang
2003 Ford Mustang Mach I
2003 SVT Mustang Mystichrome Cobra
2004 Roush Mustang 380R
2005 Ford Mustang GT-R concept
2007 Saleen Mustang Parnelli Jones Edition
2008 Shelby Mustang GT500 - 500hp
2008 Shelby Mustang GT500KR - 540hp
2008 Shelby Mustang GT500 Super Snake - 725hp -from an upgrade package available from Shelby Automobile factory in Las Vegas, NV
2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302
2013 Shelby Cobra GT500 - 662hp, the most powerful production V8 engine in the world, according to about.com.



That's "only" 27 Mustangs. That shouldn't be too hard to put together.

 

[ak101]

I would line them up like this

• AC Cars
• Ariel Motors
• Aston Martin
• Bentley
• Caterham
• Jaguar
• Jensen
• Lotus
• McLaren
• Mini
• Noble
• Rolls-Royce
• TVR
• Vauxhall

• 
  
  British motors should be limited in my opinion simply because majority of them are all bloody rubbish, carelessly made, still unreliable and way over priced due to high tax charges, all your paying for is tax and motoring misery.
  How can you miss out the most reliable british manufacturer ever existed? the award goes to Rover.

 

[finnracer]

British motors should be limited in my opinion simply because majority of them are all bloody rubbish, carelessly made, still unreliable and way over priced.
How can you miss out the most reliable british manufacturer ever existed? that name is Rover.

Bloody rubbish, carelessly made? That was BL back in the 70's . Britain has made some crap cars as every country has (mostly during the BL era) I wouldn't say Rover are the most reliable though (!) but I'd like to find out your experiences of how 'rubbish' they all are. I wouldn't say the Italians have much of a reputation for build quality but I doubt you'd want Ferrari's and the like to be cut down! Anyway, build quality and reliability are hardly the most relevant factors in a videogame...

 

[dr_slump]

So, a [poor, single country] representation of the largest GT market favors European (a lot of countries, not one nation) cars. The middle market favors US cars, and the smallest market favors Japanese cars.

Boah, better than nothing! It's quite hard to find exact numbers, but hey, go ahead and collect some numbers about the whole western european market. You'll probably need hours!
I already had the sales figures for the swiss market and I thought it would be good enough to show that european cars are by far the most popular cars here in europe (believe me, I was in many other european countries and you get pretty much the same picture there).
It's also a quite neutral view, because as example the germans obviously prefer their own cars, same with the french and italian people, etc.

 

[Tornado]

British motors should be limited in my opinion simply because majority of them are all bloody rubbish, carelessly made, still unreliable and way over priced due to high tax charges, all your paying for is tax and motoring misery.

Which is all completely irrelevant when it comes to the point of the topic. It makes no difference how high the taxes are on them, or how bad attention to detail was, or whether the interior parts was poorly assembled, or how bad depreciation is, or whether it would pass crash testing, or whether the electrical system is any good; because GT is first and foremost a racing game. Not a car ownership simulator.

The things that made British cars or American cars or Korean cars or Italian cars inferior quality in comparison to Japanese or German or whatever don't matter.

 

[ak101]

[QUOTE because GT is first and foremost a racing game. Not a car ownership simulator.[/QUOTE]

Your taking another direction in making your point. When did I mention anything about car ownership simulation. I would like future Gran Turismo titles with improved and well balanced car dealerships. In my opinion I would like to see fewer british motors. What's wrong with that?

 

[Exorcet]

I already had the sales figures for the swiss market and I thought it would be good enough to show that european cars are by far the most popular cars here in europe (believe me, I was in many other european countries and you get pretty much the same picture there).

Your sales figure post was about Japanese cars and not European cars. The least important GT market is the only one that favors Japanese cars, yet you said "be happy they didn't include more Japanese cars".

In my opinion I would like to see fewer british motors. What's wrong with that?

Your reasoning is silly. Why should anyone care that they're expensive or poorly made when they're being considered for a video game?

 

[ak101]

Your reasoning is silly. Why should anyone care that they're expensive or poorly made when they're being considered for a video game?

I doesn't matter what you think because very limited amounts of british cars have always been featured in the Gran Turismo series. I hope to see further reductions in future titles, the numbers are going down anyway.

 

[Exorcet]

Why does that matter at all?

 

[analog]

I doesn't matter what you think because very limited amounts of british cars have always been featured in the Gran Turismo series. I hope to see further reductions in future titles, the numbers are going down anyway.

That's also untrue, TVR and Aston Martin both featured in the very first GT which had only a handful of brands in total, making these British brands quite essential from the beginning and it has expanded ever since, especially since GT4 and I expect a lot of them to return in GT6.

The argument of them being low quality is irrelevant in a videogame where each car has the same build quality (unless you proclaim that polygons make a distinction when used on anything British somehow).
What I most of all don't understand is that you (or anyone) can't seem to find anything that you like in the rich British automotive history or dismiss an entire car building nation on an ancient cliche which although undoubtedly true in many regards is, again, completely irrelevant in a videogame.
If anything, the place to enjoy all British cars without all the downsides of real life ownership is GT.

 

[Tornado]

When did I mention anything about car ownership simulation

As soon as you started rattling off reasons that would only be relevant if you were going to buy one in real life.

 

[finnracer]

This weeks Autocar had a big feature on the British auto industry (going very well at the moment!) and I'd love too see all of the featured brands especially some of the minor ones! Can't see the numbers reducing, we make too many good and unique cars!

 

[Ven0m]

British motors should be limited in my opinion simply because majority of them are all bloody rubbish, carelessly made, still unreliable and way over priced due to high tax charges, all your paying for is tax and motoring misery.
How can you miss out the most reliable british manufacturer ever existed? the award goes to Rover.

Then I suppose Alfa Romeo shouldn't be in the game either? They have a long history of being unreliable. No. Who cares if they are poorly made. They should be in the game regardless if you like them or not.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Yes, Japanese volume means nothing when it comes to desirable or great cars, as the following lists support.

Bringing up a list of best selling cars right after stating "volume means nothing"?

In any case, your citations are very selective. Since you brought up American and European (well, British) sources, how about some Japanese lists?

Your sales figure post was about Japanese cars and not European cars. The least important GT market is the only one that favors Japanese cars, yet you said "be happy they didn't include more Japanese cars".

That's one way to interpret it. You could also interpret it by ranking of cumulative positions in each market. Japan has a gold (1st in Japan) and two silvers (2nd place in Europe and USA), better than either European or American cars.

The best way to look at the data would be by looking at total sales across the three markets, where the Japanese should have a clear advantage over the Americans and be close to Europe. Though, sales shouldn't matter much in such a thread anyway.

You've got to be kidding me. We get 40+ Skylines with minimal variance between year and model, and the Ford Mustang gets 7 or so from the last 49 years? You are kidding, right? I could name that many "different" cars I would want just from 1999-2004's generation, without having a single car that was "the same" like we get with the Miatas and Skylines.

If you would like a real list of Mustangs from a Mustang enthusiast, these are my must-haves:

• 
  
  That's "only" 27 Mustangs. That shouldn't be too hard to put together.

• Nobody is asking for 40 skylines and we probably won't get that many anyway. As possibly the most iconic Japanese sportscar ever, 10-12 Skyline road cars would be sufficient.
  
  27 Mustangs is too many. Far too many. We would be bound to lose out on Lotuses and Maseratis and the like if we got that many of any car, nevermind a car that only has a large impact in one market and has not changed that much over the years. Am I right in saying that all (most) Mustangs are very powerful, have an unsophisticated chassis and archaic suspension? What justifies having more Mustangs than total Ferraris? I simply don't get it.

 

[Exorcet]

27 Mustangs is too many. Far too many. We would be bound to lose out on Lotuses and Maseratis and the like if we got that many of any car, nevermind a car that only has a large impact in one market and has not changed that much over the years. Am I right in saying that all (most) Mustangs are very powerful, have a horrible chassis and archaic suspension? What justifies having more Mustangs than total Ferraris? I simply don't get it. Might you be a fanboy?

27 isn't too many, we don't know what the total number of cars is. If PD wants to provide 30+ Skylines, 27 Mustangs should be a lower bound. This is why percentages are useful in this thread.

And you're not right about the Mustang at all. They're all unique and have different characteristics, just like any other car. The Mustang is as varied as the entire Skyline range, Supra lineage, whatever.

EDIT

By the way, nothing in Ryan's post was biased. He was just providing an example list of unique and varied Mustangs that could put into a GT game without resorting to the GT4/5 "duplicates" (like the Midnight Purple GT-R's or renamed Miatas/MX-5's/etc). I could very easily do the same for Vipers.

As for the Mustang = terrible handling myth, the Boss cars were basically homologation cars. The SVT cars were also capable of much more than going straight, especially the 2000 Cobra R. The Mustang in general was also lighter and more agile than most muscle cars, which is why they were called pony cars.

 

[Tornado]

We would be bound to lose out on Lotuses and Maseratis and the like if we got that many of any car

You mean the Lotuses and Maseraties we would never get in the first place because PD need to be so much more focused on getting all of the Japanese sports cars first?

nevermind a car that only has a large impact in one market and has not changed that much over the years.

You mean like the R32-R34 Skyline GT-R (that we already have one of each of Premium, and god knows how many total), which was only officially sold in countries other than Japan for a handful of years and which spent the entirety of its 12 year span making subtle changes to the original R32 drivetrain?

Am I right in saying that all (most) Mustangs are very powerful, have a horrible chassis and archaic suspension?

Am I right in saying all (most) Honda Civics make crappy power, have the styling of a bread van and are as fun to drive as one to boot?

Might you be a fanboy?

May I suggest one of these:

It will get the job done quicker.

 

[Snaeper]

As possibly the most iconic Japanese sportscar ever, 10-12 Skyline road cars would be sufficient.

And the Mustang isn't one of the most iconic American cars/sportscars ever? I think the Camaro and the Corvette are the only other two that can come close. The Ford GT/GT40 could be included as well, thanks to it's enduring design and beauty.

27 Mustangs is too many. Far too many. We would be bound to lose out on Lotuses and Maseratis and the like if we got that many of any car, nevermind a car that only has a large impact in one market and has not changed that much over the years.

Japan has the Skyline/GT-R, NSX, RX-7, STI, Evo, Supra and a few others quite arguably. And cars like the GT-R had very little impact outside of the Japanese market before GT, while they practically became household names after GT. And there are Mustang clubs around the world, so it's not like it's a completely unknown car. Plus the vehicle is about to go Global, so it might be nice to see GT help Ford introduce the car's heritage.

The Mustang has changed about as much as any of those cars I listed above have. It also didn't have the luxury of disappearing and then re-appearing two decades later with a whole new attitude (like the GT-R).

Am I right in saying that all (most) Mustangs are very powerful, have a horrible chassis and archaic suspension? What justifies having more Mustangs than total Ferraris? I simply don't get it. Might you be a fanboy?

If by "archaic suspension" you're referring to the live rear axle, then yes. But really most Mustangs were built to be handlers (at least most of the ones in his list were). Sure some of the GT's and of course the V6's are not track kings, and the GT500's are more muscle car and pony car, but the various Cobra R's, SVO and BOSS variants were built for the turns, not the strips.

But yes, I believe he's quite biased... allow me to shorten up his list to a more manageable one that still represents the Mustang brand without much detail.

1964.5 Ford Mustang Convertible - the original classic
1967 Shelby GT500 (The original, not the movie version as suggested).
1968 Ford Mustang GT fastback - Think "Bullitt" (As much as I love McQueen and Bullitt, this is superflous next to the 302 and '67 Shelby).
1969 Ford Mustang Boss 302
1969 Ford Mustang Boss 429 (C'mon PD, tweak the physics and model the hood and you can easily make both of these)
1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 428 Cobra Jet (Again, this shared pretty much the same body style with the above two. I don't see the difficulty in changing the wheels, hood and tweaking the interior. However, the BOSS 302 is the one to pick if what I'm asking is a difficult task.)
1979 Ford Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car (turbocharged 2.3L 4 cylinder)
19XX Ford Mustang GT 5.0 - representing the Fox-body, a staple at local drag strips across America. (I completely agree, at least one year of LX Notchback should find it's way in the game. It's like the corn of performance cars.)
1993 SVT Mustang Cobra R
1996 SVT Mustang Cobra R (Cobra's are hard to turn down, Cobra R's are impossible. They're the best fit for GT).
1998 Saleen S-351 Mustang
1999 Saleen S-281 Speedster Convertible
2000 Saleen SR Widebody (Not technically a Mustang, but a factory race car based on a 1999 Mustang Chassis/drivetrain, it was in Gran Turismo 2) (I love the SR Widebody, but it's time has arguably passed and I doubt there is sufficient means that GT could get to properly model and render this car digitally, anyways.)
2000 SVT Mustang Cobra R - Currently in GT5
2001 Mustang GT Convertible - The first year of the new GT package, with larger hood and side scoops and tinted headlights (GT needs less convertible's as it is.
2002 Ford Mustang Bullitt Edition
2003 Steeda Q400 Mustang
2003 Ford Mustang Mach I
2003 SVT Mustang Mystichrome Cobra (I don't agree with Paint-job editions no matter the car.)
2004 Roush Mustang 380R (I love Roush, but they're hit-and-miss when it comes to the bodykits. This is a miss in my opinion, also too unknown and unloved to be relevant).
2005 Ford Mustang GT-R concept (I'll always love the GTR Concept, but again, this is a car that's past it's time. It'll be hard to put together proper reference material to model it, especially now that it's in private ownership hands.)
2007 Saleen Mustang Parnelli Jones Edition (Another hard car to cross off, as it's my favorite Saleen Mustangs, but there are other Saleen's that better communicate the brand design, and with the new Boss 302, this is rendered obsolete).
2008 Shelby Mustang GT500 - 500hp
2008 Shelby Mustang GT500KR - 540hp
2008 Shelby Mustang GT500 Super Snake - 725hp -from an upgrade package available from Shelby Automobile factory in Las Vegas, NV
2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302
2013 Shelby Cobra GT500 - 662hp, the most powerful production V8 engine in the world, according to about.com.

That's a bit better. Could further remove the Bullitt edition and two of the '08's... but they're notable enough to be kept on there. Ultimately, though, there's only about 9 cars on there that would really represent Mustang:

'64.5 Original
'67 Shelby GT500
'69 (One of the BOSS')
'XX LX 5.0 Notchback
'XX One of the two early Cobra R's
'00 Cobra R
'03 Mach 1
'08 (One of the Shelby's, meet in the middle at the KR? Of course then, you'd be just one graphics package and supercharger away from the Super Snake... and that would mean you'd skip the more iconic original re-interpretation of the regular GT500! Decisions!)
'12 BOSS 302
'13 GT500.

That's just going off of his list though, there are some other 'stangs that deserve a place on the list that he seemed to ignore or forget (SVO, '04 Normal Cobra, Shelby GT350's, etc.) But I guess that's all up to interpretation.

 

[Tornado]

I'd rather have a New Edge Saleen then the warmed over GT that was the Bullitt and Mach 1. Or at least a New Edge SVT Cobra, Terminator or not.

 

[Snaeper]

I'd rather have a New Edge Saleen then the warmed over GT that was the Bullitt and Mach 1. Or at least a New Edge SVT Cobra, Terminator or not.

Hey now! The Mach 1 was a bit more than "warmed-over"

I'd sooner pick it over the non-Terminator New Edge SVT Cobra's. But it'd lose to a Saleen (in choice), easily.

I would like to point out though, that if GT represented the Mustang (and on that note, the Camaro and Corvette) with the same level of detail and passion that they do their Japanese cars, we'd have a very long list of Mustangs.

 

[SagarisGTB]

You mean the Lotuses and Maseraties we would never get in the first place because PD need to be so much more focused on getting all of the Japanese sports cars first?

If PD model 25 more mustangs, we wouldn't get that many of those Japanese sportscars either...

You mean like the R32-R34 Skyline GT-R (that we already have one of each of Premium, and god knows how many total), which was only officially sold in countries other than Japan for a handful of years and which spent the entirety of its 12 year span making subtle changes to the original R32 drivetrain?

One of each R32-R34 Skyline GT-R is a premium, and there are a few V35/36s. The standards are mostly copy/pastes from almost 10 years ago, little to do with GT6...
No premium original Skyline GT-Rs, no R32-R34 Skyline GTSs. GT5 doesn't even have 10 premium Skylines (which is fine), and GT6 likely won't have anywhere near 27.

I don't quite understand your point here. Two wrongs (over-saturation of a single model) don't make a right.

Am I right in saying all (most) Honda Civics make crappy power, have the styling of a bread van and are as fun to drive as one to boot?

My wording was inappropriate, my apologies. Instead of "horrible", it would have been far more appropriate to say "unsophisticated" (EVO's words on the new Mustang's chassis).

And I wasn't bashing the Mustang there, the Mustang is fun because it's a powerful brute. The new Mustang is not technically a world class car, but I don't think it tries to be; it delivers a lot of power and style for not a lot of money.

Your question on the Civic is neither here nor there.