Let's ban spanking!

  • Thread starter DuckRacer
  • 28 comments
  • 1,453 views

DuckRacer

Premium
10,164
I just heard this on Fox News, this is utterly ridiculous.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/16487654.htm

No-spank bill on way
By Mike Zapler
MediaNews Sacramento Bureau
SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?

Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.

Making a swat on the behind a misdemeanor might seem a bit much for some -- and the chances of the idea becoming law appear slim, at best -- but Lieber begs to differ.

``I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger,'' Lieber said. ``Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?''

The bill, which is still being drafted, will be written broadly, she added, prohibiting ``any striking of a child, any corporal punishment, smacking, hitting, punching, any of that.'' Lieber said it would be a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000, although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes.

The idea is encountering skepticism even before it's been formally introduced. Beyond the debate among child psychologists -- many of whom believe limited spanking can be effective -- the bill is sure to face questions over how practical it is to enforce and opposition from some legislators who generally oppose what they consider ``nanny government.''

``Where do you stop?'' asked Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who said he personally agrees children under 3 shouldn't be spanked but has no desire to make it the law. ``At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines.''

One San Jose mother of three said she believes spanking is a poor way to discipline children, but she also wondered whether a legislative ban makes sense. Should a mom who slaps her misbehaving kid in the supermarket, she asked, be liable for a crime?

``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of disciplining and redirecting their children.''

Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal expert in children's issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said that while banning spanking might seem like a radical step for the United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden was the first, in 1979.

Nazario said there's no good rationale for hitting a child under 3, so the state should draw a ``bright line'' in the law making it clear.

``Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their own size?'' asked Nazario, a professor at the University of San Francisco Law School. ``Everyone in the state is protected from physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define that as physical violence.''

It's unclear how a spanking ban would be enforced. Most slapping, after all, happens in the confines of a home, and most children up to age 3 aren't capable of reporting it.

Doctors, social workers and others who believe a child has been abused are required by law to report it to authorities. Nazario said he and Lieber are still debating whether to treat slapping the same way, or simply to encourage those who witness it to report it. But in either case, said Lieber, the law ``would allow people who view a beating to say, `Excuse me, that's against the law.' ''

Experts in child psychology disagree over whether spanking is a legitimate or effective way for parents to discipline their children. Professor Robert Larzelere, who has studied child discipline for 30 years, said his research shows spanking is fine, as long as it's used sparingly and doesn't escalate to abuse.

``If it's used in a limited way,'' the Oklahoma State University professor said, ``it can be more effective than almost any other type of punishment.'' He added that children 18 months old or younger shouldn't be spanked at all, because they can't understand why it's happening.

As for Lieber's proposal, the professor said: ``I think this proposal is not just a step too far, it's a leap too far. At least from a scientific perspective there really isn't any research to support the idea that this would make things better for children.''

But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit.

``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.''

Now, how do you like them apples? You slap your kid on the butt, you go to jail.




:crazy:
 
``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.''
Yes. Flawless logic. But regardless, when one of our cats urinates on the floor, they sure as hell get whacked.
``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,''
"If my 13 year-old smokes marijuana, I'm no going to whack him. He is just going to be in and out of jail for the rest of his life."
Really, why bother using discipline on your child when you can just make him learn the hard way?



I mean, come on. This is hilarious! I bet the supporters of this bill will say that children who were spanked went on to a life of crime or some other such nonsense, instead of having plain-old neglectful parents.
 
Yeah... that will be as enforceable as their "no smoking anywhere" law. :rolleyes:

People here are really getting stupid.
 
Dude, what the ****? And we just moved to California too...

Welcome to a Blue State. Well, you moved from a Blue State, so it shouldn't be that bad. You should be quite familiar with the inconsistent idiocy and "moral authority" of the Democratic party.
 
I mean, come on. This is hilarious! I bet the supporters of this bill will say that children who were spanked went on to a life of crime or some other such nonsense, instead of having plain-old neglectful parents.
When I was little I got whacked on several occasions. I can honestly say it didn't do any lasting damage, nor is it something I look back on and think was big black point in my life. One thing I do remember is why I got hit.

I see some parents around that use this "never hit your childeren" approach to raising thier childeren, and when the child decides to do what it wants the parents just keep telling it to stop. Thats it. Childeren need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. It's more unfair and harmful to let a child find out for himself that pouring hot chip fat onto himself or someone else is a bad idea than stopping him and spanking him.

The people that come up with these ideas are retards.
 
I reckon it's alright if a father hits his son on his backside not too hard or too soft, but if it causes say injury then it is a different story.
 
Whn I was little I got whacked on several occasions. I can honeslty say it didn't do any lasting damage, nor is it something I look back on and thing was big black point in my life. One thing I do remember is why I got hit.

Me too. I remember exactly what I did in 2nd grade that got me spanked. I don't think I'll ever forget.

I think at some point kids have to understand that they don't have power in the situation. Spanking is a very concrete representation. It gets through the mind of a child, which cannot grasp the abstract concepts that many people wish they could.

I know it has already been mentioned in this thread but you cannot treat children like adults. You can't hit adults because adults have rights and can be held responsible. Kids don't have the same rights as adults, and it's hard to hold them responsible for their actions.
 
I can almost understand banning the spanking of babies and very small children (only to the extent that it probably shouldn't be done -- not that I think the government has a right to decide), but once they can talk and walk, you can bet your ass (no pun intended) that they should get a spanking when they earn one.
 
I presented this on another forum and got this reply:
And I find it hilarious when children go to school covered in bruises because their parents hit them as punishment! Haha!

I can see the bad effects of the bill, but there are ways around spanking a child. You can take away all electronics from them and ground them from going out. There's many different ways to punish a child, and spanking should be a last resort. It's unnecessary.

Psychologists have also found that children who have been spanked will spank their children as well. A vicious, unhealthy cycle that could virtually never end.
I'd like to see how you will react to this. I've already done so, and I will compare what you people say to what I already said. Have fun.
 
Ya, I am going to take the electronics away from a four year old. That will show him!

I grew up being spanked, and knowing that if I crossed a line I would be spanked. I would like to think that I turned out well.

I work with children and can clearly see the difference between those who are spanked/sternly disciplined and those who are not. The spanked kids do what they are told for the most part. The unspanked kids do whatever they want because there is no fear of punishment.
 
I presented this on another forum and got this reply:

I'd like to see how you will react to this. I've already done so, and I will compare what you people say to what I already said. Have fun.

Okay:

Some guy
You can take away all electronics from them and ground them from going out. There's many different ways to punish a child, and spanking should be a last resort. It's unnecessary.
Taking away electronics and grounding isn't enough, especially if you only do one or the other. When I would be sent to my room, I'd just play Nintendo, and if I couldn't do that, then I'd just draw or find something else interesting to do. If I was only barred from playing Nintendo or watching TV, I'd just go outside. The only reason why I learned anything from the times I was sent to my room or whatever was because I was often spanked immediately before being sent in, or threatened with spanking if I didn't follow instructions again.

Kids will be kids, and if they think they're clever, they'll learn to shrug off certain types of punishment, or play mindgames with their parents. The only punishment that is never a game is spanking.

Some guy
Psychologists have also found that children who have been spanked will spank their children as well. A vicious, unhealthy cycle that could virtually never end.
It's a cycle alright, but not vicious or unhealthy. I'll probably spank my children simply because I know from first-hand experience that it's a very effective and rather harmless way to discipline your children. I mean, yeah, it hurt (that's the point), but I was never scarred emotionally or physically because of it.

Perhaps people are confusing "spanking" and "beating?"
 
Taking away electronics and grounding isn't enough, especially if you only do one or the other. When I would be sent to my room, I'd just play Nintendo, and if I couldn't do that, then I'd just draw or find something else interesting to do. If I was only barred from playing Nintendo or watching TV, I'd just go outside. The only reason why I learned anything from the times I was sent to my room or whatever was because I was often spanked immediately before being sent in, or threatened with spanking if I didn't follow instructions again.

Kids will be kids, and if they think they're clever, they'll learn to shrug off certain types of punishment, or play mindgames with their parents. The only punishment that is never a game is spanking.


It's a cycle alright, but not vicious or unhealthy. I'll probably spank my children simply because I know from first-hand experience that it's a very effective and rather harmless way to discipline your children. I mean, yeah, it hurt (that's the point), but I was never scarred emotionally or physically because of it.

Perhaps people are confusing "spanking" and "beating?"
Very similar to what I said:
Myself
Guy
And I find it hilarious when children go to school covered in bruises because their parents hit them as punishment! Haha!

Likewise, I find it hilarious that you find spanking to be synonymous with beating. My parents spanked me when I did something wrong to ensure I didn't do it again. I never was bruised or seriously injured by it.
Guy
You can take away all electronics from them and ground them from going out. There's many different ways to punish a child, and spanking should be a last resort. It's unnecessary.
Because they certainly couldn't just sneak out to a friends house to get around your punishment. Punishment like that simply does not work with many children, such as myself, because we were far to crafty than we were given credit for.
Guy
Psychologists have also found that children who have been spanked will spank their children as well. A vicious, unhealthy cycle that could virtually never end.
Psychologists have also found that spanking used in moderation can be a very effective form of punishment because it teaches a child that what he/she did was wrong when the reasoning alone behind the words spoken to the child aren't understood.
 
Set phasers to stun.

lmao.gif
lmao.gif
lmao.gif
lmao.gif
Oh god... I gotta save that when I get home from work.
lmao.gif
 
Welcome to a Blue State. Well, you moved from a Blue State, so it shouldn't be that bad. You should be quite familiar with the inconsistent idiocy and "moral authority" of the Democratic party.

Emphasis on "Inconsistant Idiocy" if you ask me. I'll say that some kids deseved to be spanked.
 
As a kid raised in the final days of the era in which you could not only spank your kids, but basically do what you pleased outside of killing them, I have to say that these idiotic ideas about raising children get us nowhere.

Take for example my two younger siblings raised more than a half-decade after me, and by a different mother who doesn't condone physical punishment. To basically sum up their attitudes and their actions, they are two of the most miss-behaved kids I've ever known, and no matter how much hollering, time-outs, or other crap gets "taken away," nothing ever gets accomplished in teaching them a lesson. They know that as long as they manage to hold-out, they'll be able to do what they've been doing without any major consequences.

Simply put, boundaries don't exist for kids anymore. I knew when I was in trouble by the look my parents gave me. Even after they were divorced, I knew that I was in for it and that I would receive equal punishment if I did anything wrong. Be it a spanking from Mom, an ear-twist from Dad, soap-in-mouth from either of them, or hell even a beating from Grandpa with Dad's old telephone-wire was enough to scare me straight.

...I may as well make this clear now. I think our generation will do a damn-good job of rewinding the punishment clock just a bit, as we have managed to grow up seeing these kids walk around without any sense of consequence for their actions. I plan to knock the hell out of my kids if they do something wrong, be it at home or in public. I see kids running around in my store knocking crap over, jumping up-and-down on our ladders, and generally causing trouble is simply inexcusable. What do they get? "STOP IT! STOP IT! NO HAPPY MEALS!"

...That isn't going to stop them from doing anything. They need a strong backhand across the face or a hard slap on the ass. When they get home, the paddle is coming out, ten-strikes, and no desert. Thats the way it should be. Did I mention they are grounded for a week too? I don't care if my kids don't like me, but they MUST follow the rules, and they MUST know the consequences if they don't...
 
As a kid i can remember having my mouth washed out with soap and being spanked with a pretty big plastic ruler, and it sure as hell stopped me from doing whatever i did again. ( The soap one was because i said the f-word ) Its also a matter of race too. black and latin people are DEFINATELY more ruff with their children than white people nowadays.

I tend not to even look at any news coming out of california because it seems to be some of the stupidist, most ignorant bs ive heard in my life
 
I've never heard a kid crying, "No, anything but that!!! Not . . . .Time Out ! ! ! ! ! !"

I've always wanted to "help" parents I see in the grocery store or somewhere who can do nothing better than beg their children to behave. You can't promise them a future punishment (grounding, timeout, removal of TV, etc), they have no concept of time. It's "So what?" to them, and it shows. They're not "Pushing their boundaries," they're SETTING them. Wherever they please. The consequence of an action has to be firmly linked with the action in their memory, as a few have pointed out earlier in the thread, how they remembered a specific spanking and why (and more importantly, agreed with it.) Children are growing up without respect for authority, because they know that without consequence to their behavior, there IS no authority. The next thing they lose (or never learn in the first place) is respect for each other. Have any of you visited a classroom of 14-year-olds recently? There is not enough money in the world to be a middle school teacher, without that short board with the handle being available.
Speaking of which, have you noticed that most of the parents who say there's no place for corporal punishment in schools are the same ones who say, "Not my Johnie!!" when called to pick him up for being suspended for skipping classes?
 
As a kid i can remember having my mouth washed out with soap and being spanked with a pretty big plastic ruler, and it sure as hell stopped me from doing whatever i did again. ( The soap one was because i said the f-word ) Its also a matter of race too. black and latin people are DEFINATELY more ruff with their children than white people nowadays.

I tend not to even look at any news coming out of california because it seems to be some of the stupidist, most ignorant bs ive heard in my life

Dont forget the Chinese oh my god the Chinese... my mamas whipped my ass with rolling pin when shes really pissed. :scared:
 
ive noticed that whenever im in the store or mall theres always a little kid disrespecting his parents. its always the same thing too "johnie put that down", "No", "Johnie please put that down", "No", "johnie, if you dont put that down ill put you in timeout", "So what", "ill take away your xbox", "So", and so on and so on. todays parents are just to chicken:censored: to spank their kid.

on another point, they shouldn't let little kids have xbox's and such because our next generations are going to be rally fat and lazy. I remember as little kid only having a playstation with two games ( gt1 and gt2 of course ) and the only reason i had that was because i was playing soccer. usually id get bored or mad at my playstation and go outside and play soccer with my sister or see how many times i could juggle the ball. with an xbox, ps2, ps3, etc.... a little kid can be playing for hours and hours on end and never have the urge to just go outside and do something.
 
Back