Lets drop the BOMB ! Or maybe not ?

[a6m5]

Sadly, at least from the American point of view, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be justified. This is because Japanese were right behind the U.S. in development of their own atomic bomb, and I have no doubt in my mind(and I'm Japanese), Imperial Japan would have used it against the U.S.

I'd also like to mention that bombing of civilians went on long before the atomic bombs. U.S. Army bombers pretty much destroyed all major cities in Japan. They just did Hiroshima and Nagasaki with different type of bombs. My grandmother actually were almost shot by one of the escort fighter planes. Her friend who was right next to her were blown away by their guns. 👎 According to her, those fighters frequently shot civilians for sport. I'm sure Japanese side were guilty of similar activities. Robert McNamara, who Touring Mars mentioned, actually admitted that he'd been an war criminal, had the U.S. side lost the war.

This is why I'd never go to war, unless the survival of my countries(Japan/U.S.) depended on it.

 

[vladimir]

explain that .

i did.

How does the amount of books read become a qualification ? Why do you assume I have not researched it ? Did you read anything in the links I provided ?
I did read them . I have also read every book in english that I could find on the subject . I have read books by German , English, American and Japanese authors of differing views. I have read the Biographys of all the major players in the decision . I have read all the books I could find on the bomb itself and what went into developing it . I have also studied Japanese military history . I have studied Japanese culture .I do not consider myself an expert ...far from an expert..I am still learning but I am well informed on the subject . But of course you are sure of the subject .

i looked into those links, although half of them is not working.
first of all, you call doug-long.com biased and then refer to a site that already starts with the sentence "Why America Was Right To Drop The Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki". thats a kind of religious approach. its not "was the bombing justified?" and then following a research into the subject. no the result comes first and then the truth is twisted so that it fits the result.
then you got some government sources there, interesing yes, but not always helpful. would you listen to goebbels if you wanted some facts?
anyway, there was one interesting site within your links.
http://www.instadv.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1297
that does not quite support your standpoint, does it?

This statement proves you are not very well informed at all .

you call this biased:
And so from November 1944 onward, Japan was the subject of numerous large-scale B-29 non-nuclear bombing raids (Robert Butow, Japan's Decision To Surrender, pg. 41). When Air Force chief General Hap Arnold asked in June 1945 when the war was going to end, the commander of the B-29 raids, General Curtis LeMay, told him September or October 1945, because by then they would have run out of industrial targets to bomb (Sherry, pg. 300 & 410(143n)).

While Japan was being bombarded from the sky, a Naval blockade was strangling Japan's ability to import oil and other vital materials and its ability to produce war materials (Barton Bernstein, ed., The Atomic Bomb, pg. 54). Admiral William Leahy, the Chief of Staff to President Roosevelt and then to President Truman, wrote, "By the beginning of September [1944], Japan was almost completely defeated through a practically complete sea and air blockade." (William Leahy, I Was There, pg. 259).
if it is, then it should be easy for you to correct it instead of just assuming it was biased.

Why ? Why is it less moral than burning them to death with incindiarys or starving them by blockade or blowing them up with high explosives ? Or a combination of all of the above .

who said they should have starved them? i am sure they would still be able to feed themselves. and its not like at this point of the war there was still a lot of regular trading going on.
[/quote]

Why did a rule book suddenly appear on what you are allowed to do to win ?
Why do you have to justify it beyond how it will effect YOUR country . You are in a war to win and by fighting it you are protecting yourself ...especially if you were attacked first and forced to declare war . Do you get extra points for letting more of your people die just to be nice ? What war was ever won by your standards ?

you are first of all in a war to defend yourselves. but thats something americans have never understood.
this rule book appears in that very moment you demand others to view the war as justified, and that is what you are doing here.
with your thread you demand us to do something, but if you want us to do something you have to play by our rules.

Your bias is showing . Come back when you decide to be rational
ra·tion·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rsh-nl)
adj.
Having or exercising the ability to reason.
Of sound mind; sane.
Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See Synonyms at logical

your so funny!

 

[ledhed]

The fact that the war ended after the use of nuclear weapons is the only justification for using them... but the world was a very different place in 1945.... the US were the only nuclear power, and they were able to end the war by using those weapons. In the context of WWII, I think that the use of the atomic bomb was justified, but it cannot be so today

This is one of the sanest statements ever uttered on this board . I am so against nucular weapons at this point in time its scary .......BUT.......as long as they exist it would be suicidal for the US not to have them ....suicidal to use them ...a very strange and scary situation to be in . With nukes I use the first rule of common sense . " Anything capable of destroying the world and all life on it cant be a good thing . " But that being said I can see how in the context of WW2 and the conditions surrounding its use the A Bomb was justified. Even though I hate the fact it was even invented and exist in the world today.

i looked into those links, although half of them is not working.

They are all working for me I just checked them again . I checked them before posting also .

i looked into those links, although half of them is not working.
first of all, you call doug-long.com biased and then refer to a site that already starts with the sentence "Why America Was Right To Drop The Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima & Nagasaki". thats a kind of religious approach. its not "was the bombing justified?" and then following a research into the subject. no the result comes first and then the truth is twisted so that it fits the result.
then you got some government sources there, interesing yes, but not always helpful. would you listen to goebbels if you wanted some facts?
anyway, there was one interesting site within your links.
http://www.instadv.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1297
that does not quite support your standpoint, does it?

I guess your eyes missed the part were I said I looked into ALL SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT over many years and by different authors from various countrys before I came to my conclusions.....You know without a bias ....or is that a strange concept ?

Let me know what you find in your " very consise article " that answers the questions I pose above . When you make a decision that " its wrong to drop Atomic bombs " and then go in search of reasons to justify your opinion you get articles like that . Its called bias . I prefer objectivity . I prefer to see both sides ....hell all twenty one sides of the argument .

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA...Strategy-M.html
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA...pageNum-29.html
http://www.cia.gov/csi/monograph/42...csi9810001.html
http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/downfall.html
http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/invade.htm
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/nuclear_02.shtml
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/dr06.htm
http://www.mbe.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/surrender.htm
http://www.instadv.ucsb.edu/pa/display.aspx?pkey=1297
http://members.aol.com/dalecoz/WW2_1297.htm
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistl...large/index.php
http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academ...webquests/wwii/
http://www.dannen.com/decision/
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/hamby.htm
http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomic.htm

read it..... all sides of the argument are in there . I have about 33 more but these should do . I have read them all .

you call this biased:
And so from November 1944 onward, Japan was the subject of numerous large-scale B-29 non-nuclear bombing raids (Robert Butow, Japan's Decision To Surrender, pg. 41). When Air Force chief General Hap Arnold asked in June 1945 when the war was going to end, the commander of the B-29 raids, General Curtis LeMay, told him September or October 1945, because by then they would have run out of industrial targets to bomb (Sherry, pg. 300 & 410(143n)).

While Japan was being bombarded from the sky, a Naval blockade was strangling Japan's ability to import oil and other vital materials and its ability to produce war materials (Barton Bernstein, ed., The Atomic Bomb, pg. 54). Admiral William Leahy, the Chief of Staff to President Roosevelt and then to President Truman, wrote, "By the beginning of September [1944], Japan was almost completely defeated through a practically complete sea and air blockade." (William Leahy, I Was There, pg. 259).
if it is, then it should be easy for you to correct it instead of just assuming it was biased.

I answered this argument in the post with the links . Japan was not defeated being close means nothing . Japan was close to defeat the day they bombed Pearl Harbor .

who said they should have starved them? i am sure they would still be able to feed themselves. and its not like at this point of the war there was still a lot of regular trading going on.

This is so stupid I wont even bother except to say...you really need to find out some things about Japan...like the lack of land to grow food on etc. etc. Not to mention they were already starving from lack of food before a tight blockade....

you are first of all in a war to defend yourselves. but thats something americans have never understood.
this rule book appears in that very moment you demand others to view the war as justified, and that is what you are doing here.
with your thread you demand us to do something, but if you want us to do something you have to play by our rules

An extremely naive statement...you defend yourself by winning and removing the leaders that attacked you in the first place along with the military threat they represent. Unless of course you take the French view and just surrender or the German view and just kill them all and move into their country. Yes you are right Americans do not understand those views .

your so funny!

Thank you I try my best at times .

 

[Danoff]

Answering the poll requires one more piece of information - were you justified in going to war in the first place? The answer to that is my answer to the poll.

 

[Grand Prix]

Go ahead, drop the bomb on Syria and Iran. See if anyone cares. Who knows, maybe Bush will be seen as a saviour for ending the war on terror. Or maybe he will be nuked with a home-made plutonium bomb. Hmmmmm.

 

[VT]

Go ahead, drop the bomb on Syria and Iran. See if anyone cares. Who knows, maybe Bush will be seen as a saviour for ending the war on terror. Or maybe he will be nuked with a home-made plutonium bomb. Hmmmmm.

You do realize this thread is about WWII right?

As to your post, there can be no justification for nuking anyone in the modern day as everyone has atleast one nuke. Not only are modern nuclear weapons hundreds of times more powerful, but using just one of them would set off a chain reaction among other countries that would wipe all life off this planet.

As for back then, YES, dropping the bomb was justified. Japan was developing their own nuclear weapon and they would have used them against the US in a heartbeat.

It doesn't matter what America does, to some people we're always wrong. FFS we would be chastised if we found a cure for cancer.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

As for back then, YES, dropping the bomb was justified. Japan was developing their own nuclear weapon and they would have used them against the US in a heartbeat.
.

And the Germans, they would have loved to drop one on you and their former allies the Russians, except that Hitler didn't have the sense to commission a tactical long range bomber I don't know how he thought he would deploy them.

It was a race, no one quite knew how devastating they were, or understood the long and short term effect of gamma radiation at the time.

Oppenheimer made the break through of using a neutron to smash into the nucleus.
Previously alpha particles were being used, but they had to put more energy in than they got out.
Oppenheimer realised it was the positive charge of the nucleus that was deflecting the particle at the last minute so it's energy was not being transferred. He also realised that his German colleagues would have worked this out as well...

He penned a letter to Roosevelt urging him to accelerate the project. Nazi Germany was defeated before the bomb was ready.

As for nuclear stock piles now..they are vastly reduced compared to the Cold War days when the USSR had 40,000 devices in 1985
Since the deproliferation treaty, the US the former Soviet Union the UK and have all reduced their arsenal.
Can you guess which European country refused to sign and now has the largest warheads in Europe

 

[Grand Prix]

Sure we can nuke people! We have defense shields don't we?

 

[High-Test]

As for nuclear stock piles now..they are vastly reduced compared to the Cold War days when the USSR had 40,000 devices in 1985
Since the deproliferation treaty, the US the former Soviet Union the UK and have all reduced their arsenal.
Can you guess which European country refused to sign and now has the largest warheads in Europe

Uhh...... France? Or is it Germany?

 

[Zardoz]

The dropping of the two nukes was not only justified, it was necessary to spare countless more lives. You must put it into the context of the situation. First, consider the history of the Japanese military and its barbaric behavior:

http://www.ww2pacific.com/atrocity.html

How can you expect us to be in a fair and merciful mood after all this? Face the fact: The Japanese were the Nazis of Asia right up until they were defeated.

Now consider the "preview" we got of what an invasion of the Japanese home islands would be like that we got at Okinawa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

Note the suicides by the Japanese civilians. If there were that many on the small island of Okinawa, imagine how many would have done themselves in as the Allies plowed slowly across the home islands.

By comparison to the carnage an invasion would have brought about, the nuking of the two cities was merciful.

 

[blargonator]

I'm sure the people of Manila did not shed many tears over the bombings, those that where left anyway.

wow
anyways, ledhed's first post does not mention anything about WWII, or am i just missing something?
:breaaawwsounds like something electric turning on) switching topics!
i think it was a necessary evil that occured but i never want anything on the scale that occured in japan to happen again. the idea of nuclear weapons disgusts me but then again so do guns, i am not a hippy, but im not one to flaunt my ability to murder.

about everyone hating the U.S. i think its stupid but at the same time the people who make a big deal about it are like "man! look at how much stuff i can shoot while flying this helicopter to go kick osamas butt with nothing more than a koosh ball!" (kind of stretching it) obviously if the U.S. is so powerful in your eyes why would we have to depend on those weak nations such as france (i don't hate france).

but back to the original topic, i can't really decide, there is not clear cut answer because you don't know how many people will on both sides if you don't but at the same time you can't just murder 100,000 people instantly. a real melon scratcher if you ask me 💡

 

[a6m5]

How can you expect us to be in a fair and merciful mood after all this? Face the fact: The Japanese were the Nazis of Asia right up until they were defeated.

I do agree with what you're saying, but I'm not sure about the link you provided. Yes, most of the things on there are true, and I would even go along with your comparison of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. However, I would advise people to read it with a grain of salt. Not just Nanking, but many "massacres" in the history are often exaggerated. Nanking and other claims made by China are even more shifty, because China, along with Koreas go out of their way to trash Japan. Keep in mind, out of the major countries in the world, China is arguably the closest thing to Nazi, today. I'm not familiar with the European Theatre of WWII, but as I've noted in my earlier post, The U.S. military has killed(or murdered, going by the logic of the website) their share of civilians as well, by carpet bombing pretty much all major cities in Japan. Also, noting how Japanese Military murdered few here, and few there looks little knit picky. I'm pretty sure those things(not counting decapitation ) happened all the time, from all sides.

All I can say is that I'm glad that war ended, and our world today is nothing like the world of the 40's. Germany, Japan, Italy, USA, UK, Australia, France, Canada are all at peace now. Russia and China are still little dodgy, but are during OK. Hope we can keep up the peace.

 

[ledhed]

Actually what people seem to fail to realise is that Japan learned everything there is to know about imperialism from us. The Japanese industry was modeled to a large part on the US . The Navy was modeled after Great Britain and The Army after Germany . Officers from these services went to these countrys for training and as observers. Japan was a great student . We taught Japan that to be a great nation you had to have colonys and or exert influence through your military to create favorable conditions for trade . Japan followed the western example in China. Thing is the west was not willing to treat Japan as an equal ....we were willing to give lip service but when it came down to it Japan was treated as an inferior . Japan beat the crap out of imperial Russia...the western nations forced an unfavorable settlement at the peace treaty table. After WW1 Japan was given the former German possesions in the Pacific....they were deemed worthless pretty much no one else wanted them. as part of the washington naval treaty Japan was given the inferior ratio ...in its OWN waters ..the pacific. When Japan followed the lead of the west and got involved in China.....ummmm you cant do that ....so it should not seem as much a suprise that an ultra nationalist group that promised to stop insults to japanese national pride would find favor.
Lets get back to the US and the yellow peril...the removal of Japenese immigrants...and the refusal of letting these little monkeys..US diplomatic language..immigrate to the US..suprise suprise Japenese could read American news papers ! Every racist inch of them .
so now we seemingly hypocriticaly force an oil and steel embargo on Japan knowing that they only have imports as a source of raw materials.....So Pearl harbor is a Suprise attack ?
Maybe tacticaly it was a suprise but the US new damm well that Japan had no choice but to fight or die .
In WW1 and the war with Russia Japan treated prisoners with great respect. After being exposed to western racist values and hypocritical treatment is it such a suprise that those who would show mercy were considered to BE LIVING UP TO THE WESTERN VIEW OF JAPANESE as weak and inferior . Every effect has a cause . sometime you reap what you sow.
Explanation is not the same as justification. Japan commited many attrocitys they lost the war so their war criminal were hung .
If the US had lost the war would Truman have escaped the gallows ?

 

[Grand Prix]

That's an interesting view ledhed, and I totally agree with it. Depending on how far back in history you look, it can completely change your point of view. Usually the more farther back the better.

 

[a6m5]

Actually what people seem to fail to realise is that Japan learned everything there is to know about imperialism from us. The Japanese industry was modeled to a large part on the US . The Navy was modeled after Great Britain and The Army after Germany . Officers from these services went to these countrys for training and as observers. Japan was a great student . We taught Japan that to be a great nation you had to have colonys and or exert influence through your military to create favorable conditions for trade . Japan followed the western example in China. Thing is the west was not willing to treat Japan as an equal ....we were willing to give lip service but when it came down to it Japan was treated as an inferior . Japan beat the crap out of imperial Russia...the western nations forced an unfavorable settlement at the peace treaty table. After WW1 Japan was given the former German possesions in the Pacific....they were deemed worthless pretty much no one else wanted them. as part of the washington naval treaty Japan was given the inferior ratio ...in its OWN waters ..the pacific. When Japan followed the lead of the west and got involved in China.....ummmm you cant do that ....so it should not seem as much a suprise that an ultra nationalist group that promised to stop insults to japanese national pride would find favor.
Lets get back to the US and the yellow peril...the removal of Japenese immigrants...and the refusal of letting these little monkeys..US diplomatic language..immigrate to the US..suprise suprise Japenese could read American news papers ! Every racist inch of them .
so now we seemingly hypocriticaly force an oil and steel embargo on Japan knowing that they only have imports as a source of raw materials.....So Pearl harbor is a Suprise attack ?
Maybe tacticaly it was a suprise but the US new damm well that Japan had no choice but to fight or die .
In WW1 and the war with Russia Japan treated prisoners with great respect. After being exposed to western racist values and hypocritical treatment is it such a suprise that those who would show mercy were considered to BE LIVING UP TO THE WESTERN VIEW OF JAPANESE as weak and inferior . Every effect has a cause . sometime you reap what you sow.
Explanation is not the same as justification. Japan commited many attrocitys they lost the war so their war criminal were hung .
If the US had lost the war would Truman have escaped the gallows ?

Most people would call you Pro-Japanese for saying those things, but they are all true, at least to certain point. Most people, especially the Americans believes the Japanese attack of the Pearl Harbor dragged the U.S. into the World War II. I'm quite impressed by your knowledge of the "complete" history.

Only part I object is that, you make it sound as Japan was just copying Western nations. Japanese learning everything from Europe and America is true, and was the main reason Japanese military and technology were so superior compared to other Asian nations. But when it comes to the crimes they commited against its' neighboring countries, Japan has nobody to blame but themselves. However, despite some people's attempt to make it sound like Japanese are not apologetic about their doings in WWII, one look at Japan today would tell you that they have learned their lesson. Japan is probably the last country in the world to wage a war.

 

[87chevy]

But when it comes to the crimes they commited against its' neighboring countries, Japan has nobody to blame but themselves. However, despite some people's attempt to make it sound like Japanese are not apologetic about their doings in WWII, one look at Japan today would tell you that they have learned their lesson. Japan is probably the last country in the world to wage a war.

yeah, some people seem to forget the horrendous things they did to the chinese, koreans, and allied POW's.

but don't be so sure on them not waging a war. I heard a rumor that they want to change thier laws so as to beef up thier military for when Korea desides to lash out.

 

[Solid Fro]

Or when China makes the mistake of attacking Taiwan.

 

[87chevy]

Or when China makes the mistake of attacking Taiwan.

that too.

and nice sig by the way

 

[Solid Fro]

Thanks.

I think it sums up those on the left quite well. Those who enjoy their freedoms, yet have no will to defend them.

 

[a6m5]

yeah, some people seem to forget the horrendous things they did to the chinese, koreans, and allied POW's.

but don't be so sure on them not waging a war. I heard a rumor that they want to change thier laws so as to beef up thier military for when Korea desides to lash out.

About that, they have no choice. With the current law, Japanese can't strike or disrupt the North Korean nuclear warhead launch to Tokyo. Japan still won't possess the capability to actually invade other countries.

 

[87chevy]

About that, they have no choice. With the current law, Japanese can't strike or disrupt the North Korean nuclear warhead launch to Tokyo. Japan still won't possess the capability to actually invade other countries.

i never said they would invade anyone

but i bet they would be like cornered badgers/wolverines if they are poked and prodded enough.

i agree they won't ever start a war(unless they change their constitution that is), i was just reminding people that they DO have a military, and are probably more than well trained in how to use it.

 

[Zardoz]

...I'm not sure about the link you provided. Yes, most of the things on there are true, and I would even go along with your comparison of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. However, I would advise people to read it with a grain of salt. Not just Nanking, but many "massacres" in the history are often exaggerated. Nanking and other claims made by China are even more shifty, because China, along with Koreas go out of their way to trash Japan...

Perhaps this link will come closer to meeting your standards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/223038.stm

You seem intent on apologizing for the behavior of the Japanese military and whitewashing the truth about what they did. I assure you there are mountains of documenting materials available, and thousands of still-living eyewitnesses who would love to set you straight on the subject.

Perhaps you would like to discuss the Japanese chemical and biological weapons programs they were working on, and testing on Koreans and Chinese? Or is that another Chinese and Korean myth? (We could also talk about the ultra-long-range planes they were developing for the specific purpose of reaching western U.S. cities and dispersing the biological agents.)

 

[a6m5]

Perhaps this link will come closer to meeting your standards:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/223038.stm

You seem intent on apologizing for the behavior of the Japanese military and whitewashing the truth about what they did. I assure you there are mountains of documenting materials available, and thousands of still-living eyewitnesses who would love to set you straight on the subject.

Perhaps you would like to discuss the Japanese chemical and biological weapons programs they were working on, and testing on Koreans and Chinese? Or is that another Chinese and Korean myth? (We could also talk about the ultra-long-range planes they were developing for the specific purpose of reaching western U.S. cities and dispersing the biological agents.)

Seriously, did you read my post at all? How are they going to "set me straight" when I already agree with them. What I said was, that these types of accounts(not just WWII) are often exaggerated. I'm not saying they didn't happen, what I was saying was they probably padded the numbers a bit. You can tell me about all the eyewitnesses, and that still won't make everything on that page, "100%" true. "Chinese and Korean myth"? PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Here, let me make it clear: It is my opinion, that everything you accuse the Imperial Japan of doing, they did.

And what is this apologizing and whitewashing business?. What did I do? I wasn't alive in 1940's. If you had read my posts in other threads, you'll see that I don't bellive in wars. I'd rather be shot by my own government than to help them invade other countries. I guess I am sorry for what my country did back then, and what happened to the innocent victims, all over Asia. Do I have to apologize for it? I don't think so. If anyone thinks I'm wrong to take this stance, let me know. I'm very openminded. As for the whitewashing, what do you want me to do? England, Australia, The U.S., Italy, China, Russia, Germany, they are all guilty of some terrible crime. What do the citizens of those countries do? I'm open to suggestions, but if you are accusing me of whitewashing what my country did in World War II, in order to not whitewash, what do you want me to do? Am I supposed to be going, "Well, for starters, we should kill about a 2, 3 hundred thousand Japanese civilians, then rape around twenty thousand Japanese women." "Only then, Japanese are OK, but they are still losers!".

Just out of curiousity, where are you from? Also, most of the major powers in the world has commited some type of genocide or mass-killing(unless you're from Canada. OK, bad joke). How about your country?

 

[a6m5]

i never said they would invade anyone

but i bet they would be like cornered badgers/wolverines if they are poked and prodded enough.

i agree they won't ever start a war(unless they change their constitution that is), i was just reminding people that they DO have a military, and are probably more than well trained in how to use it.

Yes, that they do. JSDF(self-defense force) do purchase their weapon, focusing on "defense", however. Also, the size of Japanese military is a fraction of S. Korea, N. Korea, China and even smaller than that of Taiwan.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Yes, that they do. JSDF(self-defense force) do purchase their weapon, focusing on "defense", however. Also, the size of Japanese military is a fraction of S. Korea, N. Korea, China and even smaller than that of Taiwan.

What about the size of the US forces that are the Japanese militrary?

 

[a6m5]

What about the size of the US forces that are the Japanese militrary?

Not much, just the Seventh Fleet(badass!). They don't count though. They are there because it's handy for them, they are not there to protect Japan...... that's an added bonus. Yesssssssss!

 

[Solid Lifters]

Not much, just the Seventh Fleet(badass!). They don't count though. They are there because it's handy for them, they are not there to protect Japan...... that's an added bonus. Yesssssssss!

No, they're there for both.

 

[a6m5]

No, they're there for both.

Maybe during the Cold War. Today, U.S. has its' own agendas in East Asia(Taiwan being one of them 👍 ).

 

[Solid Fro]

Victor Davis Hanson has a spot-on article about the 60th anniversary of Hiroshima.

http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson080505.html

Read it all.

 

[a6m5]

Victor Davis Hanson has a spot-on article about the 60th anniversary of Hiroshima.

http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson080505.html

Read it all.

Really sad article. I just can't imagine so many people dying, not just in Asia, but all over the world. All I can say is war sucks. Most people don't want to fight, and I'll leave it at that.