Limited Collectors Edition

[Kake Bake]

This "deal with it" mindset is very unsatisfying. It's part of the problem and keeps encouraging developers to remove game content for later sale.

To be clear, I don't care what T10 are doing with the LE version, it's just as useless yet easy to ignore as the Chrome-Line or Stealth cars from GT5. It's the VIP nonsense they're trying to pull that irks me.

I could understand the 2x reward acceleration, worthless badges that nobody uses or knows are in the game, and exclusive multiplayer mess could themselves just be set aside for the morons dense enough to pay into the membership. But why are cars that have already been in previous titles now held ransom for this?

 

[Chippy569]

But why are cars that have already been in previous titles now held ransom for this?

Turn 10 makes a new game for a new console. The new game requires a new graphics engine because the old one does not work on the new console, and also because it allows the game designers to do new things the old engine was not capable of. The new engine requires all new visual content, because old content does not work in the new engine. So you're not having an FM4 car "held ransom" in FM5 - you're having an FM5 car "held ransom" in FM5.

The argument you're presenting is like this: I own a copy of Snow White on VHS tape. Why are greedy Disney film publishers charging me to "buy it again" on DVD? and then again on BR? Because it's not the same content and it works on different media. If I want to watch Snow White on my blu-ray player (and also enjoy the higher quality re-render plus the special features) then I have to buy a blu-ray copy. Or, if I don't care about the re-render nor special features, plus I still have a VHS player, then I can still watch it that way.

Also, consider this. We all know they're going to introduce some new-to-franchise cars in this title at launch, with open wheel and stuff. Would you rather have those new cars "held ransom" behind limited editions and only cars that were in previous titles be on-disc?

 

[Joey D]

This "deal with it" mindset is very unsatisfying. It's part of the problem and keeps encouraging developers to remove game content for later sale.

To be clear, I don't care what T10 are doing with the LE version, it's just as useless yet easy to ignore as the Chrome-Line or Stealth cars from GT5. It's the VIP nonsense they're trying to pull that irks me.

I'm not sure why you are bothered by it since you can buy the standard version of the game and still enjoy it. The extra stuff is just there for people who do choose to buy the LCE, and really a collector edition of any game should be at least a little bit special.

 

[IceMan PJN]

Dear god T10 is twisting the screws to it's customers. 3 separate DLC packs before the game has even been released? Do you guys really find value in this? Speak with your wallets and don't buy it, otherwise this **** is just going to get worse with every release.

Welcome to the modern era of gaming, where you can't make a proper major release for under $40 million. (Developers make roughly $15 per game sold, and that's only for new copies, not used from which they get $0.) One way or another, developers have to find ways of bringing in more money to stay in business.

There are some alternatives, including:
1) Lower standards until games are roughly on par with PS2 games so development costs are lower.
2) Pay more for all new games, like maybe $80 for any and all new games. The down side is sales would just drop off, which would be a new problem.

 

[Tornado]

The new engine requires all new visual content, because old content does not work in the new engine.

Irrelevant of everything else, that's not even remotely true.

 

[Kake Bake]

I'm not sure why you are bothered by it since you can buy the standard version of the game and still enjoy it. The extra stuff is just there for people who do choose to buy the LCE, and really a collector edition of any game should be at least a little bit special.

You may not be sure why it bothers me because you cut out the part in which I explain why it bothers me.

 

[Chippy569]

Irrelevant of everything else, that's not even remotely true.

Hey, i'm just going by what has been said publicly.

That's one of the challenges of developing for a new console. We had to rebuild every asset in the game. Unlike previous versions where we could leverage things and move them over, everything's all-new in this console.

So if you've got some evidence suggesting otherwise, I'd be really interested in seeing it.

 

[Joey D]

You may not be sure why it bothers me because you cut out the part in which I explain why it bothers me.

So you're bothered by cars you don't get that are part of a limited edition? It goes back to people who buy a collectors edition of a game want something additional for their money. I'm not really sure why you're bothered about people getting more of their money, everything in the capitalist world follows that business model.

It's also not like you can't enjoy the other hundreds of vehicles that will be in the game. But if you're really bothered by it, you don't have to buy the game.

 

[Tornado]

So if you've got some evidence suggesting otherwise, I'd be really interested in seeing it.

For starters? Every Standard car in GT5 (and GT6), which have been transported across 3 completely different game systems, and (for many of them) at least 4 completely different graphics engines. Every PC game with cars that has a thriving mod community is another one (to wit, Forza 4 is a fairly common source of car models to other PC games because there are guides to export the meshes. Even to games like Need for Speed IV, which came out almost 15 years ago).


Assets are independent of the engine except in special circumstances (such as if they are so detailed/large that they overwhelm the capabilities of the engine and have to be cut back). If they did in fact rebuild everything from scratch (and because of somewhat conflicting interviews over the subject, there has been debate in this very forum both over whether they were all "from scratch;" or even whether it was every car or just the ones really needed it to look good with the better looking ones merely touched up to higher standards), it was by choice to have a better looking game (which could easily be spun to be something they "had" to do in PR speak). Not because they simply wouldn't be able to do otherwise.

 

[Xavier2342]

I assume the Day One 3-pack will be packaged with the LCE. It'd be silly otherwise...

Still, slightly disappointing; while its good to see these cars confirmed to have made the jump to the new system, there's nothing new other than the P1. Oh, and the RS7's confirmation, I suppose.

This...

Unless there is more to this LCE, I think I'll probably end up purchasing the regular edition of this game. Unlike previous Forza games I don't see much of an incentive for purchasing the LCE.

 

[Kake Bake]

So you're bothered by cars you don't get that are part of a limited edition? It goes back to people who buy a collectors edition of a game want something additional for their money. I'm not really sure why you're bothered about people getting more of their money, everything in the capitalist world follows that business model.

It's also not like you can't enjoy the other hundreds of vehicles that will be in the game. But if you're really bothered by it, you don't have to buy the game.

It doesn't seem that people who purchase the FM5 VIP membership are getting more for their money, though. They're getting content that was already in previous titles, which has now been removed and sold back to them at a markup.

 

[Joey D]

It doesn't seem that people who purchase the FM5 VIP membership are getting more for their money, though. They're getting content that was already in previous titles, which has now been removed and sold back to them at a markup.

It's that up to the people who buy the VIP membership? You don't need the VIP membership to enjoy the game and if you find value in it, then buy it, if you don't, then you still have hundreds of other cars to play with. It's pretty simple and seems like a rather daft thing to be bothered about.

 

[Kake Bake]

It's that up to the people who buy the VIP membership? You don't need the VIP membership to enjoy the game and if you find value in it, then buy it, if you don't, then you still have hundreds of other cars to play with. It's pretty simple and seems like a rather daft thing to be bothered about.

T10 have removed (very popular) content from the game. This is what bothers me.

 

[Northstar]

T10 have removed (very popular) content from the game. This is what bothers me.

I'm more worried about the ones they will select to be unicorns. At least I can easily obtain the VIP cars.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I think Toko's just saying how frustrating it is of T10 to keep taking the best and coolest content out of the game to hide it behind a pay wall for useless LE and VIP versions of the game. Like what they do with unicorn cars (I know they're free in-game [after winning them], but you have to pay for Live Gold to even be eligible to receive them).

Yes, this. 👍 Thank you for understand me Kake Bake, this is excatly what I meant. I mean, despite the previous cars being reworked, I find it rather odd to just resell them again, you know? Just sell the cars that are new to the series as VIP DLC, that will actually motivate people to buy it quicker.

I also don't want unicorns holding on to cars that were from previous titles as well, just none.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

T10 have removed (very popular) content from the game. This is what bothers me.

Except they haven't, as it's likely still on the disc. It's five cars that will probably end up being sold as a cheap DLC pack a few months or a year later. If previous games are setting the precedent, anyways.

It's rewarding players who want to spend a bit extra. Much like GT5 did, or a variety of other non-racing games.

I'm more worried about the ones they will select to be unicorns. At least I can easily obtain the VIP cars.

Indeed. I got lucky and ended up with very nearly every one in FM4, but who knows how they'll be treated in FM5...

Yes, this. 👍 Thank you for understand me Kake Bake, this is excatly what I meant. I mean, despite the previous cars being reworked, I find it rather odd to just resell them again, you know? Just sell the cars that are new to the series as VIP DLC, that will actually motivate people to buy it quicker.

You mean reselling again... like the Jag XJR-9 in GT5?

I'll admit, I'll be disappointed if T10's monthly DLC consists of mostly (updated) carryovers from FM4 - and I won't buy it. Though not on the principle of it being recycled, but on the principle of there still being (small) holes in the car list that I'd like to see them plug with new-to-the-series additions.

If there's a backlash now from people complaining about the VIP DLC, I can't imagine having new cars in it would help that. If the shiny new McLaren P1 was limited to only the VIP pack, wouldn't you expect more complaints?

I also don't want unicorns holding on to cars that were from previous titles as well, just none.

Wait, so you'd rather unicorns, some of the hardest cars to get in the series, be ones that are new to FM5?!

...

What is interesting with all this is that the vast majority of the cars in the various packs are all DLC from FM4. It definitely has me wondering if they were all built to a much higher level of quality back then, saved for this occasion. It would've made more sense than doing them to the normal 360-appropriate quality, only to revisit them less than two years later.

What's also disappointing is the pack size - I don't think we'll be seeing 10-car monthly packs anymore

 

[Kake Bake]

You've got to be pretty masochistic to view paying extra for content that should be included in the price of the game as a reward.

 

[SlyNine]

It definitely has me wondering if they were all built to a much higher level of quality back then, saved for this occasion. It would've made more sense than doing them to the normal 360-appropriate quality, only to revisit them less than two years later.

I've wondered this too. If I were them, I'd make sure I did a master mold of any car or track, even if they couldn't reproduce it to that level of detail with current hardware.

 

[drivatar]

Except they haven't, as it's likely still on the disc. It's five cars that will probably end up being sold as a cheap DLC pack a few months or a year later. If previous games are setting the precedent, anyways.

On disc or not - they're locked.
T10 told us the value of the VIP membership which will probably be sold separately in the future: $20 - not cheap if you only care about the 5 VIP cars.

What is interesting with all this is that the vast majority of the cars in the various packs are all DLC from FM4. It definitely has me wondering if they were all built to a much higher level of quality back then, saved for this occasion. It would've made more sense than doing them to the normal 360-appropriate quality, only to revisit them less than two years later.

Good point and very likely true.

What's also disappointing is the pack size - I don't think we'll be seeing 10-car monthly packs anymore

There's a trend:

FM2: 9 cars / 400 MSP
FM3: 9 cars / 400 MSP
FM4: 9 cars / 560 MSP
FH: 5 cars / 400 MSP

However the size of special car packs like VIP doesn't tell us much about the size of normal car packs.
VIP was 5 cars in FM4, too.

 

[ch3ng]

I really like the box art and the content of the limited edition.

 

[Chippy569]

You've got to be pretty masochistic to view paying extra for content that should be included in the price of the game as a reward.

what's your take on codemasters making all the classics a version-specific feature? If you want that content, you have to pay extra, and my guess is it will be a lot extra.

 

[TokoTurismo]

You mean reselling again... like the Jag XJR-9 in GT5?

I wouldn't disagree with that, sucks that it couldn't been saved for GT6 though, but that was the only one. 0.0

"So far"

I'll admit, I'll be disappointed if T10's monthly DLC consists of mostly (updated) carryovers from FM4 - and I won't buy it. Though not on the principle of it being recycled, but on the principle of there still being (small) holes in the car list that I'd like to see them plug with new-to-the-series additions.

It will be disappointing, yes, but I understand what you're saying. Maybe with added new aero parts as well? They'll probably just do how it worked in FH's DLC I guess. *Shrugs*

If there's a backlash now from people complaining about the VIP DLC, I can't imagine having new cars in it would help that. If the shiny new McLaren P1 was limited to only the VIP pack, wouldn't you expect more complaints?

I thought the backlash was just the VIP cars (the ones that were in previous Forzas) were the issue. I actually don't mind the new cars with added liveries and tunes sold specially, because there on the disk. And yes I will expect more complaints if the P1 was VIP only. lol.

 

[Kake Bake]

what's your take on codemasters making all the classics a version-specific feature? If you want that content, you have to pay extra, and my guess is it will be a lot extra.

To me, the Classic Edition is comparable to the Rally Expansion for Horizon. I'm sure, just like the Rally Expansion, that some will consider it too little content for the price. But the rub is that this is all completely new content, that (based on who you ask) is much more desirable than the boring and gross-looking 2013 snooze-fest the base game will probably turn out to be.

That doesn't seem too bad, really. Because that's really what DLC should be. It should ADD new content to a game rather than remove what was previously there to sell it back to you.

 

[TokoTurismo]

That doesn't seem too bad, really. Because that's really what DLC should be. It should ADD new content to a game rather than remove what was previously there to sell it back to you.

Indeed. I mean it's not necessarily a bad thing, not at all. It's just it odd that (even when the cars are being remade), it's odd to put them in the VIP pack, especially the Cobra (twice as DLC now). :\

 

[Kake Bake]

Indeed. I mean it's not necessarily a bad thing, not at all. It's just it odd that (even when the cars are being remade), it's odd to put them in the VIP pack, especially the Cobra (twice as DLC now). :\

Preach.

 

[Wolfe]

I have to agree, this list of exclusive VIP cars is rather greedy. Those models are common favorites, too popular to tuck away into an "exclusive" DLC deal, IMO. Of course, their popularity is the whole point. Together with the irritating Unicorn bullcrap, I'm tired of dancing around launch-day DLC deals and jumping through paid-subscription (and social media) hoops to have a chance to drive some of my favorite cars, not only in Forza but also in other modern racing games. It's lame. 👎

Admittedly, I didn't have any reservations about buying into the LCEs of FM4 and Horizon; I was happy to plunk down extra to support those two great games, regardless of how BS the deals were. But now that FM5 is in the position of attempting to prove itself worth a big investment, I see nothing rosy in this. You would think a launch title tasked with selling consoles would be a bit more generous.

I can understand not being perturbed if you're already committed to getting an XBone, and you want to support FM5 the way I did FM4 and Horizon. But without that motivation, the VIP pack really resembles ransom more than it does a reward.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Preach.

I'll like to, but not very good at it sadly. lol.

 

[Chippy569]

no one has said anything about unicorns yet, not even if there are any (perhaps someone should raise that question at gamescom?) so I don't know why you guys are getting bent out of shape about it.

 

[Kake Bake]

I'll like to, but not very good at it sadly. lol.

Ha, well at least you can appreciate how absurd and indefensible the VIP membership is.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Ha, well at least you can appreciate how absurd and indefensible the VIP membership is.

Oh yeah, haha.

no one has said anything about unicorns yet, not even if there are any (perhaps someone should raise that question at gamescom?) so I don't know why you guys are getting bent out of shape about it.

Off topic: Lets be certain there "might" be unicorns in FM5. Lets just leave it at.