List of duplicated Mazda MX-5

[Famine]

33 versions of the same car

Nope.

At worst, it's 15 versions of the same car, if you take "same" to mean "same make, model and engine". If you take actual stats into consideration, it's 8 at worst.

The list in the first post includes NA Mk1 models with 1.6 and 1.8 engines, NB Mk2 models with 1.6 and 1.8 engines and NB.5 Mk2.5 models with 1.6 and 1.8 engines. The single version with the most cars represented is the NA Mk1 1.8, with 15 cars.

8 of those 15 have the same 130hp, 980kg rating - the other 7 are at 990kg (3) or 1000kg (4), depending on trim and region. There's also 5 NA Mk1 1.6s with the same stats at 117hp and 940kg, with the sixth (Eunos Roadster J-Limited '91) an extra 10kg heavier.

 

[mister dog]

^ Model and engine differences aside in real life, i doubt you will notice the differences racing all 33 of them in GT6.

 

[Famine]

^ Model and engine differences aside in real life, i doubt you will notice the differences racing all 33 of them in GT6.

Aside from the 8 with identical stats, you ought to (assuming they were all painted the same colour, since the eight encompass four different special edition paints). There's two generations in the list that look very different (there's actually three, but you need to look closely to tell the NB from the NB.5) and they differ by up to 43hp (27%) and 140kg (13%) in weight...

Saying there's 33 version of the same car from looking at that list is like looking at the list of Corvettes and saying there's 16 duplicates. Yeah, sure, if you ignore the seven generations...

 

[mister dog]

Aside from the 8 with identical stats, you ought to (assuming they were all painted the same colour, since the eight encompass four different special edition paints). There's two generations in the list that look very different (there's actually three, but you need to look closely to tell the NB from the NB.5) and they differ by up to 43hp (27%) and 140kg (13%) in weight...

Saying there's 33 version of the same car from looking at that list is like looking at the list of Corvettes and saying there's 16 duplicates. Yeah, sure, if you ignore the seven generations...

How would 33 corvettes make you feel then?

Point being it's an exaggerated amount of the same car for a video game, and if i'm not mistaken the amount of Skylines even surpasses it.

 

[332i]

There should be 3 main Miata "folders" representing the NA, NB, and NC generations. Don't people want a polished, professional-looking dealership menu?! It looks absolutely childish right now with all these duplicates I swear.

It would take maybe a day to clean up the dealership mess. That's not asking for much.

Idk, I guess I just want to drive. R1/R2 and the paddles work fine for me. Dunno, mang.

The game doesn't have enough! No. Wait. The game has too much! I mean, not enough! I mean...I don't know...

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I see NA 1.6 and 1.8, NB 1.6 and 1.8 (with VVT added to the 1.8 later on), and NC 2.0

That's 3 generations, and 2 of them have 2 choices of engine size, for a total of 5 shall we say, necessary, Miatae.

Six, if you include the NB with VVT.

 

[Famine]

How would 33 corvettes make you feel then?

Absolutely fine.

Point being it's an exaggerated amount of the same car for a video game, and if i'm not mistaken the amount of Skylines even surpasses it.

The amount isn't the problem. The presentation is - for example the presentation is making you think there's 32 copied cars and 1 original, when there's genuinely eleven different cars there (that I'd present as five).

You wouldn't bat an eyelid at 35 MX-5s if you were told there were five. You wouldn't even notice 41 Skylines (that's just the roadgoing Nissan ones - not the racers or tuners) if you were told there were thirteen. But they're presented as the biggest number and it makes people scream "duplicate to boost the numbers!". You don't solve it by removing cars - that limits choice - you solve it by presenting it so that people get more than they think.

There's still over 900 cars in GT6 if grouped by make, model, generation, engine. That's a BIG number.

 

[mister dog]

There's still over 900 cars in GT6 if grouped by make, model, generation, engine. That's a BIG number.

Huge number actually, to be honest a total car count of between 200-500 is more than enough for me. Don't remember the total car count of GT5 anymore but the majority of cars i owned were just collecting dust in my virtual garage.

Tastes differ of course and if one get's aroused by the big numbers I'm sure he'll prefer GT6, it would just be nicer if those "different spec'd- different model year" duplicates would be axed and replaced by new cars.

 

[Famine]

it would just be nicer if those "different spec'd- different model year" duplicates would be axed and replaced by new cars.

That can't happen. Well, the axing can, but the replacing can't - if a car can be in a GT game it already is. All that axing would achieve is removing choice.

Presenting the car list as 900-odd with those 300ish extra trim variants would solve it and no-one has to lose out.

 

[Bo]

I've been a long campaigner for the idea of having one base vehicle, ie one car per chassis generation, and then having engine/trim levels as options, similar to picking colours. It would make everything a lot cleaner to navigate.

 

[mister dog]

Presenting the car list as 900-odd with those 300ish extra trim variants would solve it and no-one has to lose out.

That would be the better option to present them indeed, but then PD couldn't use it to brag about the 1000+ car count unless they start adding other cars (which is why i suspect they present it in the way they do).

 

[Famine]

That would be the better option to present them indeed, but then PD couldn't use it to brag about the 1000+ car count unless they start adding other cars (which is why i suspect they present it in the way they do).

I suspect they present it the way they do because that's how many entries there are in their car list table. That's what the car list says, so that's what they say because it's truthful. Of course their PR at Sony will happily use that number for advertising purposes.

If they adopted the more Star Fleet Engineer approach I'm proposing, they'd have a few more fans, I suspect. They don't need to use the big number because even the small one is more than any other game ever and all the reviews will say "Sony tells us there's only 900 cars in the game, but this is only the base count of models. We've discovered that you can select different trims and variants for many models - so for example you can drive your own real MX-5 rather than a generic representative model - and this bumps the real number up to over 1,200".

 

[NT_03]

I think that duplicates should stay. Because I like the duplicates and I don't think that is necessary to remove the duplicates of MX-5.

It's because of the striped "tattoo" Miatas.
However, the Standard Eunos-Roadster(s) can go..

 

[MidFieldMaven]

It's because of the striped "tattoo" Miatas.
However, the Eunos-Roadster(s) can go..

Not the '89. That is the original and IMO the most significant of all.

 

[Harsk100]

It's because of the striped "tattoo" Miatas.
However, the Standard Eunos-Roadster(s) can go..

Or then they will have to be converted to Premium, right? (Like the MX-5'89 and J-Limited'91)

 

[Blkout]

I went through the dealership and counted up how many cars we really don't need. I grouped them together, and we only need to keep 1 car from each group.

In short, there are only 11 Miatas we need (Plus the 1 NC model not listed)

And there are 22 Miatas that should disappear.

Eunos Roadster J-Limited (NA) '91
MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) '91
MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) '91

Eunos Roadster J-Limited II (NA) '93
MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) '93
MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) '93

MX-5 (NA) '89
MX-5 Miata (NA) '89
Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89

Roadster 1600 NR-A (NB) '04
MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04
MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) '04

Eunos Roadster SR-Limited (NA) '97
MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) '97
MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) '97

Eunos Roadster S-Special Type I (NA) '95
MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95
MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) '95

Eunos Roadster VR-Limited (NA) '95
MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) '95
MX-5 VR Limited (NA, J) '95

Eunos Roadster V-Special Type II (NA) '93
MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93
MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) '93

Roadster 1.8 RS (NB) '98
MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98
MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) '98

Roadster 1800 RS (NB) '00
MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '00
MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '00

Roadster 1800 RS (NB) '04
MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) '04
MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) '04

I agree with you, its utterly stupid how many duplicates are in this game and not just the Miata suffers from this. I've come to the conclusion regardless of what anyone says, its simply a way for PD to bolster their car count. Nothing more than a pure marketing trick. Sure sounds better to have a 1000 cars to choose from than 100-200 from their competition. My opinion is that Forza 4 did it right. Loads of cars without all the excessive duplicates.

I think that duplicates should stay. Because I like the duplicates and I don't think that is necessary to remove the duplicates of MX-5.

Because I'm sure you drive all 33 variants and know the intricate details of their differences when driving them...c'mon man. Its thinking like this that has allowed PD to stay so far beind the competition. PD needs to understand that 33 variants of the same car essentially isn't good for anyone and that's resources they could be using to develop other car models that we don't have or better yet, convert the stupid standard models to premiums.

 

[Crzyrazr]

Haven't spent much time looking at how many duplicates but I am kinda glad there are duplicates. The reason simple: more setups without having to lose the ones that work well for a specific track.
Example I love the 3000gts/Stealths/GTOs. With having duplicates I could really tune the car for each track or race without losing what worked great before. With all those duplicates I don't worry about losing a good setup for me. I could switch cars and load a tune and roll on.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[Tornado]

Why couldn't you just buy another GTO? Hell, if GT6 had a halfway competent tune save system (like... GT3 had), it could be replicated with a single car.

 

[Crzyrazr]

Why couldn't you just buy another GTO? Hell, if GT6 had a halfway competent tune save system (like... GT3 had), it could be replicated with a single car.

That is what I meant was buying the duplicates and using each one for specific tracks. Each car has three setups so each would be setup for specific tracks. That is what I intend to do with them anyways.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Haven't spent much time looking at how many duplicates but I am kinda glad there are duplicates. The reason simple: more setups without having to lose the ones that work well for a specific track.
Example I love the 3000gts/Stealths/GTOs. With having duplicates I could really tune the car for each track or race without losing what worked great before. With all those duplicates I don't worry about losing a good setup for me. I could switch cars and load a tune and roll on.

Just my two cents worth.

Or, without all the duplicates in the game, you could just buy the same car many times, paint it different colours and achieve the same goal, without all the duplicates. Better yet, introduce the radical idea of adding a subtitle or brief description to each car and we could name them, "Nurburgring, Short Track, Long Track", etc.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Blows my mind there are those who like duplicates and will defend them... *Sigh*

 

[Famine]

PD needs to understand that 33 variants of the same car essentially isn't good for anyone

Luckily, there aren't 33 variants of the same car. It's 15, 8 or 3, depending on what you class as "same" (shape, stats, specification).

And again, it's not their presence that's the problem (though in part it is, because 20 of them don't actually exist) - it's the fact they're presented as 33 when they should be presented as 5 and the user allowed which version of those 5 they want, from submenus.

and that's resources they could be using to develop other car models that we don't have or better yet, convert the stupid standard models to premiums.

And even if there were 33 variants of the same car, no it isn't.

 

[Blkout]

Luckily, there aren't 33 variants of the same car. It's 15, 8 or 3, depending on what you class as "same" (shape, stats, specification).

And again, it's not their presence that's the problem (though in part it is, because 20 of them don't actually exist) - it's the fact they're presented as 33 when they should be presented as 5 and the user allowed which version of those 5 they want, from submenus.And even if there were 33 variants of the same car, no it isn't.

Defend, defend, defend. GT stays the same forever!

 

[Famine]

Defend, defend, defend. GT stays the same forever!

You don't get to effect change by repeating others' mistakes. You need to make your point accurate and trotting out "33 variants of the same car" is not accurate - nor is claiming that if they weren't there, PD could have put something else in.

Since you seem to have glossed over how I'd change it in favour of thinking I'd keep it the same (again, inaccurate), have another bash at reading it. I've made the point a few times in the thread. Here's a small selection - including the post you just quoted:

And again, it's not their presence that's the problem (though in part it is, because 20 of them don't actually exist) - it's the fact they're presented as 33 when they should be presented as 5 and the user allowed which version of those 5 they want, from submenus.

Personally, I'd keep all of the cars, but I'd list them in a different way. I'd class [Make] [Model] [Engine] as "a car" and then allow players to choose their trim after that:

So the car list would say:
1. Mazda, MX-5/Roadster/Miata NA, 1.6
2. Mazda, MX-5/Roadster/Miata NA, 1.8
3. Mazda, MX-5/Roadster/Miata NB, 1.6
4. Mazda, MX-5/Roadster/Miata NB, 1.8
5. Mazda, MX-5/Miata NC Roadster, 1.8
6. Mazda, MX-5/Miata NC Roadster, 2.0
7. Mazda, MX-5/Miata NC Coupe, 1.8
8. Mazda, MX-5/Miata NC Coupe, 2.0

And so on, and the players could choose from further submenus:
2. Mazda, MX-5/Roadster/Miata NA 1.8:
Miata (LHD)
'93, Limited Edition '93, M-Edition '94, M-Edition '95, M-Edition '96, M-Edition '97, STO '97
Eunos Roadster (RHD)
'93, S-Limited '93, J-Limited '94, G-Limited '95, R-Limited '95, RS-Limited '95, V-Special '96, VR-Limited I '96, VR-Limited II '96, SR-Limited '97, VR-Special '98
MX-5 (LHD)
'93, SE '93, Gleneagles '95, California '95, Monaco '96, Merlot '96, Dakar '97, Monza '97, Harvard '97, Classic '97, Berkeley '98
MX-5 (RHD)
'93, SE '93, Gleneagles '95, California '95, Monaco '96, Merlot '96, Dakar '97, Monza '97, Harvard '97, Classic '97, Berkeley '98

So the car list would say the MX-5/Miata/Roadster NA 1.8 was one car, but really players got forty cars to choose from...

You could add in generational facelifts (NB.5, NC.5, NC.75) to the eight listed cars and they could even include racing cars. So they'd promise eight cars, but really players would get up to a hundred. They'd have to be real and different though - there's no such thing as an MX-5 or Miata VR-Limited, so while duplicating the car for regional name differences is at least reasonable, giving us nonexistent trims calls the usefulness into question.

Do it the other way round and players get annoyed that there's a hundred listed cars but really only eight...

Removing cars isn't the way to go - it removes choice and limits fun. Listing them as individual cars isn't either - people can't see past the fact there's 34 cars with the same name. Underplaying them, by listing make/model/engine as "a car", is the way forward.

As far as I'm concerned, their presence is absolutely fine. It's the fact that they're presented as 35 different cars when most folk can't really see past the name and think it's only really 1, duplicated many times over. And then, following that, the fact that of the 35, there's only actually 13 different ones - the other 22 are different in name only - and really people can only see a clear difference between four of them (NA, NB, NC, touring car).

Present them as four - or eight to take account of engines and bodies as I listed above (or six - lump the NC Coupe in with the NC Roadster) - but give us thirteen and it's fine. Hell, even just rename the twenty-two to US and EU special edition trims (actually, leave the '89 as it is - that's no problem) with no other difference and give us all 35 presented as four and no-one would have a problem.

Now tell me how, given that I say the current way of doing it isn't right, needs changing and have suggested how to change it without limiting anyone's choice, I'm defending the current way of doing it and want GT to stay the same.

Take your time.

 

[Blkout]

You don't get to effect change by repeating others' mistakes. You need to make your point accurate and trotting out "33 variants of the same car" is not accurate - nor is claiming that if they weren't there, PD could have put something else in.

Since you seem to have glossed over how I'd change it in favour of thinking I'd keep it the same (again, inaccurate), have another bash at reading it. I've made the point a few times in the thread. Here's a small selection - including the post you just quoted:Now tell me how, given that I say the current way of doing it isn't right, needs changing and have suggested how to change it without limiting anyone's choice, I'm defending the current way of doing it and want GT to stay the same.

Take your time.

I'm fine with the way you re-categorized the Miata's but its still excessive in my opinion. You obviously think its just fine, others don't. It is what is. By accepting this line of thinking from PD, then we might as well ask them to give us every possible variant of every car made. That would push the car count up to 50K+ and we would have to the choice of driving cars that changed from one year to the next by 5hp and maybe added a second cup holder from one year to the next but its all about having more choice right? Even if the differences between model years is so minute that it makes really no difference in the driving experience.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I think the 3 VR-Limited Miatas are the same as 3 other Miatas only with a tan top rather than black.

Just have one and give us the option to change the top color...

 

[Famine]

I'm fine with the way you re-categorized the Miata's but its still excessive in my opinion.

Why?

Why is it excessive to have a RHD MX-5 for the UK, a LHD Miata for the USA, a RHD Eunos Roadster/Mazda Roadster for Japan and a LHD MX-5 for Europe if they are all different cars? Why is it excessive to have different cars at all?

Is it just Mazda badges you don't like? There's sixteen Chevrolet Corvettes in GT6, excluding racing models. Are we going to whine about how excessive that is? Of course not - there's 7 generations in there. But then there's four generations (NA, NB, NB.5, NC) and five different engines in the MX-5 list and left and right hookers.


The problem is not the quantity of cars. It is the presentation of cars as separate models.

You obviously think its just fine, others don't. It is what is. By accepting this line of thinking from PD

There's something you're not reading here and I can't for the life of me think what it is.

My way has never been done in GT. So it isn't what it is and no-one can think it's fine or otherwise. PD's way is how it's done and I don't think it's fine and I'm not "accepting this line of thinking".

I don't know what you're not getting here. I'm proposing changing how it's done to a new way. This isn't accepting how it's done now. In fact it's exactly not accepting how it's done now.

then we might as well ask them to give us every possible variant of every car made. That would push the car count up to 50K+ and we would have to the choice of driving cars that changed from one year to the next by 5hp and maybe added a second cup holder from one year to the next but its all about having more choice right? Even if the differences between model years is so minute that it makes really no difference in the driving experience.

That's fine by me. But it would have to be presented correctly.

And that's my point. There's been forty three special editions of MX-5 in the last 25 years. Giving us all of them is great, but you can't possibly present them as 43 different cars on the car list and expect people to be happy about it.

Instead, present them as SIX different cars:
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Eunos Roadster (NA) 1.6 1989-1998
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Eunos Roadster (NA) 1.8 1991-1998
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NB) 1.6 1998-2005
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NB) 1.8 1998-2005
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NC) 1.8 2005-2014
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NC) 2.0 2005-2014

And allow users to choose from submenus what version it is that they want. And that includes NB.5, NC.5, NC.75, NC Coupe and racing models. Presented as six, not forty-three.

I think the 3 VR-Limited Miatas are the same as 3 other Miatas only with a tan top rather than black.

Nope. The three VR-Limiteds - two of which don't even exist (only the Eunos Roadster does) - aren't even the same as each other...

One of them is the same as two other Eunos Roadsters (S-Special, J-Limited) with different body colours and the other two are the same as six other MX-5s/Miatas (both S-Specials, both J-Limiteds) with different body colours. Of course if they were Premium you'd see that they all have different interiors too.

Just have one and give us the option to change the top color...

Yep.

Or at least give us "Mazda MX-5/Miata/Eunos Roadster (NA) 1.8" and allow us to pick which model (and then which side of the car we drive if we picked MX-5) and actual trim variant after that.

 

[Blkout]

Why?

Why is it excessive to have a RHD MX-5 for the UK, a LHD Miata for the USA, a RHD Eunos Roadster/Mazda Roadster for Japan and a LHD MX-5 for Europe if they are all different cars? Why is it excessive to have different cars at all?

Is it just Mazda badges you don't like? There's sixteen Chevrolet Corvettes in GT6, excluding racing models. Are we going to whine about how excessive that is? Of course not - there's 7 generations in there. But then there's four generations (NA, NB, NB.5, NC) and five different engines in the MX-5 list and left and right hookers.

The problem is not the quantity of cars. It is the presentation of cars as separate models.There's something you're not reading here and I can't for the life of me think what it is.

My way has never been done in GT. So it isn't what it is and no-one can think it's fine or otherwise. PD's way is how it's done and I don't think it's fine and I'm not "accepting this line of thinking".

I don't know what you're not getting here. I'm proposing changing how it's done to a new way. This isn't accepting how it's done now. In fact it's exactly not accepting how it's done now.That's fine by me. But it would have to be presented correctly.

And that's my point. There's been forty three special editions of MX-5 in the last 25 years. Giving us all of them is great, but you can't possibly present them as 43 different cars on the car list and expect people to be happy about it.

Instead, present them as SIX different cars:
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Eunos Roadster (NA) 1.6 1989-1998
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Eunos Roadster (NA) 1.8 1991-1998
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NB) 1.6 1998-2005
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NB) 1.8 1998-2005
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NC) 1.8 2005-2014
Mazda MX-5/Miata/Roadster (NC) 2.0 2005-2014

And allow users to choose from submenus what version it is that they want. And that includes NB.5, NC.5, NC.75, NC Coupe and racing models. Presented as six, not forty-three.

I fully understand that you would rather them be categorized and sorted better than they are currently, I get that and I approve. When I say that you're accepting PD's line of thinking, I'm implying that we don't need that many versions of practically the same car. And no, I don't think we actually need a right hand drive and left hand drive of the basically the same car. In that regard, PD could simply offer one car, and upon selection of that car offer the option to choose which side you want to drive, how hard could that possibly be? As for your Corvette analogy, your argument is that there's 16 different models but that's a less than the Miata and yet the Corvette dates back to 1953 so there's going to be more generations and models to choose from. The only real issue I have with the Corvette line-up is that they have two models of the C5 Z06, one 2000 model and one 2004 model, its the EXACT same car except that there was a 20hp increase from 2001 to 2002 model years and one is a standard and one is premium. That really doesn't justify needing an additional car model for a 20hp increase and why the Hell is one a standard and one a premium when the interior and exterior was completely unchanged between those years? This is the same issue I have with the Miata. Simply stupid.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In that regard, PD could simply offer one car, and upon selection of that car offer the option to choose which side you want to drive, how hard could that possibly be?

Which is pretty much exactly what he said. Separate the distinct models and then have sub-categories offering LH/RH, different trim etc.

 

[Blkout]

Which is pretty much exactly what he said. Separate the distinct models and then have sub-categories offering LH/RH, different trim etc.

And for about the 3rd time now in this thread, I agreed with better categorization when it comes to LH/RH drive models, but I still have a problem with too many similar models that only have a few hp increase or an extra cupholder added. They drive the same in game, its not adding anything to have them there other than to jack up the car count.