Logitech in financial trouble. "Discontinue... console peripherals"

[Cote Dazur]

I don't see how they can discontinue it if its making money.

You have a good point, if it is reliable , like every one seems to agree it is, it means there is no additional over cost fixing issues and sales are good. then it is most likely profitable.
I don't see any reason for Logitec to discontinue such a product.

 

[Tornado]

Something can be profitable, but not be profitable enough to justify the huge expenses associated with producing it. As amar pointed out here, Logitech wheel profits already had to be ultra-lean considering how much they would cost to manufacture and ship around the world, how widely the are available in terms of retail presence, and how small the market is compared to pretty much every other outlet that Logitech makes products for. If you're shipping worldwide things with a lean profit margin despite a (relatively) high retail cost, that's a lot of money to have tied up in a bunch of niche items until they sell. These are big, heavy boxes that take up a lot of shelf space that Logitech also has to justify to retailers is worth it over stocking something "safer" like keyboards or mice or even regular gaming controllers.

If Logitech is refocusing their entire brand strategy, that in no way means that they are only cutting the money losing things. If they are losing money on operations, that means they are going to start cutting out things that are expensive to do and/or are a niche item just as quickly as they will cut things that are outright losing money unless those expensive things are very profitable, which there is little chance that gaming wheels are.

 

[napalmhardcore]

Roughly once a month for about two years now I've entered, Logitech "new wheel" in to Google to see if there is any news of a successor to the G27. That's exactly how I came to be on this thread today.

I've read this thread from start to finish. Depressingly I don't think Logitech will continue to make wheels, and the post a few pages back (I forgot who made it now) about Intel stopping desktop processors and pc's getting watered down is even more upsetting.

I believe a small part of the problem is the fact that the G27 was not a worthwhile upgrade for those of us who already owned a G25. I remember following the pre-release hype before it came out and read all the reviews once it did.

First thing that put me off is they got rid of the sequential shifting option. Two things about that is 1) I drive a variety of different car types and I like to have the option between paddle, sequential and gated shifting. 2) I am a cross platform gamer, the G25 was also PS2 & PS3 compatible, so for my older games (and PS3 games that don't support the six speed shifter) I was forced to use the paddle shifters.

Secondly because of the helical gears used, the force feedback deadzone around centre was allegedly worse. Also (I may be alone on this) I think the G25 is more aesthetically pleasing than the G27. A lot of the improvements were reportedly fairly small, so I held off buying one and waited to see what Logitech's answer to the offerings from Fanatec and Thrustmaster would be. But one never arrived and now it seems may never arrive.

I have seen quite a few people in the same boat as me, wanting to buy a new wheel but waiting for a successor to the G27 before making their move. I believe Logitech lost sales from people who wanted an upgrade so either, still haven't upgraded (I still have a DFP and my G25) or bought from another company.

At the moment the company that is exciting me the most is Fanatec. I like the fact that you can purchase the parts you want to make the setup you want. I also like their idea (although I thought of it first) that you can swap the rims. I however hate the gear shifter mounting on to rails idea (TABLE CLAMP!!!) and the fact that you need about 5 yards clearance for a desk mount (some of us have keyboard trays. In fact I can mount my Logitech wheels without disrupting my pc gaming setup at all).

Thrustmaster have got on my nerves a bit, They had in their description the fact that the rim could be removed for replacement rims. Then no information for ages and ages and then.... An F1 wheel, damn! (unless F1 is your thing it is very expensive and and of little use for anything else) I was personally hoping they would go with either a nice leather wheel or something like a Sparco or Momo. The fixed paddle solution was also very off-putting for me, as I said I like to drive different car types so for open wheelers and F1 (which I only occasionally drive) your only option is the F1 wheel.

I hope Logitech continue making wheels but my gut tells me otherwise.

 

[MSTER232]

First of all, welcome to this thread napal! You will probably like it here, and I'm sad that the Logitech wheels are going to go too .

The Thrustmaster T500 isn't really my thing because it's really expensive and extra addons that you can buy for it such as the T8 shifter or the F1 wheel then it is also very expensive. Fanatec wheels don't have official support for GT5 but I hope that in GT6 they will become officially supported so that we have more options. But even so, some people can't afford Fanatecs so this might not be an option depending on your budget. Either way Logitech stopping the production of their wheels will have a bigger impact of the sim racing community then they might have imagined at the time.

 

[napalmhardcore]

It will be very sad if Logitech do stop producing wheels. As said by others in this thread discontinuing the DFGT may affect the amount of people who become interested in sim racing.

At the moment if someone were to ask me what is a good wheel to begin with, I think the DFGT is a no brainer. I've not used one myself but have used its closest relatives (I've also been tempted to buy one myself as a backup so I can continue to play my PS2 games in the future should my other wheels break), they are fantastic value for money. I believe someone who has one as their first wheel will be given a very positive experience, therefore as their interest grows they will feel more confident when they decide they want to upgrade.

Having looked at reviews for other wheels in a similar price range it seems they are much less reliable and lack the feature set the DFGT offers. It has 900 degrees rotation, good force feedback, personally my favourite clamping system (discreet and effective), paddle and sequential shifters and a perfectly acceptable set of pedals. It's pretty tough to beat and while someone may fill that area of the market I cannot see anyone doing it as successfully as Logitech have. The more I think about it the more tragic it seems (first world meaning of tragic lol).

 

[MSTER232]

At the moment if someone were to ask me what is a good wheel to begin with, I think the DFGT is a no brainer. I've not used one myself but have used its closest relatives (I've also been tempted to buy one myself as a backup so I can continue to play my PS2 games in the future should my other wheels break), they are fantastic value for money. I believe someone who has one as their first wheel will be given a very positive experience, therefore as their interest grows they will feel more confident when they decide they want to upgrade.

This. Anyone who is reading this and is considering to get into sim racing with a wheel and has a tight budget, the DFGT will not let you down. I have one and it is great value for money. I also got it really cheap and at least the way I see it, Logitech has to keep producing this wheel otherwise a lot less people are going to become interested in sim racing due to the cost. And the really sad thing is that if Logitech are going to discontinue console peripherals then the DFGT is almost definitely going to go because it was designed for a PS3 game and there is no argument to make it class as a peripheral based for the PS3.

 

[napalmhardcore]

Just thinking outside the box here, does anyone here own a cat or even better a kitten or puppy?

 

[MSTER232]

What would you do with that? Would you give them puppy eyes and make a meme out of it?

 

[napalmhardcore]

What would you do with that? Would you give them puppy eyes and make a meme out of it?

I was thinking someone could hold their puppy or kitten to ransom. First smell some onions to make you cry then hold the puppy/kitten at gun or knife point and say "if Logitech discontinue making wheels the puppy/kitten gets it". We then post it on Youtube. No one would be so cold hearted as to endanger a puppy/kitten (but we know in reality they were never in any real danger

 

[smokey777]

Reliability wise I'm guessing it will get better.

ya & I hope it starts with my wheel lol

 

[chromatic9]

I'm sure someone else will step in to fill the void.

Really needs some innovation, better structure at varying price level from a smaller company with a more savvy approach. I think all exisiting wheel manufactures miss the mark or have issues like Fanatec.

Also hope the next consoles sort out the HID/XID mess. It's a niche thing so we don't need that rubbish exclusive nonsense that MS bring dividing the market.

PS2 sold 140mill, PS3 and 360 sold 70 mill each so far and Logitech miss out on half. it's not good for anyone new coming in and also the rights and extra hardware costs. not attractive to business and niche products to get going

 

[amar212]

Also hope the next consoles sort out the HID/XID mess. It's a niche thing so we don't need that rubbish exclusive nonsense that MS bring dividing the market.

You can only hope, because it will not happen.

Microsoft is staying strong with Xinput (XID), it has already be found within Durango's Development libraries and it is proprietary standard of Microsoft company that covers all Metro and Metro-like devices from 2012 onwards with Xinput 1.4 version (you can find plethora of info related to both HID/XID there if you understand the tech, I strongly recommend reading in that case) 👍

As elaborated by LogiForce (post #7557), NextBox will probably use the same input system as the Xbox360 - Xinput (XID) instead of HID like PC and PS consoles are using.

So, Microsoft is continuing its agenda of locking hardware for advanced FF devices and more advanced FFB libraries. Also, no parallel "wheel & controller" will almost certainly remain reality (one controller per profile policy) as well as limited number of buttons on devices (Xinput limitations).

NextBox (Durango) is again a 100% XID device, again the countersteer FFB will be non-existent, again we will suffer the inability to use PhotoMode/Livery Editor during on-wheel sessions and again they will sacrifice potential sensation for the one whole genre on their platform in order to make money from hardware-royalties.

*thanx to Paskowitz for the tips on this matter in the original post

 

[G.T.Ace]

Oh Microsoft, when will you ever learn.

 

[oqvist]

What is the real benefit of XID anyway? Is it just to make life harder to hack the console or is there actually some pro of that interface over the HID besides security?

 

[napalmhardcore]

Really needs some innovation, better structure at varying price level from a smaller company with a more savvy approach. I think all exisiting wheel manufactures miss the mark or have issues like Fanatec.

The problem is that a small company cannot afford to offer a quality product at a low price. It is mass production that allows companies to drop the price as their materials are bought in bulk, otherwise they would not be making enough money to pay their workers. Also if word got out tomorrow that there is a smaller company and they offer good wheels at a variety of different prices everyone would want one. They would not be able to keep up with demand so would get a reputation for their wheels taking a long time to ship. Also due to increased demand they would be rushing to get them out the door which is where quality issues occur. If demand remains high they have to employ more people so sooner or later they will become another large company with all the problems inherent of a large company.

 

[Mayaman]

What is the real benefit of XID anyway? Is it just to make life harder to hack the console or is there actually some pro of that interface over the HID besides security?

I too would like to know this.

 

[LogiForce]

What is the real benefit of XID anyway? Is it just to make life harder to hack the console or is there actually some pro of that interface over the HID besides security?

Read the comments of Famine and Fanatec (Thomas) here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125840

 

[ibuycheap]

NextBox (Durango) is again a 100% XID device, again the countersteer FFB will be non-existent, again we will suffer the inability to use PhotoMode/Livery Editor during on-wheel sessions and again they will sacrifice potential sensation for the one whole genre on their platform in order to make money from hardware-royalties.

*thanx to Paskowitz for the tips on this matter in the original post

Do you have any evidence that XID is the problem. If GT5 was the only indicator of the limits of Immersion's HID based FFB then I would say it has no capability of simulating slip angle. But obviously on the PC side that's not the case.

With XID the only one actually using it is Turn 10 and Playground Games and they are getting better at it so it is hard to say it has reached its peak. The question is are they just getting better at working with less.

 

[drivatar]

With XID the only one actually using it is Turn 10 and Playground Games and they are getting better at it so it is hard to say it has reached its peak. The question is are they just getting better at working with less.

Every game on Xbox360 has to use XInput.

 

[LogiForce]

Every game on Xbox360 has to use XInput.

But only a few use the force feedback features. Most only use the rumble feedback as they only support the gamepad.

Please keep in mind that the rumble in your gamepad is not the same as force feedback. They are driven differently.

 

[ibuycheap]

Every game on Xbox360 has to use XInput.

Obviously, Let's put it this way. Does Infinity Ward use the hardware of the ps3 to the same extent as Naughty Dog.

 

[napalmhardcore]

Cough cough off topic cough. Wow this is quite some cough I've got, it has a side effect of tourette's syndrome.

 

[ItsHim]

Read the comments of Famine and Fanatec (Thomas) here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125840

According to Logitech's own forums, a semi-official post stated that Logitech looked into having a product licensed but seemingly couldn't agree with MS about the fees and/or the whole licensing process. It was also hinted that other manufacturers found another strategy to make their wheels work, but Logitech wasn't willing to go down that road.

I had the MS wheel for a day, sent it back because it was nothing more than a toy. Not even up to the DFGT. Not by a long stretch. The pedals kill my feet.

 

[mrbasher]

Well, Logitech could always agree to pay the licensing, sell a ton of wheels to Xbox owners and then never pay...

This is sarcasm btw...

 

[drivatar]

But only a few use the force feedback features. Most only use the rumble feedback as they only support the gamepad.

Are there many games that support force feedback on PS3 but don't on Xbox360?

 

[chromatic9]

Thanks for the info Amar212. Thats really upsetting, oh well.

The problem is that a small company cannot afford to offer a quality product at a low price. It is mass production that allows companies to drop the price as their materials are bought in bulk, otherwise they would not be making enough money to pay their workers. Also if word got out tomorrow that there is a smaller company and they offer good wheels at a variety of different prices everyone would want one. They would not be able to keep up with demand so would get a reputation for their wheels taking a long time to ship. Also due to increased demand they would be rushing to get them out the door which is where quality issues occur. If demand remains high they have to employ more people so sooner or later they will become another large company with all the problems inherent of a large company.

These are general problems which any company can fail or exceed at.

 

[ussr]

PS4 is on the long way to our houses and flats. And since GT6 might be launch title if not then for sure it will arrive on ps4 one day.

Does Logitech wheels will not be compatible with play-station 4? What to think about all that situation?

 

[TextRich]

Does Logitech wheels will not be compatible with play-station 4? What to think about all that situation?

I'm pretty sure PS4 will use USB, which is what higher-end wheels use. It is up to the games themselves to be programmed to be compatible with those wheels - it's not up to the wheel manufacturers or Sony. I'm not too worried about my G27 not being compatible with GT6.

 

[tezster]

Even if no new Logitech wheels are manufactured or sold going forward, there's such a huge existing base of people using Logitech wheels now that I don't think PD will have any choice but to include support for these wheels on GT6.

 

[bermudakid]

^ Like they did for the G25 & G27 at launch......