Logitech Reveals G923 Wheel for PlayStation and Xbox
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 180 comments
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- 1,281
- CENLA
- SoCaLLbeer
Was hoping the new model would at least be...
interesting.
interesting.
- 13,283
- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
Disappointed that its effectively just a facelifted G29. I'm better off sticking with my current wheel and getting better pedals for when I eventually start doing racing leagues on PC.
I read many comments saying " It is the copy of G29 ". First of all, Logitech was very smart to make the external body similar or same if you prefer, to G29, because looks friendly and quality of materials is good, they sold a lot of G27 many years ago, and a lot of G29 4-5 years ago. The most important thing in a racing wheel is the motor inside it, and reading the review and watching the first pictures seems that they made a great and good change by upgrading and increasing the FBB performance. That's what we need, a great response of FBB is what we really need. Maybe the price is a little bit high, but I am sure that during black Friday or later ( Christmas ) the price will go down. Don't forget for example that Thrustmaster T300 GT Edition ( good wheel ) costs 360-370 Euros in Europe. A little concern is about the games compatibily ( PS4 games ) I read ACC and GT sport will be already ok, F1 2020 and Dirt serie in September, but I did not see anything about project cars 3, ready for the market in the next weeks and NFS Heat, compatible with all wheels.
It's safe to say that EA will not be performing any further updates to NFS Heat, but they have the G923 and we know they're working on a new NFS, so let's see what the future brings (the G923 does work in legacy mode in NFS Heat though). Re: Project Cars 3, every Codemasters studio has the G923 and that includes Slightly Mad. Nothing to announce today though.
- 125
- Denmark
That's the problem, they didn't increase or upgraded force feedback.Thes just made a buzzword, trueforce. Its the same **** as my ancient G27.
Are you really comparing t300 rs gt with g29/g923? Logitech feels like a toy compared to t300 rs gt,and now the price is the same. Its a 15years old tech and now its even 100$ more expensive than g29. What a disappointment..
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@Klik The force feedback is upgraded though, thanks to the new electronic engineering solution: implementing a closed loop system for better linearity, new processor to handle the Trueforce algorithm, new motor drivers operating at 4000Hz and providing that direct link to the games' physics and audio systems. Once you try it, there would be no confusion between G923 and G27/G29.
- 3,090
- Port of Spain
- davidtsmith333
Looks interesting actually. A couple questions:
1. About the "Trueforce"....Since only a few racing games at the moment are compatible with it, what happens to the other popular racing games who have not yet have it implemented? Would they be able to implement via patches or not?
2. Is the wheel rim detachable/changeable or still a one-piece base and wheel?
3. The Pedals. Are they still potentiometer driven?
.....If so I'm no longer in purchasing potentiometer driven pedals anymore. Hall sensor for me.
1. About the "Trueforce"....Since only a few racing games at the moment are compatible with it, what happens to the other popular racing games who have not yet have it implemented? Would they be able to implement via patches or not?
2. Is the wheel rim detachable/changeable or still a one-piece base and wheel?
3. The Pedals. Are they still potentiometer driven?
.....If so I'm no longer in purchasing potentiometer driven pedals anymore. Hall sensor for me.
@davidt33
1. It's completely up to the developer if they want to enable support, but yes they can add support via a patch. If a game doesn't support Trueforce then the wheel will still work in legacy mode, albeit with an improved response because of that aforementioned closed loop electronics.
2. The rim is not detachable.
3. Potentiometer.
1. It's completely up to the developer if they want to enable support, but yes they can add support via a patch. If a game doesn't support Trueforce then the wheel will still work in legacy mode, albeit with an improved response because of that aforementioned closed loop electronics.
2. The rim is not detachable.
3. Potentiometer.
- 125
- Denmark
How can you even be like this, i know you work for Logitech but then at least don't talk like we're idiots.
This is a marketing bull***** for 2 reasons. Its archaic Logitech wheel construction can't massively benefit from the advantages of new protocol. Games usually don't calculate physics at 4000Hz rate as it is very CPU intensive.
Also something features in trueforce are crap. Instead of wheel telling you what car does(pulling left and right), we get some rumble effect.. Yeah ok
Its a 15year old tech and its overpriced. And this's what it is.
Why spend more money actually engineering a better product when you can spend 1/10 as much to put a new marketing spin on a 15yo product?
Those paid reviewers on youtube are too cringy..
Honestly it's just hilarious..
"I had an opportunity to test the G923 and its TrueForce system in a pre-release version of GRID ahead of today’s announcement. I am not a racing professional, but even I could tell the difference between the basic force feedback systems available in other wheels and the new TrueForce engine"
what basic force feedback systems? a belt drive? Give me a break, helical gearing is not as good as the belts in Thrustmasters or in Fanatecs, they're notchy. The G29 is a good wheel when bundled at the $250-300 pricemark.. but $399 thats got to be a joke for a refreshed 15 year old product that sounds like a German Blitzkrieg when it runs over rumble strips.
- 114
- United States
- KoldStrejke
Like Karl Pilkington says, I call ********. in this day and age. these Wheels need to come with switches to select the console the users are playing on. or better yet" Plug N Play" internals. I call ******** Logitech, ********.
@Klik It's not available to competitors, no, but that does not therefore mean that it won't have widespread support - we're talking to every sim developer about this and you'll see plenty more titles coming online in the near future and from now on. Logitech has the longest history of support with game developers of all the wheel makes and this is the start of something new.
Your opinion might be that the construction is archaic but the reality is that the benefit of Trueforce does come through and makes that mechanism feel even better. That point is worth reinforcing because it's not just about the vibrotactile effects, the kinesthetic forces are also massively improved in nuance and responsiveness.
The games don't need to calculate their physics at 4000Hz. We're still limited on the host communications to 1000Hz anyway, but that's not the point. The Trueforce SDK allows the developer to send a buffer of FFB effects whilst their game loop gets on with other work. The 4000Hz loop allows us to have that level of control over the motors so we can replicate the main forces and the vibrotactile effects with great fidelity so we miss nothing that the game engine sends us.
Your opinion might be that the construction is archaic but the reality is that the benefit of Trueforce does come through and makes that mechanism feel even better. That point is worth reinforcing because it's not just about the vibrotactile effects, the kinesthetic forces are also massively improved in nuance and responsiveness.
The games don't need to calculate their physics at 4000Hz. We're still limited on the host communications to 1000Hz anyway, but that's not the point. The Trueforce SDK allows the developer to send a buffer of FFB effects whilst their game loop gets on with other work. The 4000Hz loop allows us to have that level of control over the motors so we can replicate the main forces and the vibrotactile effects with great fidelity so we miss nothing that the game engine sends us.
- 762
- Houston
- oskierox
I gotta say, if you are still a Logitech owner after all these years, and haven't at least moved up into Thrustmaster, you're doing simracing wrong in my opinion. If you have had a G27 for all these years (or God forbid you "upgraded" to a G29), Logitech is stealing money from you guys. This is a joke of an upgrade
- 1,336
- New York
Putting a piezo speaker(?) in the unit to play the engine audio as a way to simulate cockpit vibrations is not “upgraded”. And no matter how high the FFB sample frequency is touted to be it’s still going through an inherently flawed gear drive system that will always have slop and inaccuracy because of gear lash. Unless what you’re actually trying to simulate is a car with worn ball joints.
Honestly pretty disappointed by this announcement. The actual build quality of Logitech’s products are much superior to the Thrustmaster offerings (had a G29 and moved to a T300 which has suffered 3 failed potentiometers in less than a year), so I was really hoping that this would instead be a move by Logi into the mid to higher end range of products to compete with the T-GT and Fanatec offerings. Instead it’s just the same old thing with a coat of paint and extra $150 on the price tag.
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@Granadier There is no piezo speaker (or any kind of speaker at all) in the wheel base. Everything is produced using the FFB motors.
- 1,336
- New York
Sorry, I should've included a "?" there because I of course don't know exactly what the internals are like yet and so guessed what was used. What I'm referring to though is the fact that engine audio can be picked up through this new "Trueforce" system which indicates that what Logi is doing is using that audio feed as the frequency playback (through whatever actual means is used) to try and simulate engine vibrations you'd feel through the steering wheel.
I do really appreciate that you are in here talking with the community about this new release though. I'm just a passionate fan and disappointed about this newest offering since like I mentioned above, I was really hoping that Logitech would step up into the mid-to-high end range of sim equipment offerings.
Yes, that's the vibrotactile effects I was referring to in my other post. Clarification:
Kinesthetic = low frequency spring forces that we're all used to on force feedback wheels
Vibrotactile = higher frequency forces that you feel through the sense of touch (or hear, as you get higher up the frequencies)
As I pointed out in that post, it's not just the Vibrotactile aspect that is added here; the Kinesthetic forces get a huge boost in fidelity and nuance because of that direct (and fast) link to the physics engine.
Kinesthetic = low frequency spring forces that we're all used to on force feedback wheels
Vibrotactile = higher frequency forces that you feel through the sense of touch (or hear, as you get higher up the frequencies)
As I pointed out in that post, it's not just the Vibrotactile aspect that is added here; the Kinesthetic forces get a huge boost in fidelity and nuance because of that direct (and fast) link to the physics engine.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
- 1,336
- New York
And what I'm referring to is that the gear drive system is inherently flawed and reduces the effectiveness of those FFB improvements because of the slop introduced from gear lash. Has this been improved at all with the G923 over the G29?
Also on the topic of improvements, the release mentions that the brake is progressive now. Does this mean that the rubber bumper that was in previous pedal sets has been replaced with a progressive compression-rate spring similar to what GTEye created? And if so I'm assuming the firmware is changed to support that instead of the harsh non-linear curve of the G29 pedals where a good amount of brake input was reserved for the last 10% or so of travel.
- 1,913
- valencia
- Donnced
Ohhhh look , you Logitech guys yust used the G25/27/29 helicoidal FFB motor with the "Trueforce" that uses the sound of the game to add vibrating ...
A copy of the Thrustmaster T-GT system.
T-DBF:
Years of collaboration with Polyphony Digital have resulted in the creation of in-depth sensations in the steering column. Combining the brushless motor's refined Force Feedback with this Depth Feedback creates a realistic 3D perception of the environment.
Adding suspension and vibration effects via the steering column gives drivers more information with which to analyze and experience a car's behavior and physics, and therefore anticipate and instantly react to track conditions
An G29 with sound based vibrations.... yeah! Sure the 200 bucks difference worth...
Please, upgrade to belt system as Fanatec & Thrustmaster, improve your pedals... adding more bits of resolution, make throttle pedal lineal,and offer brake cell as others already does. add also 1080 degrees of rotation and bring back the option to change rotation directly on the wheel as it was on the G27.
Than we can talk about a real improvement worthy 400-500 bucks
- 171
- Brazil
Would a port to adapt a handbrake be too much to ask? Another missed opportunity..
- 14
- United Kingdom
Don’t is the answer.
Get the csl elite.
Get the csl elite.
Yes, that greater level of control over the motors allows a developer to reduce the FFB deadzone when a game supports Trueforce. And yes, the rubber in the brake is gone, replaced by a progressive spring. You have the full movement of the brake pedal but you still get that build up of force as you press it further.
- 3,090
- Port of Spain
- davidtsmith333
That's all well and good but don't you think it's about time Logitech had their wheels detachable instead of the all-in-one joined to the base? The advantage would be that one could swap in/out wheel and base in case either goes bad or to upgrade. C'mon now, Logitech has been in the business long enough...longer than most even.
Another thing is the potentiometer driven pedals which are so finicky. About time to go hall sensors which are much better and more durable.
If you would do those two in a future offering it would go a long way to keep up with competitors and gain market share.
Edit: Forgot about gear driven vs belt driven. Belt driven would be much better for the base also.
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