Looking at new cars

[Saidur_Ali]

Thanks for this. I'll take a look at the Mini shortly.

Finally got around to running some quotes tonight and here were the results:

2014 BMW 1 Series 116i Sport: £1200
2015 Ford Fiesta ST-2 1.6: £1800 with telematics, £2200 without
2014 Mercedes A Class A180 Sport: £1000 with telematics, £1200 without
2015 Mini Cooper S 2.0: £1500 with telematics, £1800 without
2012 Toyota GT86: £1500 with telematics, £1800 without
Audi A3 TDI 1.6: £1100 with telematics, £1200 without

Another option for Mini is the 1.5 Cooper which has got the B38 engine, might be cheaper to insure.

The insurance prices seem quite reasonable. Do you know how much something like the Leon 1.4 TSI 150 will be? Possible to get one for under £10,000 with sat nav and xenons: Link

I wouldn't recommend getting the 1.6 TDI engine, IIRC they have costly EGR issues. Renault diesels are much more reliable, even Mercedes use them. Good news, Dacia Sandero uses Renault engines.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Thanks for this. I'll take a look at the Mini shortly.

Finally got around to running some quotes tonight and here were the results:

2014 BMW 1 Series 116i Sport: £1200
2015 Ford Fiesta ST-2 1.6: £1800 with telematics, £2200 without
2014 Mercedes A Class A180 Sport: £1000 with telematics, £1200 without
2015 Mini Cooper S 2.0: £1500 with telematics, £1800 without
2012 Toyota GT86: £1500 with telematics, £1800 without
Audi A3 TDI 1.6: £1100 with telematics, £1200 without

Those seem somewhat reasonable to me, though I don't know what you're willing to spend on insurance. Personally, I'd never get a telematics policy because I know it would have an adverse affect on my insurance. If £1800 for the Mini or Toyota is too much then my choice would be the Bimmer; I'm surprised that the Fiesta ST costs more to insure than the GT86 but then I suppose it's a faster car and appeals to a younger audience.

 

[Tom]

Another option for Mini is the 1.5 Cooper which has got the B38 engine, might be cheaper to insure.

The insurance prices seem quite reasonable. Do you know how much something like the Leon 1.4 TSI 150 will be? Possible to get one for under £10,000 with sat nav and xenons: Link

I wouldn't recommend getting the 1.6 TDI engine, IIRC they have costly EGR issues. Renault diesels are much more reliable, even Mercedes use them. Good news, Dacia Sandero uses Renault engines.

I'll take a look at that. Ran a quote on the Leon and it came back as £820 with telematics and around £1000 without. I'm sure it drives very nicely, but aesthetically it doesn't appeal to me.

 

[Famine]

The insurance prices seem quite reasonable.

I know I'm old, but when I get an insurance quote for £600 for an Audi R8 V10 Plus, I don't regard £2k for a three year old Fiesta as reasonable...

What's your insurance budget in this, @Tom?

 

[Tom]

I know I'm old, but when I get an insurance quote for £600 for an Audi R8 V10 Plus, I don't regard £2k for a three year old Fiesta as reasonable...

What's your insurance budget in this, @Tom?

As close to £1000 as possible, which does admittedly limit my options somewhat. I'd be willing to go to £1500 at a push.

 

[Clark]

To give you an idea of what prices are still like, I’ve just had to pay £920 for my 3 series.

 

[Famine]

As close to £1000 as possible, which does admittedly limit my options somewhat.

Hmm.

What's more important to you: long distance comfort; performance; running costs; or size?

 

[Tom]

Hmm.

What's more important to you: long distance comfort; performance; running costs; or size?

It's difficult to say what sort of long-distance mileage I'll be doing next year as it's early days, but that is always a good thing to have. Running costs aren't too much of an issue, likewise size. Performance is also important too being 21 and full of testosterone!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I'll take a look at that. Ran a quote on the Leon and it came back as £820 with telematics and around £1000 without. I'm sure it drives very nicely, but aesthetically it doesn't appeal to me.

That's good news then you can get something of decent performance within your insurance budget. What do you think to the Polo GT which has same engine? That might be similarly cheap to insure and maybe the GTI with the 1.8 TSI could be an option depending on insurance. Got to beat the Bravo at least in terms of performance if still looking for a hot hatch? Did that cost a lot to insure when you were younger?

I know I'm old, but when I get an insurance quote for £600 for an Audi R8 V10 Plus, I don't regard £2k for a three year old Fiesta as reasonable...

What's your insurance budget in this, @Tom?

I had a quick look back at my old emails just for the lols, I got quoted for a Clio RS about £6K and for a BMW 320, over £8K.

Nowadays much more reasonable due to being older and having NCB, Cooper S is only about £400 and M235i which I changed to is about £680 but something like the R8 V10 Plus is over £3K for me.

Reasonable in context as for young driver with limited NCB, most car insurance quotes should be really high even for a slow car let alone a hot hatch.

 

[Tom]

That's good news then you can get something of decent performance within your insurance budget. What do you think to the Polo GT which has same engine? That might be similarly cheap to insure and maybe the GTI with the 1.8 TSI could be an option depending on insurance. Got to beat the Bravo at least in terms of performance if still looking for a hot hatch? Did that cost a lot to insure when you were younger?

Polo GT and GTI look nice - will run quotes on both later to get a ballpark figure. The Bravo was pretty poor in terms of drivability: vague and light steering, unimpressive gearbox etc. To insure I think it was around £1600 for the year, but I'd changed it over a couple of months into my existing policy so I can't be certain, but I'd say around that figure.

Update: Ran some quotes on the GT and the GTI and the former was £820 whilst the latter only £1200 - impressed! That said, I did actually change my profession from Journalist to Company Director, which might have something to do with it!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Polo GT and GTI look nice - will run quotes on both later to get a ballpark figure. The Bravo was pretty poor in terms of drivability: vague and light steering, unimpressive gearbox etc. To insure I think it was around £1600 for the year, but I'd changed it over a couple of months into my existing policy so I can't be certain, but I'd say around that figure.

Update: Ran some quotes on the GT and the GTI and the former was £820 whilst the latter only £1200 - impressed! That said, I did actually change my profession from Journalist to Company Director, which might have something to do with it!

Yep some Fiat cars can be a bit 🤬, that seems good price back then.

Now that's more like it, worth checking out with another car you have quoted before to see if it is just occupation or car. Then you know better if potentially more options are open to you in your budget.

Insurance can vary in strange ways, like reducing excess sometimes lowers the insurance, increasing value of car slightly can sometimes also reduce it and instead of parking in garage or driveway, often parking on the road or street makes it cheaper.

 

[Tom]

Yep some Fiat cars can be a bit 🤬, that seems good price back then.

Now that's more like it, worth checking out with another car you have quoted before to see if it is just occupation or car. Then you know better if potentially more options are open to you in your budget.

Insurance can vary in strange ways, like reducing excess sometimes lowers the insurance, increasing value of car slightly can sometimes also reduce it and instead of parking in garage or driveway, often parking on the road or street makes it cheaper.

I'll have to bear that in mind and definitely do some digging on that basis!

I've got to be honest, I really do like the look of the Polo GTI. From the reviews I've seen it's quick, well-equipped, and looks like it goes very well. @homeforsummer or @Famine, do you have any first-hand experience with one of these? Some input would be great.

 

[Kent]

Lots of cool cars have been mentioned but I'm going to be the wet blanket...

Having a limited budget, I'd seriously consider dropping the BMWs and all that stuff off the list. Start looking for stuff like Civics and Fiestas. You can find sporty models and have fun without needing to spend so much money on upkeep.

Good luck!

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Lots of cool cars have been mentioned but I'm going to be the wet blanket...

Having a limited budget, I'd seriously consider dropping the BMWs and all that stuff off the list. Start looking for stuff like Civics and Fiestas. You can find sporty models and have fun without needing to spend so much money on upkeep.

Good luck!

Thing is, in the UK the price difference between BMWs and Audis and more ordinary stuff like Fiestas and Hondas isn't that big. The Fiesta is cheap and fun enough that it still sells very well, but even normal C-segment hatchbacks like the Civic tend to lose out to premium offerings like the A Class, 1 Series, and A3. In 2017 Honda sold 41,000 Civics in Europe*, while BMW sold 137,000 1 Series, and that's pretty typical of what you see in the UK market. Stuff like the 3 Series, A4, and C Class vastly outsell cars like the Mondeo (Fusion) or Insignia as the much smaller price difference here means there's less reason to get the cheaper car.

*Not sure which countries that actually includes; the data is from carsalesbase.com

 

[Tom]

Lots of cool cars have been mentioned but I'm going to be the wet blanket...

Having a limited budget, I'd seriously consider dropping the BMWs and all that stuff off the list. Start looking for stuff like Civics and Fiestas. You can find sporty models and have fun without needing to spend so much money on upkeep.

Good luck!

Thank you for this, I appreciate it! However, I think what Beetlebrox said pretty much hit the nail on the head. Car culture in the UK is very strange and often you pick up something nice for a lot less than you think!

 

[Clark]

Most lower end ‘premium’ brand cars here like (like sub £35K list price) deprecate quite a lot and you can get very good newish cars for a lot less than new) You just have to be prepared that you won’t have a warranty and if you don’t do your homework and buy a reliable one or you don’t look after it it will cost you more to maintain it than something like a Fiesta.

I’d personally stay away from any petrol or diesel four cylinders as I’ve just read about far too many problems with them, I think the really new ones are better but that might just be because there’s less of them and they have had as much mileage on them yet.

 

[homeforsummer]

Been a while since I've driven the old Polo GTI @Tom and didn't spend too much time behind the wheel when I did. It didn't stand out against the stuff we tested it against (if I recall, an Audi S1, 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport, Fiesta ST, Cooper S and Corsa VXR) in terms of pure fun, but I don't doubt that as something to live with it's probably better than most of those. They look good, the interior is nice, and they're plenty quick enough.

And the 1.8 TSI mentioned is definitely the one to go for over the older 1.4 twincharged model, which the internet seems to think is a ticking time-bomb.

 

[Famine]

Been a while since I've driven the old Polo GTI @Tom and didn't spend too much time behind the wheel when I did. It didn't stand out against the stuff we tested it against (if I recall, an Audi S1, 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport, Fiesta ST, Cooper S and Corsa VXR) in terms of pure fun, but I don't doubt that as something to live with it's probably better than most of those. They look good, the interior is nice, and they're plenty quick enough.

I concur with all of this.

The Volkswagen interior is not hugely exciting, but it's made well and of nice things, and everything is where it should be and works. The VW infotainment is one of my favourites. I'm sure in a TLGP, it won't be a slouch either.

The Fiesta ST has quite a badly dated interior, and the navigation system in particular is not worth the circuit boards it's printed on. In addition to the earlier caveat about the ride pre-2016 (might be pre-mid-2015 actually).

I "like" the Mini Cooper S, but the most recent version annoys me in sport mode. Aside from the MAXIMUM GO KART FEEL message, which is still unnecessarily twee, I feel like the electronic PAS is set to be deliberately busy in that mode - it's always on the go and always reacting to something far more than is really required. My old MX-5 was a more cultured steer on the same back road, and that's saying something.

I don't remember much about the Corsa VXR, but I can say that after years of hating Corsas - particularly the gearbox - I didn't hate the "new" one at all. Whether that applies still to a year-old one or not after the first owner's had a go at it... well @Tom will probably find out sooner than I do if he tests one.

My favourite two in the class are the Clio 220 and the Peugeot Sport 208 (and I've reviewed both for GTP ). They both have the same mix of being as good to drive as anything else and as nice a place to be as anything else (although I suspect the VW might stay nicer for longer...). A lot of people are annoyed by the five-door, EDC auto only Clio, and they have a bit of a point but, day-to-day, I don't have an issue with it. I'd put the 208 above anything in the class though, particularly if it's the GTI by Peugeot Sport rather than the base GTI (there's some different suspension settings, including a wider track, and the Torsen LSD).

 

[homeforsummer]

The 208 is definitely the best in that class, though some things about it might become irritating during ownership. I quite like the Clio in top-end 220 Trophy form, but not sure what it's like as a used car, or in regular 200 form.

 

[Clark]

I’ve only been briefly in the back of a 208 so I might not have the full picture, but Is really tiny inside compared to other cars in the class?

 

[Tom]

I concur with all of this.

The Volkswagen interior is not hugely exciting, but it's made well and of nice things, and everything is where it should be and works. The VW infotainment is one of my favourites. I'm sure in a TLGP, it won't be a slouch either.

The Fiesta ST has quite a badly dated interior, and the navigation system in particular is not worth the circuit boards it's printed on. In addition to the earlier caveat about the ride pre-2016 (might be pre-mid-2015 actually).

I "like" the Mini Cooper S, but the most recent version annoys me in sport mode. Aside from the MAXIMUM GO KART FEEL message, which is still unnecessarily twee, I feel like the electronic PAS is set to be deliberately busy in that mode - it's always on the go and always reacting to something far more than is really required. My old MX-5 was a more cultured steer on the same back road, and that's saying something.

I don't remember much about the Corsa VXR, but I can say that after years of hating Corsas - particularly the gearbox - I didn't hate the "new" one at all. Whether that applies still to a year-old one or not after the first owner's had a go at it... well @Tom will probably find out sooner than I do if he tests one.

My favourite two in the class are the Clio 220 and the Peugeot Sport 208 (and I've reviewed both for GTP ). They both have the same mix of being as good to drive as anything else and as nice a place to be as anything else (although I suspect the VW might stay nicer for longer...). A lot of people are annoyed by the five-door, EDC auto only Clio, and they have a bit of a point but, day-to-day, I don't have an issue with it. I'd put the 208 above anything in the class though, particularly if it's the GTI by Peugeot Sport rather than the base GTI (there's some different suspension settings, including a wider track, and the Torsen LSD).

Good to know, thank you. The Polo is still my favourite based on looks and interior etc.

I agree about the Fiesta, I'm indifferent about the Cooper S, and I'm not a fan of Corsas mostly because of the image problem!

Regarding the 208, they do look very nice and the same has to be said for the Clio. However, it's build quality and reliability that I fear would put me off. Regarding the latter, I'm always disappointed by tactile things with Renaults, such as the feel of the buttons, plastics etc. My Father hates working on them too and given that he's the person I'd go to if anything went Pete Tong, I'm not entirely sure how he'd react!

 

[homeforsummer]

I’ve only been briefly in the back of a 208 so I might not have the full picture, but Is really tiny inside compared to other cars in the class?

Not especially so, though apart from the Clio and Polo (of cars discussed here), which seem marginally larger than the rest, most of the others seem a little small in the back. Fine for kids (the five-door versions particularly), not so good for adults.

Regarding reliability I don't think we've had anything notable with cars we've run, but that's with the caveat that we use them hard-ish for a year and then never see them again. Our 208 probably feels better now than it did when brand new (the engine and gearbox have freed up a lot) and doesn't seem to rattle or anything like that, though all the touchscreen stuff remains fairly irritating.

I'm not sure there's any great difference between the reliability of new cars any more. Looking at reliability scores in things like Auto Express' driver power survey it's far more jumbled than it used to be. In the old days, you'd get Japanese cars at the top, German in the middle and French/Italian at the bottom. Now you get a mix of Japanese stuff and Skodas at the top, and everything else generally mixed evenly throughout the rest of the list.

Superminis don't usually do as well overall (Yaris/Fabia aside), but I suspect that's because the average supermini driver (you all know the stereotype) probably isn't so hot on things like preventative maintenance, mechanical sympathy or generally caring for their cars. I'd be surprised if when it comes to the hotter stuff there's much of a difference between them all provided they're looked after correctly.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Opel Adam is appealing. Far from being the best choice for the given price, but it is chic, and will give you a dose of exclusivity.

No no no no no. It's a nurse's fleet car and most* privately owned ones are filled with very very old people.

This very morning I was looking at one with my Da while he waited for his horrid Corsa to be booked in and he (in his 70s) specifically requested to be shot if he ever got old enough to have one!

*I have zero data to back up this claim

 

[homeforsummer]

The Adam's not totally grim but beyond the styling and personalisation, which some will like and some won't, it hasn't got anything specifically going for it. The 1.4-litre "S" model is mildly entertaining but a bit expensive considering the stuff it's up against.

 

[Tom]

I won't be going for an Adam. Again, I think they look dreary and I've never been impressed driving one in the slightest. My girlfriend on the other hand, loves them...

 

[hasslemoff]

Alfa Guiletta, 170 - 150 MA, good Insurance group , enough power to have some fun, cheap 2nd hand prices.

Worth a look and a test drive.

 

[Tom]

Alfa Guiletta, 170 - 150 MA, good Insurance group , enough power to have some fun, cheap 2nd hand prices.

Worth a look and a test drive.

Based on the Bravo I had before underneath I believe and that chassis was pretty poor.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Based on the Bravo I had before underneath I believe and that chassis was pretty poor.

I've heard the chassis is actually quite good on the cloverleaf version so they're definitely worth a test drive.

 

[hasslemoff]

Based on the Bravo I had before underneath I believe and that chassis was pretty poor.

Don't think it is, you've been listening to Jeremy Clarkson .
The chassis is good.

 

[Famine]

Based on the Bravo I had before underneath I believe and that chassis was pretty poor.

Giulietta? It's the FIAT Compact platform, shared with the Cherokee. The platform succeeded the C-platform that was the Bravo, etc.

I quite like the Giulietta, but I found the clutch on the diesel cars to be exceptionally heavy, and I drove a Sport model last year which was too low for the ambulance-friendly speed bumps in our street...