Looking for alternatives to my "Plan"

[Dagger311]

I will suggest this as a first car until I get banned from posting it numerous times , but:

1996-2007 Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable-

You can easily pick one up in great condition for around $1500-4000. Despite what you may have read, these cars actually handle fairly well for what they are, especially with better tires. Power is adequate with the more common Vulcan V6, plentiful with the higher output but less common Duratec V6. These cars never came with a manual transmission, only a 4-speed automatic which is a bit on the fragile side, so pay close attention to how the transmission shifts if you decide to test drive one. Other trouble spots are the factory coolant tank in the 96-02's develops cracks in it after while; OEM replacements run about $60. Don't even bother with the cheap Chinese aftermarket tank which will more than likely fail in just a few months. Also, change the coolant in the Vulcan engine at no longer of an interval than every 2 years; it is infamous for rust in the cooling system which can lead to very bad things. Finally, watch out if the rear of the car is sagging, that means the struts/springs are shot and replacement is apparently very expensive. If anybody asks why I am a strong supporter of this car, I've been the proud owner of one for over eight years with little trouble. 👍 The only non-maintenance items I've had to change out were the fuel pump (very expensive , but I'm fairly confident the Motorcraft replacement unit is not made in China) and the mentioned coolant tank.

A very insightful post! I'll put it up there, with a link to your post.

 

[Slash]

Old cars can easily turn into money pits, whereas newer cars with simple features tend not to be money pits. Plus you will almost certain wreck your first car, it's far easier to repair a boring FWD sedan from the 90's or 00's than to repair something from the 70's. Newer cars are also way safer for when you do get into your wreck.

I here they can turn into money pits, but that's why you need to buy smart in the first place.

As far as repair, I disagree, and that's coming from someone who has worked on this exact car he is eyeballing, for a long time. I found it to be much easier to repair and work on compared to a modern FWD compact. Working on an 81 Camaro myself resulted in less cuss words and wrenches being thrown as well as cuts on my hands from having to stuff them in tight spaces. I don't really think there's much you can argue against this one. Crash it and you can straighten it out with a torch and some cheap fenders out of the junk yard. On a new car you might as well total it.

Wrecking it, there's a good chance, I won't disagree with that. Same with safety. That's a given. But I don't really think he is too concerned.

 

[Dagger311]

I'm not really comcerned with wrecking, I've got a bit of experience (not much) with a car of similar speed (2008 rogue) and it was really tame. Now I do understand these are RWD, which makes them much less so, but it's not very powerful, so I'll more than likely be Okay.

As for safety, it has seatbelts.

 

[Joey D]

I here they can turn into money pits, but that's why you need to buy smart in the first place.

As far as repair, I disagree, and that's coming from someone who has worked on this exact car he is eyeballing, for a long time. I found it to be much easier to repair and work on compared to a modern FWD compact. Working on an 81 Camaro myself resulted in less cuss words and wrenches being thrown as well as cuts on my hands from having to stuff them in tight spaces. I don't really think there's much you can argue against this one. Crash it and you can straighten it out with a torch and some cheap fenders out of the junk yard. On a new car you might as well total it.

Wrecking it, there's a good chance, I won't disagree with that. Same with safety. That's a given. But I don't really think he is too concerned.

I don't doubt it's easy to work on a car from 70's or early 80's, trying to track down the parts would be harder though than something from the 90's. Anytime I've ever needed anything for the Neon, I go to the local junkyard and there's always between 20-30 1st gens there in a wide range of colors (not Nitro Yellow Green though ) and body styles. I think at any given time there might be a handful of pre 1980 cars in any of the junkyards I've been too, and that's mostly in Metro Detroit, where these things were a dime a dozen.

I'm not really comcerned with wrecking, I've got a bit of experience (not much) with a car of similar speed (2008 rogue) and it was really tame. Now I do understan these are RWD, which makes them much less so, but it's not very powerful, so I'll more than likely be Okay.

As for safety, it has seatbelts.

Considering you only just got your permit and you're only 16, you don't have any experience. Sure you might understand the basics of driving a car, that's not that difficult, but to become a good driver it takes years and thousands of miles.

As for safety, sure it has seatbelts, but it also have 1970's engineering, which wasn't good. Modern cars have better material strengths, better selt belts, proper crumple zone, ABS, and even better suited things like suspension and brakes.

 

[Tornado]

You aren't nearly Mexican enough to drive that generation of Camaro.




But seriously, just buy a Panther. It fits every one of these:

Gas mileage is not a problem.
V8 = awesome.
Parts are still stocked in major auto stores (which I live near plenty of).
Reliable (from what I've read).
Easier to work on than a modern car.
Easy to mod/customize.
There are back seats, for If I have more than one passenger, but that's not likely.
Even ones in exceptional condition can go for under ten grand.

Except they just stopped making it, it will be much more reliable, it won't be any slower and it will be a lot safer/cheaper to fix when you hit things with it.

 

[Dagger311]

Considering you only just got your permit and you're only 16, you don't have any experience. Sure you might understand the basics of driving a car, that's not that difficult, but to become a good driver it takes years and thousands of miles.

As for safety, sure it has seatbelts, but it also have 1970's engineering, which wasn't good. Modern cars have better material strengths, better selt belts, proper crumple zone, ABS, and even better suited things like suspension and brakes.

And I want to learn in a reliable, dependable, yet slightly sporty car that I can work on. I want to be the one fixing stuff on it, and you can't do that when you have 50 small computers that each require a bigger, much more expensive computer to work on.

It was good enough for 78, roads haven't changed much. Me buying some fwd compact may be safer, but I'm not terribly concerned with it. Every time you get into a car, you risk a fatal crash. Nothing's ever truly 100 percent safe, so why not enjoy it? That'd be like me never leaving home for fear of the gangs that hang around here.

 

[Dagger311]

You aren't nearly Mexican enough to drive that generation of Camaro.




But seriously, just buy a Panther. It fits every one of these:


Except they just stopped making it, it will be much more reliable, it won't be any slower and it will be a lot safer/cheaper to fix when you hit things with it.

What's a panther? Never heard of it to my knowledge...

 

[Dagger311]

You aren't nearly Mexican enough to drive that generation of Camaro.




But seriously, just buy a Panther. It fits every one of these:


Except they just stopped making it, it will be much more reliable, it won't be any slower and it will be a lot safer/cheaper to fix when you hit things with it.

What's a panther? Never heard of it to my knowledge...

 

[Tornado]

A Crown Victoria/Town Car/Grand Marquis.

 

[Dagger311]

A Crown Victoria/Town Car/Grand Marquis.

Ah. Always cared for crown vics. I'll put it up there tomorrow, I'm tired.

 

[Joey D]

And I want to learn in a reliable, dependable, yet slightly sporty car that I can work on. I want to be the one fixing stuff on it, and you can't do that when you have 50 small computers that each require a bigger, much more expensive computer to work on.

I've never once had to use a computer to fix anyone of my cars, even my 2011 and 2012 cars don't require computers. If you get a mid 90's to mid 00's sporty compact they will be easy to work on and really easy to find parts for. You can still do everything in your garage if you want assuming you have the tools. Hell, I can take apart my Neon with a standard socket set, a hammer, a pry bar, and some screwdrivers.

It was good enough for 78, roads haven't changed much. Me buying some fwd compact may be safer, but I'm not terribly concerned with it. Every time you get into a car, you risk a fatal crash. Nothing's ever truly 100 percent safe, so why not enjoy it? That'd be like me never leaving home for fear of the gangs that hang around here.

Roads have vastly changed since 1978, mainly there are more vehicles on the road with a higher speed limit.

I'm not saying you should be afraid of driving, what I am saying is that statistically you will stuff your first car and when you do a car with better safety features will prevent you from being hurt or killed. There's a reason why motor vehicle accidents are either the number 1 or 2 cause of death among teens.

 

[Dagger311]

I've never once had to use a computer to fix anyone of my cars, even my 2011 and 2012 cars don't require computers. If you get a mid 90's to mid 00's sporty compact they will be easy to work on and really easy to find parts for. You can still do everything in your garage if you want assuming you have the tools. Hell, I can take apart my Neon with a standard socket set, a hammer, a pry bar, and some screwdrivers.



Roads have vastly changed since 1978, mainly there are more vehicles on the road with a higher speed limit.

I'm not saying you should be afraid of driving, what I am saying is that statistically you will stuff your first car and when you do a car with better safety features will prevent you from being hurt or killed. There's a reason why motor vehicle accidents are either the number 1 or 2 cause of death among teens.

And I completely understand your point. A safer car could be the smarter choice, but it's also going to end up being more expensive, because I'm going to want to move up. This, being an older car, would be much easier for me to do that with.

 

[Slash]

@Joey D

There's no denying that, about the junkyards thing. That's for sure.

Don't quote me on this, but I think body panels are starting to get repro'd for this gen Camaro. Not sure on that though.

 

[Tornado]

If they are I doubt it would be for the final years.

 

[Slash]

I know the first gen has entire shells for it, kind of like the Mustang. The first face of the second gen has some stuff for it, though not sure what facelift has the best support.

As I'm looking now, Jegs has an entire slew of reproduction body parts for the second gens cars, including this 3rd facelift. This includes fenders and quater panels as well as doors.

 

[Dagger311]

I know the first gen has entire shells for it, kind of like the Mustang. The first face of the second gen has some stuff for it, though not sure what facelift has the best support.

As I'm looking now, Jegs has an entire slew of reproduction body parts for the second gens cars, including this 3rd facelift. This includes fenders and quater panels as well as doors.

Another plus for the camaro then.

 

[Xilor]

There are plenty of newer, modern cars that are just as easy and inexpensive to work on as the Camaro, but have proper safety equipment like airbags, ABS, etc.

An early 2000s Police Interceptor would be a good choice, or you could always look at late 90s/early 2000s Mustangs/Camaros/Firebirds.

 

[Tornado]

Another plus for the camaro then.

You can't afford to fix what you'll break as a new driver with reproduction body panels intended for restoration purposes.

 

[Dagger311]

You can't afford to fix what you'll break as a new driver with reproduction body panels intended for restoration purposes.

Oh, not for every repair. If it were to be totaled, at least I'd be able to find body panels for it.

 

[homeforsummer]

I've never once had to use a computer to fix anyone of my cars, even my 2011 and 2012 cars don't require computers.

Never had an electrical/ECU problem in any of my cars either. Had to replace lots of mechanical parts, though.

I know modern cars do get electrical glitches occasionally, but a well looked-after car won't prove that problematic in the same it won't prove problematic mechanically.

Worrying about computers going wrong is just one of those things people do when they've got their head under the hood for the eighteenth time fixing points or re-jetting a carb. If I were to go out on a limb, I'd say that EFI alone is probably responsible for more cars starting first time each morning without a problem than any other gadget in automotive history.

All that said, if the OP wants to buy a Camaro then fair play to him. The main reason for suggesting people get something else in these sort of situations is because they'll spin off the road at some point in a fit of excess power, but the 305 mentioned was making 140 horses new and is probably no more powerful than the Miata now, so it doesn't strike me as being particularly risky. Gonna hurt physically and financially if he bins it, but that's just added incentive to drive a bit more carefully.

 

[Dagger311]

Never had an electrical/ECU problem in any of my cars either. Had to replace lots of mechanical parts, though.

I know modern cars do get electrical glitches occasionally, but a well looked-after car won't prove that problematic in the same it won't prove problematic mechanically.

Worrying about computers going wrong is just one of those things people do when they've got their head under the hood for the eighteenth time fixing points or re-jetting a carb. If I were to go out on a limb, I'd say that EFI alone is probably responsible for more cars starting first time each morning without a problem than any other gadget in automotive history.

All that said, if the OP wants to buy a Camaro then fair play to him. The main reason for suggesting people get something else in these sort of situations is because they'll spin off the road at some point in a fit of excess power, but the 305 mentioned was making 140 horses new and is probably no more powerful than the Miata now, so it doesn't strike me as being particularly risky. Gonna hurt physically and financially if he bins it, but that's just added incentive to drive a bit more carefully.

Exactly. Like @Slash said, it'd be different if I were looking at a 440 Cuda or a brand new corvette. I'm looking at an inexpensive but fun car, from my favorite company, that I can make into a really nice cruiser as I develop the want/need for more power.

Oh yeah, and adding the crown vic interceptor, it's been recommended twice now.

 

[Harry6784]

Some more suggestions:

1998-2002 F-Body

Gas mileage is not a problem. - Good
V8 = awesome. - FULLY AGREE
Parts are still stocked in major auto stores (which I live near plenty of). - LOTS of parts around
Reliable (from what I've read). - Correct
Easier to work on than a modern car. - Meh, easy but you need small arms
Easy to mod/customize. - ABSOLUTELY. Aftermarket is huge for these cars
There are back seats, for If I have more than one passenger, but that's not likely. - 2+2 Coupe
Even ones in exceptional condition can go for under ten grand. - For 10k you can get a clean Camaro under 50k miles. Firebirds are usually 1-2k more all things being equal

1994 - 2004 Ford SN-95

Gas mileage is not a problem. - Good
V8 = awesome. - FULLY AGREE
Parts are still stocked in major auto stores (which I live near plenty of). - Correct
Reliable (from what I've read). - Correct
Easier to work on than a modern car. - Very easy to work on
Easy to mod/customize. - ABSOLUTELY. Aftermarket is huge for these cars
There are back seats, for If I have more than one passenger, but that's not likely. - 2+2 Coupe
Even ones in exceptional condition can go for under ten grand. - For 10k you can get a very nice Mustang GT, maybe even a Cobra if you look hard enough. Definitely in your budget

 

[Xilor]

Or you could look at a late 3rd gen. Camaro

This would be a good compromise between the newer models that you seem to dislike because of the styling/computers, and the older ones that could be very expensive to maintain and repair.

 

[Dagger311]

Some more suggestions:

1998-2002 F-Body

1994 - 2004 Ford SN-95

Both of those are very nice, I'll list them both up there with a link to here.

Or you could look at a late 3rd gen. Camaro

This would be a good compromise between the newer models that you seem to dislike because of the styling/computers, and the older ones that could be very expensive to maintain and repair.

Wow... That looks shockingly similar to the later second gens. I mean, there's several major differences, but not too bad. My only worry is insurance possibly being higher on this, being more modern (same for the other two).

 

[Slash]

He looked into a 3rd gen Camaro and Fox Mustangs but ultimately settled with the second gen Camaro.

He's really thought this through.

 

[Dagger311]

He looked into a 3rd gen Camaro and Fox Mustangs but ultimately settled with the second gen Camaro.

He's really thought this through.

That I did 👍. And he knows, too. I probably asked a million questions .

 

[Slash]

Questions are good. That's how you learn.

 

[Dagger311]

Alright, plan has changed, gas is expected to go up to 5 bucks a gallon.

 

[Harry6784]

Alright, plan has changed, gas is expected to go up to 5 bucks a gallon.

In that case:

 

[Dagger311]

In that case:

If you knew how clumsy I am, you'd never reccomend that .